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There's more to Snake Sisters than I expected. Its exploitative elements don't feel quite as exploitative as when they're done by white directors pointing and calling them savages. And there's some kind of Biblical Garden of Eden allegory under the surface of this thing that gives it some depth and structure. But it also feels kind of incoherent or shallow and I'm not into making my own themes for films. So while there was some interesting stuff to think about it didn't really make up for all the animal killings, graphic rapes, and just general dullness. It did seem well shot though. That was hard to make out because the Internet Archive copy appears to be a cam recording off a tube tv. But through all that it did seem like there was talent and some thought here. But not enough for me. I don't like Yuzna and I just find Beyond Re-Animator to be a poorly made derivative copy of Bride. If you like Yuzna, his gore, and his sensibility and depraved sense then he delivers that stuff. And that probably works more than the bad plot, acting, dialogue, and everything else doesn't. And derivative poorer quality horror sequels are something a lot of horror fans take for granted. But for me why watch this when I could watch Bride of Re-Animator? That one is better in every way and nothing here really does anything for me. I'm just bored. I really dug 12 Hour Shift. I think its got some pacing and structural issues but the comedy and overall plot are really cleverly and tightly written. Its only Grant's second film (and 7 years after her first) and I was really impressed by how well written it was and how good her comedic instincts directing were. From pretty much the musical moment mid way through until the end of the film I was holding back laughter. Its the exact kind of dry, clever, quirky, subtle callback, rewarding you for paying attention comedy that I really enjoy. And while some people don't seem to feel like its horror I thought it did a very good job maintaining not only the gore and tension that stuff was getting out of control and getting more dangerous, but also really developed into a full fledged slasher by the end. So 12 Hour Shift has my vote. Its my team. My favorite team. So no real surprise. But I expect Yuzna will beat it. That's how this works. But I hope people give 12 Hour Shift a chance and enjoy it before they vote for severed penis rat movie. Other category I'm voting for Beetlejuice but I still kind of have to watch the other movies. I did sort of watch them on the stream but I also didn't really. So I should rewatch them. I plan to. But I can't imagine them beating Beetlejuice. For me it just felt like a 5 star movie that does everything it wants to do perfectly and is a delight to watch. Even some of the stuff that people might feel ages badly feels like part of the movie. Beetlejuice is definitely pretty rapey but that's also clearly the point. He's a sleazeball and he's the movie's villain. And as I said I think the movie sets Catherine O'Hara and that sex pest dad guy up as kind of villains but not really. They're definitely neglectful of their daughter and too concerned with impressing people, but that's insecurity and failings, not malice. And everyone's a little flawed here. And they all come together as a family in the end. The other two films are... something. I dunno. I can't see them changing my mind but I'll give them a chance.
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Jan 3, 2022 07:23
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It seems like when Catherine O'Hara plays a character they always end up more likeable than just what's on the page. So it's hard to tell exactly how much you're supposed to like or dislike her in Beetlejuice when she has so many great memorable moments. Beettlejuice was the clear winner from the start on this one, but I was glad I did jump in the stream for Hollowman 2 just because I always like when I can see an obscure unnecessary sequel. I'm a sucker for dumb horror sequels and I probably wasn't ever going to have another obvious opportunity to see Hollowman 2. It was pretty bad though, as is Blood Creek just in a way that we horror fans tend to be more forgiving towards. Anyway we're not playing for second place here so Beetlejuice will probably get the flawless victory. Haven't watched the others yet but I'm looking forward to Re-Animator because I feel like I've only maybe seen it once? I know I've seen the first two a bunch of times but Beyond must not have made much of an impression on me years ago because I've never revisited it and I barely remember it.
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Jan 3, 2022 15:43
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Snake Sisters and 12 Hour Shift don't have banger Eurotrash dance tie-in songs the way Beyond Re-Animator does so that seems like an easy choice.
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Jan 3, 2022 20:20
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Silent Division 16 Seed: Joel Schumacher’s Blood Creek vs. (Darth’s There's Something About the Military-Industrial Authority Complex) Claudio Fäh’s Hollow Man 2 vs. (Fran’s Team Muddled by Mo-Cap) Tim Burton’s Beetlejuice I assumed this would be an easy Beetlejuice vote for me, but I watched both Blood Creek and Hollow Man II to make sure. I was totally right. Blood Creek (2009)  This is a big-budget B-movie, with one genuine surprise — the horse. There’s some interesting imagery here and there and I’m normally a sucker for occult science shenanigans, but it just isn’t especially compelling here. It’s competent, but that’s it. A waste of a perfectly good Michael Fassbender. One of the protagonists does kill a dog, but it’s arguably a Nazi dog. Hollow Man 2 (2006)  Hollow Man 2 may not be very good, but it’s also not especially bad. It was made by people who have made movies before so it doesn't even have the incompetent charm of outsider art. It’s just a movie I watched and will soon forget about. The absolute highlight is when the villain is stabbed with a pen and actually says “ouch.”
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Jan 4, 2022 02:32
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Beyond Re-Animator is too derivative of the first two films. The prison setting works like a fresh coat of paint. It was filmed in Spain, at the Prisión Modelo in Valencia, Comunidad Valenciana, and it is a brutally impressive place to film. The prison is ultimately used as stage dressing for the third act's chaos, and doesn't feature heavily in the themes or ideas of the film. The prison warden is just a menacing figure with power, nothing more than a sexual predator who turns into a rat. The story does see Herbert progress his research in infusing corpses with life. He's in prison, but it doesn't seem to hamper him much. The film establishes a new foolish young professional man that wants to ally with Herbert West and work with him within minutes. It then spends more than half of the film's run-time waddling towards a breakthrough. A little glass fuse that contains a new electrical secret to human life and behavior. Now the rabid foaming undead persons revert to their regular pre-death personality. This effect is temporary. They soon begin to mutate with grotesque characteristics of the creature whose life-force was absorbed into the glass fuse. It's a few extra steps, but it results in some of the film's most inventive moments of body horror. It provides a lot of potential for the film, but most of it is squandered with attention paid to a prison break where the undead are attacking and armed forces trying to quell the hysteria, which the film doesn't have the budget to properly explore. The film is too pre-occupied with sexual assault. I can trace a pattern in Yuzna's filmography from Bride of Re-animator, through films like Return of the Living Dead 3, to Beyond Re-animator, and I do not like the growing emphasis of sexually victimizing the women. In this film, sexual favors are the bartering chips laid by men in power. This idea doesn't play well in this film. It's more grotesque than the original Re-animator's perverse Dr. Hill. The original film has a scene of sexual assault portrayed with absurdism, and a viciously comic pun, in Dr. Hill's disembodied head trying to perform oral sex on Barbara Crampton. It works for me because there are so many ideas being juxtaposed, and it is a culmination of this character's awfulness as well as thematically expressing the psychosexual id of Dr. Hill. There's thought put into it. In Beyond Re-animator, not once, but twice Elsa Pataky's character Laura is forced to suck the warden's cock. This is also edited into a sequence where a nurse gets her clothes ripped off in a quasi-religious episode of Oedipal rage of a zombie man, who eats her nipple with his blackened teeth. It's a horny desperation for shock in place of creativity, and the result feels impotent instead of entertaining. Jeffrey Combs is good. He's always good. However, he has less to work with in this sequel. The film is a structural mess. It spent too much time in the set-up, and far too little attention to it's most interesting elements. It's not funny. It's not as creative, absurd, surreal, or interesting as it's predecessors, or other films that came out the same year. The echoic sound design of the original film is gone. No more are the flesh hodgepodge creatures from Bride. Ironically, in a film about discovering the electrical impulses that control human life, there is no energy in this film. I did draw the milk zombie because I liked him:  Milk Zombie Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jan 4, 2022 |
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Jan 4, 2022 04:54
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You really got at a lot of my problems with it. The "lack of energy" is a big one. The film just never feels lite it gets out of first gear for me, even during the finale. And the treatment of women which seems like a big pattern in Yuzna films and grosses me out and makes me think he's a bit of a misogynist. Not a fan. And Combs feels does feel like he's there as an obligation. Not in his performance. He's as good as always. But his character just feels there because he's supposed to be there. In truth he's kind of the antagonist to his protagonist partner in the first two films but they have a relationship and a back and forth, while West also has own things with Hill and whatever. Here it just feels like he's there, there's another lovestruck pushover guy for him to talk into stuff, some more bad people for him to do bad stuff to, but no real story or dance or anything. He's just kind of there for when the story needs him. I just don't think Yuzna is good at that stuff. He's a good effects guy and that's clearly his passion. And that goes to directing because he builds films around that. But here while there's stuff you can really appreciate if that's your think none of it really feels like it has gravitas because there's no real story or characters here.
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Jan 4, 2022 05:03
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STAC Goat posted:You really got at a lot of my problems with it. The "lack of energy" is a big one. The film just never feels lite it gets out of first gear for me, even during the finale. And the treatment of women which seems like a big pattern in Yuzna films and grosses me out and makes me think he's a bit of a misogynist. Not a fan. And Combs feels does feel like he's there as an obligation. Not in his performance. He's as good as always. But his character just feels there because he's supposed to be there. In truth he's kind of the antagonist to his protagonist partner in the first two films but they have a relationship and a back and forth, while West also has own things with Hill and whatever. Here it just feels like he's there, there's another lovestruck pushover guy for him to talk into stuff, some more bad people for him to do bad stuff to, but no real story or dance or anything. He's just kind of there for when the story needs him. I think if the film had leaned more into West's manipulative personality, and how he leans into a person's optimism and excitement (or interest in power) to get what he wants, it would be a compelling film. Instead of rehashing plot beats from the first one, lean into those personality traits and put it all the writing. West manipulating the new doctor, West manipulating the journalist, and West manipulating the warden, all playing into their different interests and goals, while ultimately just chasing the satisfaction and unraveling one more mystery of science. You can play it where he's trying to escape the prison, or trying to take over the prison, or just being opportunistic and going with the flow in a Lawful Evil sort of way. It would give Combs something to actually do! As it is in the film, a viewer can do a lot of work to project that onto West, because we know it from previous movies, but it's not really there in the film. All the motivation seems to exist because it has to for the movie to progress.
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Jan 4, 2022 05:09
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Yeah, you got Combs back. He's the star. Make him the star of the story. Instead Yuzna tries to recreate the dynamic from the first two films of the pretty boy partner in love and manipulated to do stuff for love but with worse writing and acting and it just feels like a random soap opera sideplot or something. If the story had just let West unleash his inner mad scientist I think it would have been better for it. I contend Patchwork is the better sequel, if only because it really does something different. In a world where the big reveal in that movie was Jeffrey Combs I think a lot of horror fans would have been real into it.
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Jan 4, 2022 05:15
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Atomic Division 15 Seed: (mbd’s Fearsome Filipinos) Celso Ad. Castillo’s Snake Sisters vs. (Goat’s The Enemies of Horror) Brea Grant’s 12 Hour Shift vs. Brian Yuzna’s Beyond Re-Animator All of the movies in this matchup were new to me. I had Beyond Re-Animator on my watchlist, mostly out of a sense of obligation because I had seen the previous two Herbert West movies. Snake Sisters (1984)  This feels like finding the absolutely weirdest home vacation movie ever. It’s either a surprisingly deep allegory about original sin or it’s just pointless misogyny and animal cruelty with some biblical language thrown in. Either way, I have to assume that the director found three women he could convince to be topless for 84 minutes and worked backwards from there. 12 Hour Shift (2020)  12 Hour Shift is a dark comedy of errors, but under all of the slapstick is the idea that if things were going to according to plan, the main characters would still be organ traffickers. It builds slowly, but once you get to the short musical number, it gets pretty great. There were several times where I laughed out loud — either at a great gag or at the absurdity of it all. Beyond Re-Animator (2003)  Beyond Re-Animator is fun, but it’s less than the sum of its parts. Jeffrey Combs is a champ and does great work. There are also some fantastic practical effects. Otherwise, it was a little bit of a letdown. The warden is no Dr. Hill and there were just too many underdeveloped subplots competing for attention. I liked Snake Sisters the least. The crummy quality of the copy available on Internet Archive may have helped it by obscuring some of the worst parts. Beyond Re-Animator was fun but hollow. I think Fran has spelled out the issues very well. 12 Hour Shift was really endearing and had a nice emotional core, despite the fact that you're rooting for the least worst person in a batch of awful characters. 12 Hour Shift definitely gets my vote here.
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Jan 4, 2022 15:00
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Did y'all know that Elsa Pataky from Beyond Re-Animator is married to Chris Hemsworth? Because I just found that out.
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Jan 4, 2022 15:08
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I was definitely impressed with 12 Hour Shift. After some early stumbles(casting Mick Foley was a mistake, he's a terrible actor and it wasn't a good first impression), it really did hit that black comedy sweet spot where it didn't need to make jokes to be funny, the situations were just so absurd that you can't help but laugh. For a movie that seems like it probably had a tiny budget they really were able to get the most out of the setting and for the most part the writing was on point. I'll watch Snake Sisters today but from what others have said about it I doubt I'll end up voting for it over 12 Hour Shift. Of course part of me always wants to just vote for a Yuzna/Combs film by default but I don't think I can really justify that in this case.
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Jan 5, 2022 19:09
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I like Mick Foley and so seeing him show up was a delight even if he isn't a great actor. 12 Hour Shift is a solid, fun movie and easily beats the extremely bad Snake Sisters and the lazy retread that is Beyond Re-Animator. I don't know if I will get to the other 2 movies I haven't seen, but I doubt any of them are going to be as good as Beetlejuice.
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Jan 5, 2022 20:12
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In the end Mick Foley's presence didn't hurt the movie because he was barely in it, but throwing him in there so early on had me worried that the entire thing was gonna be amateurish bad acting.
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Jan 5, 2022 20:17
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I didn't think he was bad really but I do agree the first act feels a bit loose and had me a little worried. But I think it works out because its all in the name of setting up all the pieces and once they start tipping dominoes everything really runs smooth. I actually think it was the Arquette cameo where I was like "Is this stuff going somewhere?" But it did. It all fit in the end.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:50
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Its... Thursday? Gotta get used to the new schedule. Vote remains open until 12 noon EST Jan 8th (or when I get to the computer). This is changed from a late night deadline from last year because I'm trying to be healthier and more sane and NOT give myself a reason to stay up until 4 AM. That means right now you have about 46 hours to watch the movies, vote, and tell us all why Hollow Man 2 truly is a cinematic classic that deserves to win. Its also the Twelfth Day of Christmas so happy days and good feelings and all. If all goes to plan I'll be watching movies tonight while Christmas lights shine on a fresh snowfall so I hope you enjoy your day too.
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Jan 6, 2022 20:01
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 I'll be streaming the next round on Saturday and Sunday from 7pm EST Saturday Fran’s Team Rule Breakers vs. Sion Sono vs. Deb’s Bon Appetite! Sunday Goat’s Team K🖕ng vs. MBD’s Indonesian Insanity vs. Kangra’s Sister Act 2: Backing the Habit Looking forward to seeing you there 🥰
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Jan 6, 2022 22:44
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Busier day than I expected. Sorry for lateness. One week down! A whole lot more to go! So who is kicking off our 2022 tournament with wins and who is getting kicked to the curb first? Lets find out!   We already have our first unanimous victory! Not a huge surprise Beetlejuice came out on top but still impressive it got the shutout. Although in keeping with Bracketology tradition it failed to get 100% of the ballots because one ballot held out any vote. I guess it was too hard to say goodbye to Hollow Man 2 and Blood Creek. On the other side in a result that probably shouldn’t be a surprise based on responses but still is a huge surprise to me just based on my teams’ track records vs Yuzna’s it looks like Brea Grant’s 12 Hour Shift gets a dominant win with both Beyond Re-Animator and Snake Sisters splitting a couple of respectable votes each. The result is a lot of bodies as Brian Yuzna misses the Field of 64 for the first time in our three seasons, Schumacher fails to make his second appearance in a row, and the two rookie teams of Fearsome Filipinos and There's Something About the Military-Industrial Authority Complex will have to wait another year for their first appearances. But my Enemies of Horror team makes its second straight tournament and picks up its first ever victory while Tim Burton picks up his second win despite missing last year’s tournament entirely. His Team Muddled by Mo-Cap will move on to a heavy challenge against the top vote getter Alfred Hitchcock while the Enemies of Horror will go up against the Lewton Bus. Well we got through the first week without any real problems. Lets keep the ball rolling. Digital Division 16 Seed: (Fran’s Team Rule Breaker) Harmony Korine’s Trash Humpers vs. Sion Sono's The Forest of Love vs. (Deb’s Bon Appetite!) Jean-Pierre Jeunet & Marc Caro’s Delicatessen  I guess last week wasn’t weird enough, so this matchup is trying to make up for it all in one go. I don’t even know what Trash Humpers is, and I even sneak peaked a little to check the video. I can’t tell if most of the reviews for Forest of Love are positive or negative, but they are all really focused on that 2 and a half hour run time. Thank god Trash Humpers is under 80 minutes. Twice I’ve said that in my head. And then there’s the cannibalism film. Not my favorite genre. I don’t know what to make of this matchup except that I’m scared to watch it and I bet everyone else is gonna love it. Trash Humpers is on Internet Archive The Forest of Love is on Netflix Delicatessen is on the Criterion Channel Misery Division 15 Seed: (Goat’s Team K🖕ng) Mike Flanagan’s Before I Wake vs. (mbd’s Indonesian Insanity) Joko Anwar’s Impetigore aka “Perempuan Tanah Jahanam” vs. (Kangra’s Sister Act 2: Backing the Habit) Oz Perkin’s The Blackcoat's Daughter  Ok, actually this one’s not that weird. Matter of fact of the two films (Flannagan and Perkins) I’ve seen they’re both rather timely Christmas/winter movies. They actually make a solid cold night double feature. Now of course we all know the polarizing nature of Flannagan and his relative lack of fans around these parts, and this movie that skirts around the horror perimeters and focuses heavily on sentimentality is gonna have its work cut for it. Perkin’s dark, quasi psychological film may be more goon’s speed if they can gel with Perkins’ own signature style of slow and heavily atmospheric over… you know… stuff happening. But we can’t forget Joko Anwar. This actually sounds like the most straight forward horror film of the bunch and the highest rated of the three. So while I know nothing about it I’m both very interested but also thinking it might be the favorite going in. Either way it sounds like a trio of very moody, very spooky films - if all in their own way. Before I Wake is on Netflix Impetigore aka “Perempuan Tanah Jahanam” is on Shudder, AMC+, and DirectTV The Blackcoat's Daughter is on DirectTV, fubo, Kanopy, Showtime, and Spectrum That’s our week. I think its best summed up as one matchup I might love and everyone else might hate, and one I might hate and everyone else might love. And if that’s not Bracketology what is? Its also 4 films I not only haven’t seen but haven’t even heard of before this, and the two I have are fairly deep cuts themselves. So that’s pretty Bracketology too. Should be an interesting and completely wide open week. Vote or change your vote until 12 noon EST Jan 15th (or when I get to the computer) Next Week! - mbd’s Satan Satan Satan Satan Good Satan, Great Satan vs. twernt’s Buggin' Out vs. Darth’s Team Vulgarity / Relationships Are Hard - Goat’s Lucky McKee and Friends vs. Serv’s Top Forties vs. Danny Boyle Spreadsheet Letterboxd List STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 12:41 on Jan 9, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 21:02
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Ah heck, missed the first round, alas. Good job Tim Burton, rip my team. I didn't really like Delicatessen if I recall correctly but I definitely don't like Sion Sono and Trash Humpers is probably not a movie I'll enjoy. Not a fan of Flanagan, and Blackcoats Daughter is basically the most generic of A24 horror to me. Impetigore is pretty good tho, so it's getting my vote unless Mike surprises me.
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Jan 8, 2022 21:12
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STAC Goat posted:Digital Division 16 Seed: (Fran’s Team Rule Breaker) Harmony Korine’s Trash Humpers vs. Sion Sono's The Forest of Love vs. (Deb’s Bon Appetite!) Jean-Pierre Jeunet & Marc Caro’s Delicatessen Netflix has both The Forest of Love, which is the film, and The Forest of Love: Deep Cut, which is an extended version of the film presented as a seven-episode series. I don't want to discourage anyone from watching the longer version, but the 151 minute one (the one linked above by STAC Goat) is the one you want for the purposes of this matchup.
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Jan 8, 2022 21:16
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Vote Delicatessen! Every film on that team slaps
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Jan 8, 2022 21:18
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Digital Division seems like a pretty solid slate of films to me, even though I imagine a lot of people will have zero time for Trash Humpers. And honestly it’s probably complete horseshit but my brain went to some enjoyably quiet receptive place as I powered through it. I gave Forest of Love and Delicatessen equally high ratings on Letterboxd, so the deciding factor for me is director fandom and Sion Sono gets my vote. Forest of Love is hardly his strongest film so I’d like to see more of his work get exposure here. I haven’t seen any of the Misery Division films yet, but I’m not a Mike Flanagan fan and I understand that The Blackcoat’s Daughter had some sort of messed-up release which suggests it deserved to be buried, so my hopes are not very high for this slate unfortunately.
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Jan 9, 2022 00:05
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Unfortunately I was tied up this weekend so I couldn't make the streams. I'm decided on the first matchup, having just watched The Forest of Love I think I'd be voting for it in a lot of other situations but personally I just love Jeunet's style too much to go against him. The Forest of Love was unique as well though, and I'm definitely glad I watched it. Trash Humpers was never in serious consideration. The other matchup is gonna be really interesting, I'm looking forward to diving into that one. I've been meaning to check out The Blackcoat's Daughter for a while now, and Impetigore sounds really cool too. Also Flanagan is a wild card here, I don't give him much of a chance going in but he's still capable of making a competent film so it's totally possible that he'll eek out a close one. A lot of times I'm kinda leaning one way or another before I even watch the films but in this case my mind is totally open to voting for any of the three.
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Jan 10, 2022 16:40
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Basebf555 posted:Unfortunately I was tied up this weekend so I couldn't make the streams. I'm decided on the first matchup, having just watched The Forest of Love I think I'd be voting for it in a lot of other situations but personally I just love Jeunet's style too much to go against him. The Forest of Love was unique as well though, and I'm definitely glad I watched it. Trash Humpers was never in serious consideration. I've only had a chance to watch Before I Wake so far, but "competent" is probably the best descriptor for it, no more, no less. It's definitely playing to Flanagan's ideal of using "horror" as a vehicle to explore psychological trauma more than anything else, and it's more of a dark fairy tale than it is a truly scary movie. That said, what holds it back is the lame Psycho-style ending of over-explaining what the "Canker Man" really was and of making up some bullshit happy ending material that sounds nice but doesn't really solve anything. I liked it better when it was trying to be a little bit less obvious and on-the-nose. I will probably watch The Blackcoat's Daughter tonight or tomorrow; don't know if I'll be able to squeeze in a viewing of Impetigore before the voting window closes. However, both films would have to really, really screw the pooch to make me want to vote for Flanagan with this film.
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Jan 10, 2022 21:10
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Trash Humpers Well, they do it, they hump trash. I went into the movie extremely cautious, expecting the worst, and it turns out that ultimately it’s a quite boring movie. It should have been Beavis & Butthead’s Chainsaw Massacre but it’s almost impressive in its restraint to not do anything really funny, disgusting or creepy. Delicatessen Always having hard time with twee movies, either I love em or hate em. This one, at the end I still sort of found myself thinking it’s okay without going into any of the extremes. It’s a very good looking movie (although I’m not a fan of the colour palette), very well done overall, but it’s just missing a certain oomph. The Forest of Love Now this has oomph to spare. Too much. If you ask me, Sion Sono is a more pervy, less thoughtful Takeshi Miike (imagine that!). His movies look great, there is a deranged energy in everything he does. His oogling of female characters is uncomfortable, especially in conjunction with how badly he treats them. He’s quite obviously a bad guy from the start. But I give him a chance. He’s sort of intriguing. Maybe he’s winning me over despite me sort of hating it? I could be on board with all that’s happening on screen, since it’s obviously just all a big joke. Haha ok well maybe this is good? But still, too much. No, I love it. Doing bad things on screen is fun. Doing bad screens off screen, is it fun? Depicting bad things from off screen on screen, is it fun? Yes? Are my thoughts on this movie just reflections of the thoughts that the protagonists go through? Yes? I’m voting for this.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:01
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A Minor Defense and Some Context for TRASH HUMPERS Trash Humpers is not a serious film. It is 78 minutes of anarchic low-budget filmmaking. It is a series of images and moments meant to provoke, frighten, and alienate the viewers. The characters are absurd caricatures, visually old and wrinkled in the face, but full of the energy of awful youths. THE RAZORBLADE IN THE APPLE The film's formation came from the intersection of three ideas. quote:Walking his dog late at night in the back alleys of his hometown of Nashville, Korine encountered trash bins strewn across the ground in what he imagined as a war zone. Overhead lights beamed down upon the trash in a Broadway-style that Korine found very dramatic. They began to resemble human form, beaten, abused and "very humpable." quote:Korine remembered, as a teenager growing up in Nashville, a group of elderly peeping toms who would come out at night. He has described them as "the neighborhood boogeymen who worked at Krispy Kreme and would wrap themselves in shrubbery, cover themselves with dirt, and peep through the windows of other neighbors." The third idea was Korine's fascination with found objects or artifacts. He even flirted with the idea of "leaving the film on a sidewalk somewhere" or place various parts of the film at different flea markets to be unearthed at random and eventually put together as a whole. As the filming progressed, this idea of virally releasing the film in segments or "abandoned" VHS tapes was dropped, mostly for practical reasons, like copyright laws, and Korine's interest in showing the film in festivals. quote:"I thought of doing that, actually. Then the few people I showed it to told me that there’s no way anyone would believe I didn’t make it. We thought of not putting titles or anything at all on the film. There was even a conversation at one point about just making a bunch of copies and leaving them on the sidewalk somewhere, and seeing what would happen. Leave it in front of some restaurant or an old person’s retirement home or a police station or something. But I just didn’t have the patience or the trust for something like that. This is the headspace I've adopted for my viewings of Trash Humpers. Imagine you're at a flea market, or a thrift store, or a used book shop, and you see a VHS with a hand-written label that says "TRASH HUMPERS". You put that in a VHS player and your CRT fills up with these images. Trash Humpers is Korine's response to his film Mister Lonely. (For those completely put-off by this film and questioning Korine as a "good" director, I highly recommend this film. It is a film about identity and self, it is a film about love and friendship and finding solidarity with other outsiders, and it has Werner Herzog as a drunk Catholic priest who helps a convent of skydiving nuns. It is a lovely, sweet sentimental film. It is mostly-linear and has a fairly recognizable cast with Diego Luna and Samantha Morton.) It was an ambitious film, and his most expensive at 8 million dollars. With greater budgets comes greater studio pressure. Mister Lonely was born out of Korine figuring out sobriety, his place as a writer and director and artist, and our grasp of who we are. As a cinematic achievement, the film is a success, regularly considered his best film by fans (despite Spring Breakers and The Beach Bum being popular answers, since they are his most financially successful and popular.) As a filmmaking project, the film broke him, the film industry made him feel estranged, and he didn't know where he would go next. MAKE IT MAKE IT DON'T FAKE IT Korine grew up in the age of VHS. He remembers his first camera, given to him by his father, and reusing the tape over and over again. quote:"There was something interesting about certain images or scenes bubbling up to the surface." ... "There's this obsession nowadays with technology and the fact that everything looks so clear. Everything needs to be so high-definition. There was a strange beauty in the analog. You almost have to squint to see things through the grain and the mist. There's something sinister about it." Korine aimed to make his next film as fast as he could, with the free-form immediacy of painter and canvas. The script was a collection of written down ideas and imagery. Before filming, Korine shot lo-fi images of people in costumes late at night to help find his aesthetic. quote:"Once everyone was in their character and their costume, and I had figured out the structure of it, the randomness, the anti-aesthetic, it was really the performers, the Trash Humpers, walking around at night, videotaping each other doing these things," Korine recalled. "We would just walk around and sleep under bridges or behind a strip mall somewhere. We'd get these big tractor tires and make a nest to sleep in." Korine adds, "it was pretty intense because there were no breaks. It was just constant. Korine encouraged spontaneity through-out filming. He didn't think traditionally about scenes, sounds, or color during filming, but more about being true to a feeling. quote:"If it feels right to me. If there is some strong, palpable, raw quality in the moment then I won't question it." Korine cut the film on two VCRs to instill a chaotic structure. quote:I was very concerned with not making this work like a traditional movie. In traditional story structure, you’d have a scene starting in a certain place and ending in a certain place. And you’d have a breath at the beginning and at the end. I didn’t want that. It needed to approximate a randomness. I wanted a kind of incidental awkwardness, like maybe the guy taping it had turned it off and on." quote:I gather you didn’t have an organized shoot with permits and things. Did you have any run-ins with bystanders or with cops while making the film? There were only four months between the start of filming and the world premiere. MYSTICS OF MAYHEM quote:The film reminded me a bit of Werner Herzog’s Even Dwarfs Started Small, which is basically just about a group of crazy dwarves causing total mayhem for an hour and a half. I think there is a hard-to-describe beauty to TRASH HUMPERS. I think it's a fascinating and unique portrait of the American south. The film is full of trash, wreckage, darkness lit with the warm yellow glow of halogen bulbs...It feels dystopian, and yet it's a sincere portrait of Nashville, Tennessee, albeit it's darker, more sinister aspects. The film is also amoral anarchic glee. It is a world where morality does not matter. There is never a grounding force to remind you that this is Real, and yet it's violence, it's bizarre characters committing constant vulgarities, lands with authenticity. It also has a magic to it, granting me, the viewer, a power to imagine my own nightmares. There is a scene where the female Trash Humper tells a child how to put a razor blade in an apple. This conjures up the feeling of biting into an apple with a razor blade, slicing up my tongue, the blade driving between my teeth into my gums, my mouth filling with blood and pain. There is another scene where two characters are forced to eat pancakes covered in dish soap. Every time I've watched the film, I can feel the textures of soft sticky pancakes and the horrid chemical taste of dish soap burning on my tongue. There is something about TRASH HUMPERS that does this to me again and again. I do not know if it's the VHS format, Korine's cleverness at recognizable sensation (mouth pain, the taste of soap, the sickly sweet-sour smell of trash bins that have housed garbage for days upon days, etc.), or something else, but the film tickles my subconscious in a way that surrealism only can. quote:At the same time, for all the awfulness that’s on display, there’s also a utopian quality to what we’re seeing. The trash-humpers live in their own idealized world. It seems ugly to us, but they’re living on their own terms. There is a poetry to destruction. My kind demeanor belies a mischief, and while I've lived a life of coloring in between the lines, I have also done my fair share of urban exploration and vandalism. It's fun. It's empowering. I think, sadly, destruction is a major force in human nature. We are such small, weak things and crave the feeling of empowerment, even if it is just the dominance of inanimate things. Film criticism, and criticism in general, seems more interested in superiority. My opinions are superior than the opinions of others. This movie is inferior to that movie. This movie is inferior to my intellect. I am greater than this artist, because they failed. We also have an obsession with pain and embarrassment. YouTube was only 4 years old when Trash Humpers came out. WorldStarHipHop was also founded in 2005. The intention for these formats are forgotten. Now YouTube's most popular videos are Fail Videos, and WorldStar is synonymous with viral videos of human suffering--from fights to vandalism to death. Even now, if you somehow happen to stumble upon a fight breaking out, or a physical altercation, you might find a person recording the event on their phone and shouting "World Star!" It's hard not to conflate TRASH HUMPERS with this sensation. The Trash Humpers are compelled to record their actions constantly. They aren't looking for celebrity, or intending to go viral, but are still compelled to record acts of destruction, murder, or poetry readings. There is also a mundanity to their actions. Is the Trash Humping sexual? Or is it a compulsion? Does Trash Humping lose it's luster after years of Trash Humping, or does it still provide a thrill? There is an irony to the characters. Often old people are considered wise, or kind, or soft. They have positive connotations. Here, they are a disgusting mask reflecting humanity's worst instincts. THREE LITTLE DEVILS I write this in service of the film and to give this audience a bit more appreciation for it. I did not include it on my team ironically. This wasn't a "gotcha". It's abrasive, it's alienating, it's weird, and it's vulgar. I have seen the film a couple of times now. The first time I saw it, I was alone. I did not know what to expect, and it scared me. Not because of what it shows, but because of the way it makes me feel. It hints at a darker aspect of humanity, both absurd and instantly recognizable. There is something distinctly American about the film, too. On rewatches, I've grown more attached to the film. It's funnier now. It invites you to revel in it's chaos. I've even been fortunate enough to see the film in theaters, and while people did leave immediately ("That's why I named it Trash Humpers, because I didn't want to fool anyone.") the audience that stayed was on it's wave-length, and laughed with it, cringed with it, and all probably felt a little dirty after it. It's a successful film because it absolutely succeeds in what it intended. I do consider this one of the best Found Footage films. It's one of the most creative uses of the format, and also one of the most realistic. The problem with most FF films is how ridiculous it is to consider it a found footage film. Rarely does a found footage film make sense. "Who edited it, and why is the editing so good? How did this get to my screen? Who found the footage?" In this film, the answer is Trash Humpers, and the questions actually aid the film's impact instead of detract. "I did not enjoy this" is a fair assessment. I don't think the film is fully intended to be enjoyed in a traditional way. It's not Ghostbusters, it's not Grave Encounters, nor does it want to be. It's experimental, like a tone poem. It's a film that destroys your preconceived notions about film. It's TRASH HUMPERS, and it's a work of art. "Art" is a funny subjective thing, though. For some people, if you were to say "Let's go look at some art", they might assume they're going into a gallery to see something like Monet. If instead they are shown Francis Bacon, they might assume it's a joke or a prank. Comparing the latter with the former may inspire discussions about what makes Art Art, but they still both qualify. Art isn't always about being appealing. Sometimes it needs to be nasty, vulgar, horrendous, and strange. Which is why it was placed on Team Rulebreakers, and why I will champion the film and the team. Too often we get wrapped up in tradition, or systems that work. Too often, scripts are written with books of rules like Save The Cat, or the horrid Russo Brothers Script School where they've made screenwriting like it's a math problem, where Characters A & B need a Crisis of Identity on pages 55-56, so they can get to the Call of Arms by page 60, so on pages 62-63 Character C can blah blah blah. It's a bit funny that Team Rulebreakers has had it's two most ostracizing films, both by Korine, drawn first in each tournament. It's not gonna get the vote. I would love for it to move forward, but it's a team ultimately designed to fail, because it's ultimately a middle finger to tradition, rules, and audience expectations. It's exciting to see a filmmaker push the boundaries, and I'm happy that I could throw a fun wrench of artistic integrity into the tournament to get participants to watch interesting films, even if they would never bring home the gold. My true underdog team. ADDENDUM: SOME REVIEWS OF TRASH HUMPERS quote:This is counter-cinema at its best. For every insipid, corporate-led blockbuster that comes hurtling out of Hollywood, something as gross, coarse and provocative as Trash Humpers must counteract, if just to remind us of the power of film. quote:It's oddly affecting in a deeply discomfiting way, but Trash Humpers pales in comparison with Harmony Korine's earlier, truly transgressive work." quote:"It's like watching a homemade VHS made by some anonymous high school gang of mildly pervy, goofball friends to amuse themselves one weekend when they had nothing better to do," and "Like all of Korine's output, Trash Humpers is art presented as trash or the other way around – in this case, something like pretentious 1980s 'performance art' captured on VHS." quote:A Dadaist delight, Harmony Korine's Trash Humpers is a direct descendant of Jack Smith's Flaming Creatures, perhaps the first and only quote:It is an exercise in experimental provocation and in pure insolence, while sometimes being horribly funny and fascinating, reviving the spirit of Tod Browning's Freaks and the ice-cold vision of Diane Arbus. quote:This is a monster movie, but instead of creating fictional characters, it simply holds a mirror up to America. quote:They're celebrating. What are they celebrating? The mere fact of being alive... weirdly festive and triumphant,... Something deeper, darker, accrues from the post-adolescent prankishness. If we survive, we all grow elderly, lunatic and happy-go-lucky. quote:when I reflect on the city in which I live, yes, of course I think of Robert Altman's Nashville; but when I really, truly reflect on the city in which I live, I'm inclined to think of films like Trash Humpers & Gummo first and foremost, any day of the week. quote:tbh you could rate this movie 1 star and tell me it's the worst and i'd be like that's fair but you could also say it's an amazing 5-star masterpiece and i'd be like makes sense quote:The relationship between freedom, nature, and amorality: Korine half-jokes that it's the most American movie ever made, but he's really dealing with broader philosophical questions that aren't easily answered. Getting past the first twenty minutes is almost a chore - it seems nihilistic to a nearly unwatchable fault, all the moreso given its locale. Why am I watching a bunch of white Americans from the South hump trash and wear Confederate flags as shirts? Or drag baby dolls around on bikes, or gawk at corpses, or murder people for no reason? It seems to inhibit what seems it's formal predilection: complete randomness for no purpose. But this starts to get clearer, thematically, at daytime - the greenery, the beauty of a riverbed, the beautiful accidents of sunsets, and those same sunsets reflected on water. Nature, by itself, is beautiful - but what about the nature of people? Or more specifically - people motivated by their nature rather than by their reason? Read the full review Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jan 11, 2022 |
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Jan 11, 2022 15:48
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Trash Humpers didn't work for me, but if this is just a minor defense of it, I will have to give it another try at some point.
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Jan 11, 2022 18:52
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Just finished trash humpers (haven't gotten to the others in this round yet), it was alright. I feel Korine has done better work on similar subjects though. Momma is the best character, or at least given the best scenes. The razor blade apple, her asking the lord for guidance then cycling away with a baby doll on the bike followed shortly by her with an actual baby were some of the highlights for me. There's some neat humanity throughout the movie, even as our main gang are just a bunch of psycho losers. When they watch the soccer game from afar is an incredibly well shot moment even if it's brief. The scene with the prostitutes ends with a lullaby that feels incredibly human while also being absurd and humorous. A lot of the darker elements kind of fell flat for me. Some of them were discomforting and impactful but still felt hollow. I think some of that is purposeful. The racist homophobic "comedian" scene for example is sad and uncomfortable to watch without offering us much for doing so, just that unease of watching something incredibly dumb and bad. Even if intentional is just left me with a meh feeling overall and dragged me away from some of the film's stronger elements as a result.
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Jan 11, 2022 19:21
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MacheteZombie posted:Just finished trash humpers (haven't gotten to the others in this round yet), it was alright. I feel Korine has done better work on similar subjects though. I do think that Trash Humpers is Korine's weakest film. Obviously I think it succeeds in what it does, but I think his other films are all consistently greater. twernt posted:Trash Humpers didn't work for me, but if this is just a minor defense of it, I will have to give it another try at some point. My minor defenses have acromegaly.
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Jan 11, 2022 19:39
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I hated Trash Humpers but I’ve shared my square dislike of “provocation” or “transgression” many times and everyone knows I prefer some semblance of structure. So I was never gonna like or understand a bunch of people acting like boring bigot burnout teenagers for a weekend for art.
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Jan 11, 2022 21:05
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Digital Division 16 Seed: (Fran’s Team Rule Breaker) Harmony Korine’s Trash Humpers vs. Sion Sono's The Forest of Love vs. (Deb’s Bon Appetite!) Jean-Pierre Jeunet & Marc Caro’s Delicatessen I thought Trash Humpers was one of the worst films I'd ever seen. I felt so strongly about that that when I watched a really terrible movie two days later and thought "this might be the worst movie I've ever seen" I had to stop and reevaluate that because I remember Trash Humpers. I really don't get the point of it. I don't see the artistry in dressing up like old people and spending a weekend acting like dumb burnout teenagers. In my review I joked that this was Jackass without any effort to be creative or entertaining or V/H/S if instead of supernatural stuff all the tapes just had more footage of those douchebags breaking stuff and doing upskirts. Those are jokes but I also think it kind of speaks to what I don't get. What are we showing? Is something being revealed here? I think we already knew this was a thing. Does recreating the same thing countless teenagers do aimlessly every weekend really count as a movie? Is the only difference between this and a random video of teenagers committing petty acts of vandalism, endangering people, and being bigots is that the movie makers did it ironically? I don't get it. I don't like it. It may be art but its feces smeared on a canvas from my eye. I've never seen Sono before The Forest of Love but I think I have a sense of him now. He feels like Takashi Miike in that he wants to take you for a long ride just so he can pants you, leave you in the woods, and laugh as he drives away. At least that's what this felt like. For the first two hours of this film I didn't have strong feelings. There were elements I liked or was interested in but the pacing was somehow too slow and too fast at the same time ruining it. Story and character elements felt rushed past too quickly to really sink or invest in and I can see how there could be entire episodes of stuff in the Deeper Cut missing from here. At the same time the whole thing feels so drawn out and laborious with even the characters struggling to make it the distance. To me its always a bad sign when you're ditching characters half way through a movie and introducing new ones. And that's without the 2 1/2 hour length. But then the final 20 minutes or so just really soiled me on the movie and Sono entirely. It just felt gonzo and stupid for the sake of it. I wasn't surprised. It didn't really make sense or tie things up. It didn't feel natural or like anything human beings would say or do. It was just a bunch of silly stuff for lols. At least that's the sense I got. And it turned me hard against the movie and made me disinterested in seeing any other Sono films. The surprise of the set was Delicatessen which I was dreading terribly as a cannibalism film from the Solo team... but it was really pretty cute and clever and delightful. I don't even think the cannibalism thing is much of a thing at all. I think Fran said that the post apocalyptic setting felt non existent and I think that's because the whole thing just struck me as a thin allegory for Nazi occupation. The fascistic middle man controlling the lives of people kind of trapped in their homes. Not prisoners but not free either. And the cannibalism and murders are the atrocities that they're forced to observe and endure at the hands of their oppressors. And the moral compromises and sins that people make under such pressure or conditions. All the collaborators or people who turned their heads justifying it as just what they needed to do to survive. The cannibalism and post apocalyptic setting just seems like a whimsical, fantastical set dressing to do this story without the heavy weight and misery of something like Salo. Instead we get this quirky little comedy that reminded me early on of Tim Burton, dealing with dark content with an almost child like fairy tale whimsy. I didn't fully feel its sense of humor or tone but I was won over by the end I suspect I would have enjoyed it more if I hadn't gone in with preconceptions and fears about what it wasn't. Its probably something that plays even better once you know the tone, characters, and situation from the start. So I didn't love Delicatessen but I disliked the other films so much it could probably win by default. I actually thought this might end up being a week I abstain and dislike all three films but I really did actually enjoy Delicatessen plenty enough that a vote for it doesn't feel like a vote against the other two. I WOULD vote against the other two. But I don't think I have to here.
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Jan 12, 2022 10:59
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STAC Goat posted:What are we showing? Is something being revealed here? I think we already knew this was a thing. Does recreating the same thing countless teenagers do aimlessly every weekend really count as a movie? It is kinda funny that this also describes Licorice Pizza, Dazed & Confused, Fast Times At Ridgemont High, The Breakfast Club, Ferris Bueller, Dope, The Florida Project, Lady Bird, and countless other very good Slice-of-Life Day-in-the-Life movies.
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Jan 12, 2022 14:24
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Before I Wake was actually better and more interesting than I was expecting from a Flanagan film. I don't think it stuck the landing, but the premise was really cool and it definitely kept me guessing throughout about how things were gonna play out. And some of it is legitimately disturbing and scary. Also I was pleasantly surprised by Kate Bosworth, I think this was the best performance of anything I've seen her in. So I dunno I think it has a real shot at getting my vote, I still have to watch the other two in the matchup.
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Jan 12, 2022 14:55
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Digital Division 16 Seed: (Fran's Team Rule Breaker) Harmony Korine's Trash Humpers vs. Sion Sono's The Forest of Love vs. (Deb's Bon Appetite!) Jean-Pierre Jeunet & Marc Caro's Delicatessen Trash Humpers (2009)  I did not like Trash Humpers but I do find myself thinking about it and, thanks to Fran's defense of it, I will try to give it another chance at some point. Even so, I'm currently not a fan so I won't be voting for it in this matchup. The Forest of Love (2019)  The Forest of Love is ambitious which means that it's also a bit of a chore to get through. There are plenty of good parts, though it meanders too much. The twist at the end may have been telegaphed, but I did enjoy seeing Joe Naruta caught off guard for once and having the reveal be in the form of an essay was definitely interesting. Speaking of Joe Naruta, Kippei Shiina's performance is great and he's really the heart of the movie. Delicatessen (1991)  Delicatessen is a charming, quirky visual feast. The story is not the strongest and the whole subplot with the Trogs seems to be there just to force a confrontation with the butcher and maybe to get Caro his SAG card, but I'm not sure it matters. This is a movie powered by improbable whimsy and it just works. I may have nominated Sion Sono, but I'm voting for Delicatessen here.
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Jan 12, 2022 15:36
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Improbable whimsy is a good way to describe Jeunet's entire career.
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Jan 12, 2022 15:39
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I haven't decided where I'm voting yet, either. I still have Impetigore, Before I Wake and Forest of Love to watch. I'm not a loyalist to my teams. I wasn't last tournament, and I won't be in this tournament. The better movie experience will get my vote. Here's some thoughts I have on the other contenders: (Spoilers below) I didn't like The Blackcoats Daughter. I usually dig quiet, melancholic spooky films, but this was a boring experience for me. The word that kept coming to mind was "introverted", rather than "quiet", "minimal", "reserved" or other terms with more positive connotations. In a film with three female leads, the only character I found interesting was Bill. Not because he's an interesting character, because he's basically a white knight who's too kind to survive. You know he'll be off'd. But James Remar has that ability to instill a warmth in a character that could otherwise be creepy or off-putting. I did like Rose more than the other three girls, but only because she's a bit more defined by her actions than the other two, who are defined by "mildly spooky/psychotic quietness" and "may have dead parents". That Rose's actions are "possibly pregnant and nervous about that" is also a bummer. Can you tell that this script was written by a man? Quiet women without distinct personalities, one defined by her parents, one defined by her reproductive system, one defined by "being crazy"? None of the women really like each other? All the men are good and saintly? The most trustworthy women are sexless nuns? How about the twist, which basically says "Blonde white women all kinda look the same, yeah?" mixed with "women be crazy." S'not a good look, Oz. Here's my fix: Drop Emma Roberts or drop Kiernan Shipka. You don't get both. Keep the same film, but now that singular actress plays both roles. Now the non-linear structure makes more sense, and your "gotcha" twist is built on the confusion of twins/doppleganger. Yeah, I didn't like it. The setting is visually appealing, and Remar's good, but the whole thing sucks. It would have been a nice sleep-aid if it weren't for the shoe-horned music stings trying to tell me "~BwOoOnG~ This is actually spoooooky!" Delicatessen is pretty good, but not great. I would have loved it a lot more had I seen it in my more formative years as a movie enthusiast. Thankfully, I kinda went to the source and watched Terry Gilliam films growing up instead of this one. It's absolutely creative. The script throws so many ideas at the wall, and a lot of them stick, but a lot of them kind of pile up around my feet. As a whole, it's loose, sloppy, a bit incoherent, but there's so much good stuff in it, it outweighs the bad. My complaints are mostly with the script. The cinematography, the performances, the set design, the costuming, the music; all of that works and gets the thumbs up. As STAC mentioned, I just don't fully think the movie earns it's setting. I'm not a hard "rules" critic, but this movie could use some rules with the post-apocalyptic setting. There's no context. Is it an apocalypse because the air is bad? Dust storms? Is it because there's a food scarcity, which is why we have cannibals? But our main character is a devout vegetarian. What's he eating? Can't be grains or corn, that's currency, cuz there is no currency. Do they eat the currency? There are vehicles. There's electricity. There's newspapers. There's television. There's contact lenses? But coffee is a luxury. Shoes are important enough to trade, but someone can order contact lenses? You can't travel because it's dangerous, but the gangs are underground in the sewers. So is it dangerous because of the air? Sure, maybe I'm being a bit too hard on the film's whimsical nature. But let's compare this to a major inspiration to the film, Terry Gilliam's Brazil, one of my absolute favorite films, a masterpiece in which the sprawling story reveals itself to be a dense cohesive whole on rewatches. The film has ducts. Ducts everywhere. Homes (bathrooms, living rooms, kitchens), offices, restaurants, stores, streets, they are all messy with ducts. The film does two things with the ducts that are brilliant, and justifies their purpose. First, there is a sub-plot (two scenes, really) where the main character's home becomes boiling hot because his duct work has gone haywire. It defines the functions and reasoning the ducts are there, and why they are a ridiculous nuisance everyone puts up with. This also opens up the introduction of Central Services Repair and the very-important minor character Harry Tuttle (played by Robert DeNiro). So there's plot function to the ducts. The second point is where it gets interesting: the first scene in the film is of a television report interview with a British government head discussing what sounds like a war happening, and acts of terrorism, and we as an audience have been placed on the losing side. This is immediately contrasted with Central Services adverts and an advert for ducts. Then an explosion happens, and we get our title screen. These three ideas in one moment give the viewer several bits of context. "There is a war, but they aren't calling it a war, cuz they're losing." "Ducts are important." "Central Services is ominous." "You can blow up in this city pretty easily." These are surface level questions, but it also implies a greater curiosity. "Is there really a war? Are these explosions actual acts of terrorism? Or are these explosions from faulty ducts? Is this whole terrorism thing a cover-up for shoddy workmanship from Central Services, trying to save a buck, and is all the bureaucracy we will be shown acts of cover-up?" So many questions given to the audience to mull over, and it's conveyed in about 60-120 seconds of film at most. "But Delicatessen is whimsical!" So is Brazil, a film with skyscrapers made out of filing cabinets, technological samurai monsters, and fantastical Icarus imagery. My point, in fewer words, is that Delicatessen doesn't properly set up it's whimsical nature or it's setting well in the first act, when it really needs it. Defining the world a bit more outside of the complex does not hurt any allegory you're working at. It succeeds in sharing it's silliness and set-up/delivery and practicality in it's opening segment of a man disguising himself as trash to escape being eaten, but it does not clue the audience in that this is a world where you can fill up an entire bathroom with water Shape of Water-style, or than an entire apartment can explode without it much affecting anything around it. I like whimsy, but I also like it to have an internal logic and not blind-side me with it. I'm reminded of playing games on the playground with friends, in a reality fully fueled by imagination. You're an ice wizard and your friend is a barbarian. You do a formation with your hands towards your friend and yell, "Now I blast you with ICE MAGIC!" And they say "Well, I actually am IMMUNE to ice magic because I have FIRE MAGIC." Except they don't, they were only playing as a barbarian. It's not fair, and the game's lost it's fun luster because we're making up new rules because it's convenient. This is a lot of words pointed at the film's flaws, because the flaws are a bit more interesting for me. The sense of humor didn't really click with me, but the charm sure did. It's a cute film. It's ambitious, and I appreciate it. It's an over-all good time. Dominique Pinon and Marie-Laure Dougnac are adorable, and Jean-Claude Dreyfus is a great villain. Karin Viard is also a nice foil, and gets some good humorous moments. The tone is charming as hell. (I can see why this movie gets recommended alongside Wristcutters: A Love Story so often.) It transcends it's flaws, for sure, and I do think it's a good movie. It just had potential to be a great movie. Franchescanado fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jan 12, 2022 |
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Jan 12, 2022 15:55
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What you said is probably the reason why Jeunet is considered to have really knocked it out of the park with Amelie, it was the moment when finally his whimsical style was balanced by a more grounded and relatable story that people could really latch onto. I love City of Lost Children, but I'd say it does have some of that same issue Fran is referring to where it doesn't feel totally cohesive as a world, it can come across as wacky for the sake of wacky at times. It's certainly not an easy trick though, Brazil is an iconic, timeless film for a reason. When you create an over the top dystopian world that ends up feeling more relevant 30 years later than it did when you made it, that's a huge accomplishment.
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Jan 12, 2022 16:11
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Basebf555 posted:What you said is probably the reason why Jeunet is considered to have really knocked it out of the park with Amelie, it was the moment when finally his whimsical style was balanced by a more grounded and relatable story that people could really latch onto. I love City of Lost Children, but I'd say it does have some of that same issue Fran is referring to where it doesn't feel totally cohesive as a world, it can come across as wacky for the sake of wacky at times. I'm definitely going to check out Jeunet's other films. I haven't seen Amelie yet, and I'm really interested in City of Lost Children. I do not like Alien Resurrection, though. Why does Jeunet get all the credit and Marc Caro get left out of the convo? Because he didn't collab on Amelie?
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Jan 12, 2022 16:16
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Yea it's probably because Caro wasn't involved in the two films Jeunet is most known for, Amelie and Alien Resurrection. I don't know the story of why he wasn't involved in Amelie(wikipedia says he did do some storyboards for Alien Resurrection), but his name is nowhere to be found in the credits. I mean, Jeunet is not a name we would even know if not for Amelie, that really was a huge movie. Sure, he did Alien Resurrection but if he'd done that and just faded away his name wouldn't be much more than a trivia question for Alien fans.
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Jan 12, 2022 16:20
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As far as I know, Jeunet and Caro had a disagreement when it came to Alien Resurrection, and that's when they split up.
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Jan 12, 2022 18:04
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Misery Division 15 Seed: (Goat's Team K🖕ng) Mike Flanagan's Before I Wake vs. (mbd's Indonesian Insanity) Joko Anwar's Impetigore aka “Perempuan Tanah Jahanam” vs. (Kangra's Sister Act 2: Backing the Habit) Oz Perkin's The Blackcoat's Daughter Before I Wake (2016)  The ending goes on for way too long, but the rest of Before I Wake is relatively solid. It gets the job done. It's also nice when characters in a movie solve a problem by not blowing anything up. Otherwise, I enjoyed watching it but I don't think I'll spend any time pondering it in the future. Impetigore (2019)  Impetigore starts strong -- establishing a spooky mood and delivering a mystery to solve. Then it spends most of the rest of its runtime cycling between building up scares, then winding down to prep for the next one. It also plays with conventions enough that even when you know how a scene is going to play out, it can still make you grimace. The only real downside is the overly long recap with the ghosts. The backstory is just complicated enough that it takes a while to spell everything out. It could have been much more straightforward without hurting the rest of the story. The Blackcoat's Daughter (2015)  I'm normally a sucker for movies like this, with the dark atmosphere, droning soundtrack, and mostly reserved performances. In fact I was really hyped about The Blackcoat's Daughter right as it ended. The problem is that the more I thought about it, the less I liked it. I think that the Joan/Kat thing was just not handled correctly and it really hurt the story. Impetigore gets my vote here.
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Jan 12, 2022 19:01
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