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Moonshine Rhyme posted:That rules, I love how the large majority of weird bugs in this game only make the game harder Not just that. But design decisions. Bruisers, who do massive damage, completely hiding their weakspot to stop their charge and super damage slide. Retches being able to instantly puke once it has eye line on you(and bugged will puke through walls). Clearing a room and then having stuff spawn inside it because someone wasn't looking at it. The basics of the game are cool. I would love to see more card builds to help with variety. but dear lord the developer has no idea how to design challenge that isn't just punch in face all the time and be stupid. Also fortune card can increase your copper per round by 0, not just 25 to 50.
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Jan 19, 2022 04:29
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TheJadedOne posted:Not just that. But design decisions. Bruisers, who do massive damage, completely hiding their weakspot to stop their charge and super damage slide. Retches being able to instantly puke once it has eye line on you(and bugged will puke through walls). Clearing a room and then having stuff spawn inside it because someone wasn't looking at it. The basics of the game are cool. I would love to see more card builds to help with variety. but dear lord the developer has no idea how to design challenge that isn't just punch in face all the time and be stupid. Also fortune card can increase your copper per round by 0, not just 25 to 50. Now fundamentally the game is not about Playing Well and avoiding game the way it is in games like Vermintides or L4D. If you're good, you can not take a single hit. This is not a game for high skill ceiling in being good and not getting hit. You can still be better about it, but it's a game about resource attrition and minimizing resource use. But then even then some real hosed monsterous special combination can just end even a well-planned and executed run. We once had a near flawless run sort-of end in the A3 Gardens region because the breaker spawned super far away and called the bee-swarm far beyond our party and then jumped across the map to us just almost instantly killing everyone and the bees pretty much finished the rest off.
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Jan 19, 2022 05:00
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Xaris posted:We once had a near flawless run sort-of end in the A3 Gardens region because the breaker spawned super far away and called the bee-swarm far beyond our party and then jumped across the map to us just almost instantly killing everyone and the bees pretty much finished the rest off. I think that's the part that ticks me off the most, you can go good stretches of near flawless play even on nightmare and it feels good. Then the RNG does something completely batshit insane and you just wipe. Even in hindsight, it's not obvious what could have been done differently with how aggressively it spawns specials near the player without a warning cue sometimes. They just spawn and launch into an attack like a versus player, no little wind up to announce their presence. Which is something very odd and bassackwards. Specials that spawns far away give a cry to notify they exist. You even get captions! But specials that spawn way too close skip this "I have arrived!" announcement and launch into their attacks immediately. The first subtitle cue is their attack grunt, little too late to recognize the threat, especially when it just spawned in the bathroom 5 feet away that you walked out of less than a second ago. It's like.... under these circumstances is EXACTLY when I would want the specials to stop and do their "I EXIST" roar, even if it only buys the team 1-2 seconds to turn and shoot it before it activates. But, it's only under these conditions they bypass their announcement because they already have an attack in range and choose to do that instead. Bluuuuuuurgh.
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Jan 19, 2022 08:42
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I agree with everything that's been said, aye. Specials aren't very well designed, but I like the rest of the game better than L4D. I wish it had a couple more crazy levels and personality, but when I went back to play through L4D2 I found myself getting kinda bored outside of the big setpieces. This might also be due to me being wildly better at games since 10 years ago. The specials in L4D2 don't get to exist for more than a second before they get domed by my usual group.
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Jan 19, 2022 11:46
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Xaiter posted:I think that's the part that ticks me off the most, you can go good stretches of near flawless play even on nightmare and it feels good. Then the RNG does something completely batshit insane and you just wipe. Even in hindsight, it's not obvious what could have been done differently with how aggressively it spawns specials near the player without a warning cue sometimes. They just spawn and launch into an attack like a versus player, no little wind up to announce their presence. Even in L4D versus players cant spawn with LOS of a survivor (even if the survivor has their back turned) and on top of that they cant spawn within a certain distance of a survivor at all. I have literally seen a bruisier spawn 3 feet in front of me in this game. I feel like one of the reasons for this level of BS with specials is they expect you to counter it with your own BS via cards. Having a 100% accuracy build or perma stumble shotgun would probably shut down any of the L4D style specials or their spawns. But, at least to me, this kinda ruins the depth of the moment to moment gameplay because you just beeline to some deck that trivializes the specials, otherwise they trivialize you. It feels more like a RPG than a shooter in that sense. Which sucks because the guns and gunplay are great and tacked-on diablo style loot is fun.
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Jan 19, 2022 13:30
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Moonshine Rhyme posted:Yeah, a lot of the depth is locked behind card unlocks too. If you can't get through the run and get some of the early good stuff, you aren't really seeing what the game has to offer.
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Jan 19, 2022 14:26
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One huge issue that only shows up in a few places is the fact that you just instant die in so many places. In act 2 it is bad in the clog levels. In act one on the ferry. going from bridge to ferry I got bumped and slid off the edge and into the water insta dying instead of grabbing the side of the boat so I could be saved. It is just dumb game design.
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Jan 20, 2022 04:01
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They really should have put in a dodge function Also do the spitter projectiles come at anyone else in about 4 long frames?
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Jan 20, 2022 04:16
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:They really should have put in a dodge function I think I've seen this. I see a spitter take his little pose and get ready to hork, and I immediately start moving left or right. I can see the spit go where I was, but I still take damage. I just assumed it was a latency issue. My issues with the game have mostly all been addressed with the December patch, and I still have great fun playing. I had reservations about the card system, but I found it to be the best part of the game. I really enjoy adjusting the decks and changing my play style to take advantage of different bonuses and drawbacks.
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Jan 20, 2022 13:27
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I hate the characters. So much so that I wish I could just play a generic survivor or create my own somehow. Not a single one is likeable and not a single piece of dialogue they share is worthwhile. Everything they say makes me groan. I’ve turned dialogue volume and subtitles completely off.
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Jan 20, 2022 15:07
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Ichabod Tane posted:I hate the characters. So much so that I wish I could just play a generic survivor or create my own somehow. Not a single one is likeable and not a single piece of dialogue they share is worthwhile. Everything they say makes me groan. I’ve turned dialogue volume and subtitles completely off. I love Doc, her lines are fine (except the mutating virus line), I just wish she had a different voice actress. Something about the sound of her voice rubs me the wrong way and I can't figure out why, maybe too nasal-y? Karlee is such a Debbie Downer, but that can be funny sometimes. Hoffman is the worst and hearing him huff and puff all game is not worth it at all to get his unique passives. Holly is pretty good overall. Mom's alright until you get the right party comp and go into her backstory. Evangelo is annoying, but in an endearing kind of way. Jim and Walker are bland enough that I don't remember which voice lines go to which character I hope the new Cleaners have more fun to them, I know it's the apocalypse, but still
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Jan 20, 2022 16:19
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You can set dialog volume to 0. I have no idea what’s happening or who’s got a tragic backstory. It’s blessed silence and zombie chopping.
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Jan 20, 2022 16:37
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Evangelo is too much of an annoying dork. "This is my grateful face  " ughhhKarlee is just mean and unpleasant. While healing you: "I don't have to do this, you know" Like, no poo poo. No one asked you to. gently caress off
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Jan 20, 2022 16:45
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WHY BONER NOW posted:Karlee is just mean and unpleasant. While healing you: "I don't have to do this, you know" She has the absolute worst dialog, but I can't stop choosing her. Her bonuses are too much for me to pass up. Hoffman is a super-Chud and annoying as well.
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Jan 20, 2022 17:05
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holly- I like Holly because Karlee is such a edgy dork and holly antagonizes her. Karlee - an edgy dork that makes most of our 4-man stack audibly groan whenever she talks. Doc - pretty ok Mom - pretty ok Jim - I know he is a hunter because the other party members yell “I THOUGHT YOU WERE A HUNTER” when you friendly fire them. Hoffman - would be funnier if the world wasn’t the way it was. Walker - army man? Probably Ex Special Forces because he has a bad Larry patch on his mag pouch. I literally cannot remember a single line of his. Evangelo - doofus but mostly ok
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Jan 20, 2022 17:13
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I think Hoffman is kind of funny. They gave him enough eccentricity that he's more like an x-files conspiracy theorist than a Q-Anon disciple and the voice actor has some good deliveries. Jim, Walker, and Mom are bland and phoned in. No one is so bad that I feel the need to mute but I hope they record more dialogue. The in game lines are much better than the cutscene lines like "but you weren't just in the neighborhood, were you?"
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Jan 20, 2022 18:00
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Honestly they should just ask Valve if they can port in Ellis. I don't remember any of the other characters lines from L4D2, but i certainly remember that dork.
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Jan 20, 2022 18:29
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dogstile posted:Honestly they should just ask Valve if they can port in Ellis. Ellis had some funny lines in L4D2, but when he was a bot player, all he did was hoover pills and the adrenaline shots. Dude had a dark problem IRL 
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Jan 20, 2022 19:48
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You don't get a lot of the character dialogue unless you have certain cleaner combinations (and I think even with certain maps). Hoffman is a prepper but not in the 'Ridden are a liberal conspiracy'  but because he has dependency issues from his father not supporting him. He always defers to authority figures like Walker or Col. Hardchin. I think it was during the level with the flooded out yard with the prefab trailers that you learn that Mom has cancer and that's probably why the Ridden don't infect her but you only hear that dialogue if Doc is in the party at the same time.Walker and Holly have a dialogue during 'The Road to Hell' where she had to abandon her family. Once again it only occurs if those two characters are in the party.
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Jan 20, 2022 19:52
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Yeah, of all the criticisms to have, I’m not seeing the characters or voice actors being the forefront, or even bad on the whole. Hoffman for example — on the surface he’s a prepper rear end in a top hat, but you see that he’s like he is because of his father and you hear what feels like real sadness to me. There are a few other ones. Jim is completely forgettable when he should be my favorite since he’s supposed to be a Yinzer (think Pittsburghese). Holly’s delivery is wooden sometimes. Walker can be wooden. I don’t mind the others so far as quality is concerned and really enjoy the banter for the most part.
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Jan 20, 2022 20:31
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I ended up playing Jim when I was solo because he just seems to be kind of isolated from the rest even when he's in a group, while my friend and I ended up meaning mom and doc because they have a pretty good friendly dynamic.
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Jan 20, 2022 20:47
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I had to give up on my solo playthrough but my gods, it was a buggy experience, especially when a Breaker spawned outside of the playable area and I had to plink away for aaaaaaages. https://youtu.be/WY0wrw8wrEg
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Jan 21, 2022 20:28
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Does anyone know how cards work in quickplay? Sometimes I join a game and I get to pick like a dozen extra cards. Is it based on how much intel players pick up over the run? Also, some abilities that were on the bot like Marked for Death and the combat knife seem to carry over to my selected character for one or more rounds without appearing in my Active Cards. Bug or feature?
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Jan 26, 2022 22:21
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:Does anyone know how cards work in quickplay? Sometimes I join a game and I get to pick like a dozen extra cards. Is it based on how much intel players pick up over the run? So you’ll have whatever cards the bot has if you join mid match. Once you finish you’ll be be assigned the first X number of cards in your deck depending on how far along you are. There’s a bug where you’ll also have your bot’s character ability and cards for the next round or until you die/respawn. I think that’s how it works currently. I’ve had like 290hp because of the bug. It was rad. I’ve also had no ADS in a deck not built for it. It’s a mixed bag.
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Jan 26, 2022 23:01
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The Wiggly Wizard posted:Does anyone know how cards work in quickplay? Sometimes I join a game and I get to pick like a dozen extra cards. Is it based on how much intel players pick up over the run? Act 1: Starter card + 1 Act 2: Starter card + 3 Act 3: Starter card + 4 And then you receive an additional card per subsequent chapter. My big conclusion is that you should build your deck on how you'd like to progress through an act. If you'd like to get your team's economy off the ground right away you should put Money Grubbers as your starter card or at least put it in your first 5 cards so you're guaranteed to be able to pick it as your 2nd-5th cards in the deck.
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Jan 27, 2022 15:59
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Yeah but yesterday I joined a game and got 5 starter cards and 23 picks. I think you get +1 card if the party used a continue but that still doesn’t account for the extra cards. I’ll try to document next time it happens
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Jan 27, 2022 17:24
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It could also be the case where all of the players and not bots threw down cards for extra continues and they've been wiping repeatedly. I'm not sure how burn cards would affect the number of cards you can actually draw if you joined a game in progress.
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Jan 27, 2022 19:39
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There's a bug where it gives you a card for every card the bot should have had but then also lets you pick a fresh set of cards based on the stage number, essentially doubling your total card count. Only really happens when you take over for a bot later into the campaign, not sure if it's repeatable or not either.
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Jan 28, 2022 02:58
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Cinara posted:There's a bug where it gives you a card for every card the bot should have had but then also lets you pick a fresh set of cards based on the stage number, essentially doubling your total card count. Only really happens when you take over for a bot later into the campaign, not sure if it's repeatable or not either. Some of it isn't a bug, but intended. I think it was confirmed by the devs that when you pick up intel cards, it counts those as a "card" to draw when a player fills that slot. It just sees "Oh, they have 28 cards because they picked up like 20 intel over the last six maps." and lets you draw an extra 20 cards on top of what you should have.
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Jan 28, 2022 15:11
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Xaiter posted:Some of it isn't a bug, but intended. Ah yeah, didn’t account for the pickup cards. I hope they add more cards, I’d love to see a card that you can only buy mid-run that gives you five extra cards but randomizes all your current cards. Think like the D20 in Binding of Isaac but with some incentive to use it (the five extra cards).
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Jan 28, 2022 16:17
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tehinternet posted:Ah yeah, didn’t account for the pickup cards. You know what? This is a brilliant idea. More bizarre ways to change draws or active cards or whatever. Right now, you can only add new cards that are randomly generated. Either "real perks" that cost money or the free basics. Why not an intel box that's literally just your current top card? Costs, I dunno, 400-800 weighted randomly based on how many maps into the campaign you are. Is it worth some copper now for an extra on your build? What about a shredder where you sacrifice a randomly selected card you've already drawn for two new random cards? Or a free perk card with a free curse card that's just a debuff. Really, there's a buttload of crazy stuff that could be done, given that line of thinking
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Jan 28, 2022 23:55
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Xaiter posted:You know what? This is a brilliant idea. More bizarre ways to change draws or active cards or whatever. Yeah, given the relatively small community it might be worth posting in their forums. Incorporating more Isaac type stuff (that people could choose to engage with) could lead to more interesting gameplay IMO.
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Jan 29, 2022 00:05
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Yeah I was actually kind of disappointed to discover that the decks are so linear, I liked the idea of them being random. It is neat that you can kind of plan your run around your draw but I doubt I'll ever get to a point where I'm like, "ah yes Experienced EMT is critical to the summer camp level, better have it as card number 10" or whatever. I'd like more random stuff, a lot of games with this kind of perk setup have more randomization, it'd be fun as optional twists at least.
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Jan 29, 2022 07:43
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It would be nice if they "Player X defended Player Y" notification was tuned better. Right now you can kill something actively attacking someone and it doesn't proc, while killing something running 15 feet away you get it. Also it would be cool if they credited players with special kills like in Left 4 Dead.
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Feb 3, 2022 20:12
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This game sucks. I really tried to give it a shot but there were too many issues.
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Feb 4, 2022 06:11
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I'm still playing it and having fun but yeah there isn't much going on with it right now. I think maps or new enemies or new characters would breathe some life into it again. It's not super buggy anymore, which is nice, floatyness around the Ogre not withstanding. I built a shotgun/damage resistance deck that has finally made pubbies tolerable and I can carry on veteran pretty consistently now. The number of people who still take 5 minutes at the start of every level to carefully consider which attachments to buy still blows my mind. I don't buy much of anything anymore most levels except maybe topping up ammo or health. The idea of spending several minutes and a several hundred copper marginally improve a gun that you might just throw away in five hundred paces kind of makes me antsy and I don't see the point. If you're doing full support or full wizard-grenadier I sort of understand spending the cash, tho. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 11:02
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Mendrian posted:The idea of spending several minutes and a several hundred copper marginally improve a gun that you might just throw away in five hundred paces kind of makes me antsy and I don't see the point. Makes we wonder what the point of the mechanic is.
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Feb 4, 2022 11:46
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Makes we wonder what the point of the mechanic is. The game is literally built around the player making choices. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've stuck with a white weapon because I have good mods on it, and I can't be bothered to start over with a blue one for 5% more range. Also, the B4B Trello says they are working on new levels, and a card to let you remove attachments from the weapons.
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Feb 4, 2022 13:20
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The Hambulance posted:The game is literally built around the player making choices. I can't even begin to count the number of times I've stuck with a white weapon because I have good mods on it, and I can't be bothered to start over with a blue one for 5% more range. This is supporting my point though, why bother having two completely incompatible weapon upgrade systems - mods and weapon quality? Why can't mods be swapped between weapons so when you find a better weapon it's an "oh sweet!" moment rather than having to sit down and do mental math in the middle of a zombie apocalypse about whether or not it's worth it?
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Feb 4, 2022 13:32
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The Hambulance posted:a card to let you remove attachments from the weapons. cant wait to get dogpiled by half a dozen bruisers while the rest of the party dropped their guns so the one with the field strip card can remove the 4x scope from a tec9
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Feb 4, 2022 13:32
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