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Which horse film is your favorite? This poll is closed. |
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| Black Beauty |
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2 | 1.06% |
| A Talking Pony!?! |
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4 | 2.13% |
| Mr. Hands 2x Apple Flavor |
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117 | 62.23% |
| War Horse |
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11 | 5.85% |
| Mr. Hands |
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54 | 28.72% |
| Total: | 188 votes | ||
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Willa Rogers posted:Nah, I wasn't talking about yelling at people or fat-shaming, just a coordinated national effort & PR campaign to address it as the greatest co-morbidity for covid lethality. Make it a stroll to the corner instead of a race to the top. As far as I can tell, the only difference is that one is asking somebody to do something really easy, and one is asking somebody to do something that statistically almost everybody fails at. Willa Rogers posted:(Your reaction alone shows me why it'd never work and why it was dumb for me to suggest it, heh.)  Happy to help.
Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 17:16
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As I said: You've convinced me it was a dumb idea! e: What I meant by the partisanship is that I can no longer imagine a "We're All in This Together" campaign about anything nationally unless it's going to war or in favor of austerity, the two points on which it seems at all possible to get Americans to agree outside of viewing through red or blue glasses. (There are transpartisan popular ideas like "public health insurance" or "government controls on drug pricing" but we can't have those things bc the elected reps of the two major political parties are beholden to the industries that oppose them.) Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 17:30
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The challenge with obesity (in the US at least) is the lack of easily affordable and available options that are even marginally healthier. You look at any Asian country (and some European countries) and you can get an amazing meal that isn’t just loaded with addictive sugar and oil at either dirt cheap or reasonably affordable. I’m not even saying fast food is the issue as much as it’s the type of fast food on offer. Its great that there are some better options but they are either too expensive or unable to break the market saturation. Also stress is insanely high in the US which doesn’t help. Methods to fix these issues would need to go against the whims of capital so it is not possible to fix the obesity epidemic in the US. As a result, folks are just going to continue to have insanely lovely outcomes with covid accelerating them.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:00
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USA Question: Did the Executive Mandate for Federal Contractors get opined on by the Supreme Court? I know the OSHA one was up for debate; I also know there was some sort of injunction put on it. Was that temporary, or did it get fully killed? I ask because there was a spicy post in our all-company forum that got deleted pretty fast, demanding that the company apologize for pushing an illegal mandate on us. Except we were technically covered by both the OSHA and the Federal Contractor mandates, so I think that we're still under a governmental vaccine mandate, yeah? Regardless, the company got ahead of it and said "Eh, legal challenges or not, it's within our right to require it so we're still gonna". Just curious on the status of the Federal Contractor Executive Order, I guess!
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Jan 24, 2022 18:02
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Most Americans are big babies who aren't willing to try anything out of their comfort zone. Pizzas and burgers all day every day.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:02
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:The challenge with obesity (in the US at least) is the lack of easily affordable and available options that are even marginally healthier. You look at any Asian country (and some European countries) and you can get an amazing meal that isn’t just loaded with addictive sugar and oil at either dirt cheap or reasonably affordable. I’m not even saying fast food is the issue as much as it’s the type of fast food on offer. Its great that there are some better options but they are either too expensive or unable to break the market saturation. Our community has a produce mobile that hands out the good stuff but it's only once a month or so, for a couple hours, and you have to be registered through a local food bank. I don't know if it's federally funded. otoh, the local Meals on Wheels/low-income senior meals (which are federally funded) are icky microwave-only overly processed, overly salted, and overly sugared frozen foods. The portions are small, so they're calorically ok, but I can't imagine that they're very nutritious. And yeah, you're right about the whims of capital; dang, just look at those government-created food pyramids over time.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:09
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There are so many reasons a person might become fat that it's really a product of how our entire society is structured, from lack of access to health care (whether physical or mental) to the way our cities are developed. Telling fat people they're fat is like using paper straws to combat climate change, not to mention the weird amount of hostility around the whole discussion. The only way to "fix" the problem of fat people existing is to completely renovate and re-evaluate how we live life, but we can't even agree that covid is airborne, so I assume we'll just continue operating on the same platform of personal responsibility that doomed the pandemic response.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:11
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The idea that it's impossible for most Americans to lose fat is nonsense. I think it would be odd for many goons to support strict COVID measures and police powers in so many realms but then when it comes to a major and controllable risk factor like obesity (that also connects to so many other bad health outcomes) just throw up our hands and say, "well there's nothing to be done about it!" If we think that Joe Biden should be forcing people to wear masks, get vaccinated, go to work and school remotely, close restaurants, etc, why shouldn't we also think that Joe Biden should be forcing people to not be obese anymore?
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Jan 24, 2022 18:12
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gohuskies posted:The idea that it's impossible for most Americans to lose fat is nonsense. I think it would be odd for many goons to support strict COVID measures and police powers in so many realms but then when it comes to a major and controllable risk factor like obesity (that also connects to so many other bad health outcomes) just throw up our hands and say, "well there's nothing to be done about it!" If we think that Joe Biden should be forcing people to wear masks, get vaccinated, go to work and school remotely, close restaurants, etc, why shouldn't we also think that Joe Biden should be forcing people to not be obese anymore? Because he’d have to attack capital directly and we already saw how that goes with a deadly airborne virus. Edit: I’m obviously not saying he shouldn’t. Just that it’s unlikely and depressing.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:14
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gohuskies posted:The idea that it's impossible for most Americans to lose fat is nonsense. I think it would be odd for many goons to support strict COVID measures and police powers in so many realms but then when it comes to a major and controllable risk factor like obesity (that also connects to so many other bad health outcomes) just throw up our hands and say, "well there's nothing to be done about it!" If we think that Joe Biden should be forcing people to wear masks, get vaccinated, go to work and school remotely, close restaurants, etc, why shouldn't we also think that Joe Biden should be forcing people to not be obese anymore? covid-19 is significantly more infectious than obesity.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:14
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Also, what would that even look like? Anybody over a certain weight has their food access policed? You have to show your BMI card before you're allowed to order from McDonald's?
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Jan 24, 2022 18:16
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gohuskies posted:The idea that it's impossible for most Americans to You're actually far more likely to be born into the bottom income quintile and move up to the highest quintile than you are to successfully lose a large percentage of your body weight (*long-term). Sure, neither is "impossible" - just work hard, be disciplined! But in both cases, the vast majority of people will fail, while other people, who had more advantages, never had to fight the battle in the first place (and yet look down on those who lost it.)
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Jan 24, 2022 18:16
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And losing weight is still easier than keeping it off for a long time
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Jan 24, 2022 18:19
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Mellow Seas posted:You're actually far more likely to be born into the bottom income quintile and move up to the highest quintile than you are to successfully lose a large percentage of your body weight. Sure, neither is "impossible" - just work hard, be disciplined! But in both cases, the vast majority of people will fail, while other people, who had more advantages, never had to fight the battle in the first place (and yet look down on those who lost it.) Both are directly related to America’s willingness to debase itself on the alter of capitalism that it will happily allow 9/11 deaths a day for an airborne virus let alone pack addictive sugary additives in low nutritional food.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:22
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Also, what would that even look like? Anybody over a certain weight has their food access policed? You have to show your BMI card before you're allowed to order from McDonald's? Good god, the hyperbole in response to the suggestion that the government sponsor a public-health campaign about obesity as they do about vaccines & masking is off the rails. As I said, it's not about fat-shaming (or barring people from eating Big Macs, or an official Fat Police); it's about encouraging healthy eating & honestly stating the risks of having covid while obese. The reason I mentioned Michelle Obama originally is bc this was her pet project as first lady, and I think she was pretty successful in doing so without sending the fat-shaming stormtroopers into people's homes to examine the contents of their refrigerators. eta: eg, she helped convince the food & restaurant industries to label caloric content on menus & offer healthier alternatives. Also, she helped retool school lunches (for better or for worse). She did as much as could be done without alienating capital. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 18:30 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 18:26
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Also, what would that even look like? Anybody over a certain weight has their food access policed? You have to show your BMI card before you're allowed to order from McDonald's? excellent question. it would look like permanently closing mcdonalds, the firm, or at least seizing control of the firm and restructuring its operations and relation to the rest of society so much that it would be a completely different organization, as part of a larger collective campaign to restructure our food industry away from profit-based organization forms and towards evidence- and human outcomes-based organization.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:27
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virtualboyCOLOR posted:Both are directly related to America’s willingness to debase itself on the alter of capitalism that it will happily allow 9/11 deaths a day for an airborne virus let alone pack addictive sugary additives in low nutritional food. Yeah, honestly I wish I knew more about the Reagan-era changes in food regulations and subsidies. I know jamming maximum amounts of corn into everything possible started up in the 1980s, and was linked to subsidies, but I don't know how much was due to government action vs. free market "innovation". Anybody know a good book on the subject? My immediate family, for example, went from none of us being fat in 1990 to all of us being fat in 2000 (and we've all bounced all over the place since). Like, I'm not gonna say the rapidly rising quality of cable TV had nothing to do with it, but clearly something happened to our food. I think it's import to prevent obesity in children because they are likely to struggle their entire lives. I think Michelle Obama's program wasn't bad, and I think it even had some success in making the rates plateau in children? For adults, I think we should focus on actual medical intervention (not what doctors usually do, which is just tell people stuff they already know), overall health (with less emphasis on BMI) and mental well-being.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:30
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Willa Rogers posted:Good god, the hyperbole in response to the suggestion that the government sponsor a public-health campaign about obesity as they do about vaccines & masking is off the rails. I think tying a public health campaign to Covid would do a lot to further politicize healthy eating than anything else, personally. It's not like the same people complaining about masks and vaccines being an assault on their freedoms aren't the same loving people that think the epitome of American cuisine is butter wrapped in bacon and deep fried and Moochelle Obama better stay the hell away from their kid's lunches. e: Bolded has been exceptionally helpful as a diabetic, but a lot of that started long before Michelle Obama's thing, because I first remember it being a thing at a lot of chains around the time that Atkins took off. It was also right after I was diagnosed with diabetes, so it felt like somewhat fortuitous timing. I'm certainly not against more public health awareness campaigns, just pointing out that I don't think it would be some magical transpartisan issue because it seems like the second something gets advocated by a particular administration, it quickly becomes a partisan issue as one side or the other gets new marching orders. Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 18:36
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Sadly, encouraging anyone to Try Improving Anything™ is going to be breathlessly reframed by Tucker Carlson as simultaneously Marxism and Nazism and result in a string of public shootings. Any attempt to offer help to people who need help affording better food will be called communism and result in senators throwing open the doors of the Capitol to armed insurrectionists. For clarity, I'm not saying we shouldn't consider talking about what might be possible to accomplish, only that it's worth considering how to wrangle the Tea Party / Facebook Weirdo crowd that has turned into such a major source of stochastic terror as of late edit, basically, ^ yeah same Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 18:40
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gohuskies posted:The idea that it's impossible for most Americans to lose fat is nonsense. I think it would be odd for many goons to support strict COVID measures and police powers in so many realms but then when it comes to a major and controllable risk factor like obesity (that also connects to so many other bad health outcomes) just throw up our hands and say, "well there's nothing to be done about it!" If we think that Joe Biden should be forcing people to wear masks, get vaccinated, go to work and school remotely, close restaurants, etc, why shouldn't we also think that Joe Biden should be forcing people to not be obese anymore? What do you propose be done about obesity?
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Jan 24, 2022 18:50
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It is unhealthy and unsustainable but fast food serves an important role in our society that has to be addressed first. I realize someone is going to butt in and say they can do food prep for an entire week with nothing but some Tupperware, a slow cooker and 5.99 worth of ingredients. But most people aren't doing that and until you address why you're never going to fix the issue. It comes down to a combination of know how, access, addiction, and mental health.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:52
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Willa Rogers posted:Good god, the hyperbole in response to the suggestion that the government sponsor a public-health campaign about obesity as they do about vaccines & masking is off the rails. That was in response to Joe Biden "forcing people not to be obese" in a similar way to forcing people to wear masks/stay home/etc, which is a very direct set of regulations to address an issue that has a very clear and immediate cause and effect, as opposed to broader cultural changes. Mellow Seas posted:For adults, I think we should focus on actual medical intervention (not what doctors usually do, which is just tell people stuff they already know), overall health (with less emphasis on BMI) and mental well-being. A big part of it is absolutely about access, which, bringing it back to where the conversation started, is probably a big part of why so many younger Americans are suffering from covid in comparison to other parts of the world. There are so many things that Americans can't see to that would make them healthier and happier. I know so many people who have been completely pulped by the combination working multiple time jobs, dealing with a gaggle of long-term medical issues, suffering from a chronic lack of sleep, having no personal time, etc. It's absolutely heartbreaking.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:52
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I was a big fan of the soda tax here in Chicago. Cigarette taxes seem to be effective in combating smoking rates, seems like taxation of sugar drinks would reduce consumption similarly. It is a regressive tax and should be structured in a way to support the impoverished, but I don’t know what else could be done. Sugar soda is super unhealthy and should be an occasional treat, not the default beverage for a meal. I remember a coworker telling me that she had to drive to Indiana to buy soda for her family now because of the soda tax and all I could think was “I don’t think the soda tax is the problem here”. Anyways, I only have a cursory understanding of the issue so there may be factors I haven’t considered but using taxes & subsidies to promote healthy food choices seems like a viable option.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:54
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Mendrian posted:It is unhealthy and unsustainable but fast food serves an important role in our society that has to be addressed first.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:54
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Mendrian posted:It comes down to a combination of know how, access, addiction, and mental health. the know-how part is enormous. Culinary knowledge is not broadly taught at schools and, as a society, we just sorta expect that this is knowledge that'll be passed down from parents to children and/or something that people will learn of their own accord. We're failing our society by making those assumptions.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:55
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Yeah, you can't really expect children being raised by parents that both have to work full-time jobs (or multiple part-time jobs, as often is the case) to get any of that stuff, and hell, it's likely the parents don't have that knowledge in the first place. Kids really need to be learning how to adult from school since their parents' have to spend 90% of their time slaving to capital. Hell, I remember a single food preparation lesson from high school and it was "here's how to make an Orange Julius at home." In fairness, it was delicious.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:02
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Professor Beetus posted:Yeah, you can't really expect children being raised by parents that both have to work full-time jobs (or multiple part-time jobs, as often is the case) to get any of that stuff, and hell, it's likely the parents don't have that knowledge in the first place. Kids really need to be learning how to adult from school since their parents' have to spend 90% of their time slaving to capital. Hell, I remember a single food preparation lesson from high school and it was "here's how to make an Orange Julius at home." In fairness, it was delicious. Avatar and post  I'm still interested in what that poster would like be done by obesity. I see a lot of people talking about personal behavioral changes as if the entire society just decided to get fatter in lockstep over time.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:05
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Riptor posted:the know-how part is enormous. Culinary knowledge is not broadly taught at schools and, as a society, we just sorta expect that this is knowledge that'll be passed down from parents to children and/or something that people will learn of their own accord. We're failing our society by making those assumptions. Yes, great point. Home Ec should be mandatory and taught every year in high school. It’s a fun and easy class with the potential for life long benefits.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:07
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Riptor posted:the know-how part is enormous. Culinary knowledge is not broadly taught at schools and, as a society, we just sorta expect that this is knowledge that'll be passed down from parents to children and/or something that people will learn of their own accord. We're failing our society by making those assumptions. Personally I had to learn from the internet because I come from a multigenerational family of loving awful cooks who didn’t know what to do with vegetables other than steam them to the point of being a soggy mess. That takes time and effort and a willingness to make mistakes and suffer the cost of the mistake. Which is why I won’t vilify fast food as a concept but more of the types of fast food. You ever see a convenience store in Asia on YouTube? There are loads of quality, ready-made food that is decently calorie balanced and would actually keep people feeling full. Compare that to the 7-11 in the US or Tesco in the UK and it’s all pumped with addictive sugars and garbage that are high calorie yet not satisfying as if it was engineered to get you to eat more of it. So you have a society that is susceptible to worse outcomes of this airborne virus yet the government won’t do a thing to reduce/resolve either. Jaxyon posted:Avatar and post While there is some “personal behavioral changes” that would help, that language falls on its face when capital designs food to be as cheap and addicting as possible and then saturates the market with terrible poo poo plus methods that psychologically attack human behavior. virtualboyCOLOR fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 19:09
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:I was a big fan of the soda tax here in Chicago. Cigarette taxes seem to be effective in combating smoking rates, seems like taxation of sugar drinks would reduce consumption similarly. It is a regressive tax and should be structured in a way to support the impoverished, but I don’t know what else could be done. Sugar soda is super unhealthy and should be an occasional treat, not the default beverage for a meal. The chicago pop tax calculated the tax by liquid ounces, so cheap drinks ended up being taxed at a higher rate than more expensive ones. Oh, and the tax included drinks without sugar, like all the diet drinks. But not starbucks style sugared drinks, those were left untaxed. Unless they were pre packaged, then they were taxed. Oh, and the implementation got messed up because stores like walgreens were taxing Lacroix, which wasn't supposed to be taxed. And that doesn't get into the issue with refills, or ice.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:20
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mastershakeman posted:The chicago pop tax calculated the tax by liquid ounces, so cheap drinks ended up being taxed at a higher rate than more expensive ones. Oh, and the tax included drinks without sugar, like all the diet drinks. But not starbucks style sugared drinks, those were left untaxed. Unless they were pre packaged, then they were taxed. So they needed to iron the kinks out, no biggie. I still think it—and things of those nature—are the most realistic way to curtail obesity in the US. Maybe if insurance covered personal training sessions too, idk. Clearly, the path we’re on isn’t working
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Jan 24, 2022 19:27
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BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:So they needed to iron the kinks out, no biggie. I still think it—and things of those nature—are the most realistic way to curtail obesity in the US. Maybe if insurance covered personal training sessions too, idk. I get the feeling you still think that obesity is something that can be targetted via personal behavior.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:32
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Jaxyon posted:I'm still interested in what that poster would like be done by obesity. I see a lot of people talking about personal behavioral changes as if the entire society just decided to get fatter in lockstep over time. Am I "that poster" you're referencing, or are you talking about someone else? It's not what I "would like to be done by obesity" <sic> but rather a suggestion that public-health messages convey the dangers of covid that are exacerbated by obesity. The responses itt indicate that it would set off a new epidemic of distressing rhetoric & hyperbole.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:40
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Potato Salad posted:Sadly, encouraging anyone to Try Improving Anything™ is going to be breathlessly reframed by Tucker Carlson as simultaneously Marxism and Nazism and result in a string of public shootings. And yes, that would be a First Amendment violation. But then we would also have to acknowledge that the Constitution, as it's written, isn't up to the task of dealing with the fact that a solid 25-30% of our country's population do not believe in objective reality anymore.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:42
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So after getting the booster I was feeling crappy for a few days, as expected. But then it just kept going. Got tested and showing positive. Mostly just a lot of coughing and feeling more tired, thankfully nothing debilitating. Barely left the house in two years, but as infectious as this variant is who knows where it came from. Pretty frustrating, but what can you do? I'm wondering now if I should get another booster once this clears up. If I started showing symptoms that day, presumably that means I was already infected a few days prior, so I don't know if the booster can be effective in that situation.
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Jan 24, 2022 20:02
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Riptor posted:the know-how part is enormous. Culinary knowledge is not broadly taught at schools and, as a society, we just sorta expect that this is knowledge that'll be passed down from parents to children and/or something that people will learn of their own accord. We're failing our society by making those assumptions. I'd be curious to know how many folks here were taught in school how to cook and if what they were taught wound up being healthy. I wanna say that there was some sort of optional class in my high school but I never took it. Even with modern conveniences it still takes time and money for someone to experiment, after all. Resources that wouldn't be as big of an issue in a high school setting.
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Jan 24, 2022 20:07
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Willa Rogers posted:Am I "that poster" you're referencing, or are you talking about someone else? It's not what I "would like to be done by obesity" <sic> but rather a suggestion that public-health messages convey the dangers of covid that are exacerbated by obesity. Na gohuskies is the one I meant.
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Jan 24, 2022 20:13
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Jaxyon posted:Avatar and post Willa Rogers posted:Am I "that poster" you're referencing, or are you talking about someone else? It's not what I "would like to be done by obesity" <sic> but rather a suggestion that public-health messages convey the dangers of covid that are exacerbated by obesity. I believe I am "that poster". Yes, I completely agree that an actually effective public health campaign to reduce obesity in America would be very difficult. I believe most people can lose fat with personal behavior changes, but I think the last couple years have made it crystal clear how many Americans don't care about making personal behavior changes to improve their health, as if past obesity/health/nutrition campaigns already didn't make that clear. My point is perhaps glib, but many posters in these thread don't hesitate to say that the federal government should undertake all sorts of initiatives to stop COVID that are arguably just as infeasible, difficult, or downright impossible. How do we get anti-vaxxers vaccinated and anti-maskers masked? How do we rebuild every public building in the country to improve air circulation? How do we make remote education actually work well for students if schools have to close? How do we relieve our overburdened health care workforce and system? All of these questions are difficult just like "how do we reduce obesity", yet many folks think Biden should just step up and solve them - he should issue an order and if the Supreme Court says he can't, then we should ignore them or it's fine because a bunch of the positive impact will have already happened. But when it's obesity though, we get all sorts of explanations of why it can't be done, and I think that's odd.
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Jan 24, 2022 20:19
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BobTheJanitor posted:So after getting the booster I was feeling crappy for a few days, as expected. But then it just kept going. Got tested and showing positive. Mostly just a lot of coughing and feeling more tired, thankfully nothing debilitating. Barely left the house in two years, but as infectious as this variant is who knows where it came from. Pretty frustrating, but what can you do? I'm wondering now if I should get another booster once this clears up. If I started showing symptoms that day, presumably that means I was already infected a few days prior, so I don't know if the booster can be effective in that situation. No you should not get a second booster. What in the world?
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Jan 24, 2022 20:22
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gohuskies posted:I believe I am "that poster". Yes, I completely agree that an actually effective public health campaign to reduce obesity in America would be very difficult. I believe most people can lose fat with personal behavior changes, but I think the last couple years have made it crystal clear how many Americans don't care about making personal behavior changes to improve their health, as if past obesity/health/nutrition campaigns already didn't make that clear. I don't think Biden could "just do" any of that, but I do think the federal government should take all sorts of initiatives to help fat people. Mental health care should be freely accessible and normalized, for example, to help prevent harmful behavioral cycles, as well as physical health care (e.g., how many people have untreated apnea?). There should be a massive increase in the minimum wage, along with a major effort to make housing more affordable, and regulations set in place to make sure that employment is less precarious. A push towards more walkable communities would also help - more public transit, at the very least, might help to make people less reliant on automobiles. The best thing we could do is give people the ability (i.e., time and money) to take care of themselves.
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Jan 24, 2022 20:46
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