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dissss posted:I know quite a few Model 3 owners and they fall into one of two categories If I had a bit more money, I'd maybe buy a model 3 because it's a good decent quality car. That's all there is to it. I think Musk - as an engineer - is freaking genius - and he made electric cars normal. And made a ton of them. And delivered. The BMW i3 seemed to be good but it was just so weird? The leaf while practical wasn't there yet...
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Jan 20, 2022 06:04
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Indiana_Krom posted:You can make a brushed PM motor, being induction or PM is irrelevant to being brushed or brushless. Wait a minute, that's not true at all, an induction motor is one that, by definition, has current flow in the rotor induced by the action of the magnetic field rotating around it in the stator, due to the properties of alternating current. Permanent Magnet induction motors just use permanent magnets to give induction motors the desirable properties of a synchronous motor without brushes (i.e. no slip between rotor speed and the rotational speed of the magnetic field in the stator, able to act as a generator, and better efficiency). The BMW motor is explicitly a synchronous motor, which relies on a magnetic field created in the rotor by direct electrical action via brushes, i.e. not an induction motor by definition and classification. E: Crosby B. Alfred posted:If I had a bit more money, I'd maybe buy a model 3 because it's a good decent quality car. That's all there is to it. I think Musk - as an engineer - is freaking genius - and he made electric cars normal. And made a ton of them. And delivered. Elon Musk is a businessman, not an engineer He may well be a visionary, but he hasn't done a lick of the engineering work to make Tesla or SpaceX successful, and calling him an "engineer... genius" smacks of the weird cult of personality poo poo that surrounds him, and sells short the actual teams of engineers that have made those two companies successful. Elviscat fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 06:05
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Elviscat posted:Elon Musk is a businessman, not an engineer He may well be a visionary, but he hasn't done a lick of the engineering work to make Tesla or SpaceX successful, and calling him an "engineer... genius" smacks of the weird cult of personality poo poo that surrounds him, and sells short the actual teams of engineers that have made those two companies successful. Is emptyquoting frowned upon in AI? Anyway, I couldn't agree more.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:11
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I was understanding that he was an engineer? If he's not, then how the hell did he get so lucky with Tesla?
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Jan 20, 2022 06:17
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Elviscat posted:Wait a minute, that's not true at all, an induction motor is one that, by definition, has current flow in the rotor induced by the action of the magnetic field rotating around it in the stator, due to the properties of alternating current. Permanent Magnet induction motors just use permanent magnets to give induction motors the desirable properties of a synchronous motor without brushes (i.e. no slip between rotor speed and the rotational speed of the magnetic field in the stator, able to act as a generator, and better efficiency). The BMW motor is explicitly a synchronous motor, which relies on a magnetic field created in the rotor by direct electrical action via brushes, i.e. not an induction motor by definition and classification. I’m still learning about this stuff and from what I’ve read the reason BMW uses brushes is because it allows more precise control of rotor excitation so they can produce more starting torque than a conventional brushless AC motor and a broader torque curve. It makes intuitive sense to me but I’m wondering what you and others here think about it. For all their flaws I don’t think BMWs engineers are simply stupid so there has to be some trade off that made them go with a brushed design.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:24
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cruft posted:3. former helicopter pilots who, due to an unfortunate ear infection, are no longer allowed to fly. These people traded their helicopter in for a dual drive Model 3 with white interior, then had it painted purple and added fluorescent blue pinstriping and for some reason bolted a Sears X-Cargo roof storage container to the panoramic roof. Ok fine you got me. I have strongly considered an iridescent purple wrap
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Jan 20, 2022 06:37
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I was understanding that he was an engineer? If he's not, then how the hell did he get so lucky with Tesla? He used his PayPal buyout money to invest in Tesla and eventually leveraged that into the CEO position which he’s used to drive product strategy. He has always been either an untitled investor or an executive, never an engineer. He does not have an engineering degree and his few patents related to Tesla are all design patents except for one that is a very generic description of smart summon.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:37
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So basically a clever rich dude, in the right place and right time.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:40
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:I was understanding that he was an engineer? If he's not, then how the hell did he get so lucky with Tesla? He's an astute business person, he has a knack for investing in companies like PayPal and Tesla, both were solid companies before he came in. He's from a wealthy family, he has engineers and people to advise him on the companies he acquires and the soundness of the products they create. E: TL;DR Crosby B. Alfred posted:So basically a clever rich dude, in the right place and right time. YOLOsubmarine posted:I’m still learning about this stuff and from what I’ve read the reason BMW uses brushes is because it allows more precise control of rotor excitation so they can produce more starting torque than a conventional brushless AC motor and a broader torque curve. It makes intuitive sense to me but I’m wondering what you and others here think about it. How you excite you rotor generally defines what sort of motor you're making. Since BMW won't say how long the brushes last, let's say they last 10k miles. That's not any worse than an oil change, so it's definitely doable. If it's not clear from the article, the advantage is that a brushed synchronous motor can give you 100% of the advantages of a PM induction motor, without the cost in rare earth metals, which are typically mined under very bad environmental and humanitarian conditions in 3rd world countries, that's the benefit. The downside I see, as someone who has a lot of experience with brushed motors, is that brushed motors have a gently caress ton of downsides besides just periodic brush replacements. For example, we have to replace or "stone" (abraid back to spec) sliprings on synchronous AC motors on a pretty frequent basis, that's on an industrial AC motor/generator that runs 24/7 so it might not be comparable. I'd just say "yeah, BMW engineers are super smart and know more than me" but this is the company that hosed up charging 12V batteries so bad that they turned battery replacements into an annual affair, in search of better fuel economy.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:44
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:So basically a clever rich dude, in the right place and right time. Musk is a douchebag supreme but he went all in on EVs and regardless of his motives or his lovely personality, he made Tesla a household name and accelerated the adoption of EVs, especially in the US, by a lot. But yeah, he's not an engineer and never will be, despite his decades-long attempt to create that persona.
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Jan 20, 2022 07:06
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:So basically a clever rich dude, in the right place and right time. Yes. But without the clever bit, which you have to hear him talk to appreciate https://mobile.twitter.com/ketanj0/status/1361425803246903297
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Jan 20, 2022 07:40
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Enough with the Muskchat please. Ty.
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Jan 20, 2022 08:10
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:Enough with the Muskrat please. Ty. https://youtu.be/xBYV_7a0FQs (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 20, 2022 08:18
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:If I had a bit more money, I'd maybe buy a model 3 because it's a good decent quality car. That's all there is to it. I think Musk - as an engineer - is freaking genius - and he made electric cars normal. And made a ton of them. And delivered. The Gen 2 LEAF is an excellent budget EV in 2022, but good luck convincing EV folks to give it another chance. It has to wear the scars of the Gen 1 battery woes.
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Jan 20, 2022 08:35
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Kirios posted:The Gen 2 LEAF is an excellent budget EV in 2022, but good luck convincing EV folks to give it another chance. It has to wear the scars of the Gen 1 battery woes. It still does not have battery cooling. It still overheats on long trip fast charging, reducing charging speed on the second and subsequent charging sessions. Sure, it'll last longer on a single charge, and that may have alleviated what made me sell my first generation Leaf... But the moment I learned that it did not have active battery cooling, I discarded it as a potential purchase. And it still uses chademo. That alone would make it a terrible decision for anyone that wants to make journeys that require fast charging in 2022.
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Jan 20, 2022 10:38
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That's about where I stood as well. LEAF was one of my top choices, when I was car shopping several years ago. I specifically held off until gen2 was announced. When they said the battery was still going to be air-cooled and still use chademo I was like, huhhhhhhh?? Not fond of the idea of an air cooled lithium battery in scorching southern August weather.
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Jan 20, 2022 11:28
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Elviscat posted:PM induction motor I hate to break it to you but "PM induction motor" is a non sequitur. Induction motors do not have permanent magnets in them, both the rotor and the stator use electromagnets hence the designation. Where as a PM motor is just that, either the rotor or stator has permanent magnets in it instead.
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Jan 20, 2022 13:05
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knox_harrington posted:https://newsroom.porsche.com/en/2022/products/porsche-taycan-sport-turismo-premiere-27075.html noooo
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Jan 20, 2022 13:19
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Elviscat posted:I'd just say "yeah, BMW engineers are super smart and know more than me" but this is the company that hosed up charging 12V batteries so bad that they turned battery replacements into an annual affair, in search of better fuel economy. to the company this is kind of a feature
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Jan 20, 2022 13:21
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Elviscat posted:I'd just say "yeah, BMW engineers are super smart and know more than me" but this is the company that hosed up charging 12V batteries so bad that they turned battery replacements into an annual affair, in search of better fuel economy. Don't forget that you can't just replace the battery with another equivalent one like you can in almost every other car or battery powered thing ever made since the dawn of time. There's some pairing process that has to be done through the car's computer. The engineers responsible for that system deserve a hell that is perpetually replacing the battery on a Chrysler Sebring on the shoulder of a slush covered highway.
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Jan 20, 2022 16:22
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wolrah posted:Don't forget that you can't just replace the battery with another equivalent one like you can in almost every other car or battery powered thing ever made since the dawn of time. There's some pairing process that has to be done through the car's computer.
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Jan 20, 2022 16:41
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wolrah posted:Don't forget that you can't just replace the battery with another equivalent one like you can in almost every other car or battery powered thing ever made since the dawn of time. There's some pairing process that has to be done through the car's computer. I can only assume it has to be some sort of special battery like a Lithium one or something? Or is it just really "gently caress you , we are BMW"?
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Jan 20, 2022 16:50
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stevewm posted:I can only assume it has to be some sort of special battery like a Lithium one or something? Or is it just really "gently caress you , we are BMW"? Apparently at some point BMW decided that the way we've charged batteries in cars for the last 50 years just isn't acceptable anymore, so they developed a system that you tell the type and capacity of battery and it adapts the power curve to supposedly help more effectively charge as the battery ages. Sounds like it makes sense, right? Except somehow this magical system can't tell when the battery has been replaced so if not reset it will overcharge the new one. Or if you change to a different style or size of battery. And of course this is not something you can just do through the car's menu system, it has to be done by a dealer or using unofficial third party tools. https://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1338304
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Jan 20, 2022 17:20
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Hawkperson posted:Lol I just don’t know how. Maybe when I get my sparkle owl wrap I’ll get it done. Why are you so mean to me Depends on if the paint has faded any, really. Otherwise, no, if done properly. 3M and other companies make a host of sticker, decal, and adhesive removers specifically targeted for removing emblems, stripes, and other stick-on car stuff stuff. De-embleming is definitely a thing, but also a necessary step for repainting (unless you're a hack <cough>Maaco<cough>.) Here, have a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ1BOhN7rxU cruft posted:3. former helicopter pilots who, due to an unfortunate ear infection, are no longer allowed to fly. These people traded their helicopter in for a dual drive Model 3 with white interior, then had it painted purple and added fluorescent blue pinstriping and for some reason bolted a Sears X-Cargo roof storage container to the panoramic roof. This seems weirdly specific.
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Jan 20, 2022 18:08
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Darchangel posted:This seems weirdly specific. Cruft, do you ever get flashbacks to Desert Storm?
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Jan 20, 2022 18:15
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pun pundit posted:It still does not have battery cooling. It still overheats on long trip fast charging, reducing charging speed on the second and subsequent charging sessions. Sure, it'll last longer on a single charge, and that may have alleviated what made me sell my first generation Leaf... But the moment I learned that it did not have active battery cooling, I discarded it as a potential purchase. Not every car has to be capable of doing long distances - there are lots of 2(+) car households where one of the cars only ever gets used as a commute/short distance car. I think my ideal garage (from a practicality perspective at least) would be a 40kWh Leaf/28kWh Ioniq + a Model 3/Polestar 2/Ioniq 5. Actually the main issue I have with the Leaf isn't battery cooling or CHAdeMO but how old the platform is - even as a city car it isn't going to be as safe as a property modern design.
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Jan 20, 2022 18:30
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3 hours to install a new firmware and rotate the tires. I sure hope this new Bolt firmware is the recall kludge, because when I got in it had charged to 95% despite me setting the limit to 80% and then triple checking that it stuck.
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Jan 20, 2022 19:25
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dissss posted:Not every car has to be capable of doing long distances - there are lots of 2(+) car households where one of the cars only ever gets used as a commute/short distance car. I think my ideal garage (from a practicality perspective at least) would be a 40kWh Leaf/28kWh Ioniq + a Model 3/Polestar 2/Ioniq 5. This is something I've really learned after owning an EV - I don't drive nearly as many miles as I thought I do. I think a lot of people really overemphasize range.
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Jan 20, 2022 19:45
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Nfcknblvbl posted:https://www.motortrend.com/news/bmw-ix-m60-brushed-electric-motor-tech-deep-dive/ Why? These have to be DC motors, right? Are they inverting the batteries to AC, running them thru a controller and then converting that back to RC? What's next? Giant Rheostats?? Edit: Never mind "It operates as a three-phase AC synchronous motor using brushes and a commutator to provide power to the rotor windings" Just like the 1930's elevator motors in my dad's parking garage. Still the brushes will wear out. VideoGameVet fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 20:29
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Hey, Bolt people, what version do you have of the software? I just got back from the service and it looks like I have 34.7.1, which was available in April 2019? Maybe GM doesn't bump versions when they update the software? Maybe they didn't do anything and I'm going to burn my house down... e: answered my own question. If you set the max charge over 80%, the set point cursor flashes for a second and then goes back down to 80%. Same software version, though. So GM doesn't think software version means what I, a software developer, think software version means. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this. GM seems to think this kludge is sufficient to let you run the battery down below 70mi now, so we've gone from 122 miles of usable range to 192 miles of usable range, and sometime this year (probably) that will go up to 239 miles. cruft fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Jan 20, 2022 |
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Jan 20, 2022 20:50
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Saukkis posted:What happens if you don't do the 0-60 at full performance, would it be able to reach 110 mph as quick as the non-GT? Is there a certain power level below 100% that would manage the quickest quarter mile time? There's a lot of people that like to speculate that the car might actually be quicker in some instances going like 90% throttle or 99% throttle or something but I really doubt it. Even a Ford engineer wouldn't be dumb enough to engineer temp/power/time curves such that you'd get more output over the same distance at part throttle. I really doubt there's any way to game the system. The other thing people like to speculate about is if you were to introduce some sort of superchilling system that engages as soon as you mash the throttle like a frunk full of dry ice on a cooling loop that opens as soon as you hammer it but I really doubt that also. If there's real temp sensors having a significant impact on it then I think they're buried too far into the (under cooled?) battery to be immediately impacted by something like that. The underperformance is just too consistent over all time/temperature situations for it to be majority controlled by a temp sensor. Starting speed and time at throttle % seem to be basically directly determining how much horsepower you get. One thing that was a bit of a recent surprise to me was DCFC + 80 mph highway speeds = horsepower is nearly permagimped. I knew that EVs generally don't like to give you all the horses right after fast charging but this was like 1.5 hours after fast charging and I had gotten off the 80 mph highway and was doing lower (45-60) speeds on backroads for 20 minutes or so and my horsepower was still in the toilet. I actually stopped and measured and it was an 8 or 9 second 0-60.
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Jan 20, 2022 23:25
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The Lightning Pro is already sold out for 2022. 
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Jan 21, 2022 03:29
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I still haven't gotten an invite from Ford to order, and I reserved a couple hours after the reveal. I'm beginning to think the only trims available at the time I get my invite will be XLT & Platinum which I don't want either so MY2023 it is!
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Jan 21, 2022 03:33
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dissss posted:Not every car has to be capable of doing long distances - there are lots of 2(+) car households where one of the cars only ever gets used as a commute/short distance car. All this is true, but the thesis was that the Leaf is an "excellent budget electric car," not that it was an excellent second car or city car. The i3 is also cheap used, has a shortish base range, but uses CCS and has an actively cooled battery, and so is more useful as an overall "car".
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Jan 21, 2022 03:49
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I think you're splitting hairs on this one. Budget does mean you're going to have some trade-offs compared to a more premium vehicle. However, the second gen Leafs do have a battery that's designed in a far better way than the Gen 1's. From your specific example, I'd take the gen 2 Leaf battery issues over the i3 battery issues any day of the week. Let alone what it takes to maintain a BMW in general. I stand by what I said. https://insideevs.com/news/429087/best-worst-ev-battery-degradation/ 2019 Leaf ranked 5th in year over year battery degradation (i3 was 6th to be fair). All of the PHEV ranked by far the worst, which...at that point you may as well get an EV. Who are you fooling? Kirios fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Jan 21, 2022 |
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Jan 21, 2022 03:58
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pun pundit posted:All this is true, but the thesis was that the Leaf is an "excellent budget electric car," not that it was an excellent second car or city car. The i3 is also cheap used, has a shortish base range, but uses CCS and has an actively cooled battery, and so is more useful as an overall "car". Depends on where you're prepared to compromise. The i3 is tiny inside and constructed in such a way that a parking lot scrape can be the end of the car. E. The original Ioniq on the other hand is a car I rate over the Leaf - it's just large enough to be practical for children, charges quickly and has CCS. dissss fucked around with this message at 09:39 on Jan 21, 2022 |
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Jan 21, 2022 09:34
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For me, living in Norway, the original Leaf's battery woes were all about fast charging being heavily heat throttled if you needed to charge more than once during a trip (leaving aside the chademo issues). The second gen did not fix that at all. Along with its efficiency problems, that means it's worse than the original ioniq EV with its leaf gen 1 size battery for long trips. That's terrible for a 40kWh car. I stand by my assessment that there needs to be an asterisk next to "excellent budget electric car", because people who read this thread for electric car recommendations may not live in a two car household. And that it fixed the leaf first generation battery woes is not true.
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Jan 21, 2022 12:39
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Leaf is a good commuter car if you don't need to use DCFC. For anything else, the Ioniq is better in almost every way.
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Jan 21, 2022 14:06
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pun pundit posted:I stand by my assessment that there needs to be an asterisk next to "excellent budget electric car", because people who read this thread for electric car recommendations may not live in a two car household. And that it fixed the leaf first generation battery woes is not true. LEAF owner chiming in: I agree with this. Please note, pun pundit isn't saying that phrase shouldn't be used, only that it be qualified.
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Jan 21, 2022 14:54
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My leaf was fantastic for commuting in traffic every soul crushing day for the life of the lease until I got the whole office moved closer to my house and bought a mustang.
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