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Cowslips Warren
Oct 29, 2005

What use had they for tricks and cunning, living in the enemy's warren and paying his price?

Grimey Drawer
My friend dinged a car in a parking lot, a door ding that she isn't sure happened because the other car was black and had some white streaks of bird poo poo on it. She's freaked out because she tried to wipe it off, it didn't wipe (not sure if dry bird poo poo would either), and she left without leaving a note. Now I've heard varying stories about leaving notes in terms of small damages but I doubt her going back to leave a note now is going to help. Would this count as a hit and run? In AZ if that helps.

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Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

Cowslips Warren posted:

My friend dinged a car in a parking lot, a door ding that she isn't sure happened because the other car was black and had some white streaks of bird poo poo on it. She's freaked out because she tried to wipe it off, it didn't wipe (not sure if dry bird poo poo would either), and she left without leaving a note. Now I've heard varying stories about leaving notes in terms of small damages but I doubt her going back to leave a note now is going to help. Would this count as a hit and run? In AZ if that helps.

Lol

Forget it ever happened

Phil Moscowitz
Feb 19, 2007

If blood be the price of admiralty,
Lord God, we ha' paid in full!

FrozenVent posted:

You think you’re joking but yeah, COVID prevention measures could absolutely impact the owner’s duty of due diligence with regards to seaworthiness.

As to how this ties into the Jones Act gently caress if I know, the US is loving weird when it comes to health and safety onboard. Give me MLC and STCW / SOLAS any day of the week over whatever the USCG is smoking this week.

I don’t think I’m joking at all re unseaworthiness

If it resulted in an incident the vessel owner would probably get nailed on privity and knowledge too.

As for the Jones Act, it was just an example of an exception to the general comp exclusive remedy prohibition against suing your employer for negligence.

sleepy.eyes
Sep 14, 2007

Like a pig in a chute.
So, I'm a property manager in Florida. One of my tenants has been complaining a lot about things I've already fixed. At first I thought she was just jerking me around, but now I think she honestly doesn't remember what I've done or said to her day from day. Honestly, cuz of the whole memory thing if that's what it is, she's a pain in the rear end, bit mean I don't have anything against her. Sometimes she says her kids are alive, sometimes she said they're dead. I guess I'm asking is is there anything I can point her at? She's threatened to sue me personally several times for things that occurred before I was even hired by the current company, so I don't think she is the best grasp of how the law works.

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari
I have a legal in-law apartment with a separate entrance and driveway on my house in New Hampshire. If my father in-law moves in, and only has a small social security check, can he legally receive state assistance to help pay his rent to me?

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005




I saw some article the other day that was disputing the notion that shoplifting crimes were up because people that loaded up carts with stuff and walked out the door weren't "shoplifting", it was "organized retail theft". I've known a couple drug addicts and people that just made their living by stealing poo poo who have done exactly that and there was nothing organized about it. They weren't part of some crime syndicate. Is there a legal difference between sticking something in your pocket and walking out of the store vs. loading up a cart and walking out of the store?

edit: I think the article may have come from cracked.com, which I have learned to take anything they say with a huge grain of salt.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
The levels of theft in florida depend on the monetary amount of property stolen. Pocketing something might be a misdemeanor while the cartful might be a felony.

If there is any organization driving the theft, then you have conspiracy as well.

The majority of theft is wage theft, though, so gently caress wal mart.

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005




Mr. Nice! posted:

The levels of theft in florida depend on the monetary amount of property stolen. Pocketing something might be a misdemeanor while the cartful might be a felony.

If there is any organization driving the theft, then you have conspiracy as well.

The majority of theft is wage theft, though, so gently caress wal mart.

I more asking about the definition of theft/shoplifting. I guess that brings up the question of "is shoplifting an actual charge" or is the charge "theft" either way?

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.

SkunkDuster posted:

I more asking about the definition of theft/shoplifting. I guess that brings up the question of "is shoplifting an actual charge" or is the charge "theft" either way?

Depends on the state! In florida there is no separate offense for shoplifting. Larceny is larceny, and the level of offense depends on the value of goods taken and the means by which it was done.

An organized hit on a designers store is gonna carry with it harsher charges and penalties than pocketing a candybar, but both are theft in Florida.

Retail theft specifically has another statute that authorizes detention of shoplifters and other things associated with someone charged with theft where the victim is a farm or retail establishment.

Yoda
Dec 11, 2003

A Jedi I am

SkunkDuster posted:

I more asking about the definition of theft/shoplifting. I guess that brings up the question of "is shoplifting an actual charge" or is the charge "theft" either way?

When I handled primarily misdemeanors I would get a ton of class A thefts (punishable by 0-12 months in jail and a 5000 dollar fine, would most often recieve probation and/or community service), which in my jurisdiction means depriving an owner of the use of an item with a value between 0 and 5000 dollars. Over 5000 became a level 6 felony. I would say about 1/3 of the thefts that I dealt with were walmart shoplifting, 1/3 other major store shoplifting, and 1/3 minor store or personal theft. For Walmart, pretty much every (probably around 100-150) loss prevention report I read would say "due to the dollar amount of the merchandise, Walmart has chosen to press criminal charges." This language would be in there regardless of if the merchandise was a candy bar, bottle of formula, baby diapers, or a carload of electronics. I would always take a special level of deranged hate filled joy when that language was included on thefts under $1.

BigHead
Jul 25, 2003
Huh?


Nap Ghost
The only shoplifting we ever gave a poo poo about was the moms teaching their kids how to steal. Like hiding the headphones under the baby in the carrier, or having the 13 year old push the cart out because they're a minor and won't get in trouble. Robbery was a different story though. Don't beat up or stab the poor schmuck trying to feed his kids on minimum wage who was in the wrong place wrong time.

In the few shoplifting cases I ever took to trial there was a one hundred percent crossover to dirtbag parents. Took a lot of robberies to trial though.

What I'm saying is, don't do those things and maybe the prosecutor will have too much important things to do. He or she won't have time to ride to defend the honor of Walmart over a candy bar.

Edit: let me filter myself. Not everybody wants to hear war stories about the gruesome poo poo some of us see!

BigHead fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Jan 18, 2022

Sir Sidney Poitier
Aug 14, 2006

My favourite actor


I looked in BFC for a thread on companies but didn't see a relevant one, so this seems like the next best place.

I am in England.

Where I live, there's a small number of apartments in a large converted house. I own one of the apartments. The owners, long before my involvement, set up a company (#1) to manage the communal areas and each owner is a director of that company. When I moved in, this was active management - we each paid into a business account, there was a chequebook and we'd use that to pay for any work or bills relating to communal areas (maintenance, insurance, electricity).

Fast forward 8 years and we now pay a property management company (#2) to cover maintenance, insurance, and so on - however our own owners company (#1) still exists. At this stage I'm not sure why. I'm selling my apartment and have been asked for a share certificate - looking through the documents I saved from when I bought the place I can see one for the previous owner, but nothing related to me.

On Companies House I have looked through the filing history of the company (1) and can't see a share certificate, but I can see documents relating to my appointment as a director.

My questions:

1. What IS a share certificate? If appointments of directors and statements of capital have to be done on Companies House, what's the significance of this piece of paper?

2. How do I get one? I can assure you that not one of the current owners/directors knows anything about this sort of stuff, myself included, and anything I've picked up about using Companies House was simply because I had to due to threats of fines for not submitting accounts.

I don't like this company situation, I don't think it's a good one, and it's part of the reason I'm selling the place rather than keeping it and renting it out.

Jean-Paul Shartre
Jan 16, 2015

this sentence no verb


That's a unique factual situation, the best advice anyone here will give you (because as far as I know, none of us are conveyancing solicitors) is to talk to a conveyancing solicitor.

Skunkduster
Jul 15, 2005




Thanks for the replies on shoplifting. From my interpretation, it sounds like that article was trying to twist words around to imply that shoplifting was down by narrowing the definition of shoplifting to exclude other types of retail theft (such as walking out the door with a cart full off stuff).

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

SkunkDuster posted:

Thanks for the replies on shoplifting. From my interpretation, it sounds like that article was trying to twist words around to imply that shoplifting was down by narrowing the definition of shoplifting to exclude other types of retail theft (such as walking out the door with a cart full off stuff).

Ehhhh, it's more complicated than that.

I've probably defended a hundred or so shoplifting cases in the past two years. In my state "shoplifting' is any theft under $2000 dollars in value. It's a three-strikes crime, though, so the third offense is "shoplifting enhanced" and the penalty jumps up from 30 days to 10 years.

Most of them were either crimes of desperation (literally stealing food because starving, yes it happens, yes in America, it takes time to qualify for benefits and people don't know what to do when suddenly unemployed), crimes that really should be classified as individuals committing petty theft (e.g., you can't afford steaks for the family cookout, you buy the rest of the groceries but try to sneak out some meat), crimes that aren't even crimes (individual has mental breakdown in the charity shop and walks out carrying something he didn't pay for, not realizing he didn't pay for it), or crimes of addiction (for some reason drug dealers will trade crack for meat, so a lot of addicts try to steal meat to trade for drugs). Sometimes it's just straight bullshit ( buying groceries, eating a candy bar from the checkout line, card gets declined, everything else returned but charged with shoplifting the candy bar).

There's some rare actual organized planned crime that still falls within the monetary value limit (e.g., stealing a riding lawnmower that's sitting out in front of a store). There are also some people who get out of jail after long stints inside, don't know how to cope, and just brazenly shoplift as an attempt to get re-arrested so they can go back to jail.

None of that is armed robbery or like cleaning out a whole store or anything -- it's all, almost by definition, individual people committing one-off thefts of small dollar value items. I have heard of a few cases where dudes like just ran through the store trying to push everything into a single shopping cart and then like run down the street, but that poo poo never actually works and they get caught, I guess it's some dumb idea people are getting from the internet recently.

There's a recent Atlantic article on the huge "shoplifting" freak out in the media right now; the cracked article you refernce might have been ripping it off. It's here: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/12/shoplifting-holiday-theft-panic/621108/

quote:

The first indicator that the theft-wave narrative may not hold water is that stories about it tend to garble terms and numbers. They pair broad statistics about the commonness of shoplifting or larceny of any kind with lurid descriptions of brazen armed robberies (which aren’t included in any shoplifting stats, because they are a different crime entirely) to illustrate a narrowly defined problem: organized retail crime. This is identified as repetitive, mostly nonconfrontational theft for profit, whose perpetrators strive to evade detection and keep each theft strategically below local dollar thresholds for felony larceny. Misdemeanors don’t attract law-enforcement attention, the theory goes, so criminals are able to strike again and again and flip their hauls to fences, who consolidate millions of dollars of stolen goods into inventory for online storefronts, where Amazon and Etsy and eBay shield them from detection and punishment.

Whether any of these offenses—simple shoplifting, organized theft, or violent smash-and-grabs—are actually happening more frequently overall is, at best, ambiguous. If we look closely at crime statistics in San Francisco, which news stories paint as the epicenter of this crime wave and whose crime stats are often used to illustrate these stories, the idea doesn’t seem immediately ridiculous. Robberies, which is where smash-and-grabs generally fall, are slightly down citywide from 2020, according to the San Francisco Police Department, but larceny theft, which is where shoplifting would fall, is indeed up more than 19 percent. In the city’s central district, where expensive fashion boutiques and other kinds of retail outlets are clustered together, larceny theft was up 88 percent from 2020 as of early December, when CNN used the number to demonstrate the dire nature of San Francisco’s crime problem.

You’ve gotta admit, that’s a worrying number. Except, as you might remember, 2020 was kind of a weird year—people stayed home and many stores were closed for months at a time, which helped make the year’s crime statistics, to put it mildly, unique. In San Francisco, the murder rate was (and still is) up, but recorded larceny thefts were way, way down compared with 2019. Robberies were also down by almost a quarter. This year, the 88 percent increase in the central district’s larceny reports is still not enough to bring the area’s theft rate back up to pre-pandemic levels, which themselves had been dropping for decades.

So far, this dynamic holds true for much of the country, according to FBI statistics. In 2020, the most recent year for which data are available, reports of robbery and larceny fell off a cliff. If we see a big jump in the near future, especially in violent smash-and-grabs, it’s worth asking how much the recent media attention itself contributed to the spike. Research has shown that sensational news coverage can influence potential offenders to adopt highly publicized tactics in copycat crimes.


Basically, all crime statistics are fucky as hell right now because the pandemic is playing merry hell with all the trendlines. It's not really possible to say if crime is actually going up or down long term -- 2020-2021 might prove to be an outlier year or it might be the new normal, we don't know yet. Overall over the long term, violent crime is still waaaaay down since the 1990's, probably due to the reduction in atmospheric lead more than anything else.

The "organized retail theft" type thing, where it's like people coming across state lines to steal from chain stores then leaving, I've only seen like one or two cases like that. Generally those cases get dropped because the people doing the organizing are smart enough to steal from stores that are closing soon or that have high staff turnover, so by the court date nobody is still around who can testify "yeah, that person stole from our store" and the case gets dropped for lack of evidence / necessary witness. I suppose it could be happening more and they're just always getting away with it so I'm not seeing the arrests.

Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Jan 18, 2022

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015

Legal Questions: Some drug dealers will trade crack for meat.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.

bird with big dick posted:

Legal Questions: Some drug dealers will trade crack for meat.

Tide laundry detergent, too.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
Specifically Tide. Offbrand poo poo don't cut it. Tide liquid.

Sir Sidney Poitier
Aug 14, 2006

My favourite actor


JohnCompany posted:

That's a unique factual situation, the best advice anyone here will give you (because as far as I know, none of us are conveyancing solicitors) is to talk to a conveyancing solicitor.

Ironically, and incredibly frustratingly, I am asking here because my conveyancing solicitor is worse than useless. I thought it was worth a punt asking here because the alternatives were persist in getting nowhere with them, or start the whole process afresh with someone new including the associated delays and extra costs.

Edit: I also assumed this was a company law question rather than a conveyancing one, since it was focused on what a share certificate is and what it means - I figured this would apply to any company.

Sir Sidney Poitier fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Jan 18, 2022

blarzgh
Apr 14, 2009

SNITCHIN' RANDY
Grimey Drawer
In Texas the statute doesn't say "shoplifting" it's just "Theft" and then the amount greater or less-than for the level

Joker
Aug 6, 2001

daslog posted:

I have a legal in-law apartment with a separate entrance and driveway on my house in New Hampshire. If my father in-law moves in, and only has a small social security check, can he legally receive state assistance to help pay his rent to me?

I’m a Social Worker in NH, not a legal expert. He’s probably receiving rental assistance from New Hampshire Housing Authority or the local housing authority (ex Manchester Housing Authority). I would call NH housing and finance authority with this question. https://www.nhhfa.org

Joker fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Jan 18, 2022

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

Mr. Nice! posted:

Specifically Tide. Offbrand poo poo don't cut it. Tide liquid.

Tide and a lot of other random poo poo are locked up in the Walgreens closest to me for this reason.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:
Can anyone explain the tide thing? There must be dozens of other goods that fit whatever profile causes tide to be a desirable drug currency.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.

Outrail posted:

Can anyone explain the tide thing? There must be dozens of other goods that fit whatever profile causes tide to be a desirable drug currency.

My guess its is real easy to fence name brand tide at flea markets and the such but not so much off brand stuff.

Plus you can return brand new unopened bottles back to the store they were stolen from for a refund or gift card which can then be used for whatever.

Anne Whateley
Feb 11, 2007
:unsmith: i like nice words
Nonperishable, in demand, and high-value (for a grocery store)

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Outrail posted:

Can anyone explain the tide thing? There must be dozens of other goods that fit whatever profile causes tide to be a desirable drug currency.

Relatively high value for it's size, common and anonymous if offloading it to a shady store for cash, everyone needs it so it moves relatively quickly, the brand is a known quality so there's no hesitance about accepting it, doesn't spoil or go bad and doesn't have any storage requirements like refrigeration.

Powdered baby formula is another big one.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

One more thing on the "shoplifting/organized retail theft" thing is that statistics all rely on reporting, and SF (and probably other places) are not consistent in whether or how businesses report thefts. If filling out a police report for a shoplifting attempt is a pain in the rear end and literally costs more (in the wages and time/opportunity cost of the manager who has to do it) than the thefts themselves, why bother? If your underpaid store security detains a shoplifter, you call the police, and it takes them two hours to show up, are you going to keep doing that? Wal-Mart's policy of pressing charges for every pack of pokemon cards pocketed by some kid is not the same approach pursued by every mom & pop bodega.

There's also perception: the district attorney for San Francisco has been very controversial and there's a (mostly false, as it turns out) perception, including within the business community, that the DAs office decided not to bother prosecuting low-level theft any more. This perception, along with a strong nationwide conservative narrative about prop 47 (which reduced the charge for thefts below $950 to a misdemeanor) trying to portray it as having increased crime (it didn't), is what's been driving a lot of the news reporting about retail thefts in the media.

The fact is we don't have statistics going back in time that separate out "shoplifting" from other forms of theft; the data we do have is so inconsistently collected and recorded that it's unreliable anyway; and there's no current evidence to show that shoplifting or retail crime is "on the rise" other than a big increase over 2020, a year when retail outlets were closed for months which created an aberration in the (bad) data.

tl;dr, suddenly retail theft/shoplifting is a heavily politicized topic pitting law & order tough on crime right-wingers against soft-on-crime liberal loonie left coast liberals, but it's not actually a growing problem at all.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

Mr. Nice! posted:

My guess its is real easy to fence name brand tide at flea markets and the such but not so much off brand stuff.

Plus you can return brand new unopened bottles back to the store they were stolen from for a refund or gift card which can then be used for whatever.

And easy to cut.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Leperflesh posted:



tl;dr, suddenly retail theft/shoplifting is a heavily politicized topic pitting law & order tough on crime right-wingers against soft-on-crime liberal loonie left coast liberals, but it's not actually a growing problem at all.

I have noticed, at least subjectively and locally in my area, that there seems to be a big spike in shoplifting *arrests* lately, often on older charges from years ago. I have to wonder if it's not just a matter of the media narrative driving more arrests generally.


What I don't have any explanation for is the murder / death rate spike over the past couple years. It's weird and real and there doesn't seem to be a good explanation for it that I've seen yet.

Outrail
Jan 4, 2009

www.sapphicrobotica.com
:roboluv: :love: :roboluv:

Leperflesh posted:

One more thing on the "shoplifting/organized retail theft" thing is that statistics all rely on reporting, and SF (and probably other places) are not consistent in whether or how businesses report thefts. If filling out a police report for a shoplifting attempt is a pain in the rear end and literally costs more (in the wages and time/opportunity cost of the manager who has to do it) than the thefts themselves, why bother? If your underpaid store security detains a shoplifter, you call the police, and it takes them two hours to show up, are you going to keep doing that? Wal-Mart's policy of pressing charges for every pack of pokemon cards pocketed by some kid is not the same approach pursued by every mom & pop bodega.

There's also perception: the district attorney for San Francisco has been very controversial and there's a (mostly false, as it turns out) perception, including within the business community, that the DAs office decided not to bother prosecuting low-level theft any more. This perception, along with a strong nationwide conservative narrative about prop 47 (which reduced the charge for thefts below $950 to a misdemeanor) trying to portray it as having increased crime (it didn't), is what's been driving a lot of the news reporting about retail thefts in the media.

The fact is we don't have statistics going back in time that separate out "shoplifting" from other forms of theft; the data we do have is so inconsistently collected and recorded that it's unreliable anyway; and there's no current evidence to show that shoplifting or retail crime is "on the rise" other than a big increase over 2020, a year when retail outlets were closed for months which created an aberration in the (bad) data.

tl;dr, suddenly retail theft/shoplifting is a heavily politicized topic pitting law & order tough on crime right-wingers against soft-on-crime liberal loonie left coast liberals, but it's not actually a growing problem at all.

So what you're saying is there could be an increase in shoplifting, we just can't prove it? Better release some brazen articles just in case.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT SHOPLIFTING CRIME WAVE
Comments by law thread user leperflesh indicate there may be an unreported rash of shoplifting in some states with illegal immigration.......

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

What I don't have any explanation for is the murder / death rate spike over the past couple years. It's weird and real and there doesn't seem to be a good explanation for it that I've seen yet.

Wild-assed guess, but since most murders are people killing someone they know well, maybe people have been forced to get to know each other a bit too well in the last two years.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

Leperflesh posted:

Wild-assed guess, but since most murders are people killing someone they know well, maybe people have been forced to get to know each other a bit too well in the last two years.

There's also been a big spike in the juvenile death rate. My best guess is it's just "Desperation is up up up!" but I don't really have any concrete idea at all. Genuine public policy mystery which is weird.

Leperflesh
May 17, 2007

The death rate in general? Yeah there might be some other thing going on for the last two years that kills people, maybe
some sort of epidemic of premature deaths

Bad Munki
Nov 4, 2008

We're all mad here.


Sounds made up

Ham Equity
Apr 16, 2013

The first thing we do, let's kill all the cars.
Grimey Drawer

sleepy.eyes posted:

So, I'm a property manager in Florida. One of my tenants has been complaining a lot about things I've already fixed. At first I thought she was just jerking me around, but now I think she honestly doesn't remember what I've done or said to her day from day. Honestly, cuz of the whole memory thing if that's what it is, she's a pain in the rear end, bit mean I don't have anything against her. Sometimes she says her kids are alive, sometimes she said they're dead. I guess I'm asking is is there anything I can point her at? She's threatened to sue me personally several times for things that occurred before I was even hired by the current company, so I don't think she is the best grasp of how the law works.

IANAL, but maybe try reaching out to Adult Protective Services?

daslog
Dec 10, 2008

#essereFerrari

Joker posted:

I’m a Social Worker in NH, not a legal expert. He’s probably receiving rental assistance from New Hampshire Housing Authority or the local housing authority (ex Manchester Housing Authority). I would call NH housing and finance authority with this question. https://www.nhhfa.org

Thank you!

Azuth0667
Sep 20, 2011

By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.
Lawgoons where do I find a lawyer that specializes in contract negotiations?

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Azuth0667 posted:

Lawgoons where do I find a lawyer that specializes in contract negotiations?

What's in it for me? :colbert:

Azuth0667
Sep 20, 2011

By the word of Zoroaster, no business decision is poor when it involves Ahura Mazda.

Volmarias posted:

What's in it for me? :colbert:

You get to skullfuck an awful organization for $.

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evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

Azuth0667 posted:

Lawgoons where do I find a lawyer that specializes in contract negotiations?

how much money is at issue? and what kind of contract?

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