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Moktaro posted:The dream is over, we drew away to MK Dons and got pasted 5-1, with two red cards to boot. Sucks when the ref's kid has a gambling problem and the bookies want your team to lose but what can you do? It's cool and good that FM models that, I like my verisimilitude in my "what if every football club had functionally infinite money" alt-universe footy simulator.
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Jan 6, 2022 00:28
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Eh, we were big underdogs and I wasn't expecting to win. Just glad enough fans showed up to give us a payday. Also the previous round had our first capacity crowd ever (1750, lol).
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Jan 6, 2022 04:01
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decided to play a big team for once and immediately won the prem in my first season as Arsenal with the only significant signing being Isak. gegepressing is still sick as hell spent the cash reward on buying haaland so i dunno if i'll rotate between them or try to make Isak an Inside Forward
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Jan 6, 2022 13:59
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Eric the Mauve posted:Sucks when the ref's kid has a gambling problem and the bookies want your team to lose but what can you do? It's cool and good that FM models that, I like my verisimilitude in my "what if every football club had functionally infinite money" alt-universe footy simulator. I'd rather have a football/baseball sim where teams have equal resources, but that's less somehow even less likely than infinite.
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Jan 6, 2022 17:15
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I mean you can do that in OOTP but it requires regular maintenance. The tendency of teams that win in the first few years of a long sim to snowball into unstoppable juggernauts (because under the hood every team is being managed by the same AI with only relatively minor tweaks, so the ones that win this year gain more resources, thus become more likely to win next year, etc.) is endemic to all sports simulations so far. FM tries to resist this by applying complacency penalties to player performance under the hood, but they aren't nearly strong enough and couldn't be made strong enough without pissing off human players; and by pumping up players' rep when they win trophies, thus making them more likely to demand things and get unsettled, but this fails because money is functionally infinite and because the usual result is the unhappy players are sold for more than they're worth and replaced with cheaper and often better players, resulting in the whole exercise being a net positive for the snowballing team. I know from numerous experiences that for instance if you use the editor to wreck Bayern and PSG and Juve, the usual result is that Dortmund and Monaco and Inter replace them and rip off 20 straight titles. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jan 6, 2022 |
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Jan 6, 2022 17:40
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Why is it so hard to implement a hard salary cap, at least in OotP where there is only one league, where every team has the same payroll restrictions? The tendency for good players to become incredibly greedy bastards should take care of the rest. It works in games like Madden. The idea is that winning doesn't necessarily bring more resources. Well, it might, but the limits of what a team can spend on player salaries are still fixed across leagues. Again, a number of major sports leagues have salary caps: the NFL and NHL have a card cap while the NBA has a softer cap with a luxury tax and so on.
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Jan 6, 2022 18:20
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OOTP does have a salary cap option, though?
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Jan 6, 2022 18:23
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Yeah, it's not hard, just unrealistic in relation to the leagues they're trying to simulate, so it's buried in optional challenges (ie, the hard cap option in OOTP or just playing in MLS/Australia in FM). It wouldn't be hard for a modder to implement a hard cap in any individual league in FM (and doing it for ALL of them would mostly just be tedious rather than difficult), I just don't get the impression it would be a popular mod?
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Jan 6, 2022 19:12
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The Slovenian second division has a hard salary cap in FM so it's definitely possible without goofy rules like the MLS. Tho this all sounds like one of those experiments you see on youtube all the time "I locked Mbappe at Bath City for 70 years, lets see what happens!"
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Jan 6, 2022 19:24
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JustJeff88 posted:I'd rather have a football/baseball sim where teams have equal resources, but that's less somehow even less likely than infinite. I certainly don't have functionally infinite money. Though I am roleplaying this as the club being run by a rich group, just targeting their spending in a particular way rather than just buying the best players you can.
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Jan 6, 2022 22:54
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The board gives you only so much of a budget but there is no way for a team to actually become insolvent in FM, ownership will just keep tossing money in as needed. If you really put a lot of effort into it a team can get driven into administration here and there but again, no existential consequences really, the game will soon go "oh a consortium bought the team everything is cool and good now". In lesser leagues it's actually really common in FM for the board to give you more of a budget than the club's finances can actually support, believe it or not. The team loses money every year and mostly every year ends with ownership going "oh hey here's another mil".
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Jan 6, 2022 23:21
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Oh yeah that, I actually got close to 400k in the red once which is a ton for a semi-pro Tier 7 club. Would be interesting if a big Premier League club could get the Rangers treatment for debt.
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Jan 7, 2022 00:12
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I think that having a salary cap is actually kind of the ultimate challenge, long-term. Yes, it is hard to be a nobody and become a mega-bastard, but after that it's cruising. Having everyone with the same resources year-to-year means that everyone has to make tough decisions, cut salary at some points, and hope that the few high-priced stars stay healthy. Given how short footballers' careers are it sounds quite challenging, but I am probably projecting a North American sport philosophy onto a system that was not built for it.Eric the Mauve posted:OOTP does have a salary cap option, though? I asked in a forum about the game and someone said that it was sort of possible, but difficult, then went on to describe the way to do it which was more than I cared to do. Mind you, MLB is probably the second most inegalitarian sport in the world, behind international association football.
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Jan 7, 2022 05:28
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If your finances are bad enough in FM, the board (or administrators) will sell off your training facilities. Which is certainly an "existential consequence". I did once manage Barcelona, who'd been relegated to the 3rd tier of Spanish football because they essentially turned into real-life Barcelona, went broke and had to sell all their decent players. But that was several years ago, and I don't see that sort of fall-from-grace as often any more.
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Jan 7, 2022 10:18
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And your youth facilities
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Jan 7, 2022 12:03
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Everyone having the same resources is easy mode because the ai is nowhere near as capable as a human manager. Without bullies swinging their financial dick around, unsettling your players, there are no final bosses to overcome. Talent gets spread thin across a huge number of clubs rather than concentrated at a few. It's already pretty easy to win any league with a midtable wage bill. Handicapping the giants isn't going to make our job harder.
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Jan 7, 2022 13:32
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Deep into my save and have taken a break from club football and am managing Australia at the 2038 World Cup. Seven of my 23-man squad are from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katanning,_Western_Australia, a town of about 3,700 people. There's clearly something in the water there. Also Harry Kane is managing Brentford in the Premier League and Son Heung-Min is his Assistant Manager, which makes me smile.
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Jan 8, 2022 04:10
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That reminds me, in every FM game I've ever played (back to FM18) Brentford has shot straight to the Premier League and stayed there for decades. Is it just me? I thought Miles was a Watford supporter.
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Jan 8, 2022 04:17
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Eric the Mauve posted:That reminds me, in every FM game I've ever played (back to FM18) Brentford has shot straight to the Premier League and stayed there for decades. Is it just me? I thought Miles was a Watford supporter. Brentford are probably one of the best run clubs in the world, the fact it took them so long to get to the premier league was down to bad luck more than anything.
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Jan 8, 2022 05:34
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sassassin posted:Everyone having the same resources is easy mode because the ai is nowhere near as capable as a human manager. Without bullies swinging their financial dick around, unsettling your players, there are no final bosses to overcome. Talent gets spread thin across a huge number of clubs rather than concentrated at a few. I see your point - mediocre AI brings down a lot of single-player games - but there's also the scenario that I see where once the little, poor,j player-run club becomes a megabastard they stay there forever. That's unsatisfying as well. There should be some challenge in staying formidable and not just getting there. FM is unrealistic in that very poor clubs can become very wealthy via performance, and that's not entirely realistic. Again, I see your point and I also see why it is not viable, but I'm still sad to see that everyone with equal resources trying to compete isn't really viable.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:47
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I've taken my local team from Vanarama North to the Premier League, we've been there a couple of seasons now - but the board refuse to sanction an U23/Reserve team. Is there some sort of magic requirement I need to hit in order for them to agree? £120M in the bank, good facilities, new stadium etc
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Jan 10, 2022 15:50
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I had a very similar thing with Accrington at the beginning of my current save (now in 2032). I had the club in the Champions League and the board still for three years adamantly refused to push the youth setup to category one, so I hosed off to PSG. Whereupon they immediately, like within a month of my departure, announced they were both improving the youth facilities and upgrading their youth category. Needless to say they were relegated two years later. You can take a chairman out of the lower leagues, but you can't take the lower leagues out of him.
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Jan 10, 2022 16:11
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Stotty posted:I've taken my local team from Vanarama North to the Premier League, we've been there a couple of seasons now - but the board refuse to sanction an U23/Reserve team. How big is your squad? I think you need to have enough players to justify it before you can get one set up.
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Jan 10, 2022 20:15
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It's not super big, but it's sort of catch-22. Doesn't seem much point in increasing the squad by a large amount when none of them get reserve team football to stay reasonably match fit. Guess I'll keep some of the youth team on long term and promote them to the seniors see if I can push it through that way. My other biggest grievance with this version is that my GK and CBs absolutely refuse to acknowledge the presence of the Full-backs. They will pass between each other in ever decreasing distances before hoofing it pointlessly up pitch. Meanwhile each of the full backs is stood in 30 yards of space. Stotty fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jan 10, 2022 |
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Jan 10, 2022 20:27
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Playing FM21 and Haaland is basically a cheat code. Signed him in January of the second season for Manchester United and he has scored 22 in 17 including four in the CL semi first leg and a hat trick in a title fight six-pointer against Liverpool.
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Jan 10, 2022 22:19
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Stotty posted:My other biggest grievance with this version is that my GK and CBs absolutely refuse to acknowledge the presence of the Full-backs. They will pass between each other in ever decreasing distances before hoofing it pointlessly up pitch. Meanwhile each of the full backs is stood in 30 yards of space. That's something I've moaned about to them before.
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Jan 10, 2022 23:58
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Wonder if FM23 will finally have Man Utd players rated like the poo poo they are IRL instead of always being a world class squad every FM game. Edit: this come across as hostile but I just read a post on Ralf Ragnick planning to gut the squad and had to reflex post this.
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Jan 11, 2022 01:38
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iirc all the ratings are basically done by fan volunteers
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Jan 11, 2022 02:21
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not just the players but also the entire backroom staff at United have ridiculously high hidden ratings, always have, probably always will
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Jan 11, 2022 02:26
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sebzilla posted:Playing FM21 and Haaland is basically a cheat code. Liverpool signed Haaland for £70 million in my current save and they've won the title every year since
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Jan 11, 2022 16:35
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Liverpool didn't sign him in my save and they won the title 11 straight years anyway. Whichever team holds the league title when each edition comes out will pretty much win every league title forever until the player intervenes in my experience. The snowball effect is really powerful in FM.
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Jan 11, 2022 17:22
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Liverpool finished 3rd last season though.
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Jan 11, 2022 19:01
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Lot of people saying Klopp and Pep trade jobs which is hilarious Lot of people saying Arsenal become nearly unstoppable in a lot of games I'm just here at Millwall trying to make The Den into Camp Den with my gegenpressing vertical tiki taka only with british troglodytes and the board are furious Too bad it's the only viable tactic style in the game
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Jan 11, 2022 19:16
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Stotty posted:Liverpool finished 3rd last season though. Yeah I'm still on FM21. Every save I've done so far Pep has quit City to take the Spain job as soon as it becomes available. On my current save he was fired when Spain bombed out in the second round of the 2030 World Cup and then immediately took the England job. It's the mid-2030s and Conte is still at Inter, who have won 11 of the last 12 Serie A scudetti. Arsenal got a Tycoon in the mid-2020s but still have yet to win jack poo poo, they finish 3rd-5th every year.
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Jan 11, 2022 19:22
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My typical game of FM is me working my way up from Vanarama North, so this doesn't usually have a big impact on my game, but now I'm in the Premier League - all the VAR stuff in game adds absolutely nothing to my experience. Just seems so utterly pointless. The new save options are kinda nice, but it would be better if you could mix and match for the auto-saves. After matches and every 30/60 mins real time would be perfect. Am I blind, thick or both? Is there any option in game to get the game timeline to look like it did previously :- 
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Jan 11, 2022 21:13
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OoohU posted:Wonder if FM23 will finally have Man Utd players rated like the poo poo they are IRL instead of always being a world class squad every FM game. It's difficult because the CA16 guidelines are mostly based on league position and Man Utd finished 2nd last season. Betting odds are also a significant influence, which biases ratings towards popular teams even further. United didn't have a bad summer of transfers (on paper) with Sancho, Varane and Ronaldo added to the squad, and only Dan James leaving permanently. Manchester UFC have a CA16 of 156, and a Consistency16 of 13.25, which is a fair step below Liverpool (162, 15.2) and Man City (165, 14.8) and just below Chelsea (158, 14.5). Spurs, Arsenal and Leicester are in the next band down, and I don't think there's a convincing argument that they should all be higher. There's only so much that can be done with the numbers. Any league is winnable with a mid-table quality side if you get the right tactical approach and ride the morale wave, and ai managers play by the same rules human players do, they're just dumber in way that can't be helped with high staff CA numbers. Pep is locked into his tactical approach whether it works in this year's match engine or not.
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Jan 11, 2022 21:24
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Azhais posted:iirc all the ratings are basically done by fan volunteers Yes, but there is oversight. Head researchers set targets for CA and check you're not going crazy. When Ryan Shawcross is being signed by Barcelona they send an email and get it changed (usually).
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Jan 11, 2022 21:28
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Are there any checks at all preventing you from setting the Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, and Temperament of every player and every staff member of your team to 17+ though, I mean use the editor and look under the hood at the hidden ratings of almost everyone at ManU sometime
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Jan 11, 2022 21:33
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how has everyone been using WCBs? i'm giving this a shot because i'm bored of gegenpressing
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Jan 11, 2022 21:58
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Eric the Mauve posted:Are there any checks at all preventing you from setting the Ambition, Loyalty, Pressure, and Temperament of every player and every staff member of your team to 17+ though, I mean use the editor and look under the hood at the hidden ratings of almost everyone at ManU sometime I don't need the editor, I have access to the live database. There are a few eyebrow-raisers in there. Pogba with 10 Loyalty... that probably looks like a savage rating to someone who gives out 15+ for most attributes in their squad, but objectively he should right down in the 1/2/3 region. The thing is it likely wouldn't make a difference to how likely he is to stay as Man UFC can afford to pay him enough regardless. Ambition isn't a factor as they're a very high rep club. Temperament and Pressure don't really matter if you're winning most games. The hidden attributes are mostly fine margin stuff that makes a bigger difference to lesser teams who have to struggle. Consistency is the big one as it's such a simple equation (consistency/25 likelihood of playing to their visible attributes in any game) with a significant effect on performance (iirc ~10CA drop-off, but doesn't impact physicals at all. So teams of fast lads have an advantage that has nothing to do with ratings there). It's a common enough complaint behind the scenes every year so there's no way it's not being looked at. There is NO conspiracy, and I haven't been paid anything to say this.
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Jan 11, 2022 22:39
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