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Punches probably look bad when watching on your phone.
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Jan 8, 2022 01:46
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punk rebel ecks posted:Any thoughts on this? actually yeah this is a lot of why i loved this movie so so so so much
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Jan 8, 2022 01:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's only true in the sense that we don't truly 'know' what's in a bowl of Frosted Flakes. We nonetheless have a pretty good idea. It's not like some big mystery. Interesting in that there is only one matrix power company it seems. Its a state controlled utility. Though I guess the civil war could be like a new company out competing the other and simply gaining market dominance again. There could have been a time of competing matrices. We do have to assume that most of Morpheus and the zion knowledge is what is based on initial info that the machines give them when they restart zion with next batch of 21 humans. As they leave them the city and hovercraft, maybe they also leave them sacred historical tablets.
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Jan 8, 2022 01:57
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moths posted:Are the Witchowskis trans Tyler Perry? Is this a knock since Tyler Perry makes mediocre movies that despite that are popular?
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Jan 8, 2022 02:04
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checkplease posted:Punches probably look bad when watching on your phone. Hey I watched on my jumbotron
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Jan 8, 2022 02:09
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Huh, just saw this film and I really liked it! Wachowski should definitely be forced at gunpoint by studio legalese to make movies more often. I will say that it coulda been gayer and also there were certain points where I was like, okay, these bullets are missing the good guys way too much. Genuinely not sure what the black cat represents, either. I mean...yes, deja vu, but besides that.
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Jan 8, 2022 02:26
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punk rebel ecks posted:Any thoughts on this? I kinda skimmed it but the narrator doesn't seem to touch on the like 2/3rds of the movie spent on Io. Like the first bit with Neo wondering who he really is etc is good, but then it's another hour and half that's just kinda boring and meandering. Like Neo goes through all this poo poo to bust out of the matrix again, but Trinity is just living her matrix life the whole time with no apparent questioning of what's real. Then she sees Neo and goes yeah I guess my life is fake when her chad husband chad is a dick. My favorite bit was the poorly choreographed fight scene where 75% of the screen time was a ranting homeless Frenchman.
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Jan 8, 2022 02:50
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I feel like they set up Trinity's simmering discontent pretty well earlier in the coffee shop conversations, though. Like when she asked her husband if she looked like the Trinity character and he just laughed at her. Hell, her life felt like such a drag that her later reluctance about leaving it actually felt kinda unrealistic.
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Jan 8, 2022 03:06
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appropriatemetaphor posted:My favorite bit was the poorly choreographed fight scene where 75% of the screen time was a ranting homeless Frenchman. That was unironically one of the best scenes in the film.
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Jan 8, 2022 03:06
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Alchenar posted:Link literally scrolls to the corner edge of the map to find the castle. Maps of places generally have edges. massive spider posted:It could be one city, it could be a specific unnamed American city. The first interpretation fits the theme of 'this is all a video game' but raises in universe questions about how that would work, the second is more 'realistic So it's the second, then.
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Jan 8, 2022 03:38
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ImpAtom posted:That was unironically one of the best scenes in the film. It really was. He's ranting and raving about how poo poo everything is, how the internet sucks, and all media has gotten worse. In front of him is proof. One thing I thought was funny is that at the very end of the film, Trinity has the level of power that Neo had only at the very end of the first one. She blows up Neil Patrick Harris' house with a thought. Kills him and brings him back to life with a snap of her fingers. Neo could do that sort of poo poo too, warping the environment and jumping inside people, but the sequels could never let him. That's just another reason why the sequels should never have been made.
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Jan 8, 2022 03:43
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punk rebel ecks posted:Is this a knock since Tyler Perry makes mediocre movies that despite that are popular? Not in the least. I think both creators (considering the Witchowskis as a team for simplicity) resonate hard with their respective in-groups and just don't with out-groupers. The video talked about how beautiful the (lackluster, to my eye) shots were, and how the image of Neo reaching for Trinity nearly brought the narrator to tears. There was a loving focus on the stupid scene where Trinity tells Neo how her husband laughed when she confided that she identified with a videogame sidekick. And it pretty much nailed it that this movie absolutely wasn't intended for me in the same way the Madea films aren't. I'm looking at Matrix Ressurections as a film, and it's fun but super-flawed and kinda trash. But its value is as a collection of shibboleths; big-screen representation, commonality that speaks to shared experiences that are exceedingly rare, and community. There's a lot of full-throated enthusiastic praise for the film, and I think it's got more to do with the visceral emotional connection it had with its intended audience. As someone without the prerequisite experiences, I don't have that same passion or appreciation. I saw a lovely high-budget Matrix knockoff where other people saw a depiction of their own lived experience and emotion. Criticism of the film got conflated with criticism of that connection, and I think it's fair to say that a better film would have made that connection more accessible instead of hiding it behind a bunch of woo mumbo-jumbo, low-effort action, and technobabble. Because I'd like to have seen the same movie that the person in the video loved. But there was a lot of poo poo in the way.
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Jan 8, 2022 04:40
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I mean even without that reading I think reading the scene as "Trinity identifies with a video game sidekick" is more of a stretch of a reading than "Trinity identifies with the person she truly is inside while her husband laughs at her" because that's the genuine actual text of the scene in addition to the subtext. She wasn't identifying with Lara Croft.
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Jan 8, 2022 04:56
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moths posted:I think both creators (considering the Witchowskis as a team for simplicity) resonate hard with their respective in-groups and just don't with out-groupers. But also: --The Wachoskies have clearly made films that resonate with people outside of being gender confirming themselves --We are still having the issue of seeing The Matrix's trans politics as being strictly allegorical to the trans experience, which it is, but also challenging the ideas of gender binary which a system of a power that needs to be challenged. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 05:34 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 05:28
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ImpAtom posted:I mean even without that reading I think reading the scene as "Trinity identifies with a video game sidekick" is more of a stretch of a reading than "Trinity identifies with the person she truly is inside while her husband laughs at her" because that's the genuine actual text of the scene in addition to the subtext. She wasn't identifying with Lara Croft. She's essentially telling her husband she identifies with Sonic's pal Tails while the film gives it the gravity of identifying as the person she truly is. A better film would have contextualized that incredibly clutch moment for everybody. And that goes to my point; If you have a relatable experience, the scene has your powerful personal experience to draw upon. And if you don't? It's just more weird dialogue in a movie full of nonsense talk. The most resonant moments seem to be captioned "If you know, you know." Timeless Appeal posted:Is the producer of the video trans? I refuse to speculate on this.
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Jan 8, 2022 05:54
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moths posted:She's essentially telling her husband she identifies with Sonic's pal Tails while the film gives it the gravity of identifying as the person she truly is. No she doesn't. She is saying she identifies as Trinity. You know, the character she literally is. Trying to frame it as no different from someone pretending they are Tails ignores everything about the scene to be weirdly dismissive of it in some weird attempt to... I don't know. Like I get you're trying to be positive but you're framing it as "Man, I just don't understand those trans weirdos, how could they not laugh at this obviously ridiculous scene? I guess I just don't have their life experience." That's a really critical part of the story. She is looking at someone who is her and going "This is me" while people around her tell her that no, it isn't you. It being based on a video game character is irrelevant because the actual text of the story is "this is no for real actually her story and her experience but others are denying that it is/saying it is a fantasy." This is important to the trans reading but it isn't exclusive to just that. The idea of someone finding their identity and being treated as a joke because of it shouldn't be a trans-exclusive viewpoint. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 05:59
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I tried to imagine someone I love telling me "Hey you know what? I'm Luigi. Like from the games." I'd absolutely loving laugh, too. But if someone I love came out and shared something real and sincere about their identity, that wasn't literally impossible, that wasn't absurdist humor? That's someone you try to understand. I think the disconnect between the metaphor and the message was a bridge too far for people without that lived experience.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:06
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moths posted:I tried to imagine someone I love telling me "Hey you know what? I'm Luigi. Like from the games." I'd absolutely loving laugh, too. It comes across as you seeing the word "video game" and instantly treating it like someone writing fanfiction about Sonic the Hedgehog and not, y'know, something that is actually relevant. Hell identifying with a video game character can actually be very relevant for people coming to terms with their true identity not because lol dumbasses can't be realistic but because video games offer a way to create and embody a form that feels better and more natural for yourself, even if just in a virtual way. Like you can mock people if you want but it turns out having the ability to create your own avatar who better matches how you feel inside is actually something that matters to people. Like just as a recent example there's a MMO called Final Fantasy XIV where you create your own protagonist and play as them. A recent expansion has a mission where that character gets kicked out of their own body and a number of trans players openly expressed how loving awful that made them feel because it *did* force them out of a virtual body they felt more at home in into a body that wasn't theirs. Trinity identifying with someone who is closer to the actual her than the false body she is put into isn't some otherkinning poo poo. If you want to laugh at people because of things like that then you do you, but other people are absolutely free to consider you an rear end in a top hat for it, especially if you reduce it to "lol you think you're luigi"
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Jan 8, 2022 06:12
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moths posted:I refuse to speculate on this.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:14
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"She thinks she's Luigi" is way too close to the South Park "trans people? Well, I identify as a dolphin" type joke and it really sucks to hear that anywhere
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Jan 8, 2022 06:16
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Timeless Appeal posted:Okay, well very noble. The point is that you are using a video that implies that trans people are jaded by their own share experiences to view quality in Resurrections that is not there. I'm not saying that trans people are perceiving some phantom quality. I'm saying that unless you're already privy to it the quality that a few people are seeing is really hard to notice over all the bad. A True Jar Jar Fan posted:"She thinks she's Luigi" is way too close to the South Park "trans people? Well, I identify as a dolphin" type joke and it really sucks to hear that anywhere And it's a dirt bad metaphor for anything. I'm trying to reframe the actual scenario described in the film into our real-world terms. In the film's universe, Trinity is the sidekick character of Neo, hero of the popular videogame trilogy The Matrix. She has action figures and toys. Feel free to substitute in Ghost from CoD or Ms Pac-Man any other more palatable character. It's a bad allegory unless you're primed to see it as a good one. moths fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 06:24
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moths posted:I'm not saying that trans people are perceiving some phantom quality. I'm saying that unless you're already privy to it the quality that a few people are seeing is really hard to notice over all the bad. Also once again, the broader point is that the video you were referencing to begin with seems to demonstrating the opposite of your point.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:35
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I think you have to try real hard to compare Trinity's experience against something so belittling as "she thinks she's luigi" when the text is so blatant with its message. This burden of knowledge being relative to the scene's meaningfulness is non-existant. Even the most basic reading behind the idea that Trinity sees so much of a "ficitional" character in her carries emotional weight. Reading it any other way, imo, simply shows a clear lack of empathy.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:36
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moths posted:And it's a dirt bad metaphor for anything. I'm trying to reframe the actual scenario described in the film into our real-world terms.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:44
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I played Super Mario with my older brother when I was young and I always used Luigi and I identified with Luigi. 'Cuz...I was more like Luigi than Mario. I was literally a younger brother playing with my older brother, who was Mario. It's not that weird of a thing. (And I identified more with Tails as well, come to mention it.) A person identifies with the character who they see the most of themselves in. Why would Trinity see herself as Neo, or Morpheus? She's not Neo or Morpheus, she's Trinity. She's most like that "character." (who is literally her anyway) Again, it's not strange, any more than it would be for a woman to watch Star Wars and see herself more as Leia than as Luke, even though Luke is the hero. Now, if you're saying it sucks that "Trinity characters" are often relegated to the sidekicks for the Neo characters, well, yeah, that is true; there was even a whole trope named after this...trope. But that doesn't make it inappropriate or otherwise ignominious for someone to identify with these side characters, who are often more female, more nonwhite, or more queer than the leading protags. I wouldn't even say it's specifically only a thing that only women, PoC, or queer people are particularly cognizant of. Sometimes? You just don't see yourself as Mario.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:46
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I'm saying that from the husband's perspective it's pretty funny. The film assumes an audience will automatically read it as an utterly insensitive cruelty. I'm using this as an example of how quality got missed. Not everyone was as primed as Lana Wachowski to read that scene as intended. So instead, people focused on the parts they understood, and those parts were still kind of confusing and bad. moths fucked around with this message at 07:03 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 06:47
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It's "Wachowski" "I opened up to my husband and he laughed at me" is generally read as insensitive yes A True Jar Jar Fan fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 06:54
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Idk man, it's not really that hard to parse. It's not like the original Trinity was some kind of joke character. She was cool and hot and kicked people a lot. The fact that Chad laughed at her identifying with this character was him being incredulous that his own wife could be as cool or hot and you'd have to be real dense to miss that. I don't think anyone watching the scene went "Ha, Trinity thinks she's a sidekick!"
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Jan 8, 2022 06:57
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moths posted:I'm saying that from the husband's perspective it's pretty funny. Like Teagone said, the scene doesn't really require any background or really a critical lens. Trinity saw herself in the character, expressed it to her husband, he laughed at her, and it's sad because he doesn't see her the way she sees herself, and worse she just buries that self-concept. I think a lot of folks have had some version of that and even if you somehow haven't, it's not hard to understand why it's sad.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:57
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Presumably, the game features at least one scene of Trinity on a motorcycle, which would be an appropriate jumping off point for "Tiffany" to see her self in the narrative as a woman who spends most of her day working on or riding motorcycles.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:05
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Again, I think the forest is getting missed for the trees here: The parts of Matrix Ressurections that intensely resonated with some people? They inarguably did not resonate with everyone. And short of those moments, you're left with a very mediocre film.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:08
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moths posted:The parts of Matrix Ressurections that intensely resonated with some people? They inarguably did not resonate with everyone. Yes in that this is true for every piece of media ever
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Jan 8, 2022 07:13
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I think that's why more filmmakers try to make the most important themes central and accessible.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:20
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moths posted:Again, I think the forest is getting missed for the trees here: Basically this. If I told my wife I strongly identify with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Conan the barbarian and that he was basically me she would rightfully laugh her rear end off at me. Basically because I'm a schlubby middle-aged man that is nothing like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:24
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PeterCat posted:Basically this. If I told my wife I strongly identify with Arnold Schwarzenegger and Conan the barbarian and that he was basically me she would rightfully laugh her rear end off at me. Ok, but context matters? Are you in the same situation as Trinity? If so I'll shut up, but Matrix Resurrections is very explicit with its messaging.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:33
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BrianWilly posted:Idk man, it's not really that hard to parse. Yeah it was clearly a huge slap in face. Just like one good scene in a mountain of mush though. More Trinity dealing with her poo poo husband and less Io people jizzing about strawberries with nanobot morpheos.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:36
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ImpAtom posted:I mean even without that reading I think reading the scene as "Trinity identifies with a video game sidekick" is more of a stretch of a reading than "Trinity identifies with the person she truly is inside while her husband laughs at her" because that's the genuine actual text of the scene in addition to the subtext. She wasn't identifying with Lara Croft. It’s not an either/or situation. Trinity truly, genuinely believes that she is otherkin. She literally believes that she is the reincarnation of the videogame character “Trinity”, and she is deeply hurt when the husband is dismissive of that belief. Now, you can say that the otherkin plot is just a metaphor for something else - but this is where it’s important to tread carefully, because otherkin and trans identity are not at all analogous. Comparisons between the two are highly problematic. On the one hand, you have ‘attack helicopter’ jokes and garbage like that - but it’s also known that otherkin (and otherkin-related) subcultures feature more trans/nonbinary membership than in the general population. This indicates a cultural connection. Otherkin, as a sort of ‘internet religion’, is highly inclusive to people with different identities (for fairly obvious reasons, I would say). And this is indeed what we’re shown in Matrix 4. None of the hero characters are (openly) trans, but they are all of various races and sexualities, all united in their belief that the Matrix videogames are nonfiction. Their leader, a black bisexual woman, is literally a character from the videogame universe. The basic fantasy is of going online and being friends with the reincarnation of Morpheus from the Matrix movies, and also a magical bird named Kujaku. No Mods No Masters posted:I feel like this whole conversation needs to have people distinguish between the OT where the megacity thing is at least arguable and matrix 4 where it's definitely not, they're just living in san francisco. In addition to this, there’s already a huge gap between Matrix 1 and Matrix 2/3. Matrix 1 says that our world is a simulation, and presents a hyperreal version of 1999 that’s only slightly ‘off’. The only major departures, at the start, are the software company “Metacortex”, and the existence of a world-famous terrorist named Morpheus. This is the world where the machines have near-perfectly simulated all life on Earth, down to the individual DNA molecules in a strawberry. In the sequels, you have fake billboards advertising the abstract concept of Steak, the action takes place in a single 2000mi.2 map, and Oracle’s dialogue implies the world is flat. It’s explicitly a lovely videogame where raindrops aren’t even the right shape. There’s no way to ‘objectively’ reconcile these two perspectives; they stand for a subjective shift. So, when we get to Matrix 4, the reveal actually makes a degree of sense: Matrix 2 and 3 are, rather definitively, “ingame footage” from Tom Anderson’s videogames, while the status of Matrix 1 remains slightly ambiguous. So: Matrix 4 carefully avoids this issue, but the trilogy now retroactively has an unreliable narrator. Matrixes 2 and 3 - at least- are now films depicting videogames based on Neo’s memories of events he very often wasn’t around to see. So: Ferrinus posted:No, he's not talking about psychic 'energy'. He's talking about literal energy, measured in joules or calories, as might be delivered a battery AKA a "coppertop". The analyst is actually talking about how humans are made to serve machines. What you're saying is in plain contradiction with the films as they stand. Earlier you said that the electricity crackling around Neo and Trinity as they used "The One" powers to destroy their restraints was a magical aura actually emanating from the humans' palms or something, but the Matrix is a science fiction film. You might be getting mixed up because I am talking about multiple different interpretations of multiple films about bizarre subjective experiences. ‘Real-world’ Neo and Trinity have unique ‘supernatural’ powers in Matrix 4, which they did not have in prior films. This is unexplained, but is presumably related to the rebuilding process. They also age at 1/3 the normal rate, and their muscles haven’t atrophied despite their having sat comatose for several decades. (This is if we ignore that the hand-explosion bit is some sort of vision/flashback, and did not necessarily actually happen.) You are definitely confusing this film with other films; Analyst refers simply to an ‘energy’ that strengthens reality, and doesn’t say anything about joules or calories. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 07:38
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You might be getting mixed up because I am talking about multiple different interpretations of multiple films about bizarre subjective experiences. This is just flatly wrong, and I don't get why you're taking this angle because we both have the transcript in front of us. There's nothing about the energy machines harvest "strengthening reality". The analyst follows up the line you quoted in your previous post with another about productivity quotas. What's he producing? "Reality?" Dick Cheney (or one of his aides, I forget) also bragged about being in the reality industry, but that was a means of collecting imperial superprofits, not fooling people because there's simply nothing more important to him and his ilk than the fantasies playing out in peoples' heads. None of the characters have magic powers, but Neo (though apparently only in some kind of concert with Trinity) has the psychic power of machine empathy. He used it to short circuit some sentinels at the end of Reloaded. This is not the same as the energy (no quotation marks) the machines need to survive, because that's actually energy, the kind that fuels computer servers.
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Jan 8, 2022 07:55
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moths posted:I think that's why more filmmakers try to make the most important themes central and accessible. Lmao
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Jan 8, 2022 08:39
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appropriatemetaphor posted:Was Neo's new power getting people to pull their punches? I swear there was a bit where Elon Smith was "punching" him but clearly missing by at least a foot. Neo's power is getting people's asses in theaters to make money.
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Jan 8, 2022 09:18
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