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Endorph posted:true, this is why emet is so popular. wait Well you see, with Emet-Selch they used a different technique. CJ posted:Yeah it sucks that they had to put effort into writing Emet for people to like him. Which is one part that, and one part making a sassy rear end in a top hat bad guy for all those sassy rear end in a top hat bad guy enjoyers out there.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:01
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It is okay for characters to be openly friendly without it being a cruel manipulation.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:01
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Macaluso posted:Really I can't think of a single character I outright dislike, with sort of the exception being that Heavensward elf boy who I don't even remember his name, he is that much of a nothing burger to me.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:05
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All this talk about G'raha in Endwalker has reminded me I don't even remember most of his scene in it. There was the Ultima Thule scene with Stigma, the argument in the Forum, I think he was the guy that remembered Elidibus was still in the Tower... I'm sure he had other scenes, because I trust most of you aren't pulling things out your rear end when you talk about his characterization in EW, but I don't remember a lick of it.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:25
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he ate a burger
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Jan 11, 2022 23:26
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he went exarch mode when thavnair was panicking and rallied the civilians to safety
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Jan 11, 2022 23:27
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I think he was the one who suggested to use allagan nonsense from coil in the rocket ship???
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Jan 11, 2022 23:29
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He reenacted Paladin moves from the trailer.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:31
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He made the smooth rock start playing.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:34
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he took a nap and made cute waking-up noises when you sat next to him
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Jan 11, 2022 23:37
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I like Graha but I liked him more as the Exarch. Thought it's not the first time in FFXIV that the writer's understanding I wanted to date a character and started pushing them more that way, just kinda made me less into them.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:39
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Vitamean posted:huh? I kinda felt this way as well with some things. The game does a poor job of connecting the Scions to Louisoix and the twins and it's easy to miss stuff in the cutscene avalanche. This video someone posted that was apparently in the ARR collector's edition release would help to ground new players although it is a bit overlong. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXc0loyuq9I
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Jan 11, 2022 23:45
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the Exarch is top tier but a big part of the character's appeal (imo) is the melancholy and bittersweetness of duty fulfilled at great personal sacrifice that you by necessity kind of have to ditch if he actually gets to re-live life and have cool adventures with you. I don't like fun adventurer G'raha any less but Exarch just hits different
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Jan 11, 2022 23:49
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Macaluso posted:Graha is great and people that don't like him should probably prepare themselves because I think he's going to be a constant character for a while on the next adventure. Though I don't think we're going to stop seeing any of the crew, I do think Graha is going to be a much more constant presence going forward than the others. I think Krile is going to start hanging out more. Hopefully without her hood on because her little pony tail is so cute I could die. The problem is G'Raha is a completely drained character as of 5.3 and he's just tagging along now. he had one good scene in Endwalker where he took charge in Thavnair but the rest of the time he followd you around like a lost puppy. I think they should have him leave for a while and mature a bit (despite being 100 years old already), then if he comes back have him be more independent.
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Jan 11, 2022 23:53
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I think he worked fine as part of an ensemble cast in ew. Like, the story doesn't need to have big things for him to do, because there's too many people and not enough things that need doing. So they just give him some cute scenes with boyfriend vibes and it's fine. I don't think he's particularly worse off than say, Thancred or Urianger
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Jan 11, 2022 23:57
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he displayed as much agency and initiative as any of the Scions without taking up too much of the spotlight, I thought they did a really good job with that. they also managed to slot Estinien in pretty well as the new guy
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Jan 12, 2022 00:01
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The problem is every time he gets a chance to talk he tries to go into sappy speech mode. The act is wearing thin.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:04
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I understand why G’raha wouldn’t be everyone’s type of character, but considering that I’m on one side of the spectrum (one of my favorite, if not outright favorite, NPCs in the game) and my friend was on the other (WoL totally put off by his fanboying), we both agreed that EW did a good job of mostly threading the impossible needle for both of our characters. G’raha wasn’t actually particularly clingy in the EW MSQ. He mostly interacts with your character in group discussions, and the scenes where he’s most active have very little to do with you. You have the choice whether or not he shows up to visit you in your room, he has other poo poo to do at the very end of the MSQ instead of waiting around for you. He doesn’t say anything weird during his walk around scenes with you, and, I believe the first one is optional? Yes, the scene in Ultima Thule is very fanboy-ish and you don’t have a “cut this poo poo out” option in response. But other than that, he’s literally no more clingy than any other Scion.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:06
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CJ posted:The problem is G'Raha is a completely drained character as of 5.3 and he's just tagging along now. he had one good scene in Endwalker where he took charge in Thavnair but the rest of the time he followd you around like a lost puppy. I think they should have him leave for a while and mature a bit (despite being 100 years old already), then if he comes back have him be more independent. Here's the thing though: I like him and want him to stay. He has not been drained of being my good friend CJ posted:The problem is every time he gets a chance to talk he tries to go into sappy speech mode. The act is wearing thin. Actually it's good
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Jan 12, 2022 00:07
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CJ posted:The problem is every time he gets a chance to talk he tries to go into sappy speech mode. The act is wearing thin. That and him having boyfriend vibes made me uncomfortable because like...I don't like having that pushed that strongly on me. Despite my Emet thirst, I'm not into men, and so G'raha takes on a much darker, (entirely unintended mind you) vibe.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:08
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I would like to keep Graha around so that one of our friends does not have white hair Krile with her hood down works too Hogama posted:wow aymeric's not my favorite either but that seems a bit overly rude 
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Jan 12, 2022 00:10
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I thought it was cool when Graha saved the scions and dozens (hundreds?) of ordinary people from splattering into paste, only having to take a lil cat nap for the trouble.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:10
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I like Graha but I liked him more as the Exarch. Thought it's not the first time in FFXIV that the writer's understanding I wanted to date a character and started pushing them more that way, just kinda made me less into them. I... agree, come to think of it. I think it's because I'm generally more engaged by plot-furthering scenes, and he had a lot of those in ShB, not so much afterwards.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:10
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I didn't mind G'raha but I think he's given us the 'we are going to go on a great adventure and I want you to bring me along' speech at least three times by this point and I'm beginning to question if his memory is going.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:13
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Tell G'raha about the adventures again, WoL.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:14
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I really appreciate having Estinien as part of the party, because the rest of the Scions are some flavor of scholar-nerd or another and... the WoL, no matter how you may personally potentially think of them as astute and bookish, is repeatedly characterized as not. It is nice to have another combat-inclined non-scholar on the team, nice to have him play that off everyone else, and especially because when violence is required he's like a living tactical air strike.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:14
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Hellioning posted:I didn't mind G'raha but I think he's given us the 'we are going to go on a great adventure and I want you to bring me along' speech at least three times by this point and I'm beginning to question if his memory is going. look he has like 150 years of them clogging his head. He can't fit any more.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:14
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It's kind of weird that he's over 100 years old and always hanging around with Alisae as well.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:23
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FeatherFloat posted:I really appreciate having Estinien as part of the party, because the rest of the Scions are some flavor of scholar-nerd or another and... the WoL, no matter how you may personally potentially think of them as astute and bookish, is repeatedly characterized as not. It is nice to have another combat-inclined non-scholar on the team, nice to have him play that off everyone else, and especially because when violence is required he's like a living tactical air strike. i really appreciated that Estinien was the first guy to try and jump the boss in every single cutscene
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Jan 12, 2022 00:24
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CJ posted:It's kind of weird that he's over 100 years old and always hanging around with Alisae as well. It's extremely presented as like a brother/sister thing, it's not weird even a little bit
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Jan 12, 2022 00:26
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FeatherFloat posted:I really appreciate having Estinien as part of the party, because the rest of the Scions are some flavor of scholar-nerd or another and... the WoL, no matter how you may personally potentially think of them as astute and bookish, is repeatedly characterized as not. It is nice to have another combat-inclined non-scholar on the team, nice to have him play that off everyone else, and especially because when violence is required he's like a living tactical air strike. Yeah, if anything having Estinien in the main cast made me feel like he should've joined earlier. I do think a big understated strength of FFXIV is that the core cast is full of turbonerds who think critically, which did a lot to aid the story in actually becoming more welcoming to more complex angles, but it does add to the story to have someone who's mostly just really good at throwing the gently caress down.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:29
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Cleretic posted:Yeah, if anything having Estinien in the main cast made me feel like he should've joined earlier. I do think a big understated strength of FFXIV is that the core cast is full of turbonerds who think critically, which did a lot to aid the story in actually becoming more welcoming to more complex angles, but it does add to the story to have someone who's mostly just really good at throwing the gently caress down. Yeah, if anything to make it feel less like the WoL is just the meathead they throw at problems.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:30
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Gotta admit it was really funny when the guy saw his son get turned into a horrible monster and get crushed to paste and watched mr president get eaten alive was saved from tipping over into despair by G'raha being like "hey. stop that"
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Jan 12, 2022 00:30
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The next storyline will have our party be Aenor, A-Ruhn-Senna, Fordola, Emmanelain (now a Dancer), and let’s throw in a wildcard, I’ll go with Hildibrand to tank
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Jan 12, 2022 00:30
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Chillgamesh posted:Gotta admit it was really funny when the guy saw his son get turned into a horrible monster and get crushed to paste and watched mr president get eaten alive was saved from tipping over into despair by G'raha being like "hey. stop that" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l60MnDJklnM someone edit G'raha's face on
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Jan 12, 2022 00:31
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I already said my uncle works at square and there will be 8 trust members. 4 will be new people we don't know. The other 4 are: tank: Laurisse de Jervaint healer: Alpha melee DPS: Zenos ranged DPS: Sadu
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Jan 12, 2022 00:34
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Bring that dumb pirate who nobody cares about back.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:35
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CJ posted:Bring that dumb pirate who nobody cares about back. Gonna need to be way more specific
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Jan 12, 2022 00:40
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Again I feel it's important to note that Graha is not actually romantic with your character. Like there's enough there you can read it that way if you want but he's portrayed as being an earnest person who enjoys your company and friendship. I mean I've made the "just kiss already" jokes too but they're jokes and not meant as an actual interpretation of the character. I feel like trying to slot every interaction someone has into romance ends up devaluing a lot of the character and I think it can be hard to separate "this person is hitting on me" from "This person just likes being around me." Graha is very firmly in the second category, as are all the Scions. If you want to write your fanfiction with (x) character there's enough basis there to do so because they are written as being someone you are friends with, in the same way you can write Sam and Frodo in a romantic way. One thing I appreciate in writing, and it's difficult, is a willingness to portray close relationships that aren't about romance or sex. FFXIV does a largely good job at that in the player relationships are built around the idea of close interaction and trust and depending on your character. This isn't just true of Graha but all the Scions and most of the characters you interact with. Haurchefant was apparently a bit more openly flirty in the Japanese version but even then his dying words are about his faith and trust in your character. I feel like this is important to note because it really does hurt the writing of certain characters if you take everything they do as romantic when it is about friendship and family as much as anything. There's no harm in having your personal headcanon or whatever but like Sam and Frodo it can actually devalue a particular interaction if you assume the only reason people can care that much is because they want to sleep with you.
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Jan 12, 2022 00:44
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CJ posted:Bring that dumb pirate who nobody cares about back. feels like you're talking about either sicard or mistbeard, but that can't be right since they're both good as hell
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Jan 12, 2022 00:46
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