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If you went from a i7-920 with a 1070 to a 3600 with a 1070, that's not just a CPU upgrade. That's a CPU, RAM, storage, PCIe, everything except GPU upgrade. X58 was an amazing platform when new but you're describing a massive computer modernization. Of course your minimum FPS went up lol
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Jan 9, 2022 20:15
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My anecdote was just from changing out the 2700x for a 5950x and the result was very noticeable in every game I have tried, so far (Chivalry 2, Dota 2, Civilization 6, 7 Days to Die, and Heroes of the Storm). E: I did upgrade the BIOS and overclocked the memory from 2933 to 3666 (2700x wasn't stable at anything over 2933) and had to redo my fan curves, but everything else was the same Kibner fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 9, 2022 |
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Jan 9, 2022 20:28
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forest spirit posted:Are you guys posting over each other? I think OP's point was that a better CPU matters more than the other poster thinks they do? I took "other posters" to be a reaction against the board, general consensus that GPU > CPU and most gamers should spend more on the GPU & update it more frequently. Overall GPU budget is probably 3-5x what your CPU budget is, when summed up over multiple upgrades. By that general consensus your i7 with a 1070 was an unbalanced system that really needed a CPU update. (Desperately so post-meltdown.) I'm not saying you were dumb to put that GPU in that system, in whatever circumstance you were in it might have made sense. But I'd hope if you asked the PC build thread or anyone else with sense they'd tell you that you needed a CPU upgrade because your 1070 was going to be bottlenecked badly. Arzachel posted:I'm fairly certain anyone posting here isn't those people I still have a 60hz monitor  (A decent VFR monitor would be one of the better upgrades I could do for myself, I know it. But I'm kinda picky about monitors and kinda hate to just throw the one I have away.)
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Jan 9, 2022 20:45
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Ryzen 2000 to 5000 can be meaningful because 5000 was a good increase, but to be fair you also greatly bumped up your RAM so that will also be a significant part of the perceptible speed boost (it's like a small platform upgrade and I would be disappointed if it didn't affect a thing  ).
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Jan 9, 2022 20:47
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Are the 1% and .1% lows usually due to stuff like cache misses?
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Jan 9, 2022 21:07
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If, like me, you are looking forward to socketed Ryzen 6000 parts, it would not be wise to hold your breath:quote:AMD's APUs traditionally debut in laptops first then come to desktop PCs roughly a year later. AMD whittled that transition to desktops down to a record four months with Cezanne, so I asked if we should expect a similar cadence with Rembrandt.
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Jan 9, 2022 21:10
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I’m jizzin’ for Ryzen!
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Jan 9, 2022 21:13
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we were all jizzin for ryzen until 12th gen came out. wait for amd to respond before depleting ur precious cum reserves
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Jan 9, 2022 21:14
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mdxi posted:If, like me, you are looking forward to socketed Ryzen 6000 parts, it would not be wise to hold your breath: So AM5 will really be DDR5-only, huh? I hope it's ready.
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Jan 9, 2022 21:17
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A different tier of CPU, but to give my own anecdote, my i5 6400 was holding back my GTX 970 more than I thought. I upgraded to a 11600K. In some games I've gained just a few extra fps, but across the board lows are much higher, and frame times are more consistent. And in some cases I've practically doubled the frame rate. Old game but the difference was particularly stark in Far Cry 3. I could not get a locked 60 at 1440p no matter how much I lowered the graphics before. Now it flies past 80 or 90 at ultra. There were also some games that ran okay but would have moments where the performance would completely tank for a second. That's entirely gone.
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Jan 9, 2022 22:15
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magical cache
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Jan 9, 2022 22:18
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I should mention that my old RAM was 2133. That may have played a part.
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Jan 9, 2022 22:20
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FuturePastNow posted:If you went from a i7-920 with a 1070 to a 3600 with a 1070, that's not just a CPU upgrade. That's a CPU, RAM, storage, PCIe, everything except GPU upgrade. X58 was an amazing platform when new but you're describing a massive computer modernization. Of course your minimum FPS went up lol doy oh yeah for real. My 3600 to the 5000x3D whatever is a better comparison, or like the other comparisons made Klyith posted:By that general consensus your i7 with a 1070 was an unbalanced system that really needed a CPU update. (Desperately so post-meltdown.) I'm not saying you were dumb to put that GPU in that system, in whatever circumstance you were in it might have made sense. But I'd hope if you asked the PC build thread or anyone else with sense they'd tell you that you needed a CPU upgrade because your 1070 was going to be bottlenecked badly. I updated my i7-920 system pre-pandemic. The 1070 had been paired with it in xmas 2016, moving up from a Radeon HD7970. Two years later I slotted in a Xeon X5660 from eBay. I think that's a reasonable system for 2018 I did not buy an overpriced 1070 to slot into a first gen i7 during the pandemic lol. In early 2020 I built a new system with a 3600/2080 super base. Stepped up to a 3080 in December that year.
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Jan 9, 2022 22:48
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Rinkles posted:I should mention that my old RAM was 2133. That may have played a part. 2133 was the highest a 6400 could run, so not really. Your problem was that a 6400 was pretty mediocre as a gaming CPU even when it came out. And then it got worse. Those generations were the height of Intel taking max profit because AMD had nothing. If you were a gamer you were supposed to spend the extra $50 on a K series. The i5-6000s and 7000s had unusually short lifespans due to a confluence of circumstances: • 4 cores with no hyperthreading, games that needed more than 4 threads started coming out 3-4 years later • meltdown mitigations made them perform worse • offensive levels of product segmentation That's why I was saying the 6700K is the exception that proves the rule. If it had hyperthreading it would be usable in modern games, still not great, but ok for someone with budget limitations. e: forest spirit posted:I updated my i7-920 system pre-pandemic. The 1070 had been paired with it in xmas 2016, moving up from a Radeon HD7970. Two years later I slotted in a Xeon X5660 from eBay. A whole lot of crazy moves can make total sense for an individual, and yet go against the general guidelines. Klyith fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 9, 2022 |
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Jan 9, 2022 23:13
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I'm seriously considering a jump from a 3600X to a 5800X3D or whatever they're calling it, depending on pricing and timing. Outside simple framerate stuff, part of my thinking is that it would give me more headroom for stuff outside of whatever game I'm running at a given time. Like having TPM on, or memory isolation, or stuff like that. After Windows 11 came out I decided to perversely replicate the security requirements on my main Windows 10 install, and found I got relatively frequent significant impacts from them. It manifested in things like stuttering in games, Bluetooth audio cutting out for a second here and there, and some other effects. I run a pretty stripped-down Windows install, with not much else running but Steam and the game I am playing, so it was a little easier to isolate. I figure moar cores, higher IPC, and more throughput might not just lift the floor of my FPS, but also leave some power on the table to be able to run extra things without getting stutters or other glitchy things in my performance in general. I'm not 100% certain and I'm sure I will dither, but my plan since building this machine was to probably do a CPU upgrade at the end of AM4.
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Jan 9, 2022 23:31
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The 6700K and 7700K both had hyperthreading, they were 4 cores and 8 threads. The entire range from sandy-bridge to kaby-lake were 4c8t on their i7 offerings. When I upgraded from 6700K to 5600X while using a 6800XT, I saw significant improvements to performance across the board
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Jan 9, 2022 23:50
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quote:"One of the dynamics that we do think about a great deal is how and when to introduce that AM5 ecosystem and ensure that the DDR5 supply, as well as pricing of DDR5 memory, is mature and something that's easily attainable for an end-user," he continued.
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Jan 9, 2022 23:54
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:The 6700K and 7700K both had hyperthreading, they were 4 cores and 8 threads. The entire range from sandy-bridge to kaby-lake were 4c8t on their i7 offerings. Daw gently caress, misremembered the model numbers!  Well that was a bunch of extra words I could have skipped to say: telling someone a 6700K is ok to keep using, if they have budget limits and need the most bang/buck upgrades, is fine. You had a bunch of performance improvements from an upgrade, but if you'd had the 4/4 6600K you wouldn't be talking about the 1% lows. The 6600K has games that it will have max FPS into the 40s. That is a night/day difference! OTOH if someone told you to get that 6800XT GPU and not worry about the CPU, they were wrong and misled you. I would have said to take a step down and think about / save for a full system overhaul, depending on the budget available.
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Jan 10, 2022 00:03
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Yeah I had a 7700k, it poo poo itself in shadow of the tomb raider pretty badly, a 9900k does that game a lot better. IIRC it was approaching something like 3x the 95% frame rate improvement in the benchmark. Far Cry 3/4/5/etc on the other hand, practically no difference when isolating CPU, all single core/IPC and that isn't all that different from the 7700k to the 9900k.
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Jan 10, 2022 00:16
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Combat Pretzel posted:What the hell does this business speak mean, anyway? If the DDR5 shortage happens to drag into H2, the release gets pushed back?
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Jan 10, 2022 00:52
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necrobobsledder posted:It means they're antsy about DDR5 and when to release AM5 in its lifecycle, so yeah if DDR5 supply is meager they may have to push release out. If DDR5 supply is the bottleneck it's hard to tell if the CPU is the issue for consumers or if it's something entirely out of AMD's control. This is something that they kind of have to tell investors about given it determines when they'll make their big expected numbers and all that jazz. Yeah, not to mention it seems like it might be hard to get board manufacturers to be enthusiastic if there is no RAM to go on the motherboards. Except maybe ASRock who would probably put out an AM5 board running DDR3 if the thought occurred to them. Putting out CPUs on a new socket without motherboards or memory available doesn't seem like a great idea. CaptainSarcastic fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Jan 10, 2022 |
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Jan 10, 2022 01:02
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Combat Pretzel posted:What the hell does this business speak mean, anyway? If the DDR5 shortage happens to drag into H2, the release gets pushed back? "we want a scapegoat for any delays in our products"
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Jan 10, 2022 03:07
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Combat Pretzel posted:What the hell does this business speak mean, anyway? If the DDR5 shortage happens to drag into H2, the release gets pushed back? it means Intel beat them to the punch so instead of saying "wow, after a bunch of years of having the more feature rich platform, we are on the backfoot", you instead spin it like you are doing people a favor by not releasing a more feature rich product. Intel did the same thing with PCIe 4 lol.
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Jan 10, 2022 03:56
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Well, it makes some sense if AM5 has zero DDR4 support. Imagine if they released a DDR5-only CPU series into this current market.
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Jan 10, 2022 04:29
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I dug up the rest of the quote and it’s specifically about Rembrandt APUs on desktop, so yeah, in that context it makes much more sense. There isn’t a big rush to launch Rembrandt parts on desktop where APUs sell on value, something DDR5 offers none of at the moment. Those dies are much more useful in laptops first (like all the other APU launches). But if Zen 4 was ready, they absolutely would launch it. That’s what I thought the quote was about. My bad.
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Jan 10, 2022 07:14
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Klyith posted:
Oh I had to grab the 6800XT first, I was under pressure from rising prices. I literally watched it go up every week. I bought it when it was £850. It's £1100 now. The rest of the system got changed over on the next payday and I ate beans and noodles for a while
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Jan 10, 2022 09:06
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Reading the post about AM4 maybe sticking around and AM5 being tied to DDR5's market makes me wonder if they're hinting at hedging their bets. If DDR5 supply sucks, then just port some stuff to AM4 or whatever to keep that going?
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Jan 10, 2022 09:56
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yeah they're both talking about AM5 being as long a life as AM4, which would be impressive, but more relevantly they're not retiring AM4. dr su seemed to conceptualize it as their lower end parts. i hope i'm not naive and they finally release some lower end 5000 series parts.
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Jan 11, 2022 02:41
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My mobo died and I needed a replacement asap. Best Buy had a good Asus B550 model in the store! These days I feel actually finding electronics I'm looking for is a small victory.
AARP LARPer fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Jan 11, 2022 |
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Jan 11, 2022 03:15
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Managed to get over burnout a bit today and order parts to build some lab machines at work. I really wanted to get something more mini-ITX sized w/ 2x PCIe slots, but that's just too small / didn't want to trust a 2 x8 riser + depend on BIOS bifurcation support. ASRock makes a X570 mATX mobo, so went with that as the next best option + 5700Gs because I hate wasting a slot on a GPU. Now the trick is finding a Fractal Core 1100 in stock somewhere... seems like a great, no-frills, basic mATX case. I love the 5700G -- 8 Zen 3 cores + an iGPU for $350. Briefly thought about Alder Lake but... meh.
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Jan 11, 2022 04:38
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the iGPU on the ryzen is I think literally twice as good? Intel's are terrible. it's still not great but if you wanna rocket league or something sure
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Jan 11, 2022 05:10
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APU synchronicity. I put a 5600G in my desktop 2 days ago. The machine is a many-iterations-old thing which has mostly been made of hand-me-downs from my compute nodes. Just a couple months ago I gave it a spare B450 mobo as an upgrade from the A320 it had been running. It's mostly a coding/browsing machine, so I have it hooked up to an ultrawide monitor 3440x1440. The 3rd-gen Vega 7 in it pushes that just fine for desktop/youtube purposes. Turns out though that it was just too much to ask for gaming -- even the very light gaming that I do on this machine. Disco Elysium was running at 13-19FPS at that resolution. At least with the original RAM. I "knew" that RAM speed is everything to APUs, but there's intellectually knowing a thing and then there's experiencing that thing. The most graphically demanding game I play on this machine is Grim Dawn, so I figured everything would be fine with its inherited 3000MT/s RAM, but not so much. Also, that RAM was kinda old and wasn't stable at 3000 anymore. Had to downclock it to 2800. So... My local Best Buy had 16G of 3600 on sale for $77. I grabbed that, plugged it in, and the difference is dramatic. Disco Elysium now runs, fullscreen, in the mid-40FPS range. I had to do a bit of tweaking to get Grim Dawn both looking nice and at a non-janky framerate. I settled here  and that stays vsync'd at 60FPS. Maybe later on when DDR4 is fire-sale cheap I'll bump it to 4000MT/s sticks, but for now I'm A-OK with this.
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Jan 11, 2022 06:12
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CoolCab posted:the iGPU on the ryzen is I think literally twice as good? Intel's are terrible. it's still not great but if you wanna rocket league or something sure Lol, the only thing I need is “run the RHEL or Ubuntu installer” and then “don’t eat a PCIe slot”. Need the slots for a quad port NIC and then usually a FPGA dev board. I only wish there were more Threadripper boards with BMCs / poo poo on board GPUs, but I guess those boards are called… EPYC / Milan server boards 
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Jan 11, 2022 07:15
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Can I get a sanity check? I've got a 5600x on a b550 with a plat+ 1200W PSU. A couple of days ago, my pc abruptly shut down and now it won't reboot. Mobo LEDs are lit, but when I press power, I hear a click from the PSU and nothing else happens. No fan movement, nothing. When I pulled the mobo, I noticed the CPU cooler push-pins had come detached from the mobo, but despite this, the CPU remained tightly stuck to the cooler due to thermal paste. I had to forcefully twist-pull to remove the cooler that had been stuck on the CPU. PSU tests good on another system. I replaced the mobo and get the same "click" business upon powering up. No boot. I assume I fried my 5600x, but want to check to see if there's something else I should check before I order a replacement. I wish there was a way to definitively tell if this CPU is hosed or not. I hate this poo poo. Thanks.
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Jan 11, 2022 21:16
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I had a similar issue with a 3600x when I added RAM - had to take off and rotate the cooler to fit the new RAM, and had to twist it off. When I went to start it, it wouldn't go. Turned out I didn't break or fry my CPU, the two extra sticks of RAM just didn't like the CPU despite being identical to the existing ones. Removed them and it worked again. Try swapping memory just in case.
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Jan 11, 2022 21:34
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Thanks for the suggestion. I swapped the ram around to no avail.
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Jan 11, 2022 21:45
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Sir Bobert Fishbone posted:Dropping in with an anecdote: I tried to flash my ASRock Rack X470D4U BMC this week and it completely poo poo the bed. I assumed I was well out of warranty but submitted a ticket anyway, and after a bit of diagnostics they just told me tonight that they're sending me a new preflashed BMC chip. Super happy with the support and though I'm glad this means I don't have to buy a whole new mobo right now, I'll definitely look at ASRock Rack products whenever I upgrade this machine. New BMC EEPROM arrived, replaced, good to go. They asked me to mail back the broken chip so they could try to figure out what went wrong with the update, but postage is a small price to pay to get this board fully functional again.
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Jan 11, 2022 21:45
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Trolling Thunder posted:Can I get a sanity check? Wouldn't that kind of contact with the cooler be enough to prevent CPU damage from overheating?
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Jan 11, 2022 23:02
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Won't the Ryzen CPUs shut down before they torch themselves if the heat sink is applied improperly or whatnot anyway?
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Jan 11, 2022 23:43
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I assumed both things as well — who knows how long my CPU was operating like that, but thought it had thermal protections too. There are only so many things it could be, so I’m gonna get another cpu and close this ticket.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:59
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