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Unlucky7 posted:I thought the Mothercrystal was less the planet's energy and more Hydalyne stockpiling ether for this exact situation. That’s how I understood it. Still funny though
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Jan 24, 2022 21:41
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The scions have split up so we can have a new main cast, they'll probably still be a part of the story but it gives some space for new characters. The two scions that basically say "I've got something lined up but I'll be done quick" are G'Raha and Estinien and they're both the newest ones. ShB and EW had to make space for the entire cast and in my opinion EW kind of collapsed trying to fit a story arc for each and every character into it and they still barely managed to find anything for Y'Shtola, so they just needed some room at this point. They'll still be a part of it but they don't need to write a reason for them to be there for every step anymore.
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Jan 24, 2022 21:41
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The Scions form three natural pairs: Thancred and Urianger, G'raha and Krile, the twins, and then two loners in Y'shtola and Estinien. They're all splitting off and going different places so I'm guessing the 6.x series will be us going with those pairs to wherever they've gone, and when we get to the dungeon at the end of an arc another one will show up and bam there's your trust Edit: turn Alisaie into a Dark Knight and each of those pairs will be Tank Healer too FuturePastNow fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 21:48
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Considering that apparently what, 75%? of the planet's souls or whatever were wrapped up in Zodiark, plus a certain skim off the top that went to the Death Egg Zone, it seems like even if we burned off a fraction we'd still be coming out ahead on the bargain. Life and natural processes seems to channel and generate aether on its own anyway, or at least the Ancients apparently did?
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Jan 24, 2022 21:48
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Nessus posted:Considering that apparently what, 75%? of the planet's souls or whatever were wrapped up in Zodiark, plus a certain skim off the top that went to the Death Egg Zone, it seems like even if we burned off a fraction we'd still be coming out ahead on the bargain. I've actually been wondering about this. With three-quarters of the Ancient population suddenly falling into the Lifestream, presumably to rejoin the cycle of reincarnation, are we going to start seeing some intensely Aether-dense people being born in the next few generations? Like, full ancient souls being reincarnated into regular Source-inhabitant bodies?
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Jan 24, 2022 21:57
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DanielCross posted:I've actually been wondering about this. With three-quarters of the Ancient population suddenly falling into the Lifestream, presumably to rejoin the cycle of reincarnation, are we going to start seeing some intensely Aether-dense people being born in the next few generations? Like, full ancient souls being reincarnated into regular Source-inhabitant bodies? I'm curious about whether or not we're going to see kids who can use creation magic in however many generations it takes for them to cycle back in. I mean, it seemed to be an inborn trait for Ascians, or at least something that came naturally to them.
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Jan 24, 2022 22:05
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It's probably something they had to learn, just like the children would learn a synthesis method similar to our synthesis. Even then, their bodies won't have the aether that the ancients did, so you probably won't see anyone willing items into existence on a whim.
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Jan 24, 2022 22:06
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cheetah7071 posted:One of the rare weaknesses of ShB was that the majority of the world-saving in the first was done by people from the source. I'd prefer, if we head off to Meracydia, that we get a good chunk of our party as Meracydians e: Also I gather the problems were the fault of Ascians and the First would not have been at meaningful risk of a Flood of Light if it wasn't for the Ascians dicking around and offending the Great Serpent.
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Jan 24, 2022 22:23
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Even then, their bodies won't have the aether that the ancients did, so you probably won't see anyone willing items into existence on a whim. Being in a bite-sized body didn't stifle Emet-Selch so much that he couldn't pop a city into existence on a whim.
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Jan 24, 2022 22:30
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Yeah, it's the soul that determines aether reserves, not the body. So whenever those Ancient souls start reincarnating, things are gonna get...weird.
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Jan 24, 2022 22:31
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There's more to it than that. We're 8/14th complete, and people on the first aren't noticeably weaker in any real sense. And it's not like the typical Eorzean is half as strong as Emet-Selch when it comes to aether manipulation and use.
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Jan 24, 2022 22:34
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I've sort of looked at soul completeness as sort of abstract power levels, like wings in Granblue.
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Jan 24, 2022 22:36
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DanielCross posted:I've actually been wondering about this. With three-quarters of the Ancient population suddenly falling into the Lifestream, presumably to rejoin the cycle of reincarnation, are we going to start seeing some intensely Aether-dense people being born in the next few generations? Like, full ancient souls being reincarnated into regular Source-inhabitant bodies? iirc one of the Studium quests explicitly mentions that the Lifestream is going loving bonkers right now
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Jan 24, 2022 22:53
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Doublestep posted:iirc one of the Studium quests explicitly mentions that the Lifestream is going loving bonkers right now The fishing plot is "we hosed with the planet's aether, and poo poo's going weird".
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Jan 24, 2022 22:57
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But FSH Studium quests also say there's a great influx of aether from Moon after Zodiark's defeat, so I guess we shouldn't be very bothered by burning mothercrystal.
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Jan 24, 2022 23:05
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Dwesa posted:But FSH Studium quests also say there's a great influx of aether from Moon after Zodiark's defeat, so I guess we shouldn't be very bothered by burning mothercrystal.
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Jan 24, 2022 23:34
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DanielCross posted:I've actually been wondering about this. With three-quarters of the Ancient population suddenly falling into the Lifestream, presumably to rejoin the cycle of reincarnation, are we going to start seeing some intensely Aether-dense people being born in the next few generations? Like, full ancient souls being reincarnated into regular Source-inhabitant bodies? This would depend how Sundering affected Zodiark. He was only 7/14 complete when Fancy Daniel killed him - did that mean that he had half as many souls as he did before or that each soul was at half strength? I think it's probably the latter. Possibly each of the remaining 1/14s also popped when the main body went and returned to their respective shard's lifestream?
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Jan 24, 2022 23:40
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given that hythlodaeus comes back full and proper at the end I'm gonna assume it's "half the total people" and not "half of every single person"
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Jan 25, 2022 00:05
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Yeah, I can't imagine 8/14ths of Hythlodaeus would be able to use creation magic, which is what leads me to believe that full Ancient souls were released.
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Jan 25, 2022 00:08
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It wouldn’t even be 8/14s of Hythlodeaus, it would be 7/14. The only two characters who have 8/14s of a soul are the WoL, because Ardbert willingly fused with them, and G’raha, because he lived through the 8th Umbral Calamity and then his soul that did did a fusion dance with the soul that didn’t.
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Jan 25, 2022 00:13
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It's 1/14 as a baseline, plus seven rejoinings to make 8/14, then +1 Ardbert makes WoL 9/14, right?
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Jan 25, 2022 00:19
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Dwesa posted:But FSH Studium quests also say there's a great influx of aether from Moon after Zodiark's defeat, so I guess we shouldn't be very bothered by burning mothercrystal. It's that the aether cycles/tides/whatever are out of whack because without Zodiark's influence, they're beginning to revert back to how they were before big Z's summoning, which is disrupting the sea life.
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Jan 25, 2022 00:22
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DanielCross posted:It's 1/14 as a baseline, plus seven rejoinings to make 8/14, then +1 Ardbert makes WoL 9/14, right? What happens when you add Kurt Angle to the mix?
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Jan 25, 2022 00:23
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the_steve posted:It's that the aether cycles/tides/whatever are out of whack because without Zodiark's influence, they're beginning to revert back to how they were before big Z's summoning, which is disrupting the sea life.
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Jan 25, 2022 00:26
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Cleretic posted:What happens when you add Kurt Angle to the mix?
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Jan 25, 2022 00:26
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Dwesa posted:But FSH Studium quests also say there's a great influx of aether from Moon after Zodiark's defeat, so I guess we shouldn't be very bothered by burning mothercrystal. that's why the lifestream is going wonky, another studium quest comments on it as well. the planets too alive cloud, it's absolutely hosed up on vintage 420% proof ancient aether
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Jan 25, 2022 00:26
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Do the souls fuse back to their shard or go back to the life stream? If you live through a Calamity, is your aether denser, or are only souls born after the Calamity denser?
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Jan 25, 2022 00:27
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Kazy posted:Do the souls fuse back to their shard or go back to the life stream? If you live through a Calamity, is your aether denser, or are only souls born after the Calamity denser?
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Jan 25, 2022 00:29
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Nessus posted:I believe it happens to everyone who lives through a Calamity, although that usually isn't a ton of people for obvious, Calamity-related reasons. Most residents of the Source are 7/14, we and G'raha are 8/14 due to freak circumstances. Did one of the rejoinings not count? Like, unless we're not counting the Source as 1 for some reason, we should be at 8 after seven Calamities, plus an extra 1 for WoL and G'raha.
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Jan 25, 2022 00:32
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DanielCross posted:Did one of the rejoinings not count? Like, unless we're not counting the Source as 1 for some reason, we should be at 8 after seven Calamities, plus an extra 1 for WoL and G'raha. This is correct. General populace is 8/14ths joined, and WoL & G'raha are 9/14ths thanks to Ardbert and time travelling after the 8th calamity. I think people are prone to either forgetting to start counting the Source from 1 not 0, or are erroneously subtracting the Void's failure when it's already not included in the 7 umbral calamites.
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Jan 25, 2022 00:49
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PoorWeather posted:Well, I wrote that in response to you saying that the Ancients had a kind of societal immaturity when it came to understanding suffering that led to them wanting to do the sacrifices in the first place, which the Sundering ultimately needed to 'correct'. Or in other words, though it wasn't directly the reason it was destroyed, it was the reason for the reason. I definitely wouldn't call it "immaturity" (if I did I was wrong to do so, though I don't think I did). I actually think that the main element specifically resulting in the tragedy was their power. Their unfamiliarity with things like "involuntary mortality" certainly exacerbated the situation and would have made Venat's goal much harder (which basically required persuading enough people to prevent the successful summoning of Zodiark, so she basically had to persuade a threshold of people within a limited time), but it's easy to imagine regular humans doing the same thing if they had the power to do so. Like if a country had the ability to resurrect half its people who died at the cost of a bunch of other random countries, it's definitely conceivable that could happen. And it could certainly happen on an individual level (like if you handed someone whose loved one died a "resurrect them at the cost of some other person" button). So I don't think anything about the situation that occurs in the game is meant to be viewed as a just or fair outcome (and the game itself seems pretty clear that you're not supposed to think that the Ancients were just incompatible with existing or something). It's basically an unfortunate outcome of a society having a massive amount of power (used to form a separate god-like entity formed from the desires accompanying its summoning, so it's not like you can persuade it to change) and a will to use it in bad ways that can't really be directly confronted. Their situation is one that can't really be reproduced in the real world. It's specifically because the Ancients had the power to reject death - but only at great cost to other life - that there was such a major problem. It was a society where mortality was almost entirely voluntary, but then suddenly had involuntary mortality thrust upon it (while retaining the ability to undo it at the cost of probably ending all life in the future). If you remove power from the equation, there won't be the same issue (because they wouldn't have access to the "resurrect loved ones at the cost of all other life" button). Regarding the whole "understanding suffering" element, it seems to me that doing so is inherently dependent upon there being some history of it to draw from. A mortal race will at least come to understand mortality (and its accompanying suffering) through that lens and perhaps develop coping mechanisms and the ability to derive aid from others who have experienced the same thing (I mean, this is the whole idea behind support groups - you can learn from others who have experienced similar things). And over time we learn how to better treat people who experience painful things, because human psychology is difficult and complex and there's more to it than just having empathy. So it seems to make perfect sense that a society oblivious to a certain form of pain would have a problem if it suddenly experienced that pain on a massive scale. Everyone would be new to it. They'd have no history or experience with which to understand how to heal from it, leading to bad decisions. And the idea that you can heal from something doesn't mean that experiencing it was somehow good and won't leave permanent scars that make your life worse. There are many ways to react to pain that not only don't help, but make things even worse. So even if healing isn't possible, simply "mitigating the pain" usually is. But if everyone in your society has no experience with it and is suddenly subjected to it, you have nowhere to turn to. There's no societal infrastructure for dealing with a whole range of psychological issues. It's basically taking a society with immense magical powers and traumatizing them, but with no tools to deal with that trauma. With the Ancients specifically, the situation is meant to be a tragedy. It would have been ideal if their society was simply never subjected to such a horrible cataclysm. Just like it'd be ideal if people in our world never had to experience (traumatic thing). But think of how awful it'd be if, in a world that had never experienced (traumatic thing), suddenly most of the population experienced it. Everything we know about how to help people who have experienced a particular form of trauma wouldn't exist. So given a choice between "the current reality where virtually everyone has been suddenly thrust into a traumatic situation" and "an alternate reality where traumatic situations occasionally happen to people in the course of regular life," there aren't any good options. No one is really at fault in either scenario. But Venat can look at the direction her world is heading and then look at the world the WoL describes to her and reasonably make the choice that the latter has more hope for a better future (and on a kind of complicated ethical level, after meeting the future-traveling WoL she's also having to account for all those future lives when making her decision - it suddenly becomes a trolley problem of sorts). All of this being said, after thinking about this, I don't really agree with the posters who think this exact kind of thing was inevitable. I think that a different sort of cataclysm that wasn't so monumental in scope could have prompted a much more reasonable response. The specific response prompted by the Final Days only occurred because of its sudden magnitude. If it was more limited in scope, you wouldn't have as many people willing to push the "create a deity with human sacrifice" button. And I think that the Ancients absolutely have the capacity to change just like anyone else. The aether/dynamis stuff just makes it harder for them (my read on it is that it it makes their emotional state a lot more inelastic). After all, Venat had a decent-sized faction behind her. Given more time, it probably could have been grown further.
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Jan 25, 2022 01:15
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DanielCross posted:I've actually been wondering about this. With three-quarters of the Ancient population suddenly falling into the Lifestream, presumably to rejoin the cycle of reincarnation, are we going to start seeing some intensely Aether-dense people being born in the next few generations? Like, full ancient souls being reincarnated into regular Source-inhabitant bodies? I totally suspect that 7.0 is gonna be ff7 style "Wow lets burn some of this new lifestream aether. Oops, lifestream is hosed" as a plot point. Or ff7 style sephiroth ubermenchsen loving poo poo up. Or both.
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Jan 25, 2022 01:21
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Cleretic posted:What happens when you add Kurt Angle to the mix? I want you to know I appreciate this
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Jan 25, 2022 01:22
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FuturePastNow posted:I wonder if the Allagans ever attempted a moon landing? There's a wrecked Allagan spacecraft up there but it was an automated thing launched from Dalamud 5 years ago. Perhaps an Ascian covertly shut down that part of their space program. I find it hard to believe they didn't go to the moon. They built a drat moon from scratch, traveling to the regular moon is a walk in the park comparatively.
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Jan 25, 2022 01:46
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Machai posted:I find it hard to believe they didn't go to the moon. They built a drat moon from scratch, traveling to the regular moon is a walk in the park comparatively. It seems like they didn't but you can probably chalk that up to a rare situation where the Ascians and Hydelyn both were working to keep them from doing it.
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Jan 25, 2022 01:48
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Mayne the WoL of that time stopped them and they built Dalamud as like a "gently caress you I'll make my own moon! With blackjack! And dragons!"
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Jan 25, 2022 02:26
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Sometimes I wonder how other parts the world that weren't aware of what was happening in Eorzea reacted to one of the moons falling from the sky one day?
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Jan 25, 2022 04:43
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Rhonne posted:Sometimes I wonder how other parts the world that weren't aware of what was happening in Eorzea reacted to one of the moons falling from the sky one day? I still want to find out if the entire world uses the Astral/Umbral Era system of dating. ...especially if it turns out Dalmasca's looking at Eorzea and going 'oh, yeah, the Garleans dropping a dragon on you that ran amok for about ten minutes must've been HORRIBLE, definitely worth calling it an earth-shaking Calamity and resetting the calendar, by the way have you seen the Bozjan capital?'
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Jan 25, 2022 04:48
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If there was a nation of horse people they would be up in the thousands of Astral eras because every time they see an ant counts as a calamity.
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Jan 25, 2022 05:04
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Cleretic posted:I still want to find out if the entire world uses the Astral/Umbral Era system of dating. All calamities we know of are centered on Eorzea (or silvertear/more donuts more precisely). Other calamities might have been more widespread and destructive than the 7th, but there's probably a reason the lake is called "the source" on the first. In fact the eras seem to be specific to Eorzea, that's what the voice over cutscene seemed to say even.
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Jan 25, 2022 05:11
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