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Arc Hammer posted:He should have gone "ooooh snap" and started pissing himself laughing at Fëanor getting upstaged by a Dwarf. he should have gotten real pissy that gimli didn't want his hair
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Jan 10, 2022 09:41
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ChubbyChecker posted:he should have gotten real pissy that gimli didn't want his hair Maybe he did. As collected in the volume "Unwanted Tales: Scenes That Christopher Read And Dropped Immediately In The Fireplace"
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Jan 10, 2022 11:46
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Jan 10, 2022 17:23
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Would be the same joke but funnier without the "you're such a bitch" imho
Imagined fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jan 10, 2022 |
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Jan 10, 2022 17:32
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It's me, I'm that pedant.
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Jan 10, 2022 17:37
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Does Gandalf count as divine intervention? Or, because he became "mundane-ish", is it something different?
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Jan 10, 2022 19:39
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SHISHKABOB posted:Does Gandalf count as divine intervention? Or, because he became "mundane-ish", is it something different? Grey not really, White yeah.
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Jan 10, 2022 20:41
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euphronius readying up a scorching take right now
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Jan 10, 2022 20:57
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Teriyaki Hairpiece posted:My new criticism about the movies: when Gimli tells Legolas that Galadriel gave him three hairs, Legolas should've shitted himself and then ran off to Bree to start a new life I'm reminded of the tale of when Harald Hardrade met Empress Zoe. According to the tale Zoe was infatuated by Harald that she asked for a lock of his hair. Harald's answer was "sure, if I can get some of your pubes".
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Jan 10, 2022 21:02
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Alhazred posted:I'm reminded of the tale of when Harald Hardrade met Empress Zoe. According to the tale Zoe was infatuated by Harald that she asked for a lock of his hair. Harald's answer was "sure, if I can get some of your pubes". Please use spoiler tags when discussing plot points from the Amazon LOTR show.
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Jan 10, 2022 21:47
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Characters who reincarnate in Middle Earth get a peak at Eru's strategy guide before they respawn.
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Jan 10, 2022 21:54
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Alhazred posted:I'm reminded of the tale of when Harald Hardrade met Empress Zoe. According to the tale Zoe was infatuated by Harald that she asked for a lock of his hair. Harald's answer was "sure, if I can get some of your pubes". My favourite norse-byzantine interaction is the Piraeus Lion. It’s a nice statue with viking rune graffiti on it, noting that the byzantines refused to let them make the graffiti but they were gonna do it anyway. Recursive graffiti? Asmund cut these runes with Asgeir and Thorleif, Thord and Ivar, at the request of Harold the Tall, though the Greeks considered about and forbade it.
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Jan 10, 2022 22:03
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SHISHKABOB posted:Does Gandalf count as divine intervention? Or, because he became "mundane-ish", is it something different? It's definitely divine intervention to send an angel to help people, and doubly so to send the same angel again.
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Jan 11, 2022 02:43
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SHISHKABOB posted:Does Gandalf count as divine intervention? Or, because he became "mundane-ish", is it something different? imo gandalf doesnt work as a character if he isnt a real autonomous being who can make mistakes and has to have faith in, rather than foreknowledge of, the outcome of god's plan, so sending him isnt really intervention in the same sense as killing sauron with lightning. he was also not sent directly by god but by the valar
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Jan 11, 2022 03:03
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Shibawanko posted:imo gandalf doesnt work as a character if he isnt a real autonomous being who can make mistakes and has to have faith in, rather than foreknowledge of, the outcome of god's plan, so sending him isnt really intervention in the same sense as killing sauron with lightning. he was also not sent directly by god but by the valar He was sent originally by the Valar, but he was sent back by God in person. The Valar don’t have the power to remake Gandalf into Saruman the way Gandalf is remade. this is what “out of thought and time” is about, he’s not talking about hauling his spirit back to Valinor.
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Jan 11, 2022 03:22
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some examples of Divine intervention are Bilbo picking up the ring, all the members of the company getting to Rivendell at relatively the same time, Faramir's prophetic dream, Gandalf being sent back, Merry and Pippen being brought to Treebeard, and Gollum slipping and falling into Mount Doom. Basically, the quest only succeeded because everyone had faith it would, and gave 100% to see it through. Even characters with foresight like Galadriel couldn't see how they were going to win, but they had to trust. "The Quest stands upon the edge of a knife. Stray but a little, and it will fail, to the ruin of all. Yet hope remains while the Company is true." A Moose fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jan 11, 2022 |
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Jan 11, 2022 21:31
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The eagles you can’t forget the eagles !!
euphronius fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jan 11, 2022 |
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Jan 11, 2022 23:01
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Also Bombadil showing up to rescue them from Old Man Willow by chance, if chance you call it* *Variations of which phrase are how Tolkien himself tends to lampshade divine intervention
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Jan 12, 2022 00:21
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Alhazred posted:I'm reminded of the tale of when Harald Hardrade met Empress Zoe. According to the tale Zoe was infatuated by Harald that she asked for a lock of his hair. Harald's answer was "sure, if I can get some of your pubes". I just wish I had the gall to come back from my trip abroad and tell everyone I conquered Jerusalem. Like yeah, no big deal.
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Jan 12, 2022 07:54
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mossyfisk posted:I just wish I had the gall to come back from my trip abroad and tell everyone I conquered Jerusalem. Like yeah, no big deal. Well what are they gonna do, go check? This is why all the respectable people started turning up their noses at Bilbo. lol robbed a dragon ok, sure thing buddy
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Jan 12, 2022 13:13
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Welp, here we go I guess https://twitter.com/JeffBezos/status/1483816597831630852?s=20
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Jan 19, 2022 20:17
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I have to admit, I'm willing to be open-minded about it if the music seems to want to take inspiration from Johan de Meij https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkOWvcFsciY
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Jan 19, 2022 20:27
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I don’t think Tolkien ever considered the Valar intervening in Middle Earth as “divine.” So sending over the Istari and Glorfindel (for some weird reason?) to help doesn’t count. I haven’t read his collection of letters though so maybe I’m wrong. But clear examples of “divine intervention” in the most literal sense are obviously Eru himself resurrecting Gandalf and also causing Golem to trip and fall into the Crack of Doom.
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Jan 19, 2022 20:46
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In his really early versions didn't he call the Valar gods? Then I guess he changed it when he decided he was far too Catholic to for that?
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Jan 19, 2022 20:56
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Tolkien never stopped thinking of the Valar as gods (with a small g). When Theoden goes into battle at the Pelennor he’s likened to “a god of old”, Orome to be specific.
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Jan 19, 2022 21:47
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Data Graham posted:Welp, here we go I guess i hate trailers that don't show anything of the actual thing advertised. this is just a logo animation
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Jan 20, 2022 08:42
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Shibawanko posted:i hate trailers that don't show anything of the actual thing advertised. this is just a logo animation At least it’s apparently all done with practical effects 
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Jan 20, 2022 13:59
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I mean it's literally just a title reveal. That's how it's billed in the Prime app, "title reveal" lol But it also gives us a couple of clues as to things like tone and style, what the music will be like, and how they lean into pronunciations like "morrrdorrr". Also the Prime app description says "Middle-earth" instead of "Middle Earth" so I take that as encouraging. One other weird observation — when the voice reads the first line of the poem, "Three RINGS for the Elven KINGS", I had literally never noticed the rhyme there before, and I don't think even Corey Olsen picked it out. Seems ridiculously obvious now though (even if it never has any echoes in the rest of the poem)
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Jan 20, 2022 14:33
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Shibawanko posted:imo gandalf doesnt work as a character if he isnt a real autonomous being who can make mistakes and has to have faith in, rather than foreknowledge of, the outcome of god's plan, so sending him isnt really intervention in the same sense as killing sauron with lightning. he was also not sent directly by god but by the valar Shimrra Jamaane posted:I don’t think Tolkien ever considered the Valar intervening in Middle Earth as “divine.” So sending over the Istari and Glorfindel (for some weird reason?) to help doesn’t count. I haven’t read his collection of letters though so maybe I’m wrong. But clear examples of “divine intervention” in the most literal sense are obviously Eru himself resurrecting Gandalf and also causing Golem to trip and fall into the Crack of Doom. I think ultimately it depends on how strict your definition of "divine intervention" is. I tend to think of the Valar as lower-g gods like the Greek Pantheon, in which the gods are fallible and can make mistakes, but they are still considered divine and definitely intervene in mortal affairs. Eru on the other hand is similar to the Christian God who doesn't make mistakes and everything unfolds according to his plan. The Valar sending the Istari can be considered divine intervention if you allow that such interventions can fail or have uncertain consequences: I believe Tolkien notes somewhere, I think the Unfinished Tales, that all the Istari other than Gandalf failed at their mission because they were distracted by mundane and material temptations. Even Gandalf the White was somewhat tempted by the Orthanc stone before Pippin used it, so he wasn't infallible, and Eru's intervention was limited to resurrecting him with no guarantee of final victory.
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Jan 20, 2022 14:39
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I've only read the complete Sil once but I've never forgotten this passage: Then Ilúvatar spoke, and he said: 'Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Ilúvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done. And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.' (my emphasis) Eru was never "not" intervening. That was Sauron's major delusion. This is Tolkien himself talking about Morgoth and Sauron's characters and the nature of their evil: Sauron could not, of course, be a "sincere" atheist. Though one of the minor spirits created before the world, he knew Eru, according to his measure. He probably deluded himself with the notion that the Valar (including Melkor) having failed, Eru had simply abandoned Eä, or at any rate Arda, and would not concern himself with it any more. It would appear that he interpreted the "change of the world" at the Downfall of Númenor, when Aman was removed from the physical world, in this sense: Valar (and Elves) were removed from effective control, and Men under God's curse and wrath. If he thought about the Istari, especially Saruman and Gandalf, he imagined them as emissaries from the Valar, seeking to establish their lost power again and "colonize" Middle-earth, as a mere effort of defeated imperialists (without knowledge or sanction of Eru). His cynicism, which (sincerely) regarded the motives of Manwë as precisely the same as his own, seemed fully justified in Saruman. Gandalf he did not understand. But certainly he had already become evil, and therefore stupid, enough to imagine that his different behaviour was due simply to weaker intelligence and lack of firm masterful purpose. He was only a rather cleverer Radagast — cleverer, because it is more profitable (more productive of power) to become absorbed in the study of people rather than of animals. EDIT: I'm gonna ramble for a minute if you don't mind. This came to my mind when reflecting on Tolkien's comments on Sauron. In a lot of fiction, good vs. evil is a purely emotive choice. "Come to the dark side because we have cookies!" vs. "But you made those cookies out of babies and that's bad." Tolkien calls Sauron "stupid" because he's evil. Evil is inherently dumb or if you prefer irrational. I don't think a lot of people believe that. They believe evil can be a rational choice but it's to be rejected on the grounds of my feelings say it's wrong I'm not complaining about this. I think it's a natural response to thinking the world is meaningless. A Theist like Tolkien thinks the world is rational and ordered because of God and thus good is of course the smart choice. But it just strikes me as good vs evil arguments in fiction really do come down to these feelings more than "evil is dumb." Evil could make all the sense in the world but my conscience says no. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 15:10
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Data Graham posted:Welp, here we go I guess Data Graham posted:I have to admit, I'm willing to be open-minded about it Yeah this is where I am also Ultimately this is Bezos dump trucking money into making literally one of Tolkien's dreams real (his nightmare of a giant wave rising up over all the land, which turned into Akallabeth). I think it's a little chickenshit to not just title it "Akallabeth" in runic script and let the haters deal, but, gently caress it, if they manage to hire some decent writers and do like a "Fall of Rome" style epic soap opera out of it all, gently caress it, let's ride. I hope it's a good ride.
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Jan 20, 2022 15:41
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If we're doing that I sure hope we get to see the visual of the ships of the Exiles washing up on the interior of Ireland on the crest of a huge tsunami, with the guys on the ships all clinging to the railings going AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH
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Jan 20, 2022 15:44
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NikkolasKing posted:EDIT: I did keep thinking about the Spaceballs quote "evil will always triumph because good is dumb" while I read that Tolkien passage. And it's not me being flip, it's a throwaway line in a comedy because we as a culture have come to believe inherently that it's true, that's why we can laugh ruefully at the concept. It's not even trying to be profound, it's just shitposting and in some ways is that not the truest posting of all  .But I think you're right in that the "good is dumb" trope is a truism of fiction, not reality. We know that in reality evil is a lot more correlated with stupidity than with intelligence; good is about self-sacrifice and long-term planning and generally being motivated by uplifting other people at your own expense, whereas evil is about being self-serving and short-term profiteering and about controlling others to suit your own whims, all hallmarks of shortsightedness and stupidity. Fictional evil is superintelligent because it's about masterminds with 10-step world-dominating schemes which are the only thing that can defeat a world set up to defend against them, it's seldom about evil in the banality sense. Probably because in fiction you want a heroic way to beat that evil, preferably with a cool sword.
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Jan 20, 2022 15:50
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Data Graham posted:If we're doing that I sure hope we get to see the visual of the ships of the Exiles washing up on the interior of Ireland on the crest of a huge tsunami, with the guys on the ships all clinging to the railings going AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH I've never imagined the Noldor in Longford before but thanks for the mental image.
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Jan 20, 2022 16:36
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Data Graham posted:If we're doing that I sure hope we get to see the visual of the ships of the Exiles washing up on the interior of Ireland on the crest of a huge tsunami, with the guys on the ships all clinging to the railings going AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH With this budget it better be a practical effect.
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Jan 20, 2022 20:16
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im hopeful it will good, but it is only a fool's hope
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Jan 20, 2022 20:38
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One of the best shows I watched in 2021 was based on League of loving Legends so anything is possible
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Jan 20, 2022 20:42
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WoodrowSkillson posted:im hopeful it will good, but it is only a fool's hope
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Jan 21, 2022 08:04
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Sauron performing human sacrifices in Númenor or bust.
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Jan 21, 2022 15:48
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Please don’t make Sauron too sexy. Please resist this impulse.
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Jan 21, 2022 16:53
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