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Failed Imagineer posted:The pets part is right tho What's the energy conversion efficiency of kibble though.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:00
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Stay warm by hollowing out your pet and climbing inside
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Jan 11, 2022 10:02
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Failed Imagineer posted:The pets part is right tho Yeah I suppose when my guinea pigs piss on me it is a bit warm.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:12
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Failed Imagineer posted:The pets part is right tho Now my face is slimy and my goldfish is dead. Also I'm still not warm. Now what?
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Jan 11, 2022 10:12
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Nenonen posted:Now my face is slimy and my goldfish is dead. Also I'm still not warm. Now what? You obviously should’ve used a cuddlefish instead.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:13
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Pistol_Pete posted:Re: new left-wing party chat, I'd take the example of right-wing politics to explain how it could be super-successful. I'd like to believe it, but I'm not convinced by this. I'd say UKIP were successful because they had a very clear, easily grasped purpose that connected with long standing historical mores and cultural grievances that they could stoke but didn't create whole cloth (general racism, anitpathy towards the EU, British exceptionalism etc). At the same time, because they weren't ever really a parliamentary party, their other non-leaving EU policies didn't really matter all that much to people. A new left wing party wouldn't have that same simplicity, which would make it much harder to penetrate the public consciousness (even aside from the impact of the media). UKIP could affect the Tories because of the constant rumbling threat of an EU referendum, but a left wing party would have be a specific parliamentary threat. The closest analogue for a non right wing success would be a nationalist party like the SNP or Plaid, who have the same broad clarity of purpose and long standing historical/cultural themes to play with. But in the case of Scotland at least I don't think that's done much, if anything, to shift parties or public opinion or governance on a left/right axis.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:19
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i can’t remember where i read it but some political scientist proposed that the right are more accepting of far right ideology, so the tory party and liberals are more likely to pander to a party like UKIP, whereas a left wing party is completely against what the political centre would accept so there’s absolutely no chance of the labour party being pulled left, which has been clearly seen again and again
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Jan 11, 2022 10:24
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Niric posted:I'd like to believe it, but I'm not convinced by this. I'd say UKIP were successful because they had a very clear, easily grasped purpose that connected with long standing historical mores and cultural grievances that they could stoke but didn't create whole cloth (general racism, anitpathy towards the EU, British exceptionalism etc). At the same time, because they weren't ever really a parliamentary party, their other non-leaving EU policies didn't really matter all that much to people. Also don't forget UKIP's positions had considerable support within the Tory party itself. Cameron didn't promise a referendum because he was scared of Farage becoming PM, he did it because he was scared of being shanked by the ERG on the pretense that *they* were scared of Farage becoming PM. The only support for nationalising energy companies - to pick an almost universally popular policy among the electorate - in Labour comes from the MPs who would presumably be the nucleus of a new party.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:26
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Unfortunately though the far-right projects were pandering to a voter base who had been coddled and courted by every party since 1979, and so react with frothing rage the moment things don't go exactly as they've been promised they'll go, and were supported by huge thermals of coverage from a press that broadly agreed with them. A new left-wing party has to engage an electorate deliberately ignored and beaten down for that time, who see no point in voting at all, and will face a degree of press hostility that will make what Corbyn, Abbott et. al. went through look tame. It's not even so good. Positing a left wing party splitting off from Labour as the equivalent of UKIP overlooks that UKIP's success in goals but not elections came about because the majority of Tories either wanted what they wanted or were happy to sway with the breeze. The majority of the PLP do not want left wing policies, nor are they willing to sway even for the chance of entering government. They are rank opportunists who joined Labour because the Tories wouldn't have them, and have been quite clear that they would rather serve in Hell than reign in Heaven. They cannot be pressured in the same way, and don't really even care about losing elections as long as they get onto the post-MP consultancy carousel.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:27
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Reveilled posted:I always found it amusing how this picture makes it look like The Emperor of Man is wearing flares, like Horus attacked earth while the Emperor was at the dancing and he didn't have time to change out of his threads before having the fight that led to him getting dumped on the throne. Maybe he's only called the emperor of man cause he was wearing a huge necklace with a male symbol pendant when it happened. They're actually JNCOs.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:30
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A left-UKIP would need a left wing Labour Party to work Starmer's Labour would just do the opposite of what a left wing party said and show off to the electorate how sensible and grown up they are for it
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Jan 11, 2022 10:33
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Nenonen posted:Now my face is slimy and my goldfish is dead. Also I'm still not warm. Now what? Use a jellyfish and you'll be on fire.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:38
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Borrovan posted:A left-UKIP would need a left wing Labour Party to work The goal of a new left party has to be the death of Labour. Which because of the perilous state of their finances is a very achievable goal. Just stop donating to them every month with your membership. Encourage your union to do likewise
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Jan 11, 2022 10:38
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if the labour party collapses i wouldn’t be surprised if the vast majority of “labour” voters would have absolutely zero loyalty to the new party, equally likely to vote lib dems or greens on the day
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Jan 11, 2022 10:41
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I don't think media support is necessary for it to work: think of the huge surge of support for Labour that happened in 2017, despite the entire mainstream media ferociously attacking the left. And as for Labour preferring to remaining staunchly Centrist rather than making any concessions to the left, yes, that's a possible outcome but not necessarily a bad one. Labour can't win without the broad support of the left, so forcing them into a situation where they either have to change or do a PASOK are both good outcomes imo.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:42
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With the media ecology we have I can’t see a left wing Farage-type figure being given any exposure, and therefore there’d be no pressure for the Labour Party to shift leftwards. Also with FPTP, no matter how right wing Labour become they’ll always be the ‘less bad’ option, so most leaning people will vote for them.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:48
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FPTP interacting with this observation on social values entails a Tory-esque party and an anti-Tory-esque party at a constituency level. The former are fewer in number nationally, which virtually guarantees permanent splittism and bickering amongst the latter. Sudden displacement of the non-Tory party is certainly possible - just ask Scotland - but the price to be paid is that said party likewise converges rapidly toward the median anyway - just ask the SNP's more socialist 79-esque supporters.
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Jan 11, 2022 10:50
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Mebh posted:Realistically what IS the best possible outcome? . PM Truss
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Jan 11, 2022 10:54
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Communist Thoughts posted:PM Truss Moving to a different country.
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Jan 11, 2022 11:03
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Nenonen posted:Now my face is slimy and my goldfish is dead. Also I'm still not warm. Now what? Climb into the terrarium and cuddle your turtle as you both bask under the heat lamp
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Jan 11, 2022 11:13
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Pistol_Pete posted:And as for Labour preferring to remaining staunchly Centrist rather than making any concessions to the left, yes, that's a possible outcome but not necessarily a bad one. Labour can't win without the broad support of the left, so forcing them into a situation where they either have to change or do a PASOK are both good outcomes imo. You're not understanding. The Labour right do not need to win to get what they want, because what they want is to get on the post-political gravy train.
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Jan 11, 2022 11:20
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Not to excuse Labour but it is very rare that a left splinter group actually works to push the Overton window to their favour. This isn't just an issue with FPTP either. Ireland has PBP and Solidarity but neither get much traction with the wide media. While they have a few seats, they nationally poll within MOE. The only way that I can envision a left splinter group push their view into mainstream is during massive time of upheaval. Still, even historically, it hasn't taken in most cases. Mostly quashed by the media class or direct intervention by USA/UK/et al. I don't think Corbyn setting up his party is a bad thing and I would potentially support it depending on other groups in my constituency. Wouldn't get my hopes up though. Jedit posted:You're not understanding. The Labour right do not need to win to get what they want, because what they want is to get on the post-political gravy train. This is also a significant point. Labour right benefit off of capitalist institutions and have no reason to consider attacking them, even in false promises to win votes.
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Jan 11, 2022 11:27
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The SNP tracking left to steal Labour's dinner seemed to only have the effect of making Scottish Labour double down on it's Blairite awfulness. Even when they had a nominally 'left' leader, the party as a whole undermined him and pushed him out (in fairness he was also really poo poo). Probably what happens when all of our left wing grassroots head out the exit, leaving your party as a hollowed out husk of Jackie Baillie and George Foulkes types.
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Jan 11, 2022 11:28
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keep punching joe posted:The SNP tracking left to steal Labour's dinner seemed to only have the effect of making Scottish Labour double down on it's Blairite awfulness. Even when they had a nominally 'left' leader, the party as a whole undermined him and pushed him out. Probably what happens when all of our left wing grassroots head out the exit, leaving your party as a hollowed out husk of Jackie Baillie and George Foulkes types. I think a significant issue here is Scottish Labour could not present a left-leaning unionist argument and were prevented/didn't want to support a nationalist position. The former is probably because left-wing unionism will always co-opt the arguments of the right-wing unionist, which means nationalists will not trust it. Scottish Labour are snookered in their position right now and I cannot see them recovering except in extraordinary circumstances.
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Jan 11, 2022 11:33
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https://twitter.com/AyoCaesar/status/1480613238731595782
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Jan 11, 2022 11:55
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Ignoring what wider political impact Corbyn setting up a party might have, I guess he might reckon, with labour apparently not readmitting him, being a party rather than just an independent might be beneficial in his own constituency come election time?
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Jan 11, 2022 12:24
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Not so much a whistle as a foghorn tbh
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Jan 11, 2022 12:41
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Doghorn 
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Jan 11, 2022 12:45
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Please tell me there is a video of this.
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Jan 11, 2022 13:19
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You're in luck. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21lLLBNREzI more coherent than all those ratatouille looking mfs journalisming about
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Jan 11, 2022 13:23
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I just hope if we do get a new left party we give it a decent name, all these 'love and fairness and honesty party' type names make me cringe into the earth.
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Jan 11, 2022 13:29
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ThomasPaine posted:I just hope if we do get a new left party we give it a decent name, all these 'love and fairness and honesty party' type names make me cringe into the earth. British Bolshevik Brigade
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Jan 11, 2022 13:35
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If Die Linke, Levice, Levica, Lewica, La Sinistra, Déi Lénk, and La Izquierda are good enough for Europe then why not just The Left?
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Jan 11, 2022 13:38
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ThomasPaine posted:I just hope if we do get a new left party we give it a decent name, all these 'love and fairness and honesty party' type names make me cringe into the earth. I've always been partial to just "The Left", as in Germany.
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Jan 11, 2022 13:40
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Murderkill doom death party (marxist leninist)
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Jan 11, 2022 13:41
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A Corbyn founded party would be doomed from the outset regardless of the name imo, he should just lean into it and run on a Peace and Love Alliance For Feeding The Ducks platform
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Jan 11, 2022 13:44
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Mourning Due posted:Ditto with Corbyn. He was a firebrand being forced to act like Keith. If he had his own party, he could drive the national discourse in a much stronger way than he ever could within the confines of Labour. If he cuts the Gordian knot instead of trying to untangle it, we may have a real chance. Corbyn is a good man trying to do nice things for the country, and his biggest barrier to success is that he will never fully appeal to the spiteful and vindictive mindset of your average Brit. I'm not saying for one second that he should, but I just have in my head the image of a red faced thumb man in Weatherspoons going "Wot, peace and justice party? Woss 'e want peace for, so he can kiss blokes? 'ats fackin gay, love a good war, me. Where's yer fackin poppy?" What we need is to give John McDonnell a half-brick so he can run up behind that person and [TWITTER BANNABLE CONTENT] them. Niric posted:A new left wing party wouldn't have that same simplicity, which would make it much harder to penetrate the public consciousness (even aside from the impact of the media). UKIP could affect the Tories because of the constant rumbling threat of an EU referendum, but a left wing party would have be a specific parliamentary threat. The name branding would have to be as clear in intent as UKIP was to prevent a bunch of wreckers joining, even something like 'the Momentum party' could end up with Akehurst going "We're building momentum... Toward sensible means-tested and business-friendly politics!" Or, "We're reshaping the union party - into a union of left-and-right values demographically selected to test well with red wall voters!" But the other problem is I can only imagine how absolutely insane the takes would get if Corbyn started any party with the word socialist in the name. forkboy84 posted:Just stop donating to them every month with your membership. Encourage your union to do likewise The power the unions have is bilateral. They need a big party backing them to protect striking workers and stopping Priti Patel closing them down as terror cells. But the party that has them is also beholden to their demands so they don't lose their contributions. That's always been the lock, except you have a leadership right now that are openly hostile to the unions and would <starmer>welcome them to leave, but I would go further by urging the unions to spit in my mouth as they leave</starmer> It's like mutually assured destruction, in that it stops working if one side (the labour right) just goes "Fine, nuke my civilians, I don't give a poo poo."
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Jan 11, 2022 13:45
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I agree, just 'the left' would be fine
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Jan 11, 2022 13:48
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No Dignity posted:A Corbyn founded party would be doomed from the outset regardless of the name imo, he should just lean into it and run on a Peace and Love Alliance For Feeding The Ducks platform He'd get a few MPs, I'd say. He and Diane Abbott seem to be bulletproof electorally in their constituencies, for example.
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Jan 11, 2022 13:49
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Doubtful that would hold up without the labour branding, people overwhelmingly vote for parties, not people.
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Jan 11, 2022 13:50
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