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It was an attempted coup. A stupid, not well thought out coup, but a coup none the less.
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Jan 5, 2022 04:56
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Gumball Gumption posted:Is the statement I keep going back to a fair one? The Trump supporters at 1/6 absolutely believed they were committing a coup. They also had a childish understanding of one and no viable way to take and hold power. Yes. But the Capitol stormers were never intending to carry out a people's revolution to overthrow the government and personally install themselves as rulers, and they weren't the only people taking actions on that day. They were invited and allowed in by people already in power who wanted to use them and the chaos they created to delay and throw the election certifications into doubt. And if the Trumpers actually manage to take some hostages and start demanding concessions, it's no skin off their back.
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Jan 5, 2022 04:58
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New HBO max documentary comes out in about 2 hours. https://www.hbo.com/documentaries/four-hours-at-the-capitol Edit: Correction. It came out back in October, but is now on HBO Max. I misunderstood how HBO releases stuff on their streaming service I guess. deoju fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Jan 5, 2022 |
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Jan 5, 2022 05:26
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VitalSigns posted:Republicans had no reason to coup 2020 and risk upending a status quo that benefits them now, they already got what they wanted from Trump, and thanks to the filibuster and their control of state governments they're going to be able to do legal coups in the future. McConnell and the Republicans plays the long game. Oh spot on, but they were happy to stoke the fires for political gain. They fertilized the ground. The Flynn and Bannon side of the Trump admin had to be the source of 'kill some democrats and declare martial law' plan. Different groups.
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Jan 5, 2022 05:35
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Gumball Gumption posted:Is the statement I keep going back to a fair one? The Trump supporters at 1/6 absolutely believed they were committing a coup. They also had a childish understanding of one and no viable way to take and hold power. Best I can figure yeah. They absolutely did want to cause a coup, but like you said didn't actually have a means to hold power. I think it's also fair to say at least some of them probably would have killed more than a few senators and representatives if they had gotten the chance, and that Trump (who also has a childish understanding of coups) was in support of what they were doing.
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Jan 5, 2022 12:31
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My Little Douche Coup BTW that HBO documentary is a pro watch E https://apnews.com/article/capitol-siege-joe-biden-arts-and-entertainment-donald-trump-03af7b4c7f0ee1a1c3bdb5dbf2728f84 A Quinnipiac poll found that 93% of Democrats considered it an attack on the government, but only 29% of Republicans agreed. In a recent CBS-YouGov poll, 85% of Democrats called the riot an “insurrection” while only 21% of GOP voters did. Republicans (56%) were more likely to explain the rioters as “defending freedom.” A poll by The Associated Press and NORC Center for Public Affairs Research found that about 4 in 10 Republicans recall the attack — in which five people died — as violent, while 9 in 10 Democrats do. “We keep using terms like post-factual, but it almost feels like there’s this national psychosis or amnesia about what happened a year ago,” says Charles Sykes, the former conservative Wisconsin radio host and founder of the website The Bulwark. “It’s not just that we’re two nations. It’s as if we live on two different reality planets when it comes to the memory of Jan. 6.” BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Jan 5, 2022 |
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Jan 5, 2022 12:37
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It's not just Jan 6. I remember when they polled Louisianans in 2010 and asked which president was responsible for the abysmal hurricane Katrina response and a plurality of Republican respondents blamed Barack Obama. This "mass psychosis" is just a reflection of how fascism, and the inherent denial of reality that comes with it, is an integral component of American conservatism and always has been. People acting shocked by it in 2022 are credulous morons.
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Jan 6, 2022 01:32
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If this hasn't been posted already, here's the status of most of the 1/6 cases a year later: https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/capitol-breach-cases Ctrl+f "sentenced" to see the full force of our justice system in effect.  Chansley got the most, the majority of the others got probation, a fine, jail time to be served on the weekends, and home confinement
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Jan 6, 2022 19:08
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:It's not just Jan 6. I remember when they polled Louisianans in 2010 and asked which president was responsible for the abysmal hurricane Katrina response and a plurality of Republican respondents blamed Barack Obama. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPfRGJRMbN8
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Jan 6, 2022 19:30
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Sodomy Hussein posted:I think it's worth noting that even most conservatives thought 1/6 was repulsive... At the time. I have very Trumpy in-laws who were revolted. This is supposed to be the party of law, order, and the common man, not cro-magnon hooligans killing cops. I think it's worth noting that your anecdote doesn't match up with reality https://www.newsweek.com/over-half-republicans-believe-jan-6-capitol-rioters-were-protecting-democracy-poll-1664856
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Jan 6, 2022 19:43
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if you're not a democratic lawmaker seeking reelection being obsessed with 1/6 is extremely pathetic, I'm sorry. I've made this point before in this forum, but the panic behind the 1/6 coup or insurrection or whatever you want to call it is a masochistic obsession with being dominated. It's an apocalyptic fantasy in which you (the nice, comfortable, respectable, financially secure American) experiences the same oppression that the state inflicts on the poor and the victims of American imperial misadventure. "Fascism" didn't come from Trump. We weren't saved from "fascism" because the "coup" failed or Trump didn't get reelected. We're not at risk of a resurgent "fascism" if Trump gets elected again or a future 1/6 style coup succeeds. That all already exists -- whatever you want to define "fascism" as (which I don't think is actually fascism but I'll admit I'm being a little pedantic here), has been here and will be here regardless of what happened on 1/6 and whatever will happen in the midterms or the next presidential election. It is happening under Biden as it was Trump, and Obama, and Bush, etc. and it's not even going to slow down short of a sea change in the American political landscape. You're scared of (and titillated by) the state treating you (you! a real person!) like it does a homeless man living in LA, or a black kid growing up in Englewood, or an undocumented immigrant from South America, or someone living in Syria, or, or, or. None of that counts as fascism. It's only fascism when it happens to people like you. Well, it's never, ever, going to happen to the people who are anointed as global capital's necessary consumers (you), even if you're queer or got an abortion or have a foreign-sounding last name. The proud boys aren't going to come to your house and put a bullet through your head because you're bi -- that's what an Academi operative is going to do to a Syrian kid, which doesn't count as fascism because they're not like us. You'll be safe and secure no matter who is in power in America, unless you become poor (lose your job, get sick, get addicted, spend all your money on NFTs, take your pick) and then you will experience the sort of horror you're obsessing over, no matter who is in power in America. 1/6 should have been a radicalizing event because it exposed the incredible degree to which our institutions are meaningless, rotting facades. The only thing it did or will do is produce even more meaningless grist for the culture war mill and, I'm willing to bet, a lot of FBI "assets" judging by the light sentences everyone is getting. The reality is that a competent republican party could take power at any time they wanted: they already did in 2000 and things haven't gotten better since then. But then again a competent, or even superficially decorous, republican president would not have sparked any of the hysteria about "incipient fascism" that Trump did by being boorish and saying the quiet part out loud.
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Jan 6, 2022 19:43
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^^^^^great postIT BURNS posted:If this hasn't been posted already, here's the status of most of the 1/6 cases a year later: I would have expected harsher punishments for people that tried to 'DESTROY OUR DEMOCRACY' or whatever phrasing theyre using. All the hullabaloo about 1/6 is just a distraction from the multiple ongoing crises
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Jan 6, 2022 20:08
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https://twitter.com/cassiepmiller/status/1479162639636914178 Gotta hand it to Pelosi, she knows what her fans want
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Jan 6, 2022 20:16
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IT BURNS posted:If this hasn't been posted already, here's the status of most of the 1/6 cases a year later: Honestly, this is kind of the most shocking part of the whole affair. The riot itself was surprising, but what's more surprising is that they could walk into the capitol and basically go unpunished. It's a great depiction as to how ineffective and toothless our government has become when it can't even defend itself from an unarmed gang.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:20
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Honestly, this is kind of the most shocking part of the whole affair. The riot itself was surprising, but what's more surprising is that they could walk into the capitol and basically go unpunished. It's a great depiction as to how ineffective and toothless our government has become when it can't even defend itself from an unarmed gang. ... of right leaning people. They're perfectly capable of beating leftists into submission.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:24
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Tatsuta Age posted:I think it's worth noting that your anecdote doesn't match up with reality Furthermore https://twitter.com/databyler/status/1478751990096150528
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Jan 6, 2022 20:27
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Welp, this is where we're at, America... https://twitter.com/bensiegel/status/1479133345300852738 Great jorb.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:27
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I will never forget the feeling of my partner shaking me awake and telling me that teo taser prongs flew into a man's nuts until he died.
Sedisp fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 20:28
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Bel Shazar posted:... of right leaning people. They're perfectly capable of beating leftists into submission. Yeah if the crowd was anything other than white-as-a-sheet they no doubt would have had no problem defending against them.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:28
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Majorian posted:Welp, this is where we're at, America... Sickening. Starting a war based on a lie? Commendable and worthy of respect Inciting a bunch of fatsos w animal pelts to storm the Capitol? An atrocity comparable to 9/11 and Pearl Harbor
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Jan 6, 2022 20:30
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lil poopendorfer posted:Sickening. Starting a war based on a lie? Commendable and worthy of respect Also literally stealing the 2000 election, but in a polite decorous way that didn't cast aspersions on our institutions
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Jan 6, 2022 20:33
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Bel Shazar posted:... of right leaning people. They're perfectly capable of beating leftists into submission. Are they tho? Those BLM riots went on for weeks, even Chaz lasted much longer than it should have and used basically everything but live rounds to put it down. It seems like the state is rapidly losing support from both ends of the spectrum. Edit: o I c you're saying the state is perfectly willing to use force on the left but not the right. +1 Cpt_Obvious fucked around with this message at 20:42 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 20:37
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Are they tho? Those BLM riots went on for weeks, even Chaz lasted much longer than it should have and used basically everything but live rounds to put it down. It seems like the state is rapidly losing support from both ends of the spectrum. Every BLM protest I worked in Austin ranged from clubs to rubber bullets and pepper spray. The intentional targeting of fellow medics was icing on the cake. e: or when the police started being SUPER friendly to one of the few independent vloggers working the protests, to the point that many of the participants got paranoid and beat the vlogger up... and them there was no major independent coverage of the protests there.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:41
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Majorian posted:Welp, this is where we're at, America... Maybe they all sneezed or coughed on their hands.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:42
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Bel Shazar posted:Every BLM protest I worked in Austin ranged from clubs to rubber bullets and pepper spray. The intentional targeting of fellow medics was icing on the cake. Yah I misinterpreted you as saying they were effective rather than just cruel. So 
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Jan 6, 2022 20:43
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50% approval in-party, a year later, is an unmitigated disaster and you can literally see the approval flatlining in the other one, so not sure what you guys are getting at FWIW 75% in-party approval of a former president is also disaster-tier, it should be 90+%
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Jan 6, 2022 20:43
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Yah I misinterpreted you as saying they were effective rather than just cruel. So I mean i'm pretty certain a boston massacre moment against the left would get hand waived away by enough of the country to be memory holed within weeks.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:45
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Are they tho? Those BLM riots went on for weeks, even Chaz lasted much longer than it should have and used basically everything but live rounds to put it down. It seems like the state is rapidly losing support from both ends of the spectrum. They're a lot more willing to use immediate force on leftists, anyway, which is a big part of why things escalated into riots in the first place.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:46
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Cpt_Obvious posted:Are they tho? Those BLM riots went on for weeks, even Chaz lasted much longer than it should have and used basically everything but live rounds to put it down. It seems like the state is rapidly losing support from both ends of the spectrum. i wouldn't call them riots, they were the largest protest movement in modern american history and were by far some of the most peaceful protests (at least on the side of the protestors) this country has ever seen only a couple ever turned into riots and that was almost entirely the result of police escalation
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Jan 6, 2022 20:46
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What's up with the 4 capitol cops who committed suicide?
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Jan 6, 2022 20:48
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Violently attempting a coup: LOL you care about this? Democrats performatively shaking the hand of a former VP: This is a grave threat to the country.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:51
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Sodomy Hussein posted:50% approval in-party, a year later, is an unmitigated disaster and you can literally see the approval flatlining in the other one, so not sure what you guys are getting at That's still overwhelming support, the only thing to take from it is that its just a large enough hole in Trump's armor that someone just as fascist as him but competent (DeSantis for instance) could take advantage of it But if whatever remains of the GOP establishment tries to run against him they would get destroyed
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Jan 6, 2022 20:51
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Do people feel silly taking this more seriously than the people that were targetted? https://twitter.com/ArthurDelaneyHP/status/1479155239672496132 It's impossible to say that 1/6 was serious and that democrats are willing/capable of responding to it in a meaningful way. Both of those things can't be true. https://twitter.com/bensiegel/status/1479133345300852738 Reminder that Dick Cheney helped steal an election and yet?
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Jan 6, 2022 20:51
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Mellow Seas posted:Violently attempting a coup: LOL you care about this? Performing for who? Literally no other Republican was there. Also Dick Cheney is a war criminal who's war led to the deaths of over a hundred thousand people, and who's authorization of radioactive munitions has turned a chunk of Iraq into a cancer and birth defect ridden hellhole. I do not think you "gotta hand it to em", personally. e: That post was probably taking the piss but y'know, I love bait more than anything in the world. Yinlock fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 20:59
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Mellow Seas posted:Violently attempting a coup: LOL you care about this? Yes, because Dick Cheney did a lot more to destroy American democratic norms, such as they are, than 1/6/21 did.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:02
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Herstory Begins Now posted:i wouldn't call them riots, they were the largest protest movement in modern american history and were by far some of the most peaceful protests (at least on the side of the protestors) this country has ever seen I mean, the whole movement was a result of police escalation really. I don't know how one would draw the line between protest and riot, but I'd say that there was a significant amount of property damage and direct confrontation with the police in most major cities where it happened. Certainly, all of them were "peaceful" in that the protestors didn't really hurt anyone who didn't try to hurt them first (with exceptions like the Chaz shooting). I think the left needs to stop thinking of riots and property destruction specifically as inherently evil and realize they are the result of a state which cannot or will not address the needs of the public.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:03
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Looking forward to Cheney joining Kasich and probably Dubbya at the 2024 DNC
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Jan 6, 2022 21:03
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Yinlock posted:Performing for who? Literally no other Republican was there. Yinlock posted:Also Dick Cheney is a war criminal who's war led to the deaths of over a hundred thousand people, and who's authorization of radioactive munitions has turned a chunk of Iraq into a cancer and birth defect ridden hellhole. I do not think you "gotta hand it to em", personally. Yinlock posted:e: This post was probably taking the piss but y'know, I love bait for than anything in the world. Majorian posted:Yes, because Dick Cheney did a lot more to destroy American democratic norms, such as they are, than 1/6/21 did.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:05
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Mellow Seas posted:Yes - but a handshake is a handshake. They didn't make him Speaker. They really, really did not have to give a war criminal a handshake and pretend like he's one of the good guys on the anniversary of Jan 6, a day which the Dem leadership is trying to sanctify.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:07
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Not everything has to be about everything. This Cheney-gladhanding is about one very specific thing. "Even this stupid right wing rear end in a top hat thinks Trump is a lunatic" is a resonant argument with some people, if not anybody here. I mean, the Democrats shook hands with a war criminal? The Democratic President is a war criminal! In that context it's not a big deal to me, sorry.
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Jan 6, 2022 21:08
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