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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:See (don't see) Star Trek Discovery an example of what happens when you cut the fat. More about weaving minor plots and stretching them over several episodes instead of having one focused "flavor" episode. It's a normal way to do it in serialized dramas but it gets real muddled and weak. When I'm watching Disco and Picard I'm like, "These little plots could do well as a one hour bubble but stretched out over a season they are just bad."
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Jan 5, 2022 20:24
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Grand Fromage posted:For what it's worth people have asked JMS about the episode numbers and he's said nothing is decided until CW actually orders the first season. If he's going to write every episode himself again something like 14-16 might be a good spot. Enough to breathe, not so much it's unsustainable. I sincerely doubt JMS will want or be able to write every episode in a season again.
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Jan 5, 2022 22:45
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jng2058 posted:I sincerely doubt JMS will want or be able to write every episode in a season again. Perhaps not by himself, but I'm pretty sure he'll get a co-writer's credit on every episode with whoever is doing the dialogue and side story that week.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:03
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jng2058 posted:I sincerely doubt JMS will want or be able to write every episode in a season again. I hope he doesn't, that was rough when he was 25 years younger. I'm imagining he'll write most of the big ones and do the normal showrunner thing of having final edit on all the scripts.
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Jan 5, 2022 23:15
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Got back to rewatching some. "Teeps for telepaths, teeks for telekinetics" is a really weird line to casually say when there's no such thing as telekinetics so far as anyone in the psi-corps knows. Seems like part of how the psychic stuff isn't actually very well written. Man, I forgot about the spine bug episode. It's kind of a massive anticlimax how it turns out that there's not a massive conspiracy and the spine bug cult is actually fine and on the level and nobody has to eat mealworms or get phasered until they explode, but that in itself is a big twist on what you'd otherwise expect of the episode. I guess maybe I could complain that as archivists of knowledge, they don't seem to be big on sharing their knowledge, but I guess a lot of people in the galaxy know that bad times are a-comin', just like the technomages said as well. Corwin is a loser who wishes that he had just half of the charisma that the chevron guy had. I do think that his spinelessness accidentally encouraging romance between Marcus and Ivanova is genuinely a pretty funny bit. Marcus is a massive dork, but I respect that he must've been really fun for JMS to write. A writer getting an excuse to do weird clever jokes and drop references to the stuff they read. Probably more fun to write than it is to read or listen too, but I guess JMS was in the middle of his big run and needed a way to play around. I really like all the intrigue music, although I guess the way that the soundtrack is willing to bounce between that and other moods like an angelic choir really enhances the mood. I wanna say maybe season 3 got more money for music or better sound mixing, because it sounds less like synth? Sure is a day to watch the coup episode right before the anniversary of 1/6 and right after Kazakhstan's government fell apart. I guess there's a lot of ways coups can happen, and honestly a lot of the way B5's coup is done is actually drawing from the red scare. I guess we really are told that Clark's people are anti-alien a lot more than we see them being actually anti-alien, but I guess by the same token of Marcus, it's really not very fun to write like direct no-frills racism (although man, Vir's fiance later on sure gets some meaty racism). Where's Ari Ben Zayne when you need him. And then sequestered in the episode, there's diametrically opposed A and B plots with G'kar embracing his future as a spiritual leader and Londo desperately seeking spiritual guidance hoping maybe to not be a leader. It's kind of a shock when you know that poo poo's kicking off and Earth is having big drama to see the episode start with Londo trying to punch-down Vir's report about Minbar like he's done so much before. Real low-key.
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Jan 6, 2022 07:17
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SlothfulCobra posted:"Teeps for telepaths, teeks for telekinetics" is a really weird line to casually say when there's no such thing as telekinetics so far as anyone in the psi-corps knows. There is, it's just very rare and they all go crazy. One of the things the Corps has been trying to do is create a stable telekinetic.
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Jan 6, 2022 09:41
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https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/the-cw-for-sale-warnermedia-viacomcbs-1235070616/ So probably no B5 reboot.
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Jan 6, 2022 17:47
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MikusR posted:https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/the-cw-for-sale-warnermedia-viacomcbs-1235070616/ "Probably" doing a lot of work here. The reboot is more solid than the sale is. Also even if there is a sale, there's plenty of shows that keep getting made on a sale. And top of that, the largest owner of CW stations is one of the ones who might buy it.
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Jan 6, 2022 18:07
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"The network made money through streaming rights, but now everything's going on the in-house streaming service so doesn't directly make a profit" is a classic bit of arse backwards thinking
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Jan 6, 2022 18:23
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CainFortea posted:"Probably" doing a lot of work here. I mean, the CW is the poster child for this. Supernatural went from a network collapse in S1 directly into a writer's strike.
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Jan 6, 2022 19:16
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The CW was our last, best hope for a reboot. IT FAILED DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUN
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Jan 6, 2022 21:28
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What would be the point of buying a network if you didn't keep making shows for it?  If they said "CW to be closed down" then it'd be PTEN 's demise all over again, just before the show aired rather than four seasons in, but if someone's going to buy CW they presumably want to keep airing shows on it.
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Jan 6, 2022 22:56
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jng2058 posted:What would be the point of buying a network if you didn't keep making shows for it? Or an investment fund could buy it, cut down most of the staff to improve the on-paper profitability of the venture, then sell it at a profit to another fund.
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Jan 6, 2022 23:15
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Could just as easily mean, timeline depending, that the current leadership sign a bunch of contracts for WB-studio shows right before selling the network so that WB makes some extra money. So we could be looking at a Crusade-style pickup followed by a disaster. But most likely, it makes no difference at all.
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Jan 7, 2022 00:12
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Some of the Garibaldi season 4 stuff is so bad to me, and I don't know if it's because Jerry Doyle was a bad actor or something else. Everything about that plot and the scenes frustrates me. Also Jerry Doyle looked like Homer Simpson.
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Jan 8, 2022 01:42
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Narsham posted:Could just as easily mean, timeline depending, that the current leadership sign a bunch of contracts for WB-studio shows right before selling the network so that WB makes some extra money. So we could be looking at a Crusade-style pickup followed by a disaster. Crusade was a disaster because Ted Turner thought it belonged to him and he could dictate to JMS. It's arguable that had it been B5 Season 6, as was mooted at one point, he might have left it alone.
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Jan 8, 2022 02:27
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Super Deuce posted:Some of the Garibaldi season 4 stuff is so bad to me, and I don't know if it's because Jerry Doyle was a bad actor or something else. Everything about that plot and the scenes frustrates me. Also Jerry Doyle looked like Homer Simpson. Like a lot of the actors of B5, Jerry Doyle wasn't really "acting". He was just being himself in a weird sci-fi setting. Everything about Jerry Doyle the person frustrates me, so Michael Garibaldi the character being occasionally unpleasant is hitting way above par. Dude had a hardcore nazi power hour radio show.
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Jan 8, 2022 02:33
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No, he was acting. Because Garibaldi is far less of a fascist than Jerry Doyle.
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Jan 8, 2022 02:50
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MikusR posted:https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/the-cw-for-sale-warnermedia-viacomcbs-1235070616/
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Jan 8, 2022 04:30
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I thought they hated all the PTEN shows, that's why we are still deprived of kung fu The legend continues DVDs
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Jan 9, 2022 00:58
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Tighclops posted:I thought they hated all the PTEN shows, that's why we are still deprived of kung fu The legend continues DVDs You mean these DVDs, available for $43 per season on Amazon?
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Jan 9, 2022 08:12
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Tighclops posted:I thought they hated all the PTEN shows, that's why we are still deprived of kung fu The legend continues DVDs I think JMS confirmed that the executive at WB who hated B5 is no longer there. It’s never been clear whether that was based entirely on the PTEN thing, but some executive at WB harassed Pat Tallman and got her dropped from B5 when she wouldn’t submit, and I have to wonder whether it might have been the same guy. Not that JMS doesn’t have the kind of personality guaranteed to make a few enemies.
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Jan 9, 2022 16:42
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From the younger races thread:Powered Descent posted:s01e19-20 - A Voice in the Wilderness, Parts I and II That's such a good line of thought! And amusingly, B4 was not at this planet, but the alien machine still caused it's disappearance.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:25
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Torrannor posted:From the younger races thread: What? Yes it was.
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Jan 11, 2022 11:16
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Babylon 4 (and 1-3) weren't built in orbit of Epsilon III the way B5 was - it's why they had to travel to B4 by White Star when it reappeared in the present day
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Jan 11, 2022 11:45
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Seemlar posted:Babylon 4 (and 1-3) weren't built in orbit of Epsilon III the way B5 was - it's why they had to travel to B4 by White Star when it reappeared in the present day As per wiki, the Babylon Station was built in orbit of Epsilon III. We don't know for sure where B2 and B3 were built, but B4 was in part built from reclaimed materials from the first three stations and there would be no point whatsoever in shipping them to or from a different system. There would also be no point in returning construction of B5 to the Epsilon System after moving it elsewhere for the three stations in between. We also know that B4 was located three hours away from B5 in normal space. Sheridan et al travelled there in a White Star because it was a secret mission, but Sinclair and his rescue crews were able to get there in standard shuttles.
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Jan 11, 2022 12:46
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"Should we build Babylon 5 in the exact same space as Babylon 4?" "You mean the station that mysteriously disappeared leaving no debris or remains behind??? gently caress no. Move it a few hours that way."
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Jan 11, 2022 12:55
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3 hours at sublight sounds plausibly like a Lagrange point, given future tech.
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Jan 11, 2022 13:39
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This is one of those times when the show obviously decided that a few hours away is a few hours away and didn't want to get drawn into the weeds. Trying to sit there with a show bible and a team of astrophysicists to say "OK, the fuel capacity and engine performance of a shuttle means that the travel time from B5 on June whatever 2258 to the Epsilon 5 - local star L3 point == three hours" would condemn future writers to madness.
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Jan 11, 2022 17:22
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Every numbers above 2 and below 24 is a "few" regarding hours, imo.
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Jan 11, 2022 17:43
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I can't understand why after the civil war and the known psi corps involvement, the leadership of psi corps was allowed to continue... like, why is Sheridan not like, "arrest Bester".
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Jan 11, 2022 17:48
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Super Deuce posted:I can't understand why after the civil war and the known psi corps involvement, the leadership of psi corps was allowed to continue... like, why is Sheridan not like, "arrest Bester". Probably because Bester was the enemy he knew. There's no way to tell who is psychic, and Bester is obviously evil enough to have sleeper cells or something running around. You could probably do a whole bunch of episodes just on Bester fighting back from jail or his faction of the psi corps being terrorists. Not a plotline that they had time for I'd imagine.
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Jan 11, 2022 19:14
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I'm not really sure how complicit Psi Corps were with Clarke, they endorsed him early on, but at some point he sold them out to the Shadows, so Bester helped Sheridan's side of the civil war.
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Jan 11, 2022 19:58
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The final book in the telepath trilogy ended with Bester dying in jail after the telepath war. Not a lot of details were given, but Garibaldi did get to take Bester down.
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Jan 11, 2022 20:02
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SlothfulCobra posted:I'm not really sure how complicit Psi Corps were with Clarke, they endorsed him early on, but at some point he sold them out to the Shadows, so Bester helped Sheridan's side of the civil war. Sheridan knows Bester hosed with Garibaldi directly leading to his getting captured by Clarke's forces. You'd think that'd be enough to want to at least question him. There are other things, too, but that alone you'd think would be enough to investigate.
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Jan 11, 2022 20:02
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Most members of the psi Corp were good people doing what they thought was best for their people. The exception is the omega groups but they were mostly drawn from aliens and shouldn't really count against the Corp. Stories about brainwashing are exaggerations, the tools Bester used on Garibaldi are standard practice for therapy. You can think of it as delousing his mind.
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Jan 11, 2022 20:28
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Psi corps apologia. Now I’ve seen it all, ITT.
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Jan 11, 2022 20:41
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Chevy Slyme posted:Psi corps apologia. Now I’ve seen it all, ITT. Corps is Mother, Corps is Father, OP.
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Jan 11, 2022 20:53
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Super Deuce posted:I can't understand why after the civil war and the known psi corps involvement, the leadership of psi corps was allowed to continue... like, why is Sheridan not like, "arrest Bester". I think this may get discussed earlier on: what evidence can you deploy against Bester in court? Suppose they go after him for what he did to Garibaldi. They only possible way to prove it in court would be through the testimony of a telepath, but in Earth courts only a Psi Corps telepath can testify. So the Psi Corps would have to want to throw Bester to the wolves in order for you to nail him. The IA just got formed, so working out jurisdictional issues will take years, and even after you do, Earth Gov might refuse to extradite Bester. (America happily refuses to do that for the International Court of Justice.) You'd have to lure him into another jurisdiction and hope you can pass judgment before Earth protests. The Psi Corps has disproportionate political sway because telepaths make the perfect blackmailers. Even better, Psi Corps gets to apply pressure by just hinting that bad things might come to light if a politician presses too hard, because everyone who believes them to be corrupt is going to assume that they're misusing their powers frequently, and anyone who thinks them honest will push back against accusations out of that belief. In the end, though, the truth of the matter is that Bester's sufficiently influential within the Corps that if you did arrest him, you might be initiating a chain of events that lead to the Telepath War. Not the sort of thing to be done lightly. Taking down Bester, or anyone more important than him in Psi Corps, essentially means taking down Psi Corps entirely.
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Jan 11, 2022 20:55
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Chevy Slyme posted:Psi corps apologia. Now I’ve seen it all, ITT. I once saw someone online go on a huge tear about how Psi Corps are absolutely the good guys and anything they do is morally justified as fighting for the survival/liberation of an oppressed minority. It turned out their read of the series was heavily informed by some books (and I think some personal fanfiction as well)
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Jan 11, 2022 21:31
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