Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
ANIME AKBAR
Jan 25, 2007

afu~

movax posted:

Linear's never been cheap but yeah the availability is lovely. I swear I saw a few hundred on Digi-Key a few days ago, but that might as well have been pre-pandemic considering how fast poo poo sells out.
You were probably seeing some of the MP temperature grade parts, which cost double all the others. I had to pay $30 each for a prototype build recently.

quote:

Judging from the part number / date of datasheet release, this must be one of the very last Linear designs before the ADI acquisition, or one of the first post-acquisition designs executed by (hopefully) the same team under the ADI banner. The datasheet quality is still high and typical of Linear's work, so I'm hopeful.
I can't say I've noticed any shifts in the documentation or design/quality of new devices since the merger. But they did lay off quite a few people, and that's bound to have consequences.

A year ago linear tech looked like a great option because they had their own fabs and most of their parts still had lead times <20 weeks. But then Analog Devices announced plans to close them down in May 2021. Last I heard, that plan was delayed, but not cancelled. Not sure if they're still operating, but lead times are all at ~52 weeks, same as everyone else. Unfortunately these sort of decisions are made for the most cynical reasons. But I've heard rumors that a lot of their availability problems are related more to packaging (which they outsource), not fab capacity.

quote:

I don't use a lot of MPS stuff, but MP9486 might be interesting; if you only need 48 V input, there are a lot more options that stop ~60 V in as well.
I'll check them out, thanks. Yeah, 60V is a big watershed. But finding chips for Vin~48V with integrated synchronous rectification is very hard now.

PRADA SLUT posted:

Is there an easy way to check the clock rate of those switchers for FCC compliance, from a given input?
Not sure what you think switching frequency/clock rate has to do with FCC compliance (aside from maybe determining the max frequency you test to).

ANIME AKBAR fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Jan 8, 2022

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so
Anything clocked over 9k needs FCC clearance as an unintentional radiator.

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005





That turned out very nice and clean. My first two thoughts were to ask how you did the decals and what does the inside look like, so I'm glad you answered those in your post.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

I was going on Amazon to buy some more little miniature microcontroller boards for my projects, and it's loving wacky that an esp8266, on a development board with USB support and power regulators and everything, is now 40% cheaper than an Arduino nano clone. Four times faster, 40 times the program space and RAM, and a drat Wi-Fi module built in. The only disadvantages are it runs on 3.3 volts and it only has one ADC. Or for the same price as an Arduino Nano you can get an ESP32 board, which is faster still with even more memory, and has like a dozen ADC channels and better Wi-Fi options and Bluetooth to boot. It's nuts.

Simultaneously I was looking at the raspberry pi zero 2 w, and they are out of stock everywhere and only available from scalpers who want 50 bucks for something that sold for 15 originally. Assholes.

Insane world we live in.

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Jan 10, 2022

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS


Never use 8266 anymore, just spring for the 32. Only legacy projects still support the old one, and it really only has like, 4 usable GPIO


Edit: correction never happened

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


I got a pi zero 2 W for $15 out of pure luck from browsing pishop.us at 3am

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

PokeJoe posted:

I got a pi zero 2 W for $15 out of pure luck from browsing pishop.us at 3am

They had them in stock consistently over the last few weeks until I checked just now lmao

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

Where do you cats and kitties source nuts and bolts?

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

I spent like 40 bucks on bags of small hardware (M2 through M5 in various lengths, plus regular nuts and nylocks) from AliExpress before the pandemic slowed everything down so now I have enough to last the next decade.

Amazon and eBay usually have what you're looking for for a decent price, and McMaster-Carr will definitely have what you need for a little more money.

Pham Nuwen
Oct 30, 2010



McMaster-Carr is the place if you want to be sure you're getting exactly the right part, since they've got all the dimensions and options meticulously laid out on their site.

I wonder if they'll still send you their massive physical catalog if you ask; I remember using that at my first job, but their website is pretty drat good so I've never missed it except out of nostalgia.

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

Thank you!

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Pham Nuwen posted:

McMaster-Carr is the place if you want to be sure you're getting exactly the right part, since they've got all the dimensions and options meticulously laid out on their site.

I wonder if they'll still send you their massive physical catalog if you ask; I remember using that at my first job, but their website is pretty drat good so I've never missed it except out of nostalgia.

I think you have to be a big enough customer to justify getting the catalog these days.

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

No, no catalogs, please! I have had enough Full Compass and Sweetwater catalogs to build furnture. I've told Sweetwater over the phone to stop sending me fricking catalogs because I use the fricking website. I said if it ain't got candy I don't want it.

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

ante posted:

Never use 8266 anymore, just spring for the 32. Only legacy projects still support the old one, and it really only has like, 4 usable GPIO


Edit: correction never happened

Old ESP32s are NRND, replaced with the S3/C3 and similar.

Gone is the WROOM32

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS

PRADA SLUT posted:

Old ESP32s are NRND, replaced with the S3/C3 and similar.

Gone is the WROOM32

That's not true at all.

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012

Stack Machine posted:

This is a tough call. If it were my gear I'd keep the power conditioner. The datasheet for it makes specific objective claims about what it does (for example how much surge energy it can dissipate, how much it attenuates RFI) so even if most peoples' reasons for using them are audiophile nonsense this device does measurable things and is a reasonable surge suppressor. I wouldn't worry too much about component aging except for maybe electrolytic capacitors, but unless it was stored sonewhere hot or made with especially bad caps, 10 years isn't usually long enough for those problems to start appearing.

A caveat to this is connected equipment warranty. If you buy just about any old surge protector new they'll cover your gear up to some amount. I don't know if that sort of thing is transferable or limited but if you care it might be worth checking with Panamax to see if theirs exists and still applies to you.
Here's a wrinkle. The Panamax's manual says this:

quote:

CAUTION – Do not install this device if there is not at least 10 meters (30 feet) or more of wire between the electrical outlet and electrical service panel.

I thought this was interesting. My plain-jane Tripp-Lite surge protector doesn't have this statement. I have no idea if there's 30 feet of wiring between the Panamax and the breaker box, I'm a renter. Not sure how to proceed...

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
Well you could see where your breaker box is (it's likely in a closet) and then measure along walls that lead back to the breaker box and just guesstimate.

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

hey what's the worst that could happen

KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD
Jul 7, 2012

I mean if it was line of sight its more like 10-15 feet soooo

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Motor question: I'm just kinda sussing out parts for a project that will need a motor that can be frequently stopped, reversed, and dialed to specific angular positions (though the accuracy isn't too important, like 1/8th-1/16th of a revolution is fine). It needs to be able to spin at at least 300 RPM and have at least 4.5 Nm of torque (but not too much more).

This seems to be squarely within the range of NEMA 34 stepper motors like this one, but I'm wondering if there's some other technology I'm overlooking that might work better or be cheaper.

e: Also here's an unrelated Amazon product image I like a whole lot

Shame Boy fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jan 11, 2022

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

Shame Boy posted:

Motor question: I'm just kinda sussing out parts for a project that will need a motor that can be frequently stopped, reversed, and dialed to specific angular positions (though the accuracy isn't too important, like 1/8th-1/16th of a revolution is fine). It needs to be able to spin at at least 300 RPM and have at least 4.5 Nm of torque (but not too much more).

This seems to be squarely within the range of NEMA 34 stepper motors like this one, but I'm wondering if there's some other technology I'm overlooking that might work better or be cheaper.

e: Also here's an unrelated Amazon product image I like a whole lot



Faulty Wiring came to me burning from whatever, I said NO!!

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Gonna have to update to the fire square and add in a consent requirement.

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

petit choux posted:

Hey, BTW, since I'm here, I've been working on this crude little project, here it is:



It's just to make it so you can use your feet to control the little synth, is all.

Quoting myself to refresh your memory for my next question, which is about the rotary encoder on the top left of the Korg in the pic above. I've had an easy enough time rerouting the pots on it but I have no experience with rotary encoders and Korg is politely not forthcoming with the info on what this one uses, as is their parts supplier.

(back of the panel)

Everything is connected and working except the encoder. I attached wires, top right, in hopes I'd be able to find something soon. I just asked my computer point-blank what encoder to use and Google pulled up one that looked identical and appeared to be the same make, I went to Digikey and purchased a couple but I have no idea. It doesn't appear that I have the proper equipment for testing to determine what the encoder is and there are no markings, so Q: would it do damage if I were to attach the wrong rotary encoder just to see if it works? I don't suppose there's any rule of thumb that would help me in these circumstances?

petit choux fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Jan 11, 2022

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

The great majority of rotary encoders use a two terminal (plus ground) output that encodes position and direction as essentially the phase difference between the terminals.

In the starting position let's say that both outputs are low. You click the encoder one turn clockwise, and as it moves terminal A goes high, and then a fraction of a second later terminal B does too. When both outputs have changed, you register a click. When you turn the knob another click clockwise, A goes low first, then B, and it continues around the circle alternating like that. If you turn the knob counterclockwise, the same thing happens, but B changes before A. So by watching both outputs for a state change and recording which one changed first, you can determine when the encoder was clicked and in what direction it was turned. The technical term for this is "quadrature encoding" if you want to look it up.

You can easily check the operation of a rotary encoder with a two channel oscilloscope. If you don't have that, you can make a little tester with a couple of LEDs on a breadboard and click the encoder around and watch them light up. Or you can just not worry about it: most encoders will have four terminals (A, B, the push down click, and ground/common), and if you can identify ground and the button, you can hook the other two up in either order and the encoder will work. If you get them backwards the rotation direction will just be reversed.

Oh, and no, you are unlikely to cause any damage by hooking an encoder up wrong. There should be hardly any current running through it in the first place. It just won't work properly.

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

ante posted:

That's not true at all.

The data sheet clearly says NRND: https://www.espressif.com/sites/default/files/documentation/esp32-wroom-32_datasheet_en.pdf

It will be supported for whatever it’s EOL is, but the transition target is the new S3/C3

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

Sagebrush posted:

The great majority of rotary encoders use a two terminal (plus ground) output that encodes position and direction as essentially the phase difference between the terminals.

In the starting position let's say that both outputs are low. You click the encoder one turn clockwise, and as it moves terminal A goes high, and then a fraction of a second later terminal B does too. When both outputs have changed, you register a click. When you turn the knob another click clockwise, A goes low first, then B, and it continues around the circle alternating like that. If you turn the knob counterclockwise, the same thing happens, but B changes before A. So by watching both outputs for a state change and recording which one changed first, you can determine when the encoder was clicked and in what direction it was turned. The technical term for this is "quadrature encoding" if you want to look it up.

You can easily check the operation of a rotary encoder with a two channel oscilloscope. If you don't have that, you can make a little tester with a couple of LEDs on a breadboard and click the encoder around and watch them light up. Or you can just not worry about it: most encoders will have four terminals (A, B, the push down click, and ground/common), and if you can identify ground and the button, you can hook the other two up in either order and the encoder will work. If you get them backwards the rotation direction will just be reversed.

Oh, and no, you are unlikely to cause any damage by hooking an encoder up wrong. There should be hardly any current running through it in the first place. It just won't work properly.

Wow, thanks for the great answer. I'd still love to hear anybody else weigh in on this. Here is a link to the ones I just got:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products...xrx50VurfaC2wO7

ED: Oh, and I'll need to sever the old one before trying the new one, right?

petit choux fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jan 11, 2022

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
Simple question:

I have a momentary switch that I like the look/feel of. I'd like to use it in a small project, but I need it to perform as a toggle/latching switch.

It seems this is easy enough to do with a D type-flip-flop? I've seen a schematic or two for them, but I also found, of all places, a website designed for people whjo wnt to build custom lightsaber replicas that sells a pre-made board for fairly cheap:
https://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Momentary-to-latching-converter-22-to-16V-P1129.aspx

I plan to have this use 12V (from a car's supply) but can easily use a voltage regulator to send that down (even though I think I'm ok since this is rated for up to 16V.)

Does this seem like it would work for my purposes? I watched a small video of someone from that website demonstrating that product (well, an older version of it, slightly different looking board but same functionality) and it did exactly what I want. Supply to Vin, output to Vout (in my case a relay since what's getting turned on will be probably be drawing a decent amount of current, certainly more than I want going through that board), all the grounds to the ground pins, and a momentary witch across the contacts A and B.
The only pins I am not sure what to do with are the On/Off and CTRL. I think I can just ignore these in my use case?

Hexyflexy
Sep 2, 2011

asymptotically approaching one

petit choux posted:

Wow, thanks for the great answer. I'd still love to hear anybody else weigh in on this. Here is a link to the ones I just got:

https://www.digikey.com/en/products...xrx50VurfaC2wO7

ED: Oh, and I'll need to sever the old one before trying the new one, right?

I can recommend those encoders made by Bourns Inc, my partner uses them in stuff he builds and we've never had a problem with them, unlike cheapo ones.

movax
Aug 30, 2008

DrBouvenstein posted:

Simple question:

I have a momentary switch that I like the look/feel of. I'd like to use it in a small project, but I need it to perform as a toggle/latching switch.

It seems this is easy enough to do with a D type-flip-flop? I've seen a schematic or two for them, but I also found, of all places, a website designed for people whjo wnt to build custom lightsaber replicas that sells a pre-made board for fairly cheap:
https://www.thecustomsabershop.com/Momentary-to-latching-converter-22-to-16V-P1129.aspx

I plan to have this use 12V (from a car's supply) but can easily use a voltage regulator to send that down (even though I think I'm ok since this is rated for up to 16V.)

Does this seem like it would work for my purposes? I watched a small video of someone from that website demonstrating that product (well, an older version of it, slightly different looking board but same functionality) and it did exactly what I want. Supply to Vin, output to Vout (in my case a relay since what's getting turned on will be probably be drawing a decent amount of current, certainly more than I want going through that board), all the grounds to the ground pins, and a momentary witch across the contacts A and B.
The only pins I am not sure what to do with are the On/Off and CTRL. I think I can just ignore these in my use case?

The main thing I’d think about / check is debounce, but yeah just running that into a DFF should work. Set input would work but I guess you could also run it into the clock input with D tied high.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Hexyflexy posted:

I can recommend those encoders made by Bourns Inc, my partner uses them in stuff he builds and we've never had a problem with them, unlike cheapo ones.

That's good because I just bought a gaggle of their pots and encoders yesterday for a controller project I just decided to take on.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.

movax posted:

The main thing I’d think about / check is debounce, but yeah just running that into a DFF should work. Set input would work but I guess you could also run it into the clock input with D tied high.

You've completely lost me with almost everything you said here.

There is no clock? I don't think? And I'm not sure what "set input" is? Is that just the 12V I have coming in as supply? D tied high is also over my head.

All I want to know is if I can put 12V into the Vin, Vout to a 12V relay, and put a small momentary switch across AB on their pinout and have it all work correctly as a toggle every time I push the switch.

movax
Aug 30, 2008

DrBouvenstein posted:

You've completely lost me with almost everything you said here.

There is no clock? I don't think? And I'm not sure what "set input" is? Is that just the 12V I have coming in as supply? D tied high is also over my head.

All I want to know is if I can put 12V into the Vin, Vout to a 12V relay, and put a small momentary switch across AB on their pinout and have it all work correctly as a toggle every time I push the switch.

(Real quick, sorry) -- D Flip Flops are one of the fundamental building blocks of digital logic. A very basic DFF has Din, Dout (Q) and a clock. On the rising edge of clock (typically) / when clock is high, Din ----> Dout. When the clock drops, Dout stays the value that was sampled when the clock went high -- 1-bit memory, if you will. If you hooked up Din to '1' (i.e., just a high voltage) and then hooked up your MOM push-button to the clock input, it would basically latch on in this state.

But -- you need it to toggle, which I forgot, so what I posted won't work. The fastest thing to do is probably just buy that converter which will also take care of level-shifting / passing through a higher voltage. One thing though -- you said "a car's supply" -- is this running off a vehicle 12 V bus? If so, that can and will see massive spikes / transient events that can reach 80 V for very short periods of time. Some additional TVS / protection circuitry might be needed for that off-the-shelf board there.

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS

PRADA SLUT posted:

The data sheet clearly says NRND: https://www.espressif.com/sites/default/files/documentation/esp32-wroom-32_datasheet_en.pdf

It will be supported for whatever it’s EOL is, but the transition target is the new S3/C3

No, I think you're misunderstanding.

The WROOM-32 was superseded (years ago) by the WROOM-32D, which was superseded by the WROOM-32E.
All of these are incremental upgrades that only add more memory. The platform is still under active development - they even released a new module last August, the WROOM-DA.

https://www.espressif.com/en/products/modules

All of these are based on the original ESP32, which is still supported and currently unchallenged by any of the newer chips. They all fill different niches. The S2 and C3 are less capable, but have some other cool stuff going on. The S3 is the closest, but is physically larger, more expensive, has less ROM, and is currently recommended as samples only.

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.

movax posted:


But -- you need it to toggle, which I forgot, so what I posted won't work. The fastest thing to do is probably just buy that converter which will also take care of level-shifting / passing through a higher voltage. One thing though -- you said "a car's supply" -- is this running off a vehicle 12 V bus? If so, that can and will see massive spikes / transient events that can reach 80 V for very short periods of time. Some additional TVS / protection circuitry might be needed for that off-the-shelf board there.

Up to 80V? Really?

I'm not running directly off the alternator or battery or anything, I'm planning to tap into an unused spot on my fuse box that would normally be used for an accessory my car doesn't have.

Or maybe a better idea is to tap into the "accessory" port? I.e. my second cigarette lighter? (I have a real cigarette lighter, and then a second port that's just like more modern cars that is just meant to take a cigarette lighter accessory.) Is that likely to have some voltage protection built in?

movax
Aug 30, 2008

DrBouvenstein posted:

Up to 80V? Really?

I'm not running directly off the alternator or battery or anything, I'm planning to tap into an unused spot on my fuse box that would normally be used for an accessory my car doesn't have.

Or maybe a better idea is to tap into the "accessory" port? I.e. my second cigarette lighter? (I have a real cigarette lighter, and then a second port that's just like more modern cars that is just meant to take a cigarette lighter accessory.) Is that likely to have some voltage protection built in?

Yeah -- if you google "Automotive Load Dump / Transient Protection" you can probably find some whitepapers / app notes that explain it. To be fair -- every OEM device in your vehicle is going to have some form of protection / clamping to handle this, so you get a bit of a distributed effect there, but it's still something to be watch out for.

AFAIK / at least on any vehicle I've ever designed or worked on, 12V accessory ports are simply fused outputs connected to KL15 or KL30 (switched battery power / always-on battery power); that is, they have no additional circuitry in them to clamp or otherwise regulate power.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Automotive electrical systems are the worst. You've got a baseline system voltage that varies between nearly 15 volts at full charge to below 10 volts when the engine is cranking. Several spark coils and literal spark gaps firing dozens of times a second and just swamping everything with broad spectrum noise. A high power AC alternator, voltage, frequency and current output all varying with engine speed, plugged through a notoriously flaky regulator/rectifier directly into the power rails. All kinds of inductive loads (motors, solenoids, powerful lamps) switching on and off at unpredictable times, resulting in load dumps that can swing over a hundreds volts positive or negative. A battery that can source several hundred amps and fry nearly anything you accidentally short it with.

It's like the Thunderdome for microelectronics

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Jan 11, 2022

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost
What's a fairly simple way to protect inputs in an auto application? I've seen some decent power supply circuits and automotive voltage regulators, but those applications were using a car's 12V power and isolating everything else. What if you wanted to read a switched battery or ignition signal as an input to a microcontroller?

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004


:911:
:wookie: :thermidor: :wookie:
:dehumanize:

:pirate::hf::tinfoil:

DrBouvenstein posted:

I plan to have this use 12V (from a car's supply) but can easily use a voltage regulator to send that down (even though I think I'm ok since this is rated for up to 16V.)


Be aware that car 12v can temporarily reach as high as 80v in a load dump situation. The easiest way to protect against that by using a dc-dc that can survive 80v.

Sorry efb.

If you want to monitor the battery voltage, you can shunt away excess voltage with a zener diode if you have a current limiting resistor before it.

taqueso fucked around with this message at 22:35 on Jan 11, 2022

movax
Aug 30, 2008

Salami Surgeon posted:

What's a fairly simple way to protect inputs in an auto application? I've seen some decent power supply circuits and automotive voltage regulators, but those applications were using a car's 12V power and isolating everything else. What if you wanted to read a switched battery or ignition signal as an input to a microcontroller?

Opto, TVS, Zener come to mind as decent options there if you're looking for digital.

Otherwise for analog measurement, still potentially a TVS or Zener, but you can do a lot with a divider -- as long as you don't exceed the clamp current rating of the micro, 'over-volting' it won't be an issue because the current is so low.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Salami Surgeon
Jan 21, 2001

Don't close. Don't close.


Nap Ghost
That makes sense. I was over thinking it.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply