|
Given Moths whole thing, where I said that trans stories would be completely illegible to parts of the audience and was told that was a bougie assumption is a solid laugh.SuperMechagodzilla posted:It’s not an either/or situation. Trinity truly, genuinely believes that she is otherkin. She literally believes that she is the reincarnation of the videogame character “Trinity”, and she is deeply hurt when the husband is dismissive of that belief. What is your basis for any of this? Shiroc fucked around with this message at 09:32 on Jan 8, 2022 |
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 09:28
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 16:59 |
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:It’s not an either/or situation. Trinity truly, genuinely believes that she is otherkin. She literally believes that she is the reincarnation of the videogame character “Trinity”, and she is deeply hurt when the husband is dismissive of that belief. That's the read I arrived at as well. The husband was right to dismiss her belief because, to the outside world within the movie, Trinity's then-current body looked absolutely nothing like Carrie-Ann Moss. And in that version of the Matrix where the events of the earlier movies were video games, she might as well told her husband she was Sephiroth. The movie frames it as the husband being in the wrong, because he doesn't see Trinity as the audience or Neo does... the 2 parties that are able to peer in from outside the simulation. Man, the more I think about this movie the more I feel like I should be retracting my earlier post about being positive about this thing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 11:56
|
|
|
VROOM VROOM posted:It was very reasonable for Neo's boss to ask him to be on time for work IMO
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 12:15
|
|
|
Archer666 posted:That's the read I arrived at as well. The husband was right to dismiss her belief because, to the outside world within the movie, Trinity's then-current body looked absolutely nothing like Carrie-Ann Moss. And in that version of the Matrix where the events of the earlier movies were video games, she might as well told her husband she was Sephiroth. The movie frames it as the husband being in the wrong, because he doesn't see Trinity as the audience or Neo does... the 2 parties that are able to peer in from outside the simulation. I feel that if dysphoria was referenced using the allegory of feeling like a specific video game character in pretty much any other movie people would rightly be pissed . It's not "I identify as an attack helicopter" but it's pretty drat close .
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 13:01
|
|
|
Are you all just ignoring the context now? Basic reading of the text tells us everything we need to know, regardless of what happened in prior films. This movie is not subtle. And what the hell goons, it's super messed up suggesting this kind of "I am Sephiroth" otherkin read is a legitimate avenue of analysis here. Reducing the film's messaging wrt Trinity's crisis down to that is insensitive as hell and it's a huge loving bummer.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 14:04
|
|
|
Shiroc posted:Given Moths whole thing, where I said that trans stories would be completely illegible to parts of the audience and was told that was a bougie assumption is a solid laugh. Yeah this read (to me) more like having extreme and laughable cult beliefs scoffed at. Like telling your family you're going to Dallas to meet JFK Jr, you possess a Kitsune soul, alien ghosts are real and the root of our problems, the deep state's pizza shop child ranch. And the root of that is the haphazard Tarot card deck use of symbolism, concept, and motifs in the Matrix. Characters are archetypes: The One, The Architect, The Analyst, the Tower, The Oracle, Morpheus, the men in black. It's a Major Arcana spread that leans too heavily on the viewer's experiences to fill gaps. My experience overlaps completely with the husband's in how I read this scenario. He's 100% absolutely losing someone's he loves to mental illness. And it felt gross and weird that the film celebrated that. The narrative sides with the delusional person, and treats her preposterous notion a solemn truth. I specifically remembered your frustration with the cult / Qanon stuff, and my own frustration at being told that was a hateful read. You filled the gaps and saw your own experience reflected, and came away with a meaningful experience. I did the same thing and saw a film condemning therapy, encouraging people to go off-meds, reject their families and support network, and to trust their inner crazy voice over concerned loved ones even if it means dying. And trying to explain this is really loving challenging because of the obviously intended trans read. Lana portrays the judgment and machinations of being wrongly treated as a "crazy person," but leaves it vague enough that some really dangerous ideas can coast on its coattails. Everyone who didn't agree with your "truth" and saw it as a delusion, was a fake person. They are all deep-state actors, sheeple, or NPCs. They are literally fueled by your misery and their lives don't matter. I'm old. I've lost people to cult beliefs, suicide, mental illness, substance abuse, and delusional beliefs. In that cafe scene, I saw Neo enabling Trinity to choose his brand of weirdness over her family, reality, and the world. That's not the intended read, but that's how it lands for me. There's just as much or more, context supporting it. Sorry kids, Mommy's got robots and conspiracies to fight. This schlub is actually the hero from your video games, and he's also my new partner. There was a prophecy and I can fly now. No time for details, you're not real people anyway. E: tl;dr is that I take issue with the presentation that an unpleasant reality is a prison to be escaped rather than a malleable thing to improve. Speaking as someone who has lived the aftermath of "escape attempts," it feels irresponsible to encourage that over asking for help. moths fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jan 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 14:14
|
|
|
teagone posted:Are you all just ignoring the context now? Basic reading of the text tells us everything we need to know, regardless of what happened in prior films. This movie is not subtle. And what the hell goons, it's super messed up suggesting this kind of "I am Sephiroth" otherkin read is a legitimate avenue of analysis here. Reducing the film's messaging wrt Trinity's crisis down to that is insensitive as hell and it's a huge loving bummer. It's not a 'basic reading' of the text, it's just the text. In The Matrix Resurrections 'Trinity' is known as a popular video game character to the point of having merchandise of her widely available. Trinity - who to the other characters' eyes looks nothing like the game character - says she thinks she is that character and her husband laughs at her. It's an insulting allegory for dysphoria, but I'm willing to bet it's simply because the script is a bit half-assed rather than because of any malicious intent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 14:16
|
|
|
Necrothatcher posted:It's not a 'basic reading' of the text, it's just the text. Have you never identified with a fictional character? Are you under the impression that is just a thing some sort of weird otherkin does?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 14:18
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:Have you never identified with a fictional character? Are you under the impression that is just a thing some sort of weird otherkin does? If someone I knew said they thought they were a video game character I'd be very worried.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 14:21
|
|
|
It's the difference between "I feel like that guy from the movie" and "You feel that because you are literally Cary Grant's character in North by Northwest."
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 14:24
|
|
|
Actually, to be fair to the movie Trinity just asks Chad if she "looks like" the game character.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 14:44
|
|
|
teagone posted:Are you all just ignoring the context now? Basic reading of the text tells us everything we need to know, regardless of what happened in prior films. This movie is not subtle. And what the hell goons, it's super messed up suggesting this kind of "I am Sephiroth" otherkin read is a legitimate avenue of analysis here. Reducing the film's messaging wrt Trinity's crisis down to that is insensitive as hell and it's a huge loving bummer. Yeah I've got to bail from this thread, I'll just say I personally connected with how she felt and thought it was very obvious what the movie was going for and this reduction actual does hurt
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 15:05
|
|
|
Necrothatcher posted:It's not a 'basic reading' of the text, it's just the text. Even suggesting that there could've been malicious intent behind the messaging is kinda messed up dude. Hinging this argument on Trinity identifying with a video game character is such a weak take. Living in an oppressive society that upholds standards over what is believed to be proper and normal — a "society" that Trinity's husband is part of — that makes someone in this particular situation feel like they can't be themselves is the most fundamental read. I don't understand how art speaking so deeply to someone in this way could be considered insulting. Because said art is a merchandised videogame character? That's really just surface engagement with the text at best, and ignores the more meaningful point of comparison.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 15:08
|
|
|
Trinity isn't Luigi. Clearly she is Funky Kong
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 15:11
|
|
|
Necrothatcher posted:If someone I knew said they thought they were a video game character I'd be very worried. You’d be worried or you’d mock and belittle them?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 15:11
|
|
|
Owlofcreamcheese posted:You’d be worried or you’d mock and belittle them? If my friend asked if they looked like a video game character. I would laugh.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 15:36
|
|
|
Let's all just ignore this radical idea that art breeds empathy, and can be used to heal and process emotions like sadness or grief, or I dunno, loneliness and rejection and the feeling of not being accepted for who you are. Yeah, let's just engage with art on the surface instead because it's easier to get them LOLs that way.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 15:46
|
|
|
teagone posted:Let's all just ignore this radical idea that art breeds empathy, and can be used to heal and process emotions like sadness or grief, or I dunno, loneliness and rejection and the feeling of not being accepted for who you are. Yeah, let's just engage with art on the surface instead because it's easier to get them LOLs that way. I mean, of course, but the question was if you would laugh if your friend told you that they are a video game character. If my friend turned to me and said, I think I am Trinity. Or -- a more salient point, if my wife told me that she really thinks she is Trinity, I'd try to laugh it off too. Imagine if your life partner turned their laptop to you and said this is who they think they are: 
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 16:16
|
|
|
The issue isn’t whether Tiffany is justified in thinking she might be Trinity - obviously we know that in the context of the movie she is. The issue is whether it’s callous for her spouse to laugh when she suggests she looks like Trinity. This argument started when people were questioning whether it was right for Trinity to abandon her family, and the justification was given that Chad was bad because he had done that. But by any standard it’s not particularly cruel to laugh when your spouse suggests she looks like a video game character she demonstrably looks nothing like. That question, alone, would not be taken by anyone as a serious suggestion that the asker was actually really that character in a different world, nor for that matter an actual sign of mental delusion, nor a sign of body dysmorphia. If an allegorical point was being made then it should have been done better.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 16:25
|
|
|
I can't tell if Trinity was supposed to be having her DSI manipulated like Neo so she looked like someone else to everyone else. It that Thomas Anderson had maybe been obsessing on this woman from afar and designed her into his game. But then his friend/handler seemed to recognise her too? Also scenes from 'the game' were shown as looking like The Matrix movie so it wasn't like 1999 graphics.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 16:30
|
|
|
Shiroc posted:What is your basis for any of this? Tumblr! Otherkin may not be as mainstream as furry fandom, but is nonetheless very well-documented. Being a sort of internet religion, the whole thing is online - and an implicit point is that you need to do art and write stories to express your inner spirit. Of course, otherkin isn’t a monolith; there’s disagreement within the religion over wherever fiction-kin are sufficiently nonhuman to qualify as ‘other’, for example. Some otherkin exclude shapeshifters. I’m just using “otherkin” as a umbrella term that includes fiction-kin, vampires, therians, etc., for simplicity. Here’s an otherkin person explaining the situation: “Otherkin identities are spiritual and/or psychological only. [...] There is no component of choice in being otherkin. ... Which means each of us must find a way to reconcile this involuntary identity with our existing beliefs about the world around us, leading to a variety of conflicting explanations.” This is precisely the rebel belief system in the film, and is in keeping with all the religious imagery across the series. There are otherkin who identify as the spirit of the wind, or the sunset, which is what Oracle describes in Episode 2: “There are programs running all over the place. The ones doing their job, doing what they were meant to do, are invisible. [...] Every story you’ve ever heard about vampires, werewolves, or aliens is the system assimilating some program that’s doing something they’re not supposed to be doing.” So, in Episode 2, the explanation for many otherkin (and related identities) is that errors in the matrix system cause abstract ‘spiritual’ concepts to gain human embodiment. Seraph is known as “the angel without wings”.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 16:35
|
|
|
Comrade Fakename posted:The issue isn’t whether Tiffany is justified in thinking she might be Trinity - obviously we know that in the context of the movie she is. The issue is whether it’s callous for her spouse to laugh when she suggests she looks like Trinity. This argument started when people were questioning whether it was right for Trinity to abandon her family, and the justification was given that Chad was bad because he had done that. The way she performed the scene made it seem like there was more to it than that. Like if the husband was just like "lol sure okay" she might not have even noticed but her delivery made it come off more like there was an implied "you think you have any kind of use or ability or anything at all? You don't, gently caress you." More like a final nail in the coffin of that relationship than her making a huge leap from that to her actually being Trinity. Like clearly she was effected by that conversation way more than a typical "lol [charactername] looks/doesn't look like you" exchange.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 16:40
|
|
|
Neo Rasa posted:The way she performed the scene made it seem like there was more to it than that. Like if the husband was just like "lol sure okay" she might not have even noticed but her delivery made it come off more like there was an implied "you think you have any kind of use or ability or anything at all? You don't, gently caress you." More like a final nail in the coffin of that relationship than her making a huge leap from that to her actually being Trinity. Like clearly she was effected by that conversation way more than a typical "lol [charactername] looks/doesn't look like you" exchange. You are doing a huge amount of heavy lifting here to justify a reading. This isn’t the “final nail”, it’s literally the only thing that could be interpreted as bad that Chad does. I think it’s possible this was the intended implication by the writers, but if they actually wanted to suggest that, they should have put it in the movie.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 16:52
|
|
|
I liked the first half and thought the second half was... just okay. My biggest "plot hole" thing was that the machines just... don't... guard Neo and Trinity? Both escapes there's not a single machine actively trying to stop them in the "real world." I guess maybe this was when they cut the Morpheus/giant bot fight and replaced it with the (very strange) "do Internet surgery on Trinity so Bugs can be a Trinity strobe-light so Trinity can get out alive," uh... I don't even know what to call it. Plot? Still, kinda strange that they couldn't spare a single sentinel to guard the two most important humans in the Matrix. When Neo gets awakened again and Sea Baby saves him from the pod I thought for sure these were special machines that just tended Neo and Trinity's pods, and whenever anyone managed to wake them they snatched em up and took em for mind-wiping/reprocessing/something before sticking them back in the pod and they'd fly him over the pod fields to deepen his hopelessness and despair at how badly his revolution had failed before they stuck him back in the pod so he'd generate even more power. Turns out that nope, rebel machines can just waltz right up to the nuclear power plant and steal the plutonium. Makes me think of John Conner invading the machine city by himself in Terminator: Salvation. As long as they don't have any security, at all, you've got this John!
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 16:53
|
|
|
Comrade Fakename posted:You are doing a huge amount of heavy lifting here to justify a reading. This isn’t the “final nail”, it’s literally the only thing that could be interpreted as bad that Chad does. I think it’s possible this was the intended implication by the writers, but if they actually wanted to suggest that, they should have put it in the movie. Nah it's how I immediately took the scene as it happened when I saw it, and with how little Chad is even around in the movie we only have Trinity to really go by. If she didn't already some kind of "something is off with my family" feeling about her life at the minimum nothing Neo brought up would have effected her. But I agree, as much as I loved this movie Trinity should have been the primary character in it instead of Neo after the first act. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jan 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 16:55
|
|
|
Comrade Fakename posted:You are doing a huge amount of heavy lifting here to justify a reading. This isn’t the “final nail”, it’s literally the only thing that could be interpreted as bad that Chad does. I think it’s possible this was the intended implication by the writers, but if they actually wanted to suggest that, they should have put it in the movie. The scene is entirely reliant on Moss' performance to convey that the Offscreen Chad Videogame Incident was an encapsulation of all her frustration and dissatisfaction with marriage and childrearing, and also the point where she decided that she loves Tom Anderson because he instantly understood her on a 'deeply spiritual level'. And, honestly, she pulls it off. It's just that the concept is very silly. Like, literally, the handshake unlocks something in her and she turns into a videogame.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 17:01
|
|
|
Ichabod Tane posted:I mean, of course, but the question was if you would laugh if your friend told you that they are a video game character. The question was have you ever idenfitied with a fictional character, which is a reasonable question because it is an unschockingly common thing to do. And to be honest, the willingness to align your views with the opposite side of that dialogue, with Chad's position, when the film literally reveals that Chad is a bot who is programmed to enforce "societal standards" really sucks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 17:07
|
|
|
Ichabod Tane posted:Imagine if your life partner turned their laptop to you and said this is who they think they are: Also, this constant need to belittle Trinity's crisis in such a reductive way because the film didn't better represent certain real-life aspects in whatever way one might've felt it should have is pretty hosed up. That, and using such a reductive example as the crux of this stupid argument basically ignores narrative context and misses the point anyways. Ima just peace out of this thread, because some of these takes are just grossly lacking too much heart for me. teagone fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jan 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 17:19
|
|
|
I'm honestly not sure where the big opposition is here between otherkin and trans people? I know a lot of trans people who kin this or that character, it's not like the terms are interchangeable or anything but they can co-occur. As far the movie goes, the Smith who discovers he is Morpheus seems like the clearest example, the way he learns about himself by watching the Matrix movies. And the way he embodies his understanding of Morpheus playfully, relishing opportunities for camp, reminds me most of the kinnies I've actually met, who emerge from fanfic and roleplay scenes, often constructing "personal canons" for their kins. The original story acts as a jumping point for self-invention. Not to say this is the truth of otherkin, if there is such a thing, but it's what I'm familiar with mmmmalo fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jan 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 17:36
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:The scene is entirely reliant on Moss' performance to convey that the Offscreen Chad Videogame Incident was an encapsulation of all her frustration and dissatisfaction with marriage and childrearing, and also the point where she decided that she loves Tom Anderson because he instantly understood her on a 'deeply spiritual level'. This I very much agree with, but I think the film also hopes the audience will assume that Trinity's life in the Matrix is a mirror of the life Neo has that we spend a lot more time observing - full of little grotesqueries that are invisible as trauma inducing because that are poking at a suppressed identity that she is only marginally aware of.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 17:37
|
|
|
moths posted:
It’s a fake awful reality that the two main characters set out to improve for everyone at the end.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 18:22
|
|
|
This thread feels really bizarre on a couple of levels right now... Like I think Teagone is doing a good job of explaining the scene is really straightforward and the weird goal posts and analogies people have created to make this scene somehow bizarre is weird. It's just hard for me to imagine someone watching that scene on a surface level and have the issues you're implying are present. The thing is I don't really disagree with Moths that Resurrections isn't very good. I found it very fun and liked watching it, but the action is a huge bummer and the film explores a lot of interesting ideas without a lot of cohesion. I think that there is still this fundamental issue of rejecting gender or queer criticism in this thread though that is a bit more upsetting. The reason that you can apply a feminist, class based, and colonial critiques to any movie is because those lenses are centered on systems of power that are so prevalent in our society (Capital, the gender binary, the patriarchy, White Supremacy, etc) that its hard for any work of literature to not either challenge those systems or uphold those systems, intentionally or not. I think that The Matrix as a queer allegory has been presented in a poor way by the internet. People think of it in terms of there being a secret code of what the movie is REALLY about. When it's more that when you apply a gender or queer lens to The Matrix as well as Resurrections, you actually start to engage in some interesting ideas and insights. As someone who came back to the movie after transitioning, it was actually a pretty helpful experience in naming my experience. Yes, part of that is because the creators are actively working through some of those feelings, but you can also apply a queer or gender lens to anything just like a class based lens. I'm going through the old Disney animated movies, and it's not that Ariel or Belle are secretly trans or queer--they're literally not in the movie besides both being willing to gently caress people outside of their species. It's just that when you approach the films with that lens, the movie resonates with you in a different way. But if you go to SMG's post, what is frustrating is that SMG's good posts actually do present good class based critiques of movies. But his last big post isn't criticism at all. It's the opposite. It's actively shutting down queer or gender based reads of the film by surfacing fringe internet culture and nitpicking the fact that Neo and Trinity are CIS--even though the films have always presented the pair purposefully in a way that demonstrates how the lines between gender can be blurred. And I don't even disagree with SMG talking about Otherkin poo poo and relating it to The Matrix. The issue is using it as a bludgeon to shut up other readings just like earlier in the thread when he was trying to argue gender based readings because he has a class based critique. Instead of seeing discussions of queerness or trans politics in The Matrix as the application of a critical lens though, it's us trans folks applying our FEELINGS to things. We're not being critical thinkers, we're being emotional and bringing our own baggage in. And then on top of that, the moments in the story that we relate to cannot possibly be shared or experienced by people who are not in our small group. It's just all pretty lovely.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 19:22
|
|
|
teagone posted:The question was have you ever idenfitied with a fictional character, which is a reasonable question because it is an unschockingly common thing to do. And to be honest, the willingness to align your views with the opposite side of that dialogue, with Chad's position, when the film literally reveals that Chad is a bot who is programmed to enforce "societal standards" really sucks. There’s a very big difference between “identifying with” and “identifying as”. Tiffany identifies with the Trinity character in that particular scene, but increasingly identifies as the character as the film progresses. I don’t believe anyone is a being dismissive of ‘middle-aged women going through some kind of personal crisis’ aspect, but they are being critical of the recourse to new agey spirituality as a solution to the crisis.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 19:51
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Yes, part of that is because the creators are actively working through some of those feelings, but you can also apply a queer or gender lens to anything just like a class based lens. I'm going through the old Disney animated movies, and it's not that Ariel or Belle are secretly trans or queer--they're literally not in the movie besides both being willing to gently caress people outside of their species. It's just that when you approach the films with that lens, the movie resonates with you in a different way. This was a good post. Also highlighting this bit because I had loved Beauty and the Beast as a kid and I watched it for the first time since transition over the holidays. The whole dynamic of Belle and the townspeople is funny for how well it vibes with a queer feminist reading. Almost everyone desperate to identify that she's weird but not actually caring about her as a person, not fitting into their expectations, she should just get married, pop out kids, do the woman role. Gaston is like every man trying to push themselves into your life when you don't like men at all turning into full reaction. Then Belle and Beast having a slight disaster lesbian dynamic where all of the furniture needing to explain they are both clearly into each other but someone needs to make a loving move. e: I wasn't really asking about what an Otherkin is, I was more asking about you assigning tons of random internality to the characters based on a marginal internet thing. Then you go 'well it would be problematic to directly parallel this to trans experience but also there are tons of trans otherkins (?) so maybe parallel it *wink*.' e2: Given that Resurrections is not standalone and is a continuation of the story of the previous movies, the idea of the machines stealing Neo and Trinity's actual identities and commodifying them in such a way that any time they start to remember or assert who they really are is treated as insane is an utter horror. Shiroc fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jan 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 20:42
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:Instead of seeing discussions of queerness or trans politics in The Matrix as the application of a critical lens though, it's us trans folks applying our FEELINGS to things. We're not being critical thinkers, we're being emotional and bringing our own baggage in. And then on top of that, the moments in the story that we relate to cannot possibly be shared or experienced by people who are not in our small group. I really hope this isn't how I'm coming across. I'd hope that everybody in the thread can agree that as a film, Resurrections has a lot of blanks. This is intentional. Many of the big characters have vague, evocative titles for names. A lot of important elements are left unsaid and implied things in important exchanges. The expected main action of the story is vague and hand-wavey. So the film's just left as a series of dots. If you mentally connect those dots one way, you get a great story about realizing your own identity. A lot of people did, and a lot of them ITT and elsewhere are openly trans or queer. I think most people looked at this and were just like "WTF are all these dots?" and got a lackluster action movie that didn't make much sense. it's just as easy (easier for me) to connect them in a way that the film is a cautionary tale against mental health. Improving your life is foolish and the only relief is a self-destructive escape into delusion or complete annihilation. I don't think Lana is against mental health. I think it's an unfortunate byproduct of the story she tried to tell. I applied my experiences, just like the people who got a boring scribble, and just like the viewers who saw a deeply personal and supportive story that resonated with them. None of these experiences are invalid, but Resurrections' message only seems to work if you're predisposed to "get it." A better film would have numbered the dots, given the audience guidance on how to put it together. There's a lot of powerful images, concepts, and archetypes in a heap on the table. Some people intuitively knew how to assemble them, others saw a lot of troubling connections, but I think most people just saw it as an unstructured mess.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 21:22
|
|
|
There's a basic sequencing difference behind the typical "otherkin" experience and what happens to Trinity in the movie. It's not "wow, I feel a kinship with this character", it's, "wait, this character is obviously based on me, to the point that she even looks like me." The closest modern example is Bad Art Friend. Some sort of sensible conservative version of Trinity wouldn't be like "it's ridiculous to even entertain this notion, I shall banish it from my mind" but rather "woah, that game dev who goes to my coffee shop is a real creep."
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 21:29
|
|
|
moths posted:I really hope this isn't how I'm coming across. This has not a thing to do with the film and is 100% on you and your pov
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 21:32
|
|
|
moths posted:I really hope this isn't how I'm coming across. If the movie had decided to be very, very explicitly trans, a true and common story that included all of the institutional gatekeeping, hostility from therapists, medical professionals, absolutely ridiculous misogyny and hostility from the general public would probably also read as paranoid to someone who doesn't already know the experiences. Its why every complaint about how hosed up things are for women, queer people, racial minorities (and leftists) is always met with claims of exaggeration if not outright lying.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 21:34
|
|
|
I feel like this recent piece on Slate says everything I feel about the movie but a lot more eloquently: https://slate.com/culture/2022/01/matrix-resurrections-explained-lana-wachowskis-sense8.html
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 21:36
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 16:59 |
|
|
CelticPredator posted:This has not a thing to do with the film and is 100% on you and your pov I'm saying the film leans entirely on its audience to apply their own POV. Shiroc posted:If the movie had decided to be very, very explicitly trans, a true and common story that included all of the institutional gatekeeping, hostility from therapists, medical professionals, absolutely ridiculous misogyny and hostility from the general public would probably also read as paranoid to someone who doesn't already know the experiences. Its why every complaint about how hosed up things are for women, queer people, racial minorities (and leftists) is always met with claims of exaggeration if not outright lying. And this very much explains why. Thank you. E: Would you say they succeeded at this in the first film? I feel like they did, and I didn't realize how tricky a needle that was to thread. moths fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 8, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2022 21:42
|
|