The BSS Movie Thread: Rob liefelf

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > The BSS Movie Thread: Rob liefelf

Lobok: Jul 13, 2006; Say Watt?

CzarChasm posted:

So talk of WW84 made me think of a question.

WW84 Diana gets a wish. Anything her heart desires, and after 60+ years, she wishes for her first love back. That's not god awful, but you expect me to believe that Diana has been walking around for 60+ years, looking like she does, and she can't find any other man (or woman) to love her, or gently caress her as well as Steve Trevor? Highly unlikely. But that is her motivation for half the movie. The dicking that he gives her is so amazing that not only is she apparently not loving any other man for the rest of her life up to that point, but she's willing to give up her super powers and let the world burn over it, just to get back on that D. She has to be convinced to let that stickman go, so she can save the world from being ruined by magic greed.

But, on the flip side, over at Marvel, we get the other Steve, who at the end of his story gives up a life of super heroing and saving the world, to go live out his days with his One True Love. Why does it work there?

Well the big thing I'd say is Diana's resurrection of Steve felt selfish because he was dead. His time was done. She brought him back (or some false version of him? Even worse if so) essentially just for herself. Cap didn't change anything about Peggy, just left his world to go back and pick up where he left off.

There are other questions about the potentially weird ethics or timeline implications of what Cap did but I'm just trying to answer your specific comparison question.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 00:25

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 27, 2024 02:30

BrianWilly: Apr 24, 2007; There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

Some of these WW84 criticisms are leaning into some Cinemasins nitpickery. You either like or dislike that certain characters act in certain ways or that certain things happened, but the fact that Diana loved Steve a lot, or that their plane worked, is not a "plot hole."

CzarChasm posted:

But, on the flip side, over at Marvel, we get the other Steve, who at the end of his story gives up a life of super heroing and saving the world, to go live out his days with his One True Love. Why does it work there?

Eh, who says it worked here? I believe the general consensus is that this was also pretty dumb. :sweatdrop:

Aphrodite posted:

They actually never sleep together before his death.

yeah they did

JT Smiley posted:

Why couldn't Steve just come back to life? Why have him steal another man's body if it never plays into the story?

I believe the idea is that all the wishes have some sort of terrible drawback, although Diana losing her powers was already a drawback so I do agree that this particular part was kinda weird.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 00:32

Parkingtigers: Feb 23, 2008; TARGET CONSUMER
LOVES EVERY FUCKING GAME EVER MADE. EVER.

Cap had just saved half the universe. As a soldier, he has every soldier�s truest wish, that one day they get to put war behind them and go home and live in peace.

Steve Rogers is a faithful man, and he had a once in a forever chance to return, after winning his �war�, to return to the only woman he�d ever loved. He�d earned that right to live happily and in peace. Hell, if he hadn�t returned to Peggy, that would have been a betrayal of who he was and everything he stood for.

I know some nerds who�ve never touched a woman without it leading to a court case got hung up on �he�s a soldier, he wouldn�t abandon his duty� but Steve Rogers stood alone against a loving god, prevailed, and he gets that nice little life with his hot plump-breasted woman who also never gave up on him.

The Infinity Saga starting with a skinny kid in Brooklyn wanting to stand up to nazis, and ending with him travelling back in time to live happily ever after is perfect and I can never be friends with anyone who doesn�t understand how completely and utterly correct it is that 20 movies of buildup ends with Steve Rogers finally getting that dance.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 00:42

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

Gatts posted:

As popular Wolverine was/is, I assure you having read millions of comics that Wolverine was a dogshit "character" and actually improved after Jackman. Not only was he the performer that elevated the character, it actually lead to improvement for him in the comics. Like some weird synergy happened and writers started writing him better and giving him some substance.

Wasn't Wolverine going through his feral, noseless phase when the first film released?

Not hard to elevate from there.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 00:43

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

Cap�s ending is dumb as poo poo too, it just comes at the end as a little bookend instead of the whole plot so people think about it less.

Steve Rogers did 9/11.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 00:50

JT Smiley: Mar 3, 2006; Thats whats up!

They probably shouldn't have killed Steve off since he was the biggest name in the movie.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 00:58

Gaz-L: Jan 28, 2009

BrianWilly posted:

Some of these WW84 criticisms are leaning into some Cinemasins nitpickery. You either like or dislike that certain characters act in certain ways or that certain things happened, but the fact that Diana loved Steve a lot, or that their plane worked, is not a "plot hole."

Eh, who says it worked here? I believe the general consensus is that this was also pretty dumb.

yeah they did

I believe the idea is that all the wishes have some sort of terrible drawback, although Diana losing her powers was already a drawback so I do agree that this particular part was kinda weird.

It's not a plot hole, but it does speak to a problem they set for themselves by making the first film a period piece which I'm convinced was on some level a decision at least in conversation with Captain America. They wanted their WW2 movie and to riff on Golden Age Wonder Woman, but Cap had already done the WW2 period superhero thing, so they adjust it for WW1 but largely present the Germans as Nazis and the Brits/Americans as the WW2 era 'Allies'. OK fine. But then for WW84 they want to do their 'woman out of time' shtick but Snyder's already set up that she's been living in 'Man's World' for the whole time, so instead of amending the idea to account for that they... just kind of act like she was frozen in time since the last film until like 1983.

As far as the wish goes, I think the bodysnatching thing is meant to be the drawback and the power loss is due to Cheetah, hence why she needs the armour for the final battle. At least it's muddled enough that I'd believe both ideas were in different drafts as the cause.

Honestly, the bit that jumped out at me in WW84 was the tenuous attempt to tie the wishing rock to established lore by having the creator of it be referred to as the Duke Of Deception, who is a fairly obscure WW villain in the first place. There's a weird refusal to engage with the Greek myth elements in both films, with Ares in the first one basically being Lucifer more than actually Ares. (I mean the backstory here, Ares being the cause of a near MAD event is in line with the character in the comics, but the whole 'Ares vs Zeus' as a big Good vs Evil thing reeks of Judeo-Christian imagery)

And yes, arguably Pascal is a decent JLI era Max Lord (and it's a fabulous performance in a vacuum; he, Wiig and Pine do yeoman's work). But that's the PROBLEM. JLI Max Lord is a TERRIBLE villain in a WW film. The only reason to use him as a villain in Wonder Woman is to use the more modern version where he's jealous/paranoid of superheroes. As the former isn't really a villain at all, and 'well meaning sleazebag in the 80s' and NOT using Mindi Mayer makes me fairly sure the namedropping of George Perez by Jenkins et al is just them knowing he's the one creator everyone liked on WW more than actually trying to pull anything from that run.

Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Jan 14, 2022

# ? Jan 14, 2022 01:24

Assepoester: Jul 18, 2004; Can't post for 10 years!; Melman v2

CzarChasm posted:

So talk of WW84 made me think of a question.

WW84 Diana gets a wish. Anything her heart desires, and after 60+ years, she wishes for her first love back. That's not god awful, but you expect me to believe that Diana has been walking around for 60+ years, looking like she does, and she can't find any other man (or woman) to love her, or gently caress her as well as Steve Trevor? Highly unlikely. But that is her motivation for half the movie.

I just figured it was the anniversary of his death plus he was her first love so she was feeling extremely wistful at the time, but yeah it is weird that she indicates to Barbara that she's never had any other important relationships?

Aphrodite posted:

They actually never sleep together before his death.

The curtains blowing in the window mean that she and Steve slept together in the first film

# ? Jan 14, 2022 01:36

OnimaruXLR: Sep 15, 2007; Lurklurklurklurklurk

Diana treating her romance with Steve Trevor as this big character-defining thing the way Bruce treats his parents death is really weird to me. Especially in the context of the movies where, no offense to Chris Pine, but they seemed to be too busy trying to prevent a war from spiraling even further out of control to fall into one twue wub.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 01:46

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

chris pine must have some great dick game

# ? Jan 14, 2022 01:50

BrianWilly: Apr 24, 2007; There is no homosexual terrorist Johnny Silverhand

Gaz-L posted:

As far as the wish goes, I think the bodysnatching thing is meant to be the drawback and the power loss is due to Cheetah, hence why she needs the armour for the final battle. At least it's muddled enough that I'd believe both ideas were in different drafts as the cause.

I believe that the reason Diana had to renounce her Steve wish that she had to get her powers back, and that she already had them back by the time she went to fight Cheetah, which makes the depowering a direct result of her own wish and not Barbara's. Barbara's drawback was that she was losing her humanity or something. I don't remember it all super duper clearly but I do remember thinking, even at the time, that it was a little weird that Diana had to put on her armor for the fight considering that her powers were already back at that point.

There were definitely some plotting and drafting issues about this...thing...specifically. They probably did originally have it so that Diana had to wear the armor because she was still depowered by the final fight, but they also wanted her to renounce the Steve wish before then so that she didn't come across like a total hypocrite at that point, and also so that they could have the riding on air currents scene (which I really liked!), but then they don't have an excuse for the armor which they'd already made figurines for, and...around and around it went.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 01:51

Sanschel: Aug 9, 2002

The armor definitely felt like a toyetic decision to me.

I also questioned the use of Lord as a villain in general, especially since his only meaningful interaction with Diana in the comics involved her snapping his neck on TV. I assumed going into it they would play on that, half-lampooning the ending of Man of Steel where it seems like the heroes� only choice to stop the villain is death, only for her to realize there was a better way and she could talk him down.

Instead she uses her magic lasso as a microphone through him to the satellite that lets him touch every person on the planet (???) so she can ramble incoherently until he just stops having powers.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 03:17

Rev. Bleech_: Oct 19, 2004; ~OKAY, WE'LL DRINK TO OUR LEGS!~

all this sniping at WW84 and no one has called out Gal Gadot's inability to say the word "stone" in a non-weird way

# ? Jan 14, 2022 04:16

ImpAtom: May 24, 2007

Rev. Bleech_ posted:

all this sniping at WW84 and no one has called out Gal Gadot's inability to say the word "stone" in a non-weird way

Sucks for Cyborg.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 04:25

CelticPredator: Oct 11, 2013; 🍀👽🆚🪖🏋

Sanschel posted:

The armor definitely felt like a toyetic decision to me.

Which is odd because the film had no childrens toy line. McFarlane made collectors figures for it and Hot Toys made super expensive versions of it.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 04:59

OnimaruXLR: Sep 15, 2007; Lurklurklurklurklurk

I'm only an hour into Eternals so far but I gotta say, these guys are biting Silver Surfer's style, and I don't like it one bit, unless there's a scene in Fantastic Four 3 where Galactus kicks the cosmic door in and delivers a series of stone cold stunners to a bunch of Celestials

# ? Jan 14, 2022 07:58

Gatts: Jan 2, 2001; Goodnight Moon; Nap Ghost

Rhyno posted:

Wasn't Wolverine going through his feral, noseless phase when the first film released?

Not hard to elevate from there.

Yeah I think that was the phase or right around there.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 14:30

Gatts: Jan 2, 2001; Goodnight Moon; Nap Ghost

site posted:

chris pine must have some great dick game

https://i.imgur.com/VkvAqWD.gifv

# ? Jan 14, 2022 14:32

Happy Noodle Boy: Jul 3, 2002

Opening credits for Peacemaker are online

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mrr3UNALww

# ? Jan 14, 2022 16:36

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

Just watched the first episode last night. It is Extremely James Gunn.

The eagle doing jazz hands is the highlight for me

# ? Jan 14, 2022 16:48

Veotax: May 16, 2006

Oh cool, there isn't even a date when Peacemaker will be coming to the UK, don't even know what service it will be on since we don't have HBO Max. Probably some expensive Sky service.
I'm getting really loving sick of this.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 17:07

site: Apr 6, 2007; Trans pride, Worldwide
Bitch

Gatts posted:

https://i.imgur.com/VkvAqWD.gifv

is there supposed to be sound? I'm not hearing anything

# ? Jan 14, 2022 17:23

Aphrodite: Jun 27, 2006

It's a meme from the ancient past of 2017.

The caption is usually something like 'tfw you remember you're married'

# ? Jan 14, 2022 17:32

hiddenriverninja: May 10, 2013; life is locomotion
keep moving
trust that you'll find your way

I mean, on the hierarchy of Chrises, Pine has to be #1 or 2. (2 for me, I gotta go with Cap)

# ? Jan 14, 2022 17:35

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

I could watch that credit scene in repeat endlessly.

Also Holy heck, Jennifer Holland's arms are incredibly toned. They look like they're carved out of stone.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 17:49

BornAPoorBlkChild: Sep 24, 2012

�Fantastic Four� MCU Reboot Gets An Exciting Update

https://www.screengeek.net/2022/01/12/fantastic-four-mcu-reboot-update/

:suicide:

my dream is for very obvious designed by Bot articles sites like these to be banned and the creator never allowed to work in the field again

like I'm really curious exactly how much revenue these places (where the people behind it obviously didn't give a gently caress) bring in as a whole. it's gotta be like 20 dollars or something

BornAPoorBlkChild fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 14, 2022

# ? Jan 14, 2022 18:32

bessantj: Jul 27, 2004

Veotax posted:

Oh cool, there isn't even a date when Peacemaker will be coming to the UK, don't even know what service it will be on since we don't have HBO Max. Probably some expensive Sky service.
I'm getting really loving sick of this.

Don't know what you expect. I was very surprised when Lois and Clark was on the BBC. I've missed large parts of the DC TV stuff because I haven't known where and when it is on. Mind you if I don't feel like making the effort to find out then maybe that show hasn't grabbed me enough.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 21:11

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

CzarChasm posted:

But, on the flip side, over at Marvel, we get the other Steve, who at the end of his story gives up a life of super heroing and saving the world, to go live out his days with his One True Love. Why does it work there?

Interesting question. I think Steve Rogers being arrested characterwise circa 1945 actually being a plot point helps. Steve is out of time and constantly remarking on it, and that palpable sadness of him missing his chance with Peggy is present in multiple movies

Diana seems to be the coolest best adjusted woman on the planet. Maybe a side affect of the director outright saying she wanted her to be a perfect symbol for girls. That also makes her sadness about her Steve kinda perplexing, which isn't helped by the lack of Diana character time onscreen from her loss.

# ? Jan 14, 2022 23:05

lomzus: Mar 18, 2009

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1482124116362551299

# ? Jan 15, 2022 00:00

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

lomzus posted:

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1482124116362551299

Good, because he's great

# ? Jan 15, 2022 02:06

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

What are the odds some exec tried to convince him that pushing for a raise right now was gauche, "considering."

# ? Jan 15, 2022 02:19

Mr Hootington: Jul 24, 2008; I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY

How the gently caress does the eternals fit into the mcu? Lmao

Should have been stand alone.

Also it is just silver surfer and galactus

And it has a better flash and wonder woman.

Mr Hootington fucked around with this message at 03:17 on Jan 15, 2022

# ? Jan 15, 2022 03:14

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

Holy crap, look at that suit!

https://www.cbr.com/batgirl-movie-costume-reveal-leslie-grace/

# ? Jan 15, 2022 03:52

Codependent Poster: Oct 20, 2003

I mean, the Burnside suit was pretty much created so it could be easy to translate to real life. So I'm glad they went with that, because it looks great.

# ? Jan 15, 2022 03:56

Rhyno: Mar 22, 2003; Can't post for 10 years!

It looks amazing. She looks amazing. I never expected them to go that direction.

# ? Jan 15, 2022 03:57

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Love it. I've sort of hated every other version of the Burnside suit since the original, since it literally came with a page of rules that every other artist can't follow in the slightest. They always do the underboob tuck.

# ? Jan 15, 2022 04:12