Industry Terribleness/ComicsGate Thread - Read OP Carefully

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > Industry Terribleness/ComicsGate Thread - Read OP Carefully

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Opopanax: Aug 8, 2007; I HEX YE!!!

I think Piskor is just a bit of a edge lord so can come off that way, but I've never seen anything problematic or heard any bad stories

# ? Jan 4, 2022 03:56

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# ? May 25, 2024 14:49

Mr. Maltose: Feb 16, 2011; The Guffless Girlverine

There's the time he was afraid former BSS mod David Brothers was going to beat him up, which was doubly weird because there wasn't any threats or anything beyond saying "maybe white dudes shouldn't be so comfortable with saying slurs."

# ? Jan 4, 2022 04:27

How Wonderful!: Jul 18, 2006; I only have excellent ideas

All the former BSS mods are planning on beating him up. Just felt I should clear the air on this. Probably just gonna wait around behind Cumberland Farms in case he shows up then knock his propeller cap off his head and yell "justice is served!"

# ? Jan 4, 2022 08:30

Happy Hippo: Aug 8, 2004; The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > Batman's Shameful Secret > BSS Derailed Thread: Spider-Island

Was he saying slurs? Or are we mad because he knows stuff about hip hop music, the most popular music on the planet?

# ? Jan 5, 2022 00:28

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

I made the assumption that he was a shithead and was quickly corrected. He's a huge dork but that's about it, seems that generally everyone likes him.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 00:31

Edge & Christian: May 20, 2001; Earth-1145 is truly the best!
A world of singing, magic frogs,
high adventure, no shitposters

The specific thing was that the first Hip Hop Family Tree collections had the dedication page read "THIS IS DEDICATED TO THE #!&&@$ THAT WAS DOWN FROM DAY ONE" and hermanos questioned that decision on Twitter (especially given that the rest of HHFT doesn't use grawlix for any objectionable words), and he may have implied the whole project was vaguely suspect. None of it rose above the level of "mild side-eye" but then seem to have gotten inflated to "ur dead at ~~gooncon~~ Comicon" in the mind of Piskor and people in his circle.

I also think the whole project is a little queasy, both from a "who is making the book / how is the book presented artistically and historically" and the whole "yes I am going to cosplay as a 1984 Hip Hop Head while promoting it" way. I fully believe it's a genuine admiration for hip hop, but it all felt a little bit like when Jeph Loeb wore a Karate outfit to an Iron Fist panel.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 00:49

PoontifexMacksimus: Feb 14, 2012

Mr. Maltose posted:

There's the time he was afraid former BSS mod David Brothers was going to beat him up, which was doubly weird because there wasn't any threats or anything beyond saying "maybe white dudes shouldn't be so comfortable with saying slurs."

Does he still write about comics? I remember some of my comments on his blog getting deleted for being insufficiently funny (literally a decade ago, lol), but I still liked his comic commentary more than most equivalent commentators on the web

# ? Jan 5, 2022 00:56

ruddiger: Jun 3, 2004

It�s a lyric to a rap song.

ruddiger fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jan 5, 2022

# ? Jan 5, 2022 01:07

Edge & Christian: May 20, 2001; Earth-1145 is truly the best!
A world of singing, magic frogs,
high adventure, no shitposters

ruddiger posted:

It�s a lyric to a rap song.

It is. What's your point?

# ? Jan 5, 2022 01:24

claw game handjob: Mar 27, 2007; pinch pinch scrape pinch
ow ow fuck it's caught
i'm bleeding
JESUS TURN IT OFF
WHY ARE YOU STILL SMILING

PoontifexMacksimus posted:

Does he still write about comics? I remember some of my comments on his blog getting deleted for being insufficiently funny (literally a decade ago, lol), but I still liked his comic commentary more than most equivalent commentators on the web

While his writing is few and far between now, he does have a lot of regular comics discussion on this podcast with two other folks and some dingus named Chip that comes out regularly.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 01:27

How Wonderful!: Jul 18, 2006; I only have excellent ideas

Happy Hippo posted:

Was he saying slurs? Or are we mad because he knows stuff about hip hop music, the most popular music on the planet?

I dunno, we're just spoiling for a brawl

# ? Jan 5, 2022 02:26

Endless Mike: Aug 13, 2003

He's also got an infrequent newsletter that's sometimes about comics, usually not.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 02:26

Mr. Maltose: Feb 16, 2011; The Guffless Girlverine

Yeah to be clear hermanos� comments weren�t nearly as blunt or flip as my off the cuff summary. Its just equal parts amusing and telling to me that Piskor�s reaction to the mildest criticism from a PoC also working in comics at the time was �he�s going to beat me up�.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 02:56

After The War: Apr 12, 2005; to all of my Architects
let me be traitor

ruddiger posted:

It�s a lyric to a rap song.

which ends with Snoop (too young to have been down from Day 1) poo poo-talking people who had been with Dre at the beginning. The Chronic is a weird fuckin' record.

Not to derail too much, I just find that very funny.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 03:44

Big Bad Voodoo Lou: Jan 1, 2006

Vincent posted:

Isn't Piskor a piece of poo poo as well? Not an abuser, just an rear end in a top hat? Besides the whole white-kid thinking he's the arbiter of hip-hop thing.

Edge & Christian posted:

The specific thing was that the first Hip Hop Family Tree collections had the dedication page read "THIS IS DEDICATED TO THE #!&&@$ THAT WAS DOWN FROM DAY ONE" and hermanos questioned that decision on Twitter (especially given that the rest of HHFT doesn't use grawlix for any objectionable words), and he may have implied the whole project was vaguely suspect. None of it rose above the level of "mild side-eye" but then seem to have gotten inflated to "ur dead at ~~gooncon~~ Comicon" in the mind of Piskor and people in his circle.

I also think the whole project is a little queasy, both from a "who is making the book / how is the book presented artistically and historically" and the whole "yes I am going to cosplay as a 1984 Hip Hop Head while promoting it" way. I fully believe it's a genuine admiration for hip hop, but it all felt a little bit like when Jeph Loeb wore a Karate outfit to an Iron Fist panel.

This worries me a bit, because I had a great idea to pitch a class I would teach about hip hop and the law. I've been a hip hop fan since I was a teenager in the '90s, and I was hoping to use some of my favorite music to teach lessons about constitutional law (First Amendment issues and censorship), copyright law (sampling), criminal law, social justice issues, and even the dreaded critical race theory.

But I'm a nerdy white guy in my 40s, so I was really worried about being accused of cultural appropriation, or teaching a class about something I'm not familiar with -- even though I am. I planned to be very upfront about my own privilege, and the fact that I literally study this stuff, as a law librarian/pop culture scholar and a former musician, but I realize I can't say all the words in the songs, and my experiences are probably very different from these artists. I would want to pay the music, the culture, and especially the people who created it all the respect and reverence they deserve, without making it about me.

I don't know when and if this class will ever happen, but every time I start feeling confident and excited about it, I worry that I'm not the right guy for the job, even though it's my idea, and I stand by it being a cool idea. And I think Piskor probably had very similar concerns, as the same kind of nerdy white guy who was a serious fan and student of hip hop and its culture and history.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 04:02

Soonmot: Dec 19, 2002; Entrapta fucking loves robots; Grimey Drawer

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

This worries me a bit, because I had a great idea to pitch a class I would teach about hip hop and the law. I've been a hip hop fan since I was a teenager in the '90s, and I was hoping to use some of my favorite music to teach lessons about constitutional law (First Amendment issues and censorship), copyright law (sampling), criminal law, social justice issues, and even the dreaded critical race theory.

But I'm a nerdy white guy in my 40s, so I was really worried about being accused of cultural appropriation, or teaching a class about something I'm not familiar with -- even though I am. I planned to be very upfront about my own privilege, and the fact that I literally study this stuff, as a law librarian/pop culture scholar and a former musician, but I realize I can't say all the words in the songs, and my experiences are probably very different from these artists. I would want to pay the music, the culture, and especially the people who created it all the respect and reverence they deserve, without making it about me.

I don't know when and if this class will ever happen, but every time I start feeling confident and excited about it, I worry that I'm not the right guy for the job, even though it's my idea, and I stand by it being a cool idea. And I think Piskor probably had very similar concerns, as the same kind of nerdy white guy who was a serious fan and student of hip hop and its culture and history.

I mean that approach seems good to me. Seems like a cool class.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 04:11

Air Skwirl: May 13, 2007; Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

This worries me a bit, because I had a great idea to pitch a class I would teach about hip hop and the law. I've been a hip hop fan since I was a teenager in the '90s, and I was hoping to use some of my favorite music to teach lessons about constitutional law (First Amendment issues and censorship), copyright law (sampling), criminal law, social justice issues, and even the dreaded critical race theory.

But I'm a nerdy white guy in my 40s, so I was really worried about being accused of cultural appropriation, or teaching a class about something I'm not familiar with -- even though I am. I planned to be very upfront about my own privilege, and the fact that I literally study this stuff, as a law librarian/pop culture scholar and a former musician, but I realize I can't say all the words in the songs, and my experiences are probably very different from these artists. I would want to pay the music, the culture, and especially the people who created it all the respect and reverence they deserve, without making it about me.

I don't know when and if this class will ever happen, but every time I start feeling confident and excited about it, I worry that I'm not the right guy for the job, even though it's my idea, and I stand by it being a cool idea. And I think Piskor probably had very similar concerns, as the same kind of nerdy white guy who was a serious fan and student of hip hop and its culture and history.

Just don't say the n word and you'll be fine, assuming you're a good teacher.

# ? Jan 5, 2022 04:13

Space Fish: Oct 14, 2008; The original Big Tuna.

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

But I'm a nerdy white guy in my 40s,

*uploads video of a student responding "literally why?"* To the cringe gulags with you!

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

I think Piskor probably had very similar concerns, as the same kind of nerdy white guy who was a serious fan and student of hip hop and its culture and history.

Does Piskor have any actual terribleness on his record, or just that time Brothers raised an eyebrow in his direction?

# ? Jan 5, 2022 06:34

Barry Convex: Sep 1, 2005; Think of the good things, Pim! The good things!

Like Jesus, candy, and crackerjacks! Ice cream and cake and lots o'laffs!
Grandma, Grandpa, and Uncle Joe! Larry, Curly, and brother Moe!

https://twitter.com/sievish/status/1478776007607918593

# ? Jan 5, 2022 22:55

JordanKai: Aug 19, 2011; Get high and think of me.

What a petty thing to do.

# ? Jan 6, 2022 11:06

Samovar: Jun 4, 2011; I'm 😤 not a 🦸🏻‍♂️hero...🧜🏻

AHCAB

# ? Jan 7, 2022 08:40

JordanKai: Aug 19, 2011; Get high and think of me.

https://twitter.com/UnionElections/status/1479182802662920196

:cheersbird:

# ? Jan 7, 2022 13:34

Air Skwirl: May 13, 2007; Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

JordanKai posted:

https://twitter.com/UnionElections/status/1479182802662920196

Imagine being one of the 2 employees who voted against a union and then having lunch with your coworkers the next day.

# ? Jan 7, 2022 16:12

Speak: Jul 20, 2001; "Education Professional" model Doombot

Skwirl posted:

Imagine being one of the 2 employees who voted against a union and then having lunch with your coworkers the next day.

It's an NLRB election, so it had to be done by anonymous vote. As long as they pretend like they're happy it went that way, they'll be fine.

# ? Jan 7, 2022 21:30

OnimaruXLR: Sep 15, 2007; Lurklurklurklurklurk

people have already mentioned the irony of image, the company formed by people who wanted more control and more right to the profits from their labor, fighting against unionization, right?

# ? Jan 10, 2022 23:31

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

OnimaruXLR posted:

people have already mentioned the irony of image, the company formed by people who wanted more control and more right to the profits from their labor, fighting against unionization, right?

It's pretty much been that way since the beginning. Like the Image founders saying it's not fair that DC and Marvel get to keep the rights to characters that the Image founders created for those companies, but then you have McFarlane going to court against Gaiman over the rights to the characters Gaiman created.

Or the early "shared universe" idea that Image had, like where Rob Liefeld's characters where involved in Spawn's origins, but the moment Liefeld's kicked out, Todd quickly rewrites Spawn's origin so he doesn't have to pay licenses/royalties to Rob.

Davros1 fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Jan 11, 2022

# ? Jan 11, 2022 00:45

FMguru: Sep 10, 2003; peed on;
sexually

Davros1 posted:

It's pretty much been that way since the beginning. Like the Image founders saying it's not fair that DC and Marvel get to keep the rights to characters that the Image founders created for those companies, but then you have McFarlane going to court against Gaiman over the rights to the characters Gaiman created.

Or the early "shared universe" idea that Image had, like where Rob Liefeld's characters where involved in Spawn's origins, but the moment Liefeld's kicked out, Todd quickly rewrites Spawn's origin so he doesn't have to pay licenses/royalties to Rob.

Early Image had people like Dave Sim hooting and hollering about how this was a dagger to the idea of corporate ownership, that people would be allowed to own the things they created, no more piecemeal work-for-hire grinding to make another man rich. Except the Image guys almost all immediately set themselves up to be mini-Marvels with universes and studios and work-for-hire and toy and merchandising deals that only the founders benefited from.

Basically, "we're tired of being exploited by Marvel - if anyone is going to be doing the exploiting and raking in the bucks, it's going to be us!"

# ? Jan 11, 2022 00:51

Uthor: Jul 9, 2006; Gummy Bear Heaven ... It's where I go when the world is too mean.

Been listening to the Cartoonist Kayfabe readings of the Gaiman deposition in the Angela trial and Todd told Neil about how royalties would be hard as the Image creators would just loan their characters to each other without any written contracts or expectations of payment. poo poo gets messy that way!

# ? Jan 11, 2022 00:53

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

FMguru posted:

Early Image had people like Dave Sim hooting and hollering about how this was a dagger to the idea of corporate ownership, that people would be allowed to own the things they created, no more piecemeal work-for-hire grinding to make another man rich. Except the Image guys almost all immediately set themselves up to be mini-Marvels with universes and studios and work-for-hire and toy and merchandising deals that only the founders benefited from.

Basically, "we're tired of being exploited by Marvel - if anyone is going to be doing the exploiting and raking in the bucks, it's going to be us!"

There's even the issue of Spawn written by Sim where Cerebus shows up that is explicitly about this.

# ? Jan 11, 2022 03:54

Davros1: Jul 19, 2007; You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible

Dawgstar posted:

There's even the issue of Spawn written by Sim where Cerebus shows up that is explicitly about this.

It was issue #10. Gaiman's issue that introduced Angela was #9.

Heh.

# ? Jan 11, 2022 05:31

Jedit: Dec 10, 2011; Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Davros1 posted:

It's pretty much been that way since the beginning. Like the Image founders saying it's not fair that DC and Marvel get to keep the rights to characters that the Image founders created for those companies, but then you have McFarlane going to court against Gaiman over the rights to the characters Gaiman created.

That reminds me of the marketing push for Spawn #100. Months in advance they put out adverts that simply said "She dies", and hyped up that it could be literally any female character in the Spawn universe - maybe even Al's daughter.

Meanwhile, everyone with half an eye on the legal goings-on looked up briefly and said "It's Angela".

# ? Jan 11, 2022 11:28