Saladman posted:

That paper ( https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.05.22268800v2.full.pdf ) also looks like a good demonstration of p-hacking. They do chi-squared tests, ok great, but then they don't appear to correct for the fact that they're testing 10 different "long COVID" outcomes. If you actually look at the data in Table 3, then you see there's really nothing significant. Look at how many tests they are doing in Table 3! And how small the sample sizes are for some of those, like n = 4 for vaccinated + dizziness. Literally none of the trends are even nominally significant for the "received one vaccine" cohort, which often has larger n than "received two". I get that it's hard to get good numbers on the vaccinated people who got COVID (especially since this is pre-Omicron, when the vaccine helped significantly against infection). That table is like a textbook case of ruining statistics with multiple testing, which I went through their methods and could find absolutely no mention of. There is zero chance that paper will be published in any respectable journal that does real peer review – at least not unless they increase their sample size and do their stats properly.

StratGoatCom posted:

We got malaria out of the states in the god drat 40s and 50s, and it was in mozzies.

StratGoatCom posted:

This is a strawman, outside of Wang Commander. Management of reservoirs to reduce density of population (and thus ability to host the thing) and tendency to come in contact with people, through means such as more aggressive anti rodent measures, deer culls (they're already overpopulated) and predator restorations.

We got malaria out of the states in the god drat 40s and 50s, and it was in mozzies.

Saladman posted:

That paper ( https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.01.05.22268800v2.full.pdf ) also looks like a good demonstration of p-hacking. They do chi-squared tests, ok great, but then they don't appear to correct for the fact that they're testing 10 different "long COVID" outcomes. If you actually look at the data in Table 3, then you see there's really nothing significant. Look at how many tests they are doing in Table 3! And how small the sample sizes are for some of those, like n = 4 for vaccinated + dizziness. Literally none of the trends are even nominally significant for the "received one vaccine" cohort, which often has larger n than "received two". I get that it's hard to get good numbers on the vaccinated people who got COVID (especially since this is pre-Omicron, when the vaccine helped significantly against infection). That table is like a textbook case of ruining statistics with multiple testing, which I went through their methods and could find absolutely no mention of. There is zero chance that paper will be published in any respectable journal that does real peer review – at least not unless they increase their sample size and do their stats properly.

quote:

More than two-thirds of the common side-effects people experience after a Covid jab can be attributed to a negative version of the placebo effect rather than the vaccine itself, researchers claim.

Scientists in the US examined data from 12 clinical trials of Covid vaccines and found that the “nocebo effect” accounted for about 76% of all common adverse reactions after the first dose and nearly 52% after the second dose.

The findings suggest that a substantial proportion of milder side-effects, such as headaches, short-term fatigue, and arm pain are not produced by the constituents of the vaccine, but by other factors thought to generate the nocebo response, including anxiety, expectation and misattributing various ailments to having had the jab.

In view of their results, the researchers argue that better public information about nocebo responses may improve Covid vaccine uptake by reducing the concerns that make some people hesitant.

“Telling patients that the intervention they are taking has side-effects that are similar to placebo treatments for the condition in randomised controlled trials actually reduces anxiety and makes patients take a moment to consider the side-effect,” said Ted Kaptchuk, professor of global health and social medicine at Harvard medical school, and a senior author on the study. “But we need more research.”

Kaptchuck and Dr Julia Haas at the Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston analysed adverse events reported during a dozen clinical trials of Covid vaccines. In each trial, those in the placebo arm were given injections of inactive salt solution instead of vaccine. The study did not look at severe, rare side-effects such as blood clots or heart inflammation.

Writing in the journal Jama Network Open, the researchers describe how after the first injection more than 35% of those in the placebo groups experienced so-called “systemic” side-effects, such as headache and fatigue, with 16% reporting site-specific ailments including arm pain or redness or swelling at the injection site.

As expected, those who received a first shot of vaccine were more likely to experience side-effects. About 46% reported systemic symptoms and two-thirds experienced arm pain or other localised symptoms at the injection site.

When the researchers looked at side-effects after the second jab, they found the rate of headaches or other systemic symptoms was nearly twice as high in the vaccine group compared with the placebo group, at 61% and 32% respectively. The difference was even greater for local ailments, reaching 73% among those who had the vaccine and 12% in the placebo group.

Overall, the researchers calculate that about two-thirds of common side-effects reported in Covid vaccine trials are driven by the nocebo effect, in particular headaches and fatigue, which many Covid vaccine leaflets list as the most common adverse reactions after a shot.

While evidence suggests that information about side-effects can cause people to misattribute common ailments to the vaccine, or make people hyper-alert to how they are feeling, Kaptchuk argues for more information about side-effects, not less. “Most researchers argue that patients should be told less about side-effects to reduce their anxiety,” he said. “I think this is wrong. Honesty is the way to go.”

How are u posted:

‘Nocebo effect’: two-thirds of Covid jab reactions not caused by vaccine, study suggests
US trial shows inverse version of placebo effect behind many symptoms such as headaches and fatigue

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests

The human mind is such a wild and ill-understood thing. I wonder if some long-covid sufferers are experiencing something similar? These are hella stressful times, I wouldn't be surprised if a fair % are just stressed and scared and anxious as all hell. I can't blame anybody for feeling that way.

How are u posted:

‘Nocebo effect’: two-thirds of Covid jab reactions not caused by vaccine, study suggests
US trial shows inverse version of placebo effect behind many symptoms such as headaches and fatigue

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests

The human mind is such a wild and ill-understood thing. I wonder if some long-covid sufferers are experiencing something similar? These are hella stressful times, I wouldn't be surprised if a fair % are just stressed and scared and anxious as all hell. I can't blame anybody for feeling that way.

StratGoatCom posted:

If something that helps it in some way, like, say something that makes it less likely to kill a mouse, or doesn't hurt it that makes it more deadly. Our current measures sure as poo poo don't penalize tendencies to kill.

This is a strawman, outside of Wang Commander. Management of reservoirs to reduce density of population (and thus ability to host the thing) and tendency to come in contact with people, through means such as more aggressive anti rodent measures, deer culls (they're already overpopulated) and predator restorations.

We got malaria out of the states in the god drat 40s and 50s, and it was in mozzies.

How are u posted:

‘Nocebo effect’: two-thirds of Covid jab reactions not caused by vaccine, study suggests
US trial shows inverse version of placebo effect behind many symptoms such as headaches and fatigue

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/jan/18/nocebo-effect-two-thirds-of-covid-jab-reactions-not-caused-by-vaccine-study-suggests

The human mind is such a wild and ill-understood thing. I wonder if some long-covid sufferers are experiencing something similar? These are hella stressful times, I wouldn't be surprised if a fair % are just stressed and scared and anxious as all hell. I can't blame anybody for feeling that way.

UCS Hellmaker posted:

and all honesty the dumb discussion of culling animal "reservoirs" ignores actual reality, anything we could theoratically do would do IMMENSE DAMAGE to the ecosystem and other parts that aren't said targets, and largely is impossible without basically carpetbombing areas. Its just stupid ideas being built off a post from someone that is threadbanned

quote:

It becoming more attuned to other animals will in fact largely make it less deadly to humans, much like many diseases that do so.

cat botherer posted:

The deer overpopulation in the eastern US has exploded tick populations and lyme disease. The COVID just adds to that deer poo poo sundae. It's really hard to manage the population when they do great in suburbs, there's no real predators, and there is little public land to hunt. The wolf-coyote hybrids moving in are a fascinating response to this, but wild canids make everyone absolutely flip out.

Rust Martialis posted:

denmark

Riptor posted:

definitely something interesting happening in Denmark as compared to the UK and US, both of which are now showing a drop in cases. Could be a matter of timing - would be very surprised if it doesn't turn downwards beginning next week or so

Riptor posted:

definitely something interesting happening in Denmark as compared to the UK and US, both of which are now showing a drop in cases. Could be a matter of timing - would be very surprised if it doesn't turn downwards beginning next week or so

Levitate posted:

people also tend to get mad about the idea of culling deer because "they're cute and aren't hurting anything and it's mean!"

Riptor posted:

definitely something interesting happening in Denmark as compared to the UK and US, both of which are now showing a drop in cases. Could be a matter of timing - would be very surprised if it doesn't turn downwards beginning next week or so

UCS Hellmaker posted:

Naw, only people that havent had those fuckers suicide into your car at any moment just because you were sitting there. gently caress deer.

Also you can't kill all the ticks, then you will kill off the ems spirit animal, the possum the glorious trash panda

Stickman posted:

Four per residential address is a big old gently caress you to families. Especially bad in places like Hawai’i with a ton of large multigenerational households with rental units that don’t have separate addresses. We rent a unit that shares an address with eight other people in two separate families…

Riptor posted:

Do you have unit numbers?

Insanite posted:

My friend just tried to order some, but he was denied because his address in a large apartment building was already 'taken.'

Insanite posted:

Good news! Seems like they're ignoring unit numbers.

My friend just tried to order some, but he was denied because his address in a large apartment building was already 'taken.'

This also seems to be the case for a lot of people on Twitter.

Riptor posted:

well this seems absolutely insane

Thom12255 posted:

Sounds like a "the government told us to do this on super short notice and the guys who made the website didn't even think about this poo poo".

Rust Martialis posted:

Denmark - 18 January 2022

So yeah it's slamming school children now. Look at the case and hospitalization counts climb while ICU and ventilation counts drop - it's kids.

Zodium posted:

Zodium posted:

Zodium posted:

Zodium posted:

yeah it's not looking so hot.

Zodium posted:

hmm, you think?

Stickman posted:

Four per residential address is a big old gently caress you to families. Especially bad in places like Hawai’i with a ton of large multigenerational households with rental units that don’t have separate addresses. We rent a unit that shares an address with eight other people in two separate families…

E: I guess Ill just try making up some “1/2” address or something and see if usps will deliver a postcard.

Henrik Zetterberg posted:

Family of 7 here. Gotta pick my favorite kids I guess.

Thanks Biden.

Zodium posted:

hmm, you think?

Åben Mette.