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Bust Rodd posted:Two films that AFAICT were NEVER shown on Cartoon Network despite being absolutely PERFECT for it!! I really wonder why they could score Flight of Dragons but not these! I know that the Hobbit aired on normal cable because I had a VHS recording of it but it could have also been on like, Disney because they got weird sometimes and showed random stuff that they had distribution rights to but didn't actually make. Or maybe it was on the Family Channel or like Nickelodeon.
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Jan 18, 2022 16:58
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This is legit one of my all-time favorite movies. I have a DVD of it. This has two different cuts. The director's cut and the version that got released where they redubbed one of the characters to have more adult humor. The director was pissed about that version because the producer did it behind his back. The DVD has both versions.
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Jan 18, 2022 17:08
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I don't think I stayed up late at night to see those, and I might not have even had cable at that time. I'm sure that somewhere there's a list of movies that aired late at night, but all I've found are Cartoon Network's earlier pre-adult swim late night cartoon blocks like Toonheads, The Tex Avery Show, The Bob Clampett Show, and The Chuck Jones Show.Data Graham posted:I mean if you don't know the whole story behind it it's a wild read. I guess it's a little sad the guy didn't get his exact vision, but god drat, you can't work on a movie for 30 years and expect it to just come out fine like you always wanted. Black Cauldron suffered a lot from being in development hell for just over 10 years and spanning a couple generation shifts in animators and executives. There's some kind of efforts on Youtube to assemble whatever his original vision was, but me and my sister really enjoyed the version that we rented a few times from Hollywood Video. I even like the dumb songs. It's certainly got some strong aesthetics. Bust Rodd posted:Two films that AFAICT were NEVER shown on Cartoon Network despite being absolutely PERFECT for it!! I really wonder why they could score Flight of Dragons but not these! I did find a list of movies that CN aired during-hours as opposed to after hours, and apparently they showed it in 1995. https://www.nickandmore.com/kids-tv-history/list-of-movies-and-specials-aired-on-cartoon-network/ I dunno why they wouldn't show it again though. WB's the production company so it would've been in the available library. I guess maybe it was just real weird. SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 17:17
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SlothfulCobra posted:I don't think I stayed up late at night to see those, and I might not have even had cable at that time. I'm sure that somewhere there's a list of movies that aired late at night, but all I've found are Cartoon Network's earlier pre-adult swim late night cartoon blocks like Toonheads, The Tex Avery Show, The Bob Clampett Show, and The Chuck Jones Show. Toonheads was amazing and it's a drat shame that it hasn't been put on HBO Max or something
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Jan 18, 2022 17:22
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SlothfulCobra posted:I guess it's a little sad the guy didn't get his exact vision, but god drat, you can't work on a movie for 30 years and expect it to just come out fine like you always wanted. Black Cauldron suffered a lot from being in development hell for just over 10 years and spanning a couple generation shifts in animators and executives. Yeah I don't really subscribe to the idea that it's a good-vs-evil story of the Tireless Visionary and the Bad Corporate Suits Who Don't Get It. By all accounts WB was justifiably at the end of their rope and they've got plenty of very creative very well-intentioned people who simply looked at Williams ferreting away endlessly on massive battle scenes and impenetrable dialogue-less sequences of machinery mashing together and characters walking around through MC Escher optical-illusion backdrops and said "wtf, this is unwatchable, what are you even doing you crazy person". I don't imagine that if he'd been allowed to work on it for another fifty years he would have produced the Best Movie Ever, it probably would have just spiraled even further into itself and been just as unwatchable as the suits said. But holy hell the animation alone, for no other reason than just to stare at it. https://vimeo.com/112567166 Data Graham fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 17:29
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Data Graham posted:I mean if you don't know the whole story behind it it's a wild read. They ultimately ended up giving it away in cereal boxes. Although I somewhat agree with the above poster. Maybe its due to not being finished, but the thief character barely interacts or effects the rest of the cast despite getting a lot of screentime, and its just an excuse for some great animation. IShallRiseAgain fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 17:40
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Don't have a link because I'm phone posting but look up Yuri Norstein, a Russian animator who has spent the last 40 years hand animating a movie with just his wife as an assistant.
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Jan 18, 2022 18:17
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muscles like this! posted:Don't have a link because I'm phone posting but look up Yuri Norstein, a Russian animator who has spent the last 40 years hand animating a movie with just his wife as an assistant. I know about this because I watched this video a while ago : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73hip3pz0Xs Speaking as an animator I get why they can be perfectionist about it, but on the other hand, spending literal decades on a single film is unfathomable for me. The longest I spent on a single project was 10 months and that still felt excessive to me. I get a sense, based on the video, that they have absolute obsession with it. They're aware that they'll likely die before this gets done, but they don't care because their passion trumps common sense.
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Jan 18, 2022 21:33
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I know I'm late to the party but I watched Centaurworld based on how much buzz it was getting in this thread and well... I guess I'll give it enough credit to say the initial plot hook is good enough for sunk cost fallacy to kick in and drag you all the way over the finish line? See somewhere in the first season I almost thought it was a satire of a lot of post-Adventure Time cartoons where they start off goofy and then there's suddenly a dark turn and a bunch of lore gets brought in but after a while I realized no, it's just another one of those. Additional thoughts:
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Jan 19, 2022 07:49
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TwoPair posted:he's the picture for the tile on Netflix! That's the Netflix algorithm at work. It's decided Doug is the character that you'd most like to click on.
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Jan 19, 2022 08:15
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I normally like pretty weird nonsense but I just kind of bounced off Centaur World. Didn't even finish the first episode, it was just...too silly, I guess?
Happy Landfill fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jan 19, 2022 |
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Jan 19, 2022 08:41
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Bust Rodd posted:
I appreciate you posting these critiques, because it distillates a huge problem I've had with modern Simpsons that I don't think I could have articulated on my own. "Whereas 'classic' Simpsons mocked celebrity, new Simpsons worships it."
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Jan 19, 2022 10:33
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SolarFire2 posted:I appreciate you posting these critiques, because it distillates a huge problem I've had with modern Simpsons that I don't think I could have articulated on my own. thats a very very good point. in the good simpsons even the latter okish simpsons, it was always some weird cameo or an actual joke apperaence. the HW episode is still funny as gently caress. now a days they would have them work it out and be best friends give a 2000 gun salute or some poo poo while lisa waxes poetic in some lovely krysten sinema way. gently caress, i hate what new simpsons made lisa and flanders into.
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Jan 21, 2022 17:05
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How dare some one not like comfortable doug
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Jan 21, 2022 19:28
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On Black Friday I signed up for the 99 cent Hulu subscription, and I found the short-lived series "Out There" which I had never seen before. As a child of the '80s that didn't fit in well, it feels very sincere and authentic. I just wish there was more of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Out_There_(2013_TV_series) Also enjoying Venture Bros., which somehow I got this long without ever watching. It's brilliant but some elements have, uh, aged really badly in the 15 or so years since it was done.
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Jan 21, 2022 20:44
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TwoPair posted:I feel like every character besides Wammawink and Horse are terribly annoying 90% of the time because they're painfully underdeveloped and have no interesting arc (except for when they have the audacity to suddenly give everyone emotional backstories 5 episodes into season 2) I feel like I ended up liking all the main characters by the end except the giraffe centaur, and even then I didn't hate him. Though yeah, the episode where it was essentially just a bunch of backstories one after the other when none of them have an impact on the plot was a strange choice.
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Jan 21, 2022 20:48
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Number_6 posted:Also enjoying Venture Bros., which somehow I got this long without ever watching. It's brilliant but some elements have, uh, aged really badly in the 15 or so years since it was done. What percentage of the stuff that has aged badly has to do with Dr. Girlfriend? I'm guessing a lot.
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Jan 21, 2022 20:49
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Hexmage-SA posted:What percentage of the stuff that has aged badly has to do with Dr. Girlfriend? I'm guessing a lot. Stuff in her earlier episodes can be pretty bad yeah. The show does grow out of it after the first couple seasons though.
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Jan 21, 2022 21:02
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The first season came out when you could still call someone the f-slur on TV, I know it’s funny to think of 2001 as a different time, but it was a different time.
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Jan 22, 2022 00:27
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I think most of Venture Brothers probably holds up. I should really get around to watching the last season sometime. Dr. Girlfriend and the relative dearth of female characters comes from the fact that the bulk of the show's side characters are just the two writers (and the wife of one of the writers, who after a divorce her characters got written off). Maybe squeezing VA costs helped it manage to afford to not look like rear end on an Adult Swim budget. The thing I think might be most uncomfortable are the pedophile jokes, which I honestly don't know how all of that lands. Sargent Hatred eventually gets a backstory about somehow I guess some super soldier serum gave him pedophillic urges that he later takes meds to control, there might've been an offhand joke really early on referencing him maybe molesting one of the brothers before he was actually a character, but I'm not sure it's really clear. Captain Sunshine has a whole thing where "everybody knows" he's a pedophile and just shrugs it off, but then I think it's explicitly supposed to be a misunderstanding where actually he's just incredibly weird and platonically adopting stray youths, so I guess it's important to examining another kind of boy adventurer? I'm sure that there's gotta be some kind of rape jokes in there, but I don't think there's ever any jokes just victimizing people and making light of it, or anybody who's supposed to be like an unreservedly heroic character who rapes somebody. A lot of the characters in the show are supposed to be awful (but sometimes have character arcs about getting better). The only thing I can remember that isn't just like an offhand joke is when Rusty roofies some women he hired to come to homeschool prom, which while the intent to rape was there, his superscience roofies actually transform them into hideous bug monsters that they kill, and the girls might have been sleeper agents ready to murder the Venture family at the drop of a hat, but also possibly Molotov Cocktease was just bluffing about that, in which case they just killed some prostitutes/escorts, which admittedly killing innocent civilians wouldn't be out of character for the show, but it would also be the sort of uncomfortably misogynistic violence that would've been popular in those days. I feel like the episode What Color is Your Cleansuit would make me throw up, but then that's how I felt about it when it came out. Really gross and disgusting to me, but not in like a politically relevant way that there's been any kind of social changes around.
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Jan 22, 2022 02:05
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Number_6 posted:
yeah, the first 2 seasons have stuff that doesnt hold up but its also kinda starts as a weird parody show that has some ok characters, it really takes off into its own thing around season 3. SlothfulCobra posted:
is it because of Henrietta Pussycat? TwoPair posted:I know I'm late to the party but I watched Centaurworld based on how much buzz it was getting in this thread and well... I guess I'll give it enough credit to say the initial plot hook is good enough for sunk cost fallacy to kick in and drag you all the way over the finish line? interesting. alot of people i talk to like it but the Humor and the art style just turned me off the from the commercials. also when the merge both art styles it just clashes to hard for my taste. like its just too fluffy. it feels like they mixed Rebecca sugar's art styles with adventure times and it came out wrong. even the daemon king is kinda ehh, he looks like someone looked at the witcher 3 leshen and made it a genic goop monster. it looks cool in motion but its just ehh. Also stupid question. is santa inc good. i know alot of animation reviewers(not even just the weird chuddy shithead ones) loving hate it and it looked unfunny as gently caress but i am curious if i/they are wrong. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 04:15
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Yeah, the curse of Venture Brothers being so long-running is that there are some jokes that suck the air out of the room in re-runs. Not much that's uniquely terrible in comparison to contemporaries, and on the whole it does better than you'd think, but there are still a few there. The pedophile jokes are the worst because they kind of sucked the first time around from what I remember. The final episode dealing with Sgt. Hatred's pedophile curse thing had comments in the thread that it was a funny enough conclusion and god drat they hoped that it was the last time they mentioned it because it was not great.
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Jan 22, 2022 04:26
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Parakeet vs. Phone posted:Yeah, the curse of Venture Brothers being so long-running is that there are some jokes that suck the air out of the room in re-runs. Not much that's uniquely terrible in comparison to contemporaries, and on the whole it does better than you'd think, but there are still a few there. i think the biggest problem with the show in my opinion is like the first 2 or so seasons are mostly just a more clever version of various parody shows that adult swim was full of at the time, but much like moral Orel(though overall that show mostly aged well too), it only starts getting truly interesting when they start playing with the character stories and world building they set up for their weird joke show. like the jokes are still their but they play the world and some of the characters straight.
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Jan 22, 2022 04:35
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Doc and Jackson don’t owe it to anyone to add female characters to their show, and it’s pretty clear that even after 10 years they never got a female character’s voice to sound as authentic as the half-dozen pairs of two guys that the show revolves around. Doc Hammer and Jackson Public are only really good at one thing, they just happen to be the absolute best at it.
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Jan 22, 2022 05:24
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Bust Rodd posted:Doc and Jackson don’t owe it to anyone to add female characters to their show, and it’s pretty clear that even after 10 years they never got a female character’s voice to sound as authentic as the half-dozen pairs of two guys that the show revolves around. Doc Hammer and Jackson Public are only really good at one thing, they just happen to be the absolute best at it. They owe it to themselves to not weirdly excise major elements of the world as they engage with it. More broadly, if you zoom out from just the two of them to people in the comedy world, especially the adult comedy world, and people who don't justify themselves by putting out one of the best shows in its genre, insular groups of writers who don't wanna open themselves to an alien, unkown element like a woman for risk of that screwing with their mojo, were kind of a big problem for a long time, limiting their own medium and making the industry a shittier place. And actually a whole lot has improved on that front in the last 20 years and it's not like the two of them with their one show are like a major influence, but it sure is a weird thing that the two of them had their buddy thing going on, and they managed to incorporate other VAs into their whole mess, it shouldn't be "normal" for them to just be unable to reliably incorporate people from half of the world's population into their nonsense. Women have plenty of nonsense inside of them. At least the show works with a lot of its characters being weird hopeless antisocial losers so it's slightly less conspicuous.
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Jan 22, 2022 07:08
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As awkward as the show's first two seasons can be at times, I still feel the show was at its funniest during them
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Jan 22, 2022 07:27
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ShortyMR.CAT posted:How dare some one not like comfortable doug I'm on to you, Flula Borg...
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Jan 22, 2022 07:32
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drrockso20 posted:As awkward as the show's first two seasons can be at times, I still feel the show was at its funniest during them I agree, S1-S3 are the best the show ever was, by the end of the NYC final season the show has completely lost touch with everything from those seasons that made it special except for when it remembered to make references to itself. SlothfulCobra posted:They owe it to themselves to not weirdly excise major elements of the world as they engage with it While I do wish they had branched out of their formula at some point over the last 15 years, I think it’s better to just have a show that focuses on strong male characters and their relationships than it would be to have a show with badly written female characters. The Venture Bros. is almost by definition an exploration of fraternity, that’s the core and the beating heart of the whole thing, and while it sucks that there’s only be like 3 women in the whole series and only one of them could even really be called a character, it doesn’t detract from the henchmen or the Venture Bros or Doc & Brock or Billy & White from being some of the actual best and most consistently written characters in all of cartoons
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Jan 22, 2022 08:16
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I have become Comfortably Doug
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Jan 22, 2022 14:21
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Venture Bros' success in it's later seasons comes from a holistic approach to integrating character development. That sounds like buzzwords but what I mean is that all the jokes and parody elements from the early show are continuously recontextualized as the show develops, creating really compelling, tragic, funny characters and scenarios. Unfortunately, because of the dearth of female characters in the early show, this process - which is not nearly as effective at creating new, deep characters - perpetuates the sausagefest. Oh well. poo poo happens. Anyway every season of VB is better than the one before it.
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Jan 22, 2022 19:46
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Its a real thorn in my paw and one of the reasons i think the NYC season sucks so bad, because it looked for all of one episode that the show was adding a new female character with depth and an interesting storyline and NOPE she's just a plot device to turn Hank against Dean. That was probably when I stopped being invested in the future of the show. I'll watch whatever comes next but im not gonna be waiting with baited breath.
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Jan 22, 2022 19:56
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i really like both nyc seasons of VB. i agree that the show gets better as it goes on, and the start of season 6(?) where we finally get the payoff for the entire show building up jonas venture was some incredible television imo i do wish there was more female characters. whether it plays out as a lack of female characters or female characters being added but poorly written, that's a fault of the show's writing and not some impossible to overcome necessity of the premise. it can still be an incredibly good show despite that ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 20:17
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TwoPair posted:I'm on to you, Flula Borg... poo poo i wish i was a beatboxing german man
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Jan 22, 2022 22:56
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ninjewtsu posted:i really like both nyc seasons of VB. i agree that the show gets better as it goes on, and the start of season 6(?) where we finally get the payoff for the entire show building up jonas venture was some incredible television imo true but that arc had one of my favorite moments. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcFPtuhnyiQ
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Jan 23, 2022 00:19
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I think a lot of you are missing what Bust said, it's true. The series since the beginning has always been about masculinity, the boyhood expectations vs. the grownup reality, and horrible push to men having no emotions or talking about their hurt, along with fatherhood having no love but a push to be a man. And how that just ends up making absolute monsters like Jonas Venture. That and the classic Boy Adventurer series it's based on hardly ever had any women except as a damsel in distress at best, but not really with any agency. So you could probably blame it on the failure of the source material?
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Jan 23, 2022 03:33
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Miserable Maid posted:I think a lot of you are missing what Bust said, it's true. The series since the beginning has always been about masculinity, the boyhood expectations vs. the grownup reality, and horrible push to men having no emotions or talking about their hurt, along with fatherhood having no love but a push to be a man. And how that just ends up making absolute monsters like Jonas Venture. I feel like women actually probably have quite a bit to say about all of those things!
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Jan 23, 2022 03:41
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Rand Brittain posted:I feel like women actually probably have quite a bit to say about all of those things! Yea, but the two guys who wrote the entire show aren’t interested in what women have to say about anything going on in their story, because they want to tell stories about groups of dudes who are friends or brothers, and the deep emotional interplay that takes place between them. Are they wrong for wanting to tell stories that focus on male relationships? Is it bad that there are no female characters in the show? I personally don’t think you can really call it a failing if it was never a part of the blueprints in the first place. Dr. Girlfriend is a better, deeper, more complex character than a lot of shows manage to pull off, but the guys basically had to make her the main villain of the series because they didn’t know what to do with her, there were still so many stories to tell about pairs of men talking about referential minutiae!
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Jan 23, 2022 03:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sel3fjl6uyo the voices are not what I expecting but i don't hate them at least, but HOLY MOTHER OF GOD does this look amazing
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Jan 24, 2022 20:30
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budget-wise, venture brothers has always been a shoestring operation and the lack of female characters is more due to the lack of ability of the creators to voice or write female characters until the point that it just became a very masculine world by default. it works for the show because the show exploits that playful, insane energy of pure male spaces, just guys being dudes and getting up to idiot poo poo that wouldn't happen if there was a woman around to tell the guys to knock it off. this is why dr. mrs. the monarch, who has a number of aliases related to her relationship to the men in her life, doesn't even have a full name of her own, or how the other major female character of the early seasons, molotov cocktease, was similarly deliberately reduced to a caricature of a femme fatale. the show got better over time by introducing more female characters but its still a show with more gay male characters than regular, important female characters. the only reason this isn't really problematic is that the show is aware of, and pokes fun of, how gleefully masculine it is - hank and dean's mom is a deliberate question mark which i hope will never be answered, her complete absence from the show is why the venture family ends up so deranged
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Jan 24, 2022 20:55
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:budget-wise, venture brothers has always been a shoestring operation and the lack of female characters is more due to the lack of ability of the creators to voice or write female characters until the point that it just became a very masculine world by default. it works for the show because the show exploits that playful, insane energy of pure male spaces, just guys being dudes and getting up to idiot poo poo that wouldn't happen if there was a woman around to tell the guys to knock it off. this is why dr. mrs. the monarch, who has a number of aliases related to her relationship to the men in her life, doesn't even have a full name of her own, or how the other major female character of the early seasons, molotov cocktease, was similarly deliberately reduced to a caricature of a femme fatale. the show got better over time by introducing more female characters but its still a show with more gay male characters than regular, important female characters. the only reason this isn't really problematic is that the show is aware of, and pokes fun of, how gleefully masculine it is - hank and dean's mom is a deliberate question mark which i hope will never be answered, her complete absence from the show is why the venture family ends up so deranged Yes she does, she is Sheila Fitzcarraldo, we don't have her maiden name, but do we need it?
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Jan 24, 2022 21:14
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