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Blut posted:Not doing religion is only half the battle, you'd obviously also need to actually be using those saved hours for language education. Shoehead posted:I have to say, spending a few weeks in the Gaeltacht did a whole heap for my comprehension of spoken Irish, but I've also no idea how universal that is because anything was better than my Secondary school's approach to it, which is how I ended up with 7 Irish teachers over my time in the one school. I did the irregular verbs something like 9 times since primary school, so perhaps the Gealtacht helped me out as an almost absolute beginner and would be less useful for people with a higher level of Irish
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Jan 19, 2022 19:06
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I can't honestly believe an oral examiner would fail you for talking circles around them, it's not like the dialects are mutually unintelligible either (no, not even Ulster Gaeilge). Maybe if you're being an arrogant teenage bollocks about it tho? If I was fluent as a teenager I would have been a complete prick in the exams
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Jan 19, 2022 19:28
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Bunch of heathens here, maybe try pray to GOD and He'll make you better at languages! We need more Religion classes and less of that CSPE nonsense!
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Jan 19, 2022 19:32
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Failed Imagineer posted:I can't honestly believe an oral examiner would fail you for talking circles around them, it's not like the dialects are mutually unintelligible either (no, not even Ulster Gaeilge).
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Jan 19, 2022 20:13
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Yeah, was up there over the summer and those lads make even less effort than Kerry farmers to be understandable
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Jan 19, 2022 20:24
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I was sent to Irish college in Donegal and lmao, they speak very very different Irish up there. My super careful, non authentic Dublin gaeilge didn't stand a chance.
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Jan 19, 2022 20:26
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lemonadesweetheart posted:The bigger issue with Gaelige isn't that it's taught in schools as opposed to Spanish, Mandarin or whatever; it's how it's taught. There's no effort at all put into learning it to speak it and until that changes it's completely wasted on kids. We absolutely should be given the opportunity to use it daily even if it's not part of the curriculums. My wife can speak four languages because she grew up speaking four languages and until we have that same kind of infrastructure and method of teaching replacing Irish with French, German or whatever will do gently caress all for multilingualism because the way they teach foreign languages here is just shite. Proficiency levels are generally higher in French/Spanish/German than Irish across the board in Irish students at school leaving, despite only having spent 6 years on them vs 12 years on Irish, and being taught in the same schools, often by the same teachers. The teaching quality of all languages in Ireland is bad, but its not the only reason nobody successfully learns Irish. The fact its a useless in the real world, dead, language that is forced on them means the vast majority of teenagers just don't want to waste time on it. They're much more motivated to focus on Maths, or Economics, or English, or Biology, or whatever else they're interested in and/or that has real world applications. Make it optional and Irish classes will self-select for kids actually interested in the language too, which is half the battle. My school offered Latin for the senior cycle and kids managed to get quite fluent in it despite the short time frame, and limited syllabus, because every kid in the class really wanted to be there so the quality of the learning environment was sky high compared to an Irish class. lemonadesweetheart posted:Gaelscoil teach through Irish, I don't think you're allowed to speak English at all except in English. They are horrendously elitist though and getting your child into them is a struggle. Especially if you don't start from playschool. The ones I know of first hand aren't remotely elitist. One of the consistently top schools in the country for college admissions rates is Colαiste Eoin/Νosagαin which is a fully public gaelscoil, plenty of working class and lower middle class kids attend. Its got a much more socially varied population of students than any comparable schools in the area. The main criteria for admission is a level of proficiency in Irish, which is fairly understandable given all instruction is going to be in that language. And is far less elitist than the monetary requirements for most other good schools.
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Jan 19, 2022 20:31
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I can only speak to my own experience of being taught Irish in primary/secondary. The major issue to me is that it was never taught as a living, spoken language. Immense focus on grammatical structure, zero on conversational ability. People can communicate well in a language they dont fully know grammatically, but the way Irish is and was taught, is to reinforce the idea that only after perfect understanding has been reached, is actual speech possible. Speaking flawed Irish casually was never an option.
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Jan 19, 2022 20:48
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Blut posted:My school offered Latin for the senior cycle
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Jan 19, 2022 21:14
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Arquinsiel posted:I think this may be a hint as to the problem. Accidentally telling on himself.
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Jan 19, 2022 21:26
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Skull Servant posted:Accidentally telling on himself.
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Jan 19, 2022 21:45
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The vast majority of the well ranked (ie, good) boys secondary schools in Ireland have optional (very undersubscribed) latin classes, its not really saying much. Most of the schools on this list would have it: Gaelscoils being a notable currently thread relevant exception. Being privately educated in Ireland isn't the same as in places like the UK where its a preserve of the upper classes, plenty of poorer parents choose to prioritise it and can afford to with our much much lower school fees. Blackrock college etc cost about a tenth as much as Eton.
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Jan 20, 2022 13:42
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I got a full scholarship to CBC Cork, which was handy because we were broke as gently caress, and I did some Latin. I also changed school after JC because the place was absolutely full of people who would sicken your hole
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Jan 20, 2022 13:50
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I love unironically posting a list of even-numbered Dublin postal districts and going "NO LOOK IT'S NOT ELITIST!"
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Jan 20, 2022 14:02
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Blut posted:Being privately educated in Ireland isn't the same as in places like the UK where its a preserve of the upper classes, plenty of poorer parents choose to prioritise it and can afford to with our much much lower school fees. Blackrock college etc cost about a tenth as much as Eton. Eton College boarding fees are £14,698 per term. I can't find the actual fees page on Blackrock College, I guess it's one of those cases if you have to ask the price you're too poor to afford it. But an article from 2019 says it was 19,450 at the time, not sure if that's per term or year, I assume the latter. In any case I think you have a warped view of what the poorer class can afford. It's not like if they prioritize their spending and cut back on fags/booze they could afford 19,450 per year. Also wasn't it Blackrock students beat that lad to death and walked because all the other upper class witnesses closed ranks and refused to talk.
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Jan 20, 2022 14:04
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Arquinsiel posted:I love unironically posting a list of even-numbered Dublin postal districts and going "NO LOOK IT'S NOT ELITIST!" It's not all southside, they have Clontarf on there.
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Jan 20, 2022 14:06
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Marenghi posted:It's not all southside, they have Clontarf on there. 
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Jan 20, 2022 14:10
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Marenghi posted:
Yep, the book "Bad Day At Blackrock" became "What Richard Did"
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Jan 20, 2022 14:15
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Blut posted:The vast majority of the well ranked (ie, good) boys secondary schools in Ireland have optional (very undersubscribed) latin classes, its not really saying much. Most of the schools on this list would have it: No its the preserve of the middle classes in Ireland or of people who can afford to take a swing at upward mobility. You know how important your name and address is to getting into any of those schools? Even ones with public intake? Marenghi posted:
Yeah then they went and made a loving navel gazing movie about how hard your life is after you kill some speccy oval office or whatever. Southpaugh fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 14:20
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Southpaugh posted:Yeah then they went and made a loving navel gazing movie about how hard your life is after you kill some speccy oval office or whatever. It's a great movie, if that's what you got from it I honestly don't know what to say. Lenny Abrahamson is not exactly known for his pro-posho, anti-speccy oval office filmography
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Jan 20, 2022 14:26
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Southpaugh posted:Yeah then they went and made a loving navel gazing movie about how hard your life is after you kill some speccy oval office or whatever.
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Jan 20, 2022 14:27
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Failed Imagineer posted:It's a great movie, if that's what you got from it I honestly don't know what to say. Lenny Abrahamson is not exactly known for his pro-posho, anti-speccy oval office filmography I'm making fun of the serious, sensitive, effort intensive rehabilitation of a posh oval office. I saw the movie, its very competently done but its still an upper middle class propaganda piece and wouldn't have gotten made if "Richard" hadn't been a rich kid. Arquinsiel posted:With a Belvo Boy in the lead role an' all... He came into the shop I was working in once, wanted an xbox game but didn't have the cash on him so the mot pulled out the 60 blips and sure wasn't it yer wan from the horse outside video.
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Jan 20, 2022 14:46
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Southpaugh posted:I'm making fun of the serious, sensitive, effort intensive rehabilitation of a posh oval office. I saw the movie, its very competently done but its still an upper middle class propaganda piece and wouldn't have gotten made if "Richard" hadn't been a rich kid. It got made because it was a national cause celèbre and thus a best-selling book, and presented an interesting angle to look at "affluenza". I honestly think you've got the intent entirely backwards, but it's not meant to be a didactic film. To be transparent I'm totally biased here because I know both the director and screenwriter, and I can guarantee you the goal was not middle-class propaganda, and they'd probably be bummed to hear that. I can't argue with how you responded to it or if you felt it didn't give due to its leftist credentials, that's just the risk you take when you make something I guess. For me, I see Prosperity, Adam&Paul, and What Richard Did all existing in conversation with each other. Also, Jack Reynor did indeed get married to the mot from the Horse Outside video, that 60 quid was an investment
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Jan 20, 2022 15:00
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Apparently he's alright as they go and used to be the school dealer while he was there, according to my brother's friends, but the perfection of it all is just 
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Jan 20, 2022 15:57
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Failed Imagineer posted:It got made because it was a national cause celèbre and thus a best-selling book, and presented an interesting angle to look at "affluenza". I am being uncharitable in the extreme. I do appreciate abrahamsons efforts, god knows theres few enough loving movies getting made here. Ultimately I'm unwilling to empathise with the principal cast of comfortable middle class people and how devastated they are. At the end of the film life just goes on, closing shot in one of the concrete corridors in Trinity. If the film had been about different people in different circumstances richard wouldn't have walked away with a slap on the wrist.
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Jan 20, 2022 16:47
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Sounds like that was the point. The real life killers also got to just walk away and have their life go on as usual. Never seen the movie myself, but I can't see how you can't cover that particular event without it ending the same way, as a damning indictment of how the connected class can get away with literal murder.
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Jan 20, 2022 16:52
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Yeah I think that's it really - ironically I reckon having the goys face actual justice at the end would be the real middle-class apologia, implying something like a just world. Instead you're left with the grim reality that some lad is dead and the only justice is a couple of the Rock legends feeling bad about it. It's definitely a hard watch for that exact reason and I can see people just being really pissed off or not wanting to have anything to do with it. Still, nothing on the emotional devastation of Garage, I felt like walking into the sea for about a week after that. And IIRC that lovely concrete corridor was actually my beloved alma mater UCD, where Brutalist designs go to die Failed Imagineer fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 17:06
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Arquinsiel posted:I love unironically posting a list of even-numbered Dublin postal districts and going "NO LOOK IT'S NOT ELITIST!" Thats a list of the top 40 secondary schools in the country by college admission rate, ie academics, in order... 22 of which, ie the majority, aren't in even numbered Dublin postal districts. Southpaugh posted:No its the preserve of the middle classes in Ireland or of people who can afford to take a swing at upward mobility. You know how important your name and address is to getting into any of those schools? Even ones with public intake? Have you ever applied to any of these schools? Entrance is based on academic entrance exams, sporting prowess and/or being related to a past or current pupil. Your address doesn't come into it in any shape or form. You don't have to be the son of a TD. It doesn't matter if you live in Tallaght or Donnybrook. Marenghi posted:Eton College boarding fees are £14,698 per term. I can't find the actual fees page on Blackrock College, I guess it's one of those cases if you have to ask the price you're too poor to afford it. Eton charges up to £48,501 per year (£14,698 per term, with three terms per academic year, for 2022). - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_College [Blackrock College] The annual fees for students in 2011 were 6,300 for day boys - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackrock_College -- thats gone up slightly since but most of their peer group are at around 7000 currently so Blackrock is likely similar. Thats an order of magnitude in difference. Irish fee paying schools absolutely have some of the elite in them, but the vast majority of the student body in them is made up of people whos parents very much aren't part of the elite. At least half of my year in school had parents who were teachers, nurses, gardai etc. Plenty of very poor kids were there on scholarships (a couple of the starting senior cup rugby team were brought up in council flats), but plenty of others just had parents who scrimped and saved and paid the fees because they valued the education of their kids. Blut fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 17:41
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Blut posted:the vast majority of the student body in them is made up of people whos parents very much aren't part of the elite. At least half of my year in school had parents who were teachers, nurses, gardai etc.
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Jan 20, 2022 17:49
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Why are you comparing boarding fees with day fees. Eton doesn't do day fees so I compared them to the boarding fees of Blackrock. Why are you comparing apples to oranges when the info is all there in your post. £48,501(57,280) vs 19,450 so it's just under 3 times as much. Hardly the orders of magnitude you were claiming. quote:Plenty of very poor kids were there on academic scholarships (a couple of the starting senior cup rugby team were brought up in council flats) https://www.blackrockcollege.com/development/access-blackrock It says they take 3 per year for a full first to sixth class scholarship, of a college that takes in about 200 per year. That's a tiny minority. They allow a token amount of council kids in to look good and help their sports team. quote:but plenty of others just had parents who scrimped and saved and paid the fees because they valued the education of their kids. quote:and/or being related to a past or current pupil quote:Thats a list of the top 40 secondary schools in the country by college admission rate, ie academics, in order... 22 of which, ie the majority, aren't in even numbered Dublin postal districts. 23 are south dublin, 24 if you count Bray, which I knew some posh lads from their would consider themselves of the same cloth as south dublin types. Marenghi fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 17:54
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Blut posted:
If you scroll up a bit you can see I posted about being one of those poor scholarship kids, who left CBC because of the elitism. They are massively elitist institutions. My anecdote fights your anecdote. The headmaster when I left told me bitterly that going to the local national school was "like going from Manchester Utd to Ackrington Stanley" which made me lol even at the time. He was bitter because I was meant to be one of the 8 A1s Leaving Cert boys who makes the news. Jokes on him because I went to the crappy school, got a much better education, did pretty mediocre in my Leaving and then got a PhD. Moral of the story: it's a much more impressive educational feat to get some council-estate kids to sit the Leaving, than to get some little Donnchadhs and Fiachras 600 points
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Jan 20, 2022 17:54
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Blut posted:Thats a list of the top 40 secondary schools in the country by college admission rate, ie academics, in order... 22 of which, ie the majority, aren't in even numbered Dublin postal districts. Oh sweetie oh pudding oh darling. I don't know where to begin. You know "meritocracy" doesn't exist right? That all these things here you've listed are tacit reinforcement of class hierarchy? That its the children of respectable lower middle class workers who are allowed to take the shot at making it into the actual working bourgeois? I can't blame you, no one has ever written any of this down before. Arquinsiel posted:This may be the funniest thing you will ever post. Just lol. Failed Imagineer posted:Yeah I think that's it really - ironically I reckon having the goys face actual justice at the end would be the real middle-class apologia, implying something like a just world. Instead you're left with the grim reality that some lad is dead and the only justice is a couple of the Rock legends feeling bad about it. I appreciate that the whole thing is a bitter pill. You're supposed to gag on it. Southpaugh fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 18:00
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Marenghi posted:23 are south dublin, 24 if you count Bray, which I knew some posh lads from their would consider themselves of the same cloth as south dublin types. Failed Imagineer posted:"like going from Manchester Utd to Ackrington Stanley"
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Jan 20, 2022 18:09
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Arquinsiel posted:Is this how the Irish gaming convention pub quiz tradition of guessing "Ackrington Stanley" for any question you don't know the answer to started? It actually got me points in the Gaelcon 2020 online quiz which was pretty hilarious. I think it comes from an 80s/90s iconic ad for milk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pieK7b4KLL4 Other acceptable trivia answers are : - Atari Jaguar - the Defenestration of Prague - Longford Failed Imagineer fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 18:34
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Noted for next year's pub quiz. Or maybe the Warpcon one next month, since that's online too.
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Jan 20, 2022 18:55
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PowerBeard posted:Bunch of heathens here, maybe try pray to GOD and He'll make you better at languages! We need more Religion classes and less of that CSPE nonsense! CSPE was almost inevitably taught by the god bothering religion teacher in my school, exactly because they were useless god botherers who only got a degree in bullshit because they wanted to teach Catholicism but even the Catholic church wouldn't have them because they were the most ignorant fuckers going.
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Jan 21, 2022 01:12
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Our CSPE teacher was absolutely loving deranged, she was one of the 3 teachers left from when the school opened in the 70s and at this point I think just wanted a room full of kids to be mad at in 40 minute chunks. We'd open a book in class every few weeks or so and the rest of the time she'd be missing or stuck giving out about something. It was like a doss class almost but if instead of messing you just had to watch an old lady have a crisis instead. In RE I was always picked to read because I hated it and would read from the book as loudly and as fast as possible because neither the rest of the class, nor the teacher could have given a soggy shite about RE. We watched like 80% of Alive in that class for some reason. I think that might have also been the class we watched The Green Mile in too. If it was a movie about Death Row my school had it on VHS
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Jan 21, 2022 09:28
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Marenghi posted:Why are you comparing boarding fees with day fees. Eton doesn't do day fees so I compared them to the boarding fees of Blackrock. I quoted the minimum fees to attend Eton vs the minimum fees to attend Blackrock, which is what poorer parents would be looking at. The vast majority of students in Blackrock college also aren't boarders, whereas all are in Eton - so its comparing the most likely form of attendance. I didn't attend Blackrock college, so I can't comment first hand on the % of academic scholarships they have. But you're quoting the number of full ride, 12 year scholarships which are obviously going to be very rare. Most private schools offer partial scholarships, scholarships for only the leaving cert cycle etc, in far greater numbers. Sports scholarships are also additional, on top of this. 150 a week for full fees for 2-5 years obviously isn't no money, but its absolutely affordable for two working parents if they make sacrifices. Particularly if they save towards it in advance, and take loans they can repay afterwards, so the hit can be spread out over more time. You can bring it down to 50 a week for that time period that way. And just flat out lol if you think Bray is posh in any way Failed Imagineer posted:If you scroll up a bit you can see I posted about being one of those poor scholarship kids, who left CBC because of the elitism. They are massively elitist institutions. My anecdote fights your anecdote. Statistically he probably wasn't wrong as far as leaving cert results go, unless you went to a gaelscoil instead anyway. What exact elitism forced you to leave CBC? Arquinsiel posted:This may be the funniest thing you will ever post. If you think a nurse or primary school teacher is part of the "elite" of society I don't know what to tell you. Southpaugh posted:Oh sweetie oh pudding oh darling. I don't know where to begin. You know "meritocracy" doesn't exist right? That all these things here you've listed are tacit reinforcement of class hierarchy? That its the children of respectable lower middle class workers who are allowed to take the shot at making it into the actual working bourgeois? I can't blame you, no one has ever written any of this down before. I had poor parents. When they arrived in Ireland they couldn't speak English, had no money and had no "elitist connections". And they were a skin colour that many people in this thread say Ireland is institutionally racist against. Somehow they managed to afford to send me and my siblings to private schools by working hard, raising us well enough to pass the entrance exams, and by making plenty of personal sacrifices. And somehow we all got into good colleges and now have well paid white collar jobs now by working hard. Seems extremely meritocratic to me. Blaming society for your own life failures is a mental crutch, you were born into and live in one of the richest, easiest to advance in countries in the world, with one of the best social safety nets and education systems. You were born with more advantages than 99% of the population of Earth. If you're bitter about your life outcome you only have yourself to blame. Blut fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Jan 21, 2022 |
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Jan 21, 2022 12:58
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Blut can you clue us in on this rags to riches story with the details on how they went from immigrants with no money to sending you and your siblings to private school. I want to learn how to work hard enough to be able to do it for my kids thanks in advance. I had thought it was pretty much impossible to get into the country with no money. How did they even afford the plane tickets. You know people who say annecdote fallacy is a thing just haven't met you.
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Jan 21, 2022 13:34
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quote:I quoted the minimum fees to attend Eton vs the minimum fees to attend Blackrock, which is what poorer parents would be looking at. The vast majority of students in Blackrock college also aren't boarders, whereas all are in Eton - so its comparing the most likely form of attendance. That's absolute nonsense. You are the one who originally picked Eton and claimed it was ten times more expensive than private schools in Ireland. Pick a school in the Uk that does day rates then and compare them. Instead of being disingenuous and comparing two different modes of attendence. Of course day rates are going to be cheaper than full boarding, you could do the same comparision between 2 UK schools and get the same tortured conclusion. quote:150 a week for full fees for 2-5 years obviously isn't no money, but its absolutely affordable for two working parents if they make sacrifices. I know plenty of working parents and they wouldn't have 150 week to spend on private schooling. I was a full time engineer earning above the average wage with a stay at home wife. And even I didn't have that much aside each week after rent, insurance and everything else. Even if the wife went back to work the cost of childcare would have made it net 0 change. quote:Blaming society for your own life failures is a mental crutch, you were born into and live in one of the richest, easiest to advance in countries in the world, with one of the best social safety nets and education systems. You were born with more advantages than 99% of the population of Earth. If you're bitter about your life outcome you only have yourself to blame. You are obviously a troll, or have lived a very sheltered upper middle class life.
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Jan 21, 2022 13:36
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