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A few questions 1. The game should have let you get the new game + stuff before the test (that was a statement) 2. How come Wolfenstein 2 won GOTY over this game? What does it do better? 3. On a new game+ , any interesting ideas for playthroughs? 4. Does the Epic free version come with the typhoid multiplayer content? 5. How does Moonbase compare to a 1st or 2nd playthrough?
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Jan 14, 2022 01:24
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Wolf 2 got GOTY because people have terrible loving taste in games
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Jan 14, 2022 01:28
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Gaius Marius posted:Wolf 2 got GOTY because people have terrible loving taste in games god that was such a disappointment. the teaser showing that scripted sequence in Amerikkka was cool as hell and then the entire game is basically city ruins and concrete bases. like come on.
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Jan 14, 2022 02:14
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Phigs posted:Yeah IMO this kind of thing is very dumb. I didn't use any typhon mods in my one playthrough of Prey because they made that a thing. So I skipped a big part of the game because they made an explicit typhon/non-typhon dichotomy. Just like I didn't kill anyone in my first Dishonored play and never played with any of the lethal toys because they made low/high chaos dichotomy. I don't see what it adds to the games that they keep going for it. All it does to me is make me play with less of the toys they put into the game and presumably have less fun than I would have otherwise. so you would never choose to not be a murder-man just out of your own feelings towards killin folks? maybe there should be a god and heaven if that's totally necessary for some mindsets
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Jan 14, 2022 02:38
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kneelbeforezog posted:3. On a new game+ , any interesting ideas for playthroughs? 3. try destroying january at the first opportunity, and also december if you want 4. no it doesn't, presumably the MP stuff is tied to steamworks and it wasn't deemed worth the trouble of reworking that (typhon hunter sucks anyway) 5. not sure what you mean, mooncrash is its own separate thing
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Jan 14, 2022 02:52
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Khanstant posted:so you would never choose to not be a murder-man just out of your own feelings towards killin folks? maybe there should be a god and heaven if that's totally necessary for some mindsets The part I bolded in your post is a big part of the reason why I don't like it really. A player deciding to play a certain way because it appeals to them personally is great. A player playing a way they wouldn't naturally because of something the developer did can be good if the developer is deliberately nudging the player into a more fun or interesting playstyle. I think with Dishonored and Prey they're designed to give the player a bunch of tools and let them go at the world however they choose but the meta dualities they put in the games detract from that for some players. Dishonored could maybe have worked with better execution by making players empathize with the guards and encourage non-lethal that way. Instead of having this metagame chaos counter that increments on death. But I think Prey's dichotomy was straight up a bad decision. I don't see any way it gains by separating out the typhon and human trees so explicitly and drawing attention to it with the whole turrets will see you as a baddie mechanic. It just makes people more likely to ignore a section of the game.
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Jan 14, 2022 02:58
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Rev. Melchisedech Howler posted:Are there actually any mods that adjust the skill-trees etc? Typhon only may actually be fun if I could mod in a bigger inventory and increase psi amount. Why not just go Typhon only except for those two abilities? If you want the achievement just use steam achievement manager, or stop caring about achievements
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Jan 14, 2022 04:02
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kneelbeforezog posted:A few questions Mooncrash is dooooooope, I would say do Mooncrash before a second playthrough.
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Jan 14, 2022 04:11
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Phigs posted:Dishonored could maybe have worked with better execution by making players empathize with the guards and encourage non-lethal that way. Instead of having this metagame chaos counter that increments on death. But I think Prey's dichotomy was straight up a bad decision. I don't see any way it gains by separating out the typhon and human trees so explicitly and drawing attention to it with the whole turrets will see you as a baddie mechanic. It just makes people more likely to ignore a section of the game. I think Prey's problem is just that it made what was essentially a warning about turrets seem a lot more meaningful than it really was. Rev. Melchisedech Howler posted:Are there actually any mods that adjust the skill-trees etc? Typhon only may actually be fun if I could mod in a bigger inventory and increase psi amount. Personally I wouldn't bother with the achievement, doing a typhon-focused build where you take no human combat abilities can be quite fun (especially if do the water quest ASAP, otherwise resources can become a bit scarce in a way that isn't fun), maybe even just limiting it to suit upgrades and psi upgrades. The achievement variant is sort of a masochistic experience and not nearly as fun as just going Typhon heavy. kneelbeforezog posted:2. How come Wolfenstein 2 won GOTY over this game? What does it do better? A typhon-heavy run is especially fun for a new-game plus experience, imo, since your psi hypos aren't competing with your neuromods really, and you can be an alien wizard flying around shaped like an operator right off the bat from the office instead of having to wait until later. Also, something many people don't realize: Yeah, the mimic ability lets you fly at later levels. If you haven't experimented with that, do it! Also Typhon Hunter is garbage, Wolfenstein 2 got so boring I only made it halfway through so who knows, and Moon Crash is awesome and worth playing if you liked the base game, although it's better with a few self-imposed restrictions because by default it starts out quite hard and then gets super easy, when ideally you'd want the inverse of that and a few tweaks will give you a superior experience (namely, don't make or limit how much you make of anything that slows down the difficulty progression). Also Mooncrash basically forces you to try out a lot of the fun character builds you could have made in the first game but probably didn't, like the typhon-heavy one, since every character has a much more limited skill tree. It's a very different kind of game experience though. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jan 14, 2022 |
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Jan 14, 2022 16:59
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Phigs posted:The part I bolded in your post is a big part of the reason why I don't like it really. A player deciding to play a certain way because it appeals to them personally is great. A player playing a way they wouldn't naturally because of something the developer did can be good if the developer is deliberately nudging the player into a more fun or interesting playstyle. I think with Dishonored and Prey they're designed to give the player a bunch of tools and let them go at the world however they choose but the meta dualities they put in the games detract from that for some players. DH2 did it a lot better by having the choice not just be between "Loud and lethal", "Quiet and lethal" and "Quiet and non-lethal" but adding in "Loud and non-lethal" too. Made getting spotted feel less like a failure mode.
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Jan 14, 2022 17:18
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With regards to the player choice discussion: Dishonored almost did something really cool with that spooky heart that tells you secrets about people, but AFAIK a guard who rampantly beats the poo poo out of his wife doesn't affect the chaos level any differently from a guard who feeds the pigeons when he thinks no one's looking or whatever. If they did, though, it might be interesting to see what players made of that. It could enable sort of a lurking vigilante run where you listen to the heart before picking off the sentries, doing your best to spare the relatively decent folks (and perhaps going out of your way to actively murder the incredibly foul ones). Of course, that would be complicated to implement, would likely involve game designers making a bunch of delicate and potentially controversial moral judgments, and would be almost completely contradictory to the way the games handle the assassination targets  On the same note, I really liked how Luca Abele was handled in Dishonored 2. There's a reason why simply murdering him creates much more chaos than the alternative, and - crucially - you can access a clear, coherently logical explanation of that context during the mission itself. I guess what I'm saying is that moral choices like that feel much more meaningful when they're contextual, rather than being simple adjustments to some unseen karma score. You care what happens to Serkonos because it's full of innocent people, and because its stability and prosperity will also affect Dunwall; on the other hand, you also have every reason to despise the Duke and want him dead. Choices like that are almost impossible to set up in a game like Prey, because almost everyone is already dead and you're just trying to survive in a haunted space station full of scary aliens. I genuinely don't think Arkane was trying to create a similar dynamic, though. I think players heard the warning about the turrets and had the (unfortunate, but understandable) thought: "ah, this must be like Dishonored! I'd better avoid using too many Typhon mods or I might lock myself out of the good ending."
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Jan 14, 2022 18:50
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Phigs posted:Dishonored could maybe have worked with better execution by making players empathize with the guards and encourage non-lethal that way. Having played through both Dis1 and Dis2 recently, the fact that they don't do this more always came across as odd to me. You obviously don't have to give every guard some deeply tragic backstory, but there's one mission in Dis2 (A Crack in the Slab, I think?) where there's a sleeping guard with a letter to his wife talking about how tough the job is and how he wants to go back and see them, and it made me deliberately avoid icing him. By comparison, almost every other guard you come across in the series is either a bonafide NPC (whiskeys and cigars later, random mumbling/grumbling, etc.) or an extreme cartoon villain that makes it hard to give a poo poo about planting one between their eyes. Dis2 is done no favors by Emily being such a cartoon villain on high Chaos, either. You could've given high Chaos Emily a moment of reflection on the Dreadful Wale after the first level where she ponders about what it feels like to actually slaughter a whole-rear end legion of soldiers and whether the price in blood is worth it. Instead, it immediately leans into the assumption that you've made up your mind about playing it as a murder simulator, and Emily starts chucking out these hilarious lines that're basically like, "Yes... killing is awesome!!" that made it hard to take any moral complexity the game was trying to sell seriously. Vermain fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jan 14, 2022 |
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Jan 14, 2022 19:13
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The way that chaos incentivizes and disincentivizes certain styles of play is a design problem from very specific angles - if it matters whether or not players are owed all content in all circumstances, if players should always get what they want regardless of how they act - but it is not in any way a narrative problem. Giving players fine-gradient outcomes re: who they choose to murder would be even more Frank Miller cartoonish than games that don’t care about it at all. In other words, Arkane wisely drifted from that system because it was keeping people from experiencing the full spectrum of actual designed gameplay. The problem was not that it was grim, or that it failed to demonstrate how killing bad people can be a good thing
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Jan 14, 2022 19:44
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Angry Diplomat posted:With regards to the player choice discussion: Dishonored almost did something really cool with that spooky heart that tells you secrets about people, but AFAIK a guard who rampantly beats the poo poo out of his wife doesn't affect the chaos level any differently from a guard who feeds the pigeons when he thinks no one's looking or whatever. If they did, though, it might be interesting to see what players made of that. It could enable sort of a lurking vigilante run where you listen to the heart before picking off the sentries, doing your best to spare the relatively decent folks (and perhaps going out of your way to actively murder the incredibly foul ones). They did exactly that in Dishonoured 2 -- they noticed that people were making decisions about who to kill and who to spare based on what the Heart said about them, and wanted to make the chaos system less simplistic, so in Dh2 they gave the Heart's insights actual mechanical weight. Here's an interview with the creative director where he talks about that mechanic.
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Jan 14, 2022 20:00
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ToxicFrog posted:They did exactly that in Dishonoured 2 -- they noticed that people were making decisions about who to kill and who to spare based on what the Heart said about them, and wanted to make the chaos system less simplistic, so in Dh2 they gave the Heart's insights actual mechanical weight. Here's an interview with the creative director where he talks about that mechanic. I have completed Dh2 multiple times and still somehow did not know that 
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Jan 14, 2022 22:01
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Angry Diplomat posted:I have completed Dh2 multiple times and still somehow did not know that There's two problems with it, though. First, on a basic mechanical level, every time you reload, the Chaos state of all NPCs is reset. And second, and that might just be my opinion, there's way too many over the top grimdark lines when you use the Heart in D2. D1's writing wasn't flawless, but it was more nuanced in many ways. Maybe the lack of a voiced player character just made it feel that way, but then again, I think the Daud DLC was the best-written part of the series, and that wasn't voiceless. I have a bunch of problems with the narrative of D2, and not the least of that is that it starts you off in the middle of a violent insurrection where loyal guards and citizens are slaughtered in the street by the dozens. And then you board a ship for two weeks, and leave in a different city, on another island. The Chaos system and its knock-on effects make absolutely no sense in that context. First, the enemies you're up against are all part of a murderous coup, so killing them should reduce civilian and loyalist casualties. And second, why does this make the situation in Karnaca worse and lead to more bloodflies? Yeah, it's all metaphysical, but it's just so clumsy. The Chaos system really worked in D1, and reinforced that you're in a city on the brink of collapse, poised for just a little nudge in either direction. And I loved how Corvo's choice at the end of the Daud DLC was the reflection of your own behavior. But it really didn't support the narrative of D2 all that well.
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Jan 15, 2022 00:50
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So if Alex Yu was a mimic, how come we dont see his mimic form? And were those robots of people you saved just computers? So how many typhoids are manipulating the main character? Just the brother, Alex.
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Jan 15, 2022 03:30
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kneelbeforezog posted:So if Alex Yu was a mimic, how come we dont see his mimic form? And were those robots of people you saved just computers? So how many typhoids are manipulating the main character? Just the brother, Alex. Where was it implied that Alex is a mimic? You were in a simulation, Alex is a human, and yeah, they're just computers, that may be based on people who lived on the station. I never got the impression he was a mimic at all. The main character is the mimic.
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Jan 15, 2022 04:16
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Dramatika posted:Where was it implied that Alex is a mimic? You were in a simulation, Alex is a human, and yeah, they're just computers, that may be based on people who lived on the station. I never got the impression he was a mimic at all. The main character is the mimic. More ending spoilers I like how it's ambiguous if the bots are computerized versions of the old crew or if they're radio relays, did a great job working for either a save/kill playthrough
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Jan 15, 2022 04:27
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kneelbeforezog posted:So if Alex Yu was a mimic, how come we dont see his mimic form? And were those robots of people you saved just computers? So how many typhoids are manipulating the main character? Just the brother, Alex. what
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Jan 15, 2022 05:06
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That's an incredible take.
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Jan 15, 2022 15:27
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I believe the bits are full brain scans, a la the same process we see in Moon Crash perfected by Morgans cousin Riley in Mooncrash.
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Jan 15, 2022 16:43
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Gaius Marius posted:Wolf 2 got GOTY because people have terrible loving taste in games It's hard because I loving loved Wolf 2s writing in every way but it's gunplay was absolutely Garbo. Like Wolf 2s writing was absolutely gold, everything from the forementioned Amerikkka sections to finally meeting Hitler. The character building of BJB was fantastic and the story was tense and full of stakes. So much of it reminded me of Inglorious Bastards, which it mimicked successfully. But goddamn was the gameplay a huge slog. You would do yourself a favor just finding a YouTube of the story beats and watch that. Thundercracker fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Jan 15, 2022 |
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Jan 15, 2022 20:33
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Prey is an exceptionally good game. I posted here about a year ago because I started playing prey after a 10 year gaming hiatus, and I was so surprised that games weren't 100% 3 hours of super shiny triple A bullshit like they were when I left the toxic game industry. Just did my third replay and its still an awesome game. The latest was a vanilla playthrough, so the beginning was scary hard. I love the fact that you can go pretty much anywhere from the start, so that even in a plain new game you can visit areas out of order and pick up quests in all sorts of ways. It makes the game so much more interesting and flexible..
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Jan 15, 2022 21:28
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Love the start of Prey more than many other immersive sim starts. And that beyond how good the scripted breaking the simulation opening is; it just feels good and fun crawling around the lobby, hoping for just a little bit of extra juice, trying to stick away from mimics, bashing everything you can... Imo, inventory upgrades should've been hard to find in-world stuff. Better suits or something. Makes more sense to have it be a physical thing than something you have to inject alien juice into your eyes for.
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Jan 15, 2022 23:52
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Beginning of prey is phenomenal.
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Jan 16, 2022 02:18
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Bogart posted:Love the start of Prey more than many other immersive sim starts. And that beyond how good the scripted breaking the simulation opening is; it just feels good and fun crawling around the lobby, hoping for just a little bit of extra juice, trying to stick away from mimics, bashing everything you can... You're injecting superior backpack organization skills. At the start of the game Morgan just shoves everything at random into the main compartment, by the end she's carefully organizing items and making use of all the ancillary pouches and pockets for maximum storage capacity.
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Jan 16, 2022 20:55
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ueNkRUUDFk If anyone wanted another reason to play it.
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Mar 5, 2022 09:48
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I'm doing I think my 3rd total play through of Prey, which is easily one of my favorite games released in the last ten years This time around, I'm going non-Typhon. The problem is I'll get to parts where I just know that certain Typhon powers would be so much more fun or efficient! But I have to play by my rules, I guess. Hey, someone had mentioned this earlier in the thread, but if you're New Game+ and you kill January as soon as you're able to, what happens?
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Mar 22, 2022 17:50
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Eason the Fifth posted:More ending spoilers ...what makes it ambiguous to you? When are those bots ever shown to be a relay, your main interaction with them is literally with the one's that are uploads of yourself, keying you into these bots containing an uploaded version of the person. The only leeway I'm seeing, is that off the top I couldn't prove that anything in that room or even Alex himself isn't a "radio relay" but there's nothing in the game to ever make us think of "radio relays." Seems like the sort of ambiguity where maybe there was an invisible pink unicorn in the room puppeting the bots and Alex with psychic marionette strings, how could you prove there wasn't? SCheeseman posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ueNkRUUDFk Do the other language options also localize the creepy stuff phantoms mumble?
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Mar 22, 2022 18:08
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Khanstant posted:...what makes it ambiguous to you? When are those bots ever shown to be a relay, your main interaction with them is literally with the one's that are uploads of yourself, keying you into these bots containing an uploaded version of the person. The only leeway I'm seeing, is that off the top I couldn't prove that anything in that room or even Alex himself isn't a "radio relay" but there's nothing in the game to ever make us think of "radio relays." Seems like the sort of ambiguity where maybe there was an invisible pink unicorn in the room puppeting the bots and Alex with psychic marionette strings, how could you prove there wasn't? I played in english but tried the spanish localization and yes, it does.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:46
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You got me, I'm the guy who believes in invisible pink unicorns.
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Mar 22, 2022 18:47
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So anyone try Weird West?
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Apr 8, 2022 21:30
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Less Fat Luke posted:So anyone try Weird West? I tried it really wanting to like it and was pretty much immediately turned off by the isometric overhead view. I mean, I knew this going in because of early screen shots, but aiming was a pain in the rear end and I kept shooting in to the sides of hills.
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Apr 8, 2022 22:46
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Less Fat Luke posted:So anyone try Weird West? It's okay, I'm on the 4th Journey now. Probably a bit repetitive but when it clicks and you find yourself gunning down a ghost town full of bandits Max Payne style as a gross pigman with a shotgun it's great. Mission structure is a bit too much go here and there on behalf of other characters.
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Apr 8, 2022 22:54
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Previa_fun posted:I tried it really wanting to like it and was pretty much immediately turned off by the isometric overhead view. I mean, I knew this going in because of early screen shots, but aiming was a pain in the rear end and I kept shooting in to the sides of hills. I found using slo-mo tactical mode works the best. For some reason the key to activate it was not bound in the settings.
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Apr 8, 2022 22:55
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I think encouraging you to kill "bad" NPC's in D1/D2 would be completely antithetical to what they were going for with the chaos system or the narrative. You're not Judge Dredd or The Punisher in that game (I mean, you can be, but canonically you aren't). And the rats eat cruel people and nice people the same way.Hannibal Rex posted:There's two problems with it, though. First, on a basic mechanical level, every time you reload, the Chaos state of all NPCs is reset. And second, and that might just be my opinion, there's way too many over the top grimdark lines when you use the Heart in D2. D1's writing wasn't flawless, but it was more nuanced in many ways. Maybe the lack of a voiced player character just made it feel that way, but then again, I think the Daud DLC was the best-written part of the series, and that wasn't voiceless. All D2's problems stem from it needlessly being a direct sequel with the same characters and the same story beats. When so much is already the same, of course you have to put in an equivalent to the rats. Of course the chaos meter needs to be there, and work exactly the same way as it did in D1. I don't know whose decision it was to basically make another D1 expansion, whether it was Bethesda or Arkane, but it really should have been set in the same world but just tell a different story with different characters. After or before the events in Dunwall. I still love the game, but it's inferior to D1 in many ways. itry fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Apr 21, 2022 |
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Apr 21, 2022 11:18
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I don't think you can blame Bethesda for that. Dishonored was Arkane's big breakthrough, so naturally, the pressure is on to deliver a sequel. D1 hat a lot of time to change and mature, but D2 felt rushed in comparison. I don't blame them for keeping familiar characters, both because it keeps fans oriented, and because they themselves have grown attached to their creations. But making Emily as Empress the protagonist runs contrary to the theme of D1, that the Outsider chooses the downtrodden innocent as his playthings. Both Emily and Corvo are very much at fault for the events of D2. Emily was a bad ruler, and Corvo was even worse as a spymaster. Delilah and her group have been plotting for years to do their little coup. Emily and Corvo have no idea of the state of her Empire, Emily obviously has no support in her own capital, or else she wouldn't have to ignominiously flee with a complete stranger. This is all just a function of the gameplay requirement to get her to Karnaca ASAP, but it's bad writing, and it undermines the narrative. Emily has been avoiding her duties as a ruler, and been parcouring across the rooftops instead. Now she's been Dishonored, and must prove she deserves to be Empress - by avoiding her duties to rally the people, and parcour across rooftops instead. And making Corvo a playable character is a similarly exasperating decision. I can fully understand the urge to bring him back, voiced by Stephen Russell, no less. All the old powers are back, for a separate playthrough! Except that to make that work, all the character writing had to be extra generic and impersonal, to work for two extremely dissimilar characters, who would have needed completely different narrative arcs. They've completely shot themselves in the foot with this.
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Apr 21, 2022 11:53
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All of that could have been avoided if they just resisted rehashing D1. Sadly by the way it turned out, and looking at D2's expansion (which I really didn't enjoy), I don't think we'll be getting another game in the same universe. Which sucks because it's such a rich setting.
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Apr 21, 2022 12:59
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itry posted:All of that could have been avoided if they just resisted rehashing D1. Sadly by the way it turned out, and looking at D2's expansion (which I really didn't enjoy), I don't think we'll be getting another game in the same universe. Which sucks because it's such a rich setting. We already had an Arkane game set the dishonored universe since then 
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