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All the "this game is a hyperrealistic police simulator" chuds are going to poo poo themselves inside out when they fix the RoE and they can't just blow away suspects endlessly anymore.
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Jan 7, 2022 06:16
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If they can clean up the animations they should definitely make killing a surrendering suspect a harsher penalty. As it is they kinda flit and judder between states and it can be hard to tell when they've gone from terminator to terminated.
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Jan 7, 2022 06:32
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It'd help if there wasn't apparently a random chance to hit a surrendered suspect in the back of the head or push them to the ground with your foot while you ziptie them.
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Jan 7, 2022 07:41
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Discendo Vox posted:It'd help if there wasn't apparently a random chance to hit a surrendered suspect in the back of the head or push them to the ground with your foot while you ziptie them. That animation is so weird, too. It's not super strong beat down or anything, it's just like a loud slap that obviously hurts, for no loving reason at all.
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Jan 7, 2022 07:45
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It's pretty dumb and petty.
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Jan 7, 2022 10:00
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Basticle posted:https://kotaku.com/controversial-steam-best-seller-ready-or-not-is-an-unse-1848317351 I haven't read a Kotaku article in years and this has just reaffirmed my decision that i'm not missing out on anything important. "Military grade zipties" loving lol
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Jan 7, 2022 13:15
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Kotaku: Reporting on the real issues.
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Jan 7, 2022 14:01
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Kotaku is terrible and not because of their political leanings, yeah. You can get the same perspectives from reading Eurogamer or Rock Paper Shotgun, but those sites manage to push out articles not written for/by embarrassing morons
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Jan 7, 2022 15:07
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Jan 7, 2022 15:47
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Swat 4: Noggin joggers unite!
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Jan 7, 2022 15:50
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Boner pills...? We got nazis here boys!!
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Jan 7, 2022 15:55
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Elendil004 posted:I would be more concerned if it was an American developer but they're what, Kiwis, right? This is just based off the SWAT media we export not a bootlick blue lives matter perspective. The exported SWAT media is all copaganda. By basing a game off of that they are (implicitly) creating something that is aligned with bootlicker blue lives. The fact that they are Kiwis means they are more likely to not know and understand the background and subtext of the media they are influenced by. It is more likely they will end up with their foot in their mouth. I enjoyed SWAT 4 as a game and I hope Ready or Not is a good successor. Right now I’m still on the fence.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:11
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But also, realistically, how do they make a game about cops that somehow isn’t copaganda? Kotaku’s article is trash and it’s really funny how they are literally grasping onto straws. But that doesn’t mean that this game is somehow unproblematic. I love this game and don’t regret my money spent on it at all, but I do want it to navigate this issue the best it can. For the most part though, the game does encourage you to be a ”good” cop, the ROE has some quirks such as being able to shoot a hostile dude through a door or a hostile running away, but any actual guns blazing tactic is punished. Also, the game does leave often a fraction of a second for the player to decide if the hostile is surrendering or pulling out a weapon, and that is the requirement goons often give to cops during these situations in real life. That above twitter post, and their discord, is a pretty strong indications that these aren’t alt right chuds who hate women and poors. And like I’ve said, I don’t really wanna white knight the devs, but I do think that for some people the ”proper” way to make this game is not make it or have cops in it.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:21
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A lot of the people complaining are absolutely just going "no, you shouldn't make this at all". Those people can gently caress off, imo. It's a good game concept.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:23
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What is this in reference to? The red meth crystals are actual crystals and I can't think of any other drug paraphernalia laying around other levels. Vahakyla posted:But also, realistically, how do they make a game about cops that somehow isn’t copaganda? Just like with "there is no such thing as an anti war movie", there really is no such thing as an anti violence violent game. You are going to end up with people who will enjoy it just because it allows them to brutalize people, and it will drive some of them to become police to allow them to do it for real. Even if they aren't straight psychopaths there is always a way to justify it into a "moral position". For this it is also particularly tricky because it trains you to view civilians as annoying and unresponsive rather than the traumatized people you are supposedly supposed to be there to save. If it wasn't for the SWAT inspiration I wouldn't be surprised if someone making a game like this would have you direct civilians to flee to the exit rather than the bonkers idea of immobilization around active shooters. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 16:34 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 16:29
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They do in situations like this, and not just in the US, ziptie everyone. What the game does not show is the concept of ”trailers”, you can hear it in the voice line though, but where the entry team secures everyone and then patrol cops or other cops follow in your footstep, grabbing the people from secured path ways. In active shooter situations, like school, it gets weirder because there is no time to sort people so there’s just mass flow of folks. But barricaded suspect type poo poo, and hostage situations? Everyone is gonna get cuffed because the perps and the bystanders are in no way easy to tell apart.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:39
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Remember that developers have a full spectrum of choices about every aspect of how the game depicts its subject. They are in no way limited by or controlled by "realism" in any individual choice, and in many respects must compromise between different forms of fidelity to make the game function. The inclusion of a school level, or the inclusion of hitting suspects while you cuff them, is a choice, not a requirement. Without reading into the motivations behind that choice, it still reflects something about what the developers choose to prioritize. There are a lot of options for ways to make a game in this genre that doesn't have these issues, and you don't have to set it in 2400 or give people magic wands; the most straightforward would be to start out by saying "this game depicts the police as they ought to operate, not as they actually do", and then adhering to that standard. "Realism" isn't a good defense for any particular choice; it's not as if SWAT are engaging in mass shootouts in booby-trapped complexes on the regular. Similarly, you can choose to avoid "realism" in the selection of venues and suspects so that they don't facilitate stereotypes or appeal to/enable a toxic element in the playerbase. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 16:41
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at least Daryl F Gates wasn't directly involved with the development of the game like the original Police Quest: SWAT. I've been re-watching a lot of footage of it, (mostly compilations of all the ways you can fail at the game, which are kind of hilarious) and if you want to call a game Copaganda that game sure as hell is Copaganda. It's a bit weird to consider in that context, since it's also a game that lets you murder grandma by throwing a flashbang at her. (Though the game does tell you you hosed up if you do that) It's a game that strives to be as Realistic and Accurate as possible but the type of Realism it presents is one specifically crafted by Daryl F Gates himself. (Or at least approved by him) It's really more of a game that portrays SWAT in the best light possible, and everything is basically built around the idea that SWAT team tactics are Good and Correct. (Much like the Police Quest series itself, though there's a big difference between Jim Walls' Police Quest and Daryl Gates' Police Quest. Waypoint wrote an in-depth article about it.) Now this is many SWAT games ago and the context has changed a lot but I do think there is a through line worth considering in here. The Kotaku article doesn't do a particularly good job arguing it, but I do think it's worth pushing against another cop game taking the straightforward route and portraying the police uncritically. It would probably be really tough to do in the context of a tactical simulation game like this, but I think there's still a lot of room to work within. The way that the game chooses to portray the context of the crimes you intervene in, the criminals you arrest, and the civilians that get caught in the middle can do a lot to add or even just acknowledge nuance. Or, as an alternate route, they could do more to make the game feel like a piece of fiction rather than something that might take place in the real world. Stylize things just enough and add some light-hearted background details that it feels like a Cop Movie or something. I think there's a lot you can do while still having Ready or Not fit in as "The Next Swat 4".
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Jan 7, 2022 16:42
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something something ethical consumption under capitalism something something
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Jan 7, 2022 16:42
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Vahakyla posted:They do in situations like this, and not just in the US, ziptie everyone. What the game does not show is the concept of ”trailers”, you can hear it in the voice line though, but where the entry team secures everyone and then patrol cops or other cops follow in your footstep, grabbing the people from secured path ways. Sure, it depends on the situation. A solo active shooter isn't going to have comrades in the crowd, so just having everyone get out of there is fine. If you find people barricaded in a bank vault then civilians are probably not civilians. But like you said, typically they would be removed from the scene. It just seems like if you were making a game and had the choice between "technically you wouldn't let a hostage just walk out to where the other cops are" and "handcuffing someone and just leaving them there while shooters roam the hall" then you'd probably go for the former just because it's less weird. You could even go for the angle of "well there is one way in and out of this building and there are 100,000 cops at that entrance, they'd probably just arrest them there". I mean you can talk about realism or whatever but really the mechanics are there because that's what SWAT did too, same with the civilian punching.
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Jan 7, 2022 16:49
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The game used to have cuffed people disappear just like in Swat 3 when you left the room, after you reported them with a voice line ”trailers, come get this guy”. I don’t remember when but the suspects staying behind was put back in during EA some months ago and it’s on the Dev’s plans to do something about it, though they said scripting traffic cops to get them might be hard.
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Jan 7, 2022 17:01
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You can’t play as a Nazi in Call of Duty anymore so I’m happy games like this are still around
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Jan 7, 2022 17:03
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dogstile posted:A lot of the people complaining are absolutely just going "no, you shouldn't make this at all". Exactly, if the game's gonna get made at least it's not made by Black Rifle Game Co. I also think that there should be two ways that fleeing civs can be handled. If you can shout them down or less lethal them down, you get say, 100 points. If they run far enough away, they just despawn and a 'trailer' gets them and you get 50 points. Elendil004 fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 17:10
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omg chael crash posted:You can’t play as a Nazi in Call of Duty anymore so I’m happy games like this are still around Now we get Ronald Reagan personally telling the character to go do some warcrimes.
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Jan 7, 2022 17:11
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Elendil004 posted:Exactly, if the game's gonna get made at least it's not made by Black Rifle Game Co. It would be actually fun to pirate a game made by people like this. Sixteen levels of increasingly Alex Jones-y stuff culimating in going into an underground doom fortress to arrest Hillary Clinton
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Jan 7, 2022 17:18
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Elendil004 posted:I also think that there should be two ways that fleeing civs can be handled. If you can shout them down or less lethal them down, you get say, 100 points. If they run far enough away, they just despawn and a 'trailer' gets them and you get 50 points. Sometimes those "Civ's" pull guns so its definitely more interesting the way its currently handled.
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Jan 7, 2022 17:20
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dogstile posted:Sometimes those "Civ's" pull guns so its definitely more interesting the way its currently handled. Yeah I want to incentivize grabbing them but avoid having to comb the parking lot after all the bad guys are taken care of for one civ in a corner.
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Jan 7, 2022 17:24
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CuddleCryptid posted:All the "this game is a hyperrealistic police simulator" chuds are going to poo poo themselves inside out when they fix the RoE and they can't just blow away suspects endlessly anymore. What's funny is that the games RoE is already more strict than irl SWAT in most cases. In reality, if a bunch of people with guns shot some civilians and barricaded themselves in a hotel or gas station and SWAT gets called in, they'll have issued demands about disarming and giving up already, so when SWAT gets there they are shooting everybody with a gun after a quick warning. And you certainly get shot if you've got a gun and try to run off to a different part of the building. You don't get to hold a gun in your hands for too long after SWAT storms a building. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:The main issue is the prospect of portraying violence against children. If it was a university, this wouldn't garner controversy - it didn't when SWAT 4 did it. I can see peoples problem with it, but people managed to get over a COD level where you, the player, participate in a mass shooting, so as long as the officers aren't cracking jokes about dead kids I don't really have a problem with a game that has you working to stop a mass shooting, no matter the age. Tumble fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 18:11
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The weirdest thing about shooting these guys because they took hostages is that the hostages are really lovely ones. Especially in the gas station level, half the time you'll find two hostages standing alone in the store section with no crims around just flipping out instead of just, yknow, leaving. Maybe they are just having a party, idk, it's not my business. (Yes I know they shot the cashier) E. Although my favorite is the hotel where you can open the first door to find a hostage just hanging out. "Hey, what's up"
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Jan 7, 2022 18:59
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CuddleCryptid posted:What is this in reference to? The red meth crystals are actual crystals and I can't think of any other drug paraphernalia laying around other levels. This is one of the few things the Kotaku article actually highlights well. It's just a cardboard box in a bin, but it and other placeholder materials are a bad sign of the attitudes of at least whoever made those assets and greenlit them. Tumble posted:I can see peoples problem with it, but people managed to get over a COD level where you, the player, participate in a mass shooting, so as long as the officers aren't cracking jokes about dead kids I don't really have a problem with a game that has you working to stop a mass shooting, no matter the age. Again, violence against adults and violence against children are very different things. The problem isn't the mass shooting - it's a mass shooting involving children. That and the COD level never forced you to actively take part in the shooting, but was still extremely controversial and some people are still not over it. Plus, if there are children in the game, that means it'd be possible for players to shoot them. So then you gain the option for players to be involved in a mass shooting of children, as police officers no less, just as you can massacre civilians right now. That's a whole rear end other can of worms. The solution is to just not have kids in the game, because the age absolutely does matter. But still the whole point's whatever, the constraints of close quarters tactical shooting under an RoE make games like this and SWAT good, and Ready or Not does that side of things well, even if there's a little bit of animation jank and some insanely accurate quick-draw gunslingers that belong in a Western. This poo poo doesn't affect what makes the game a good game, just whether or not it's comfortable for some.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:12
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Hmmm torn between laughing at Kotaku or the people mad about them removing some assets in the Twitter thread.
Hub Cat fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 21:12
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Them not including a school level is silly. Just make it a college. The lack of any tubular assaults is also borderline criminal, I hope we see one in the future.
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Jan 7, 2022 22:48
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Elendil004 posted:Them not including a school level is silly. Just make it a college. too late it's a kindergarten and you have the option to play as the gun Elendil004 posted:The lack of any tubular assaults is also borderline criminal, I hope we see one in the future. Check for traps! 
Tumble fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Jan 7, 2022 |
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Jan 7, 2022 23:51
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I'd rather have a train or subway station or something rather than a plane. Planes are played out. Also give me boats, boats are great.
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Jan 8, 2022 00:23
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I just picked it up and it's got a few problems but other wise is incredibly fun: 1. The police walk like they're covered in molasses. I understand it's supposed to be a realistic sim, but even in full body armor and ballistic mask a S.W.A.T. officer could run faster than 2 miles an hour. It wouldn't be such a problem if the suspects themselves weren't capable of speedy Gonzalez type movements that (I think unintentionally) end up taking out entire teams of S.W.A.T. officers. 2. Every civilian is borderline retarded and need to be severely supressed before they give up. It's to the point where some of the civilians are harder to arrest than the actual suspects are and that seems bad. 3. What the hell is going on with stinger grenades? Are they lethal or non-lethal? Because I killed multiple civilians with them last night on accident, and it didn't seem like there was a solid feel to the grenade at all. Also, flashbangs don't blind you which is pretty loving stupid if you think about it. They should've just copied SWAT 4 here, made them disorienting and deafening, then cause some kind of temporary blindness. As it stands theres no diffference between the flashbangs and the stingers. 4. Characters have absolutely no reaction to being shot with less than lethal weapons. Shoot a guy with a real gun and he screams but hit him with an incredibly powerful paintball gun with paintball rounds and he doesn't even make a noise. They dont even cough if you use CS gas. 5. The shooting through the walls poo poo is absolutely retarded. There are times where the suspects are able to murder me through a wall, but if I fire back with a rifle I can't do the same. 6. What's up with the shotguns, you mean to tell me that there's a breaching shotgun that blasts doors open but a regular one can't? Like cmon now
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Jan 8, 2022 15:52
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Epic Prison Guy posted:2. Every civilian is borderline retarded and Don't do this, please. Agreed on some stuff. Stingers need a buff/bug fix because there's no point in running anything but gas right now. LTL stuff needs better reactions, it's hard to tell if the pepper gun is working or not until you spam someone in the face and yell for surrender. Shooting through walls is fine and adds a good element to stuff, the default AI is way too over-tuned however. There are breaching rounds specifically intended for shotguns and while a regular shotgun will happily gently caress up a lovely door, sturdier stuff can survive it. It's half a gamification and it's fine.
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Jan 8, 2022 15:57
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Orv posted:Don't do this, please. Don't do what? Call them retarded? They literally don't stop even after having bullets fired past their heads, I even punched one several times earlier with the taser and it was like it had no effect on them whatsoever. If that's not retarded what is at that point. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 8, 2022 15:58
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Epic Prison Guy posted:Don't do what? Call them r-word? Reference: https://www.spreadtheword.global/resource-archive/r-word-effects Recent probation for improper use of the r-word by Razzled in their post: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=2985117&pagenumber=1137&perpage=40#post520382722 Oh, it looks like you got probated back on 12/27/21 for the same r-word infraction. Welp. nnnotime fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 18:19
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I haven't played a SWAT-style game since Rogue Spear and am really enjoying this. Aggressive sweeps of levels are intense for PvE and the quirky AI makes for some funny poo poo, like a super cautious team-mate wanding a door and getting shot through it immediately. My main criticism is that getting a quick game going and keeping it going is frustrating. The lobby/briefing room should be replaced with a menu as it slows everything down and the session should be transferred to another player when the host rage quits. Oh, and the 'gamer' community seems as toxic as poo poo judging by the subreddit but I can just turn off comms.
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Jan 8, 2022 21:46
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Just join us on the coop goon discord and don't touch the stove.
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Jan 8, 2022 22:41
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