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A bunch of hiring managers are starting to get real burned out on interviews too and may be quicker to get to "gently caress it" mode.
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Jan 22, 2022 07:10
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Yeah could be. It's in tech so maybe I'm just running into a larger number of techbros
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Jan 22, 2022 13:23
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You might as well talk/act like you do in a normal workday in an interview because better to know now. For both sides of the table.
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Jan 22, 2022 15:53
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Anyone here in the service design sector (aka CX design)? I'm pivoting careers and could use another set of eyes and ears on my portfolio in a few weeks.
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Jan 22, 2022 16:03
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Hello, I’ve been a Program Manager for 2.5 years at an Aero and Defense company and overall have over 10 years experience across a variety of engineering. Trying to break into Product Management in Tech, so there are a lot of resources out there on how to do it, but I feel they are aimed to folks with maybe 2-3 years earlier on the curve than me. Two questions I’m hoping this thread could help with. 1) MBA -> PM is a common move. I got an Evening MBA about ~3 years ago, was the valedictorian, and used that as a push into Program Management. I think that could still do heavy lifting for moving into Product Management (emphasizes the business chops and maybe provides some familiarity since I’m not in Tech now) so I was thinking of putting it at the top of my resume, but is that a bit of a red flag for someone who has been working for 11 years? It feels to me like it might be weird to emphasize that first over my professional experience since it was a few years ago. 2) I’m making a serious effort to use LinkedIn. Should I turn on OpentoWork (without the silly banner)? I hear conflicting thing of recruiters not paying it too much attention and they’ll find you anyways vs. it being a serious filter in look ups. The risk is my company finding out I am looking. Normally I wouldn’t care too much but my boss can be kinda confrontational, and I work at a small division of a big corporation bleeding people so I wouldn’t be surprised if they worked around it. Thanks!!!
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Jan 22, 2022 16:38
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Why do you want to break into Product? (Note: asking as I'm a hiring manager, not a PM naysayer)
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Jan 22, 2022 19:23
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Crazyweasel posted:Hello, I’ve been a Program Manager for 2.5 years at an Aero and Defense company and overall have over 10 years experience across a variety of engineering. Trying to break into Product Management in Tech, so there are a lot of resources out there on how to do it, but I feel they are aimed to folks with maybe 2-3 years earlier on the curve than me. Two questions I’m hoping this thread could help with. I’ve known a few people who went to SaaS/App startups after being a defense PM. #1 either is fine IMO. If it’s not a well known school, emphasize valedictorian. If it’s strayer or one of the GI bill diploma mills, consider leaving it off. #2 I’d def turn it on. What are you really worried about? Having to have a frank conversation with your boss? You’re a PM. All you do if frank conversations about CPI and SPI. You want multiple off offers at the same time so you can play them against each other. If they see it and confront you that’s a poo poo boss, but who cares? What will they do fire you right then? As much as losing important people sucks, people want to grow over time and if they’re mad at your for wanting that, gently caress em. Big defense companies ain’t gonna fire you quickly, you’ll find a job before they do.
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Jan 22, 2022 20:37
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CarForumPoster posted:I’ve known a few people who went to SaaS/App startups after being a defense PM. This is all spot on advice and this is the best ever time to be like "Yeah I'm looking, so what?"
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Jan 22, 2022 20:46
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Omne posted:Why do you want to break into Product? Thanks for this, as part of my brush up I've been meaning to work through my little story, this forced me to do it! I like creating/doing meaningful things and solving complex business problems, so I'm attracted to companies where the development of the right product solves the problem - in contrast to doing deep R&D or being a technical SME [This is why I went MBA]. Mix in that I derive a significant amount of my motivation and creativity when I deeply understand and have a strong alignment with the "Why" a product is what it is, I think Product Management is the natural fit. How'd I get there? Well a lot of soul searching about what motivates me combined with looking back on what I focus on at work and seeing what emerges. What I've found is that I've essentially been working "downstream" of Product Management for most of my career, and in each position I find that once I get settled and learn the hard skills I was searching for, I begin to dig deeper into the "Why" (e.g. Why do we have the product requirements and priorities we do? Why is this the right market, right time, right opportunity?). I find myself enjoying developing business cases with/for the Strategy/BD/PM groups, pushing them on features and constraints, and synthesizing data from customers and multiple sources etc. I've also been intentionally climbing the ladder on the execution-heavy side because I think it is all kind of meaningless if you don't know how to actually work something through/lead teams from soup to nuts in the dirty work, and also knowing how to make key decisions when things go wrong/you can't do it all. This is what led me into my current role of basically a TPM, but I'm feeling I'm approaching a bit of a ceiling. I also really like leading teams (directly and indirectly) in a way that maximizes everyone's contributions, recognition, and personal fulfillment. I think in most cases Product Management would ultimately be able to achieve that by driving development of successful products. ^^CarForumPoster and Lockback. Yea it is true our relationship is pretty much predicated on frank conversations about poo poo hitting the fan, but at the end of the day I'm always a bit of a people pleaser, so it has sometimes been tough for me to have the career growth conversations that end in "I don't think you can help me the way I need..." Thanks for the encouragement and insight.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:00
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Crazyweasel posted:Thanks for this, as part of my brush up I've been meaning to work through my little story, this forced me to do it! Reading this near meaningless MBA jargon riddled drivel caused me to vomit, causing irreparable damage to my pants, keyboard, and desk. You'll be hearing from my attorneys. This is fine in spirit, and a normal interview question to get. For it to play well in an interview, use less jargon and half the words. Take out the phrases that soften your argument. ("I think") For example instead of these two sentences quote:Well a lot of soul searching about what motivates me combined with looking back on what I focus on at work and seeing what emerges. What I've found is that I've essentially been working "downstream" of Product Management for most of my career, and in each position I find that once I get settled and learn the hard skills I was searching for, I begin to dig deeper into the "Why" (e.g. Why do we have the product requirements and priorities we do? Why is this the right market, right time, right opportunity?). You could say: quote:When I was IC, I found I always wanted to understand the whys behind the requirements from a technical and business perspective. Why is this the right time, market and opportunity, for example. Essentially the same thing, 1/3 of the words means I can understand your point and engage you on it. More words = confusing. Interview time = small.
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Jan 22, 2022 22:44
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op definitely got a MBA
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Jan 23, 2022 16:07
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Ok cool; I've seen a shitload of people wanting to break into product management because they see insane FAANG salaries/total comp, or they want to "be the CEO of the product." Whenever someone says the latter in an interview, I make a note to reject them. PMs aren't the CEOs of poo poo, and that mentality is cancer to a well-functioning product team. Your reasons are good, but a bit on the business side (which, yeah, MBA; I fell into this bucket as well). I would talk a bit about wanting to solve complex user problems, showcase some empathy in that regard.
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Jan 23, 2022 18:13
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Thanks for the feedback, I’ll tighten it up and I swear I am genuine!!! But I get what you are saying. It just sucks spending months working like crazy, and burning out a team, to go from concept to hardware while the market analysis or requirements definition starts to crumble and leadership decides to keep chugging along and wasting everyone’s times…and I know I could do it better, and try to do it! Early in the career I didn’t have my head high enough to really make those judgement calls but with some more experience it is kinda showing me where I want to go. Omne, thanks for the tip and the red flag. Yea one of my possible weaknesses is that I’m not a person who has a huge attraction to a certain type of tech, but since I’ve been in Science and Engineering my whole life that’s just kinda my knowledge set. I end up being really motivated by businesses (or groups within one) that have a clear goal and vision of what their objectives are and how they are going to go do it, and then being a leader in making that happen.
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Jan 23, 2022 20:11
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Anyone willing to look over my resume? I'm updating it with my current job, which may end up going charter air soon which means less maintenance, so I want to be prepared for our base to be closed here at the airport. Somehow it's two pages, and I'm feeling insecure about this but can't find a way to shorten it. As an aside, if you applied for a job and were notified you moved up in the process but hadn't heard from them yet, how would you go about inserting a more updated resume to that application (this is brassring)? I have been stuck in "resume in review" for a month and a half so I'm not all that hopeful I'll be granted an interview, but want to make sure I'm consistent as I've applied for multiple jobs at this particular company.
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Jan 24, 2022 16:57
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Redact identifying info and  friend
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Jan 24, 2022 17:03
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life is killing me posted:Anyone willing to look over my resume? I'm updating it with my current job, which may end up going charter air soon which means less maintenance, so I want to be prepared for our base to be closed here at the airport. Somehow it's two pages, and I'm feeling insecure about this but can't find a way to shorten it. Post your resume. Redact if you're concerned about it. Didnt you tell us a month ago though that you signed an offer letter? What happened with that?
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Jan 24, 2022 17:03
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2 pages is probably not a big deal if you're well into your career, but it might mean you need to remove old stuff. Nthing redact and post. I probably wouldn't bother trying to update the resume, when you have something scheduled you can maybe send an updated one to the recruiter/interviewers.
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Jan 24, 2022 17:08
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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Kb8rj5mHymgERN6eLxGIJ_pMQKzeePR2/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=111362169678525297134&rtpof=true&sd=trueCarForumPoster posted:Post your resume. Redact if you're concerned about it. I'm currently working at that job, and I'm enjoying it, but rumors abound the company will be going air charter, and there's no telling what will happen to our base if they do. Lockback posted:2 pages is probably not a big deal if you're well into your career, but it might mean you need to remove old stuff. Nthing redact and post. Why not (genuinely)? I was hoping it would show that someone saw me as employable, given what you'll see in my resume (a huge experience gap between experience in my current career field)
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Jan 24, 2022 18:16
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Are the boxes and stuff an artifact of the redaction? If not (and probably anyway) I'd strongly consider formatting this differently, find a template online. It is hard to navigate. Your intro is way too wordy. are you looking for jobs maintaining military rotary aircraft? If not, you are spending a lot of time talking about it. I think you can cut that down to about half or less. You are describing jobs. Your future employers will know what a mechanic does. Talk about things you accomplished. Did you meet all standards? Did you ever get any recognition for keeping maintenance? How did you keep immaculate logs? Things like that. The Apache Crewchief is taking up way too much realestate. There's good stuff in there but cut that way down. Again, you don't need to describe the job. What were some of the highlights that showed you were good at it. Remove HS diploma. Do you have any other trainings or certifications? Not to be presumptuous, but I used to be a contractor for the Army so I saw this a lot. I think you're stuck in a mindset of "what boxes did I check" when the civilian world cares about "What did you excel at, and can I get from you that I can't get from someone else (cheaper)". This is real common but coming at it from that point of view will probably improve your resume. life is killing me posted:Why not (genuinely)? I was hoping it would show that someone saw me as employable, given what you'll see in my resume (a huge experience gap between experience in my current career field) There's that much to add in a month and a half?
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Jan 24, 2022 18:35
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Lockback posted:Are the boxes and stuff an artifact of the redaction? If not (and probably anyway) I'd strongly consider formatting this differently, find a template online. It is hard to navigate. The poor formatting is a symptom of the word document carryover to Google drive, I don't know how to fix that but I only upload the word document or pdf where the original formatting isn't changed. I mostly want critique on the content and what I can cut down, and you gave me that. As to certifications, FAA Part 65 is the main certification any future potential employers would be looking for, and if they aren't looking specifically for it, it will be a plus. I'm also licensed for HCFC Refrigerants Type II, but I don't have the card anymore, and there's no national EPA database keeping logs of licensees, you can only get replacements through whatever school issued the license, and I obtained this in the Army. It's on my linked in along with the license number, but in absence of the physical card, I have chosen not to put it on my resume. Is that something I should reconsider? I received some awards in the Army, some of the medals I was awarded were not directly related to my abilities and skills as a crew chief. One had to do with my initiative and speed in making sure my aircraft was armed and ready to go on a mission to support troops in contact, but ultimately that doesn't seem too terribly relevant to the civilian jobs I'm looking at. I received an unofficial company award from my commander at the time, not sure how to indicate that on my resume or if I should, but it's probably the most directly related. And yeah, I see your point on how short a time I've been working for the current company. If I could take out the real estate entries I would also, but they are there to explain my gap in aviation experience.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:05
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life is killing me posted:As to certifications, FAA Part 65 is the main certification any future potential employers would be looking for, and if they aren't looking specifically for it, it will be a plus. I'm also licensed for HCFC Refrigerants Type II, but I don't have the card anymore, and there's no national EPA database keeping logs of licensees, you can only get replacements through whatever school issued the license, and I obtained this in the Army. It's on my linked in along with the license number, but in absence of the physical card, I have chosen not to put it on my resume. Is that something I should reconsider? Yes, list all certs and if they push on wanting to see the cards you can explain you will need to go through some hoops to present them. Most likely they won't ask. life is killing me posted:I received some awards in the Army, some of the medals I was awarded were not directly related to my abilities and skills as a crew chief. One had to do with my initiative and speed in making sure my aircraft was armed and ready to go on a mission to support troops in contact, but ultimately that doesn't seem too terribly relevant to the civilian jobs I'm looking at. I received an unofficial company award from my commander at the time, not sure how to indicate that on my resume or if I should, but it's probably the most directly related. Yes, that kind of thing is way better to include than descriptions of what everyone who does the job does. You don't need to go into super detail. "Awarded dickbutt medal for speed and accuracy in high stress situations", list any and all of those and just generalize what they are for. In general your story seems fine. You were in the army, you left and did other stuff, then came back to aircraft engineering. That jives and won't bring up many questions, and honestly both the real estate and photography business are ok to have on there, they show you have lots of skills and people want to work with other interesting people. You just need to make a pass on your resume with the thought that this is a marketing document, something that shows why you're better than other candidates, not just you meet rote requirements.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:16
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I've been working retail since I graduated with an art degree. I've had several interviews for creative jobs but I have an office job interview coming up. Is it a bad idea to bring my portfolio knowing the job is all clerical?
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Jan 26, 2022 19:24
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Is there a marketing/creative side to the position? If not, I'd avoid as you're setting yourself up to be the go to person to be pressured into helping for those roles while you're not getting paid for them. Especially if this is a smaller company.
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Jan 26, 2022 19:36
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Parallelwoody posted:Is there a marketing/creative side to the position? If not, I'd avoid as you're setting yourself up to be the go to person to be pressured into helping for those roles while you're not getting paid for them. Especially if this is a smaller company. Extremely correct. But if we're talking actual art instead of, like, graphic design, then just don't bring it up imo. More likely to be a negative than positive in the eyes of someone who manages bottom rung office staff. Do everything you can to frame your interview as "I am really into this job and this company!" not "I'm desperate to escape retail hell, I'll bdo anything", however closer to the truth the latter may be.
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Jan 26, 2022 19:50
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off-key indie nonsense posted:I've been working retail since I graduated with an art degree. I've had several interviews for creative jobs but I have an office job interview coming up. Is it a bad idea to bring my portfolio knowing the job is all clerical? Bring proof that you could do the job well, not proof that you can do another job well.
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Jan 26, 2022 20:01
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Thanks for confirming. It just feels strange to walk into an interview empty handed, so to speak.
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Jan 26, 2022 20:12
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I agree with all of the above, though if you have an example of something graphic-designy and professional that's probably a plus, like a flyer or brochure or something. While that might make you the go-to guy for graphic design stuff, if you'd rather do graphic design stuff it might not be a bad thing to do some of that as part of your job. Again, if it's capital-A art and not relevant don't bring it.
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Jan 26, 2022 20:34
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I'm working on my resume in the Network/IT field and am trying to convey the years of experience working with different technologies (vendors, protocols, tools, scripting, etc) is it good practice to put the years of experience next to the skill in which I am posting such as: Wireshark (7+ years) Juniper Routers (7+ years)
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Jan 26, 2022 21:45
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Probably not. If you've got a multi-line list of technologies you're comfortable with (and you should!), rank them in order of (either) most relevant to the job you're applying for to least relevant or most expert to least expert. Hopefully there's a good bit of overlap between these two schemes. The companies job is to filter out bad candidates. Your job is to make yourself as appealing as possible. I don't think there are many circumstances where a company would see 7 years of wireshark and think "ooh, thats a hire right there" but I can think of circumstances where 6 months of wireshark would be an instant no-hire decision. You are an expert at everything until they ask you questions about it, and then be reasonably honest while still casting yourself in the best light possible.
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Jan 26, 2022 21:55
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I've seen a lot of software engineers who have been working in software engineering for 10 years but have more-or-less just repeated their first year 10 times. I work in a different flavor of computer touching, but I don't personally regard years of experience as a good proxy for competency. I agree with Happiness Commando that everything should be presented on your resume as expert-level until asked. If you have base familiarity with, say, Cisco routers, throw those on there too next to Juniper and then when asked about them you can always throw out two or three conceptual differences between them and Juniper and explain why Juniper's always fit your use case better and that's driven you to have more experience there. I would imagine that your deep knowledge of network administration is applicable to both.
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Jan 26, 2022 22:33
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MAKE SURE to either order or even do two categories (Proficient vs exposure to). If your resume is implying your an expert at something and then turns out your barely know it you can sink and otherwise winnable interview.
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Jan 27, 2022 02:10
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What is the feeling ITT about how long to wait to update your LinkedIn with a new job? Some people on Quora recommend waiting a couple of months to see how things shake out.
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Jan 27, 2022 19:39
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:What is the feeling ITT about how long to wait to update your LinkedIn with a new job? Some people on Quora recommend waiting a couple of months to see how things shake out. The timing doesn't matter at all. IMO keeping your LinkedIn up to date is like a local retail small business having an online store. It is near 0 effort and it sells for you 24 hours/day. No one will notice if you remove that job later.
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Jan 27, 2022 20:47
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My concern is that it blasts out an email to everyone I'm connected to, including people in my industry, which would have a lot of benefits honestly. Then what happens if this job doesn't work out? It's going really great so far, but this is also just week 2 and I am paranoid and have zero self esteem so am just operating on the presumption I will gently caress this up somehow.
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Jan 27, 2022 20:52
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KOTEX GOD OF BLOOD posted:My concern is that it blasts out an email to everyone I'm connected to, including people in my industry, which would have a lot of benefits honestly. Then what happens if this job doesn't work out? It's going really great so far, but this is also just week 2 and I am paranoid and have zero self esteem so am just operating on the presumption I will gently caress this up somehow. You can disable the setting that sends notification when you update your profile, if that's your concern.
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Jan 27, 2022 21:00
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I think there are a lot of benefits to taking advantage of that, the downside is that I could also be loving myself if I am failing at my job and don't understand that yet. 
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Jan 27, 2022 22:10
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I doubt it will really matter either way, how much would you care if someone in your network took down a job? That's how much other people will care. But if it gives you some anxiety wait a couple months.
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Jan 27, 2022 23:36
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I'm a non-trad career switcher into software dev after a 10 year career as a lawyer. I'm looking for some opinions on my resume and whether it is reasonable for me to target an IC role in the 160-200k USD range. In my transition period 3 years ago, I had a lot of success winning hackathons but my sense is more professional experience I gain, the less meaningful hackathon wins are. In terms of team leadership, I'm getting into more mentoring and knowledge sharing responsibilities at work but I am not really sure how to quantify the impact. My LinkedIn profile goes into more detail. Appreciate any opinions and suggestions. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BMSsDJWGuqSMj1FVgdiC9Zd1kflbvVM4/view?usp=sharing
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Jan 30, 2022 08:43
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I want to ask about this bit from the OP:Bisty Q. posted:Tell me what I need to know about making a good resume! So, if this is true, why does basically every resume template I find online have one of these? Is this advice from the OP still accurate? Or is it the hiring managers who are wrong, in patented Skinner-fashion?
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Jan 30, 2022 15:19
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Magnetic North posted:I want to ask about this bit from the OP: I would say I generally don't agree with that statement in the OP, though its probably true most people spend too much real estate . New grads should probably skip it, people with Junior/Intermediate experience should probably have a 1 line that gives a quick explanation (ex: in tech "Backend Engineer with Java and MongoDB experience"). Senior exp/managers can have more but at that point it starts depending a lot on how you're formatting/marketing yourself. Mantle posted:I'm a non-trad career switcher into software dev after a 10 year career as a lawyer. Are you co-located somewhere with 160k+ jobs or looking remote? If its' the latter than I'd say you should definitely apply because those jobs are usually won or lost in the interview/code test. So if you're able to ace those you have a good shot. If you're looking more at local, not-particularly-close-to-faang your resume strikes me as an intermediate BE that doesn't really jump out. So I think you'd struggle to find salaries like that locally in, like, the Chicago Suburbs or New England or whatever. I don't really have any advice or experience on getting into FAANG or FAANG-adjacent companies, though my impression is this is probably the kind of resume they get 100s of. Do you have a JD? If so, you should definitely list that.
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Jan 30, 2022 15:56
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