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Rustybear posted:i cant think of tory leader in the last 50 years that has had their leadership put to a vote at the 1922 and won; just the calling of the vote would be enough to finish him. I know we all live in a hellworld of dilated time but May's VONC, which she won, was only 3 years ago.
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Jan 12, 2022 14:12
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Yeah, that's exactly it. The first question has to be notified in advance, and they are allowed a supplementary question (other party leaders are allowed 2 or 3, LOTO is allowed 5) not quite, it's because questioners are only allowed to ask about things within the PM's role, just as you can only ask the defence minister about defence matters becasue the PMs role is essentially undefined and to keep within the school debate club rules you have to ask about what meetings he's had as that's about the only thing you can nail down as definitely part of his role, therefore they customarily start by asking him to list these this is also why lots of questions will be phrased as will he meet with x, has he met anyone about y people can and do skirt this rule becasue it's as dumb as it sounds but it's at the speakers discretion which is fairly lax these days
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Jan 12, 2022 14:13
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goddamnedtwisto posted:I know we all live in a hellworld of dilated time but May's VONC, which she won, was only 3 years ago. oh yeah, lol so much happened in those few weeks.
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Jan 12, 2022 14:15
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Ash Crimson posted:Sorry for your fathers brain rot As it is, people are being distracted from the fact that the government did gently caress all about an epidemic other than profiteering with a message of "daddy Boris had fun while you weren't allowed to, boo, better ignore all future public health measures."
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Jan 12, 2022 14:16
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i mean prior to that it hasn't happened in 50 years so ymmv for boris really
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Jan 12, 2022 14:16
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Guavanaut posted:I don't give a poo poo about Johnson's lovely parties either, I'd rather they put some proper public health measures in place back in February and then spent the subsequent year licking doorknobs and spitting in one anothers' mouths.
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Jan 12, 2022 14:24
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https://twitter.com/FattusAntus/status/1481250505569579016
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Jan 12, 2022 14:25
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Rustybear posted:oh yeah, lol so much happened in those few weeks. Also don't forget that from 1965 until 2010 the Tories had annual leadership elections (normally unopposed), so the VONC mechanism wasn't as important if they wanted rid of a leader - Major and Thatcher had both shanked the incumbent leader that way (although only Major while the incumbent was still PM).
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Jan 12, 2022 14:28
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Rustybear posted:i mean prior to that it hasn't happened in 50 years so ymmv for boris really Thatcher won her VONC in 1991, although she chose to step down anyway as it wasn't overwhelming. In fact the only Tory leader to lose a VONC in the last 50 years was Ted Heath, who resigned after Thatcher narrowly beat him in the first round of voting. All the others resigned or stepped down of their own accord apart from IDS, who resigned rather than contest a vote.
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Jan 12, 2022 14:31
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I wonder how long the lorry/container queue is at the ports now, it's very quiet.
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Jan 12, 2022 14:34
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Guavanaut posted:I don't give a poo poo about Johnson's lovely parties either, I'd rather they put some proper public health measures in place back in February and then spent the subsequent year licking doorknobs and spitting in one anothers' mouths. Yeah pretty much, but otoh effective public health measures would involve making money available to poor people, so lol no. Honestly the idea that anyone is genuinely shocked at the party is totally wild to me, who actually genuinely believed boris loving johnson was going to pass up the chance to get pissed and sexually assault some poor intern over the holidays, the man has clearly had his fingers crossed behind his back for his entire term as PM and doesn't even try to hide how hilarious he finds it.
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Jan 12, 2022 14:37
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Aidan_702 posted:TBH hearing some fantastic accents in parliament today. Someone with DeeDee's accent got a jab in there too  ?
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Jan 12, 2022 14:47
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My mind went straight to the other dee dee  
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Jan 12, 2022 14:52
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fuctifino posted:Most of how this country operates is based on unwritten conventions. Politicians are expected to do the right thing and follow these conventions. So what happens when someone ignores them? How enforceable are unwritten rules? And who enforces them? The UK is learning this exact thing a few years later than another country!  https://twitter.com/Ryanair/status/1481238702013796352
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Jan 12, 2022 15:03
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Nah, we've been learning the same lessons from roughly the same time as Trummu got in (Brexit), it's just getting worse now
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Jan 12, 2022 15:12
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ThomasPaine posted:Honestly the idea that anyone is genuinely shocked at the party is totally wild to me, who actually genuinely believed boris loving johnson was going to pass up the chance to get pissed and sexually assault some poor intern over the holidays, the man has clearly had his fingers crossed behind his back for his entire term as PM and doesn't even try to hide how hilarious he finds it.  ThomasPaine posted:My mind went straight to the other dee dee 
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Jan 12, 2022 15:17
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forkboy84 posted:But the point that we're making is that it's no more of a fantasy than Labour being in anyway redeemable at this point. Any project of left-wing revival is powered on hope & optimism & a smattering of self-delusion because if you don't have these things you'd give in to despair. My take is that this discussion is lacking some required grounding on what words like ‘left wing’ and ‘socialism’ actually mean in context Take someone who’s aspiration for Labour is government competence and 3-4 successful reforms, on the level of renationalisation of the railways. Things that help a little now, and pave the way for an actually better society in 20-30 years time. They would probably consider themself leftist, and if ‘better’ means socialist then that too. But obviously what that means is, even in the best case, another half century of the UK being a neoliberal capitalist society. Another person who uses the exact same words to describe their views might be talking about a much more radical transformation of the state and economy. One where academics would no longer consider the UK an example of neoliberalism on the timescale of say leaving the EU. The first person almost certainly won’t get that from Starmer, but plausibly could from someone else sometime over the next decade or so. The electoral numbers mean that any Labour Party that wants to win has to credibly promise good things for low income groups. And you can’t win a faction struggle unless you can present a plausible plan to win. The number of people prepared to admit to themselves they are happy raking in a salary to be a stooge is small. The second person is certainly very unlikely to get what they want from Labour. And probably always have been. A third person who might demand the latter, while thinking it impossible, or even undesirable. I guess they will get whatever the first group gets, but not be happy about it?
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Jan 12, 2022 15:23
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Barry Foster posted:Nah, we've been learning the same lessons from roughly the same time as Trummu got in (Brexit), it's just getting worse now Also we're learning that unwritten conventions are meaningless, while the US are learning that written conventions are meaningless when fascists stack the courts with judges who will ignore them.
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Jan 12, 2022 15:47
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Andrew's going to court, and we're all paying for it. https://twitter.com/JoshuaRozenberg/status/1481274010344296452
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Jan 12, 2022 15:53
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Guavanaut posted:I don't give a poo poo about Johnson's lovely parties either, I'd rather they put some proper public health measures in place back in February and then spent the subsequent year licking doorknobs and spitting in one anothers' mouths. I said i was sorry
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Jan 12, 2022 16:01
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keep punching joe posted:Andrew's going to court, and we're all paying for it. Can't be long now until some snooty guy in a tailcoat leaves Andy alone in a room with a glass of whiskey and a revolver.
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Jan 12, 2022 16:05
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Necrothatcher posted:Can't be long now until some snooty guy in a tailcoat leaves Andy alone in a room with a glass of whiskey and a revolver. Andrew telling his driver to avoid all tunnels, for the love of god
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Jan 12, 2022 16:09
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Andrew telling his driver to avoid all tunnels, for the love of god Nah, Brenda would never do him like that, he's her favourite She'll do it herself
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Jan 12, 2022 16:19
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Andrew telling his driver to avoid all tunnels, for the love of god The Queen sobs as she draws her katana "you were always one's favourite".
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Jan 12, 2022 16:20
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Do the US courts have any power to force him to appear though? Even if he's convicted in absentia can he be extradited? I hope to be proven wrong but I can't see a member of the royal family being subject to the same rules as the rest of us and I can well imagine even with the formal title of Prince Nonce, it could probably amount to little more than 'he's not allowed to go back to the US any more, but but he'll face no real justice'. A bit of a Polanski situation.
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Jan 12, 2022 16:24
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Comrade Fakename posted:Yeah, I saw you say this on twitter. This is a pretty ludicrous fantasy. Even assuming the entire SCG split (this won’t happen), would “the unions” follow? The unions are not funding Labour out of a deep-seated commitment to Marxist ideals, they do it to have influence over parliament. They’d fund the Tories if they thought it would work. Also, the unspoken fact about these unions withdrawing funds from Labour is that they also have declining membership and funding and would just like to hold on to their money. On top of all that, removing funds from Labour is a way to get them to move more towards the union’s position, this new party would probably be doing it whether they got the money or not. You're right in some ways, it'll never happen, but neither will achieving socialism through the machinery of the Labour Party. I don't think you get to advocate for that and also throw around terms like "ludicrous fantasy". Keep giving money to people who hate you I guess.
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Jan 12, 2022 16:25
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 "Fetch one's murdering hat, one shall be stepping out for a while"
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Jan 12, 2022 16:27
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Barry Foster posted:Nah, Brenda would never do him like that, he's her favourite “No, Andy. I ain’t mad. I never been mad, an’ I ain’t now. That’s a thing I want ya to know.”
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Jan 12, 2022 16:29
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stev posted:“No, Andy. I ain’t mad. I never been mad, an’ I ain’t now. That’s a thing I want ya to know.” How my hair look, Mother? You look good, boy
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Jan 12, 2022 16:36
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WhatEvil posted:You're right in some ways, it'll never happen, but neither will achieving socialism through the machinery of the Labour Party. I don't think you get to advocate for that and also throw around terms like "ludicrous fantasy". Good point. Even if a split can't get us socialism, the very least we should be aiming for is destruction of the labour party no quarter for traitors
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Jan 12, 2022 16:39
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I mean his granddad got taken out by a speedball, I guess they'll just have an unexplained cardiac event as he sleeps
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Jan 12, 2022 16:48
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https://twitter.com/LOS_Fisher/status/1481262033446264834
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Jan 12, 2022 16:50
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I can understand not wanting to spend perhaps the rest of your life in the wilderness trying to build a party which may never become any larger or more impactful than Left Unity, but still thinking that socialism can be built inside the Labour Party or that any of the people you'd be banking on implementing it would even have the nerve to really try is pure cope
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Jan 12, 2022 16:50
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Lol Seems like bojo found a glass ceiling on failing upwards, at least for now
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Jan 12, 2022 16:53
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Necrothatcher posted:The Queen sobs as she draws her katana "you were always one's favourite". Do reptiles have tear ducts?
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Jan 12, 2022 16:54
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I imagine she sprays blood from here eyes as a defence mechanism.
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Jan 12, 2022 16:55
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Convex posted:Lol To his great disappointment "island duke" stops somewhat short of "world king" and may turn out not to be a licence to nonce after all
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Jan 12, 2022 16:56
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jiggerypokery posted:Do reptiles have tear ducts? Of course, for the crocodile tears.
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Jan 12, 2022 16:57
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I'd have a lot more time for the Labour party if the SCG, Momentum, or even the left-membership had shown any willingness whatsoever to play dirty and take the fight to the right of the party. You can talk about the importance of internal democracy and debate and comradely disagreement all you like, but showing unlimited good faith and arguing earnestly with the wing that nakedly detests you and will never show the same courtesy just makes you a mug. After the second or third time a whole bunch of the PLP briefed against Corbyn, he'd have been far better off granting their wish by going full Turbo Stalin on them than trying to, once again, meet them half way. Same goes for the press, he was far too defensive and passive. It just seemed naïve, and any leader who falls into the same trap will be monstered just as badly. One who didn't would still be monstered, mind, but if they came out swinging they'd have a far better chance of making Labour something worth caring about and even maybe winning an election. This also applies now the left have been sidelined again - their willingness to go back to dutifully backing Starmer while maybe doing a tiny bit of modest heckling from social media just seems really pathetic. e: Something that really frustrates me about the political left in Britain is this need to constantly turn the other cheek, be the better person, set a moral example etc. Absolutely not, that's how you get walked over. Don't be shy, get your hands dirty, it's the only way we'll win. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Jan 12, 2022 |
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Jan 12, 2022 16:58
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ThomasPaine posted:Do the US courts have any power to force him to appear though? Even if he's convicted in absentia can he be extradited? I hope to be proven wrong but I can't see a member of the royal family being subject to the same rules as the rest of us and I can well imagine even with the formal title of Prince Nonce, it could probably amount to little more than 'he's not allowed to go back to the US any more, but but he'll face no real justice'. A bit of a Polanski situation. If they wish to charge him, they can submit an extradition request and *in theory* he has no power to disobey it[1] - in practice it'll be interesting to see what kind of shape the courts twist themselves into. At the moment (I believe) it's only a civil matter so extradition doesn't apply, especially as he has legal representation over there. [1] This is assuming he doesn't claim diplomatic immunity. For most of the time period involved he was the Queen's Special
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