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This is still feeling very Heaven's Gate-y just not from the same people
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Jan 14, 2022 17:35
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Love how the comic is immediately agreeing with Renard that this whole 'fairness' concept is clearly bullshit, and also the Court is clearly being unfair. It just doesn't seem well thought out!
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Jan 14, 2022 21:23
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this might have been easier to swallow if aata was the one being interrogated. shell can't even articulate the court's side of the argument, much less make it convincing
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Jan 14, 2022 21:42
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Joe Slowboat posted:Love how the comic is immediately agreeing with Renard that this whole 'fairness' concept is clearly bullshit, and also the Court is clearly being unfair. It just doesn't seem well thought out! I mean, that part is consistent. The Shadow Men have identified a genuine instance in which life is unfair; the problem is that their reaction is vastly out of proportion to the problem, causes as least as much unfairness as it solves, and... doesn't really solve the problem at all except insofar as Coyote doesn't live in New Jersey. Oxxidation posted:this might have been easier to swallow if aata was the one being interrogated. shell can't even articulate the court's side of the argument, much less make it convincing This is the problem. Shell is the only person who gets to articulate the Court viewpoint, and Shell is a loving moron with the emotional maturity of a twelve-year-old, who doesn't even know what the Court's plan is, and is so dumb that she didn't even realize she didn't know the plan until someone asked her what it was. As someone pointed out elsewhere, on this page we see Shell expressing the Court's goals, and the art is clearly intended to express "the Court is a bunch of boring men who worship boringness." Even in their own big art pieces they get treated with contempt! At this point I just don't know what Siddell is attempting to convey, unless it's "the antagonists of this story are both unworthy of being treated as adults, and are completely incompetent, and if they are not stopped, they will carry out their threat: they will take their ball (which nobody wants) and move to New Jersey." I guess it's technically a threat to the people of New Jersey.
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Jan 14, 2022 22:00
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I don't really know why this is being treated like a big stinger moment with a closeup on Kat's face. Kat's mom cannot go because she is capable of wielding the ether. Kat's father would not go, because he loves his wife and would be pissed off that she's excluded after all she's done for the court. Kat's best friend cannot go because she is capable of wielding the ether. The best friend she just broke time and space for. Nor can Robot, or Renard, or Shadow. The entirety of robot civilization she just got done making and has been passionately throwing herself into, also unable to go. I feel like if she chose to go anyway it would feel out of character on the level of that time that she magically became besties with Tony overnight because he likes a science and that somehow is more important than the emotional neglect she witnessed her best friend go through for years of critical childhood development. Maybe Paz will go because magic talents are somehow cool and okay and have nothing to do with the ether? And Kat wants to be with her love? That feels like the only angle you could lean on to make it anywhere close to believable. That said, one question I am very interested in is this: What will happen to Jones? They say nonhumans aren't allowed, but Jones is one of their best assets and has been for quite some time. But she's inarguably not human, physically and mentally. It would be interesting if they had some hypocrisy in that regard.
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Jan 14, 2022 22:06
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Wait so like, does the Court care about etheric unfairness or YOOMANITY? Why do we care that Arthur isn't human? He's as etherically a non-entity as any regular human.Tiny Myers posted:I don't really know why this is being treated like a big stinger moment with a closeup on Kat's face. Also this lmao. Wow! This might require half a second of thought!
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Jan 14, 2022 22:10
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Rand Brittain posted:I mean, that part is consistent. The Shadow Men have identified a genuine instance in which life is unfair; the problem is that their reaction is vastly out of proportion to the problem, causes as least as much unfairness as it solves, and... doesn't really solve the problem at all except insofar as Coyote doesn't live in New Jersey. I don't mean that the Shadow Men are not obviously reacting in the most useless way imaginable to their situation, they are, I mean Renard on the previous page went directly to "Life's not fair, your claim of unfairness is actually jealousy" and then immediately goes "ah but see YOU are unfair." He's not expressing a coherent point of view on unfairness, naturalness, cruelty or acceptance. He's just coming out with negations for each specific concept put in front of him with no thought for what position he's actually presenting in aggregate. When it would be very very easy to go 'yeah, that's unfair and pretty bad, but what's the Court's solution? Oh, it's terrible, oh well.'
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Jan 14, 2022 22:16
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Joe Slowboat posted:I don't mean that the Shadow Men are not obviously reacting in the most useless way imaginable to their situation, they are, I mean Renard on the previous page went directly to "Life's not fair, your claim of unfairness is actually jealousy" and then immediately goes "ah but see YOU are unfair." I guess? I would probably be more judgmental of Renard's swift dismissal of Shell's position if she actually had a position worth defending, but as it is he just took two panels to write her off as a muppet baby instead of three.
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Jan 14, 2022 22:20
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renard's retort seems to consist of "you claim that your position is borne from outrage at cosmic injustice, but you're just answering it with further exclusion and injustice," but the whole thing is built on a weak foundation because, again, shell's incapable of eloquently arguing her side god i miss coyote. he was an all-powerful dickhead but he fully acknowledged and accepted that his position was ultimately subordinate to the imagination of humans because of the way the ether functioned, which made the world feel "balanced" even if only one side of it could casually become tall enough to flick over a skyscraper. in comparison, every one of loup's monologues was a desperate attempt to justify his own presence in the story and even those were pleasant compared to this - a high schooler with a fivehead sitting in a beige room, mumbling into her collarbone Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Jan 14, 2022 |
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Jan 14, 2022 22:38
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Tiny Myers posted:I don't really know why this is being treated like a big stinger moment with a closeup on Kat's face. The best I can think of is it's a "you don't actually have a choice in the matter", but that's immediately squashed by the point that Juliette immediately refuses to go as well, which passes without comment.
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Jan 14, 2022 22:52
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I figured the singling out was foreshadowing for Kat's apotheosis. Possibly a callback to the Torn Sea as well especially since we know Zimmy is likely involved in some way.
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Jan 14, 2022 23:07
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I think this is a setup for the Paz vs Annie subplot to come to a head: Paz will for some reason be allowed to go, really want to go, and when Kat demurs on leaving Annie behind, Paz will explode and demand she choose between the woman who loves her or her ungrateful, emotionally negligent "friend". This will also complete the other part of Paz's subplot: you cannot hope to change the Court for the better, association with the Court can only slowly rob you of your humanity.
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Jan 15, 2022 01:51
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Doesn't Paz have an etheric ability in regards to animals? Or is my memory conjuring up something fake?
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Jan 15, 2022 02:29
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she’s a Doolittle, yeah. can’t have a quirky magic school without a Doolittle
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Jan 15, 2022 02:35
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It's unclear whether that counts as interacting with the ether or not. We've been told the court specifically seeks out and cultivates people with Special Talents, such as Paz's ability to speak with animals. Similarly, Kat has an obvious supernatural affinity for robotics that goes far beyond simple "gifted student", whether she'd admit it to herself or not. So if they're accepting that, it stands to reason they'd allow Paz, as well, because neither of them peer directly into the ether (yet?) that we're aware of. But Kat was probably grandfathered into the court as a result of her mom working there, so it's possible they don't understand the full extent of her gift, unlike Paz. They didn't notice or care about her etherically creating a body for a boat robot, either, I guess? Just chocked that one up to Zimmy magic and didn't pursue it any further? It raises a lot of questions about where the line between "student that fucks with the Ether" and "student that has Special Powers" is drawn. Feels a little arbitrary, tbh.
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Jan 15, 2022 02:55
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Can Smitty go? He clearly has some sort of thing going on, does that count as magic or not?
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Jan 15, 2022 10:31
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Kat's totally gonna throw Annie + her parents in a dumpster and go with the Court It doesn't make any sense but it's absolutely happening
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Jan 15, 2022 11:56
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Ironic Twist posted:Kat's totally gonna throw Annie + her parents in a dumpster and go with the Court Or it'll be, "We need a person on the inside for some reason and I will sacrifice my connections with others for the greater good." I don't know why they'd even care about taking their ball and going to a new home but here we are.
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Jan 15, 2022 15:14
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I assume it will be a big deal for the same reason Tony trying to resurrect Surma ended up being a big deal - it wouldn't be an issue by itself, but the unintended side-effect will result in death of all etheric beings, or it will lobotomize all humans so that they can longer feed ether, or something like that.
Lt. Lizard fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Jan 15, 2022 |
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Jan 15, 2022 15:31
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Yeah, I assume once we get the full picture of what the shadow men are planning it’ll be less “everyone gets on a plane to Ohio” and more “the shadow men trigger third impact”.
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Jan 15, 2022 15:47
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Snake Maze posted:Yeah, I assume once we get the full picture of what the shadow men are planning it’ll be less “everyone gets on a plane to Ohio” and more “the shadow men trigger third impact”. Clearly they’re all going to the Metaverse, invented by Kat Zuckerberg
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Jan 15, 2022 16:32
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Look, you just need to kill enough people who believe the ether doesnt, or shouldnt, exist, and bada bing bada boom...
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Jan 15, 2022 16:34
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Leaving in the normal, physical way is out of the question. The Ether is a fundamental component of their universe. They need something on the order of Coyote’s power to either rewrite the intrinsic laws of existence or rip a hole in space time to escape into another reality. Of course there will be world shattering consequences. That would be freakishly dangerous even before the Shadow Men were revealed to be bumbling fools.
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Jan 15, 2022 16:40
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machine god kat is a massive chekhov's gun to leave on the table and I don't see how somehow or another its existence won't end up factoring in to the story whether through plot contrivance and/or interdimensional fuckery
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Jan 15, 2022 16:53
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:Can Smitty go? He clearly has some sort of thing going on, does that count as magic or not? To be honest, I don't think so. When Annie peered into the ether there were a bunch of threads tethered to him that seemed to indicate how his powers work. So even if he can't see it, he's still using it.
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Jan 15, 2022 17:41
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CYBEReris posted:machine god kat is a massive chekhov's gun to leave on the table and I don't see how somehow or another its existence won't end up factoring in to the story whether through plot contrivance and/or interdimensional fuckery at this point i'm assuming that the entire machine god storyline is supposed to be neatly wrapped with a nice little bow. ... i'm getting to be desperate for a pleasant surprise.
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Jan 15, 2022 19:06
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 Remember when this happened in 2016? Did they literally ever talk about it later? Maybe they had that conversation during the 6 months that Annie was in the forest.
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Jan 15, 2022 23:08
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Tiny Myers posted:
Annie drew her a picture, but I think they left it at that.
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Jan 16, 2022 07:44
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Maybe Kat is Omega.
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Jan 16, 2022 08:07
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Sway Grunt posted:Annie drew her a picture, but I think they left it at that. ...does Annie think the angel she saw was the tool? She doesn't realize that's Kat, does she?
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Jan 16, 2022 08:20
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^ I hadn't realised that. That's hillarious.Tiny Myers posted:I don't really know why this is being treated like a big stinger moment with a closeup on Kat's face. Kat has grown up in the court, she's made her whole life around fixing the problems of the court. She's only ever left for a few holidays. The closeup is her realisation that she can either choose her friends, or her home, and that the home is quite willing to discard her without a second though. ("Juliette could go" "no!" "well she couldn't then") but she can no longer have both.
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Jan 16, 2022 12:51
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Potato Salad posted:...does Annie think the angel she saw was the tool? Oh man I never caught that either. Haha wow.
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Jan 16, 2022 14:04
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Nettle Soup posted:Kat has grown up in the court, she's made her whole life around fixing the problems of the court. She's only ever left for a few holidays. The closeup is her realisation that she can either choose her friends, or her home, and that the home is quite willing to discard her without a second though. ("Juliette could go" "no!" "well she couldn't then") but she can no longer have both.
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Jan 16, 2022 16:05
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maswastaken posted:That would be a tough choice if her parents were going, which I assume she'll quickly realise can't be the case. If home is a building, it isn't moving. If home is everyone she knows, most of them aren't moving either. Yeah, if her parents were going, I could see it being a tough decision for her that could go either way. But literally every single person she has any emotional connection with, outside of Paz (and even that is maybe, she can talk to animals after all), is staying behind. I can't see how she could decide NOT to stay behind, without being wildly out of character (or the story spending some drat good effort in giving her more temptations and reasons for going).
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Jan 16, 2022 17:52
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The Court isn't really giving much motivation for any of the main characters we've met to go with them when they leave, nor has the story provided a reason yet for why them leaving is a bad thing. Right now it's just: "So you know those people who've been hassling you all these years? Yeah, they're leaving. No, you don't have to go with them, you can to refuse to come for any reason, in fact the majority of the people you care about aren't even allowed to go. You can continue living your lives now free from the shadowy forces that have been oppressing you."
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Jan 16, 2022 18:27
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Um, were there even any shadowy Court forces oppressing main characters in the story? I mean more than is usual for British boarding school? 
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Jan 16, 2022 19:10
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Lt. Lizard posted:Um, were there any even shadowy Court forces oppressing main characters in the story? I mean more than is usual for British boarding school? basically only the headmaster, and the faceless shadow men we've seen around a few times. so... kinda no. also the wiki doesn't even have a page for shadow men, if you try to find it it just redirects you to Shadow's species. e: alsoalso there's this page, which shows aata and shell as part of the group that was trying to shut down kat's workshop just after loup's attack. Niavmai fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Jan 16, 2022 |
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Jan 16, 2022 19:22
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Lt. Lizard posted:Yeah, if her parents were going, I could see it being a tough decision for her that could go either way. But literally every single person she has any emotional connection with, outside of Paz (and even that is maybe, she can talk to animals after all), is staying behind. I can't see how she could decide NOT to stay behind, without being wildly out of character (or the story spending some drat good effort in giving her more temptations and reasons for going). How old is Kat, because it's possible she doesn't really have a choice.
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Jan 16, 2022 21:18
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her mother is besties with a valkyrie, i don't think kat's parents are on the court's short list
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Jan 16, 2022 21:35
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:How old is Kat, because it's possible she doesn't really have a choice. I mean, her parents are alive, well-adjusted and love her (and are staying behind), so I have hard time seeing them pressuring her into anything she doesn't want just because she is a minor. And if the Court/shadow men would try doing that instead, her parents would almost certainly not like that at all and intervene.
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Jan 16, 2022 22:04
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