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Danann posted:The manufacturing consent industry is still working very well to drum jingoism, just look at what other goons in other forums say about China and Russia (nevermind reddit). It has been pretty crazy watching them manufacture consent for a war they don't even want.
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Jan 26, 2022 22:45
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:It has been pretty crazy watching them manufacture consent for a war they don't even want.
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Jan 27, 2022 00:32
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Does either party even have the energy to start a war anymore? We're so far past the cold war and 9/11 that there's little ideological energy for one. The Trump and Biden admins have just been about looting and grifting while doing as little as possible. Plus both party leaderships are so old that half of them can't think straight. i'm the guy who thinks "can't think straight" and "starting a war" are mutually exclusive
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Jan 27, 2022 00:36
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Fitzy Fitz posted:Does either party even have the energy to start a war anymore? We're so far past the cold war and 9/11 that there's little ideological energy for one. The Trump and Biden admins have just been about looting and grifting while doing as little as possible. Plus both party leaderships are so old that half of them can't think straight. https://twitter.com/patrickwintour/status/1486245779182399488
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Jan 27, 2022 06:33
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I'm all for fighting Russian money as long as you don't touch my Russian money
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Jan 27, 2022 07:22
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Lol
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Jan 27, 2022 07:30
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MLSM posted:https://twitter.com/ChrisLynnHedges/status/1483594957080383494?s=20
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Jan 27, 2022 08:03
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quote:The Democratic Party will not push through the kind of radical New Deal reforms that in the 1930s staved off fascism and communism.
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Jan 27, 2022 08:04
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:so is chris hedges an anticommunist or what https://truthout.org/articles/chris-hedges-this-country-needs-a-few-good-communists/ probably some flavor of "anti-authoritarian leftist"
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Jan 27, 2022 08:06
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:so is chris hedges an anticommunist or what He ends with this quote:Class struggle defines most of human history. Marx got this right. It is not a new story. The rich, throughout history, have found ways to subjugate and re-subjugate the masses. And the masses, throughout history, have cyclically awoken to throw off their chains. I don't think an anticommunist would say "Marx got this right"
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Jan 27, 2022 08:11
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WampaLord posted:I don't think an anticommunist would say "Marx got this right" he seems to think that people are best served by a strong capitalist class and a strong working class. a situation where neither has the upper hand. where capitalism can co-exist with a working class that is able to force demands of it. this is, of course, liberal nonsense, and chris is stupid to think this
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Jan 27, 2022 08:16
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yeah he seems to use unions as a healthy solution instead of a tourniquet keeping us from immediate serfdom. like a kind of marxist that thinks germany's corporate board structure really has a lot goin' for it
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Jan 27, 2022 08:19
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If unions are so good what the gently caress happened to them? Liberals think history is an unfortunate fluke that probably won't happen again given the exact same circumstances.
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Jan 27, 2022 08:22
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:there is a pretty clear implication there that he thinks Marx got a lot of other stuff wrong. imo fair enough, I just think it's rare to see "Marx was right" in political commentary
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Jan 27, 2022 08:24
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clearly marx was right that history is class struggle. what he got wrong was in proposing that working people should try to win
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Jan 27, 2022 08:29
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WampaLord posted:fair enough, I just think it's rare to see "Marx was right" in political commentary I don't think chris hedges is a reactionary, but he's doing basically the same thing: "see, I'm hip, marx was right about one or two things, now let's do all this other poo poo that definitely would have had marx saying 'no don't do that it will never work you idiot, you loving moron'"
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Jan 27, 2022 08:37
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history is a history of class struggle where workers attempt to wrest just enough power from the owners until the owners relent and share power harmoniously forever 
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Jan 27, 2022 08:38
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To be a real anticommunist you actually have to go out of your way to denounce it, which afaik Chris Hedges has never done. That might sound trivial, but it isn't.
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Jan 27, 2022 11:03
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A Buttery Pastry posted:They're starting a war - a War on Money Laundering: Aren't the worst shock therapy kleptocrats Chicago school looters like Soros
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Jan 27, 2022 12:49
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:so is chris hedges an anticommunist or what No. He's an anti-authoritarian. I haven't read his recent books, but War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning and Empire of Illusion are very good. Have you read anything he has written other than this article?
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Jan 27, 2022 12:50
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I don't see the problem with recognizing that a goal of the new deal policies was to give some slack to the working class in order to stave off communism.
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Jan 27, 2022 13:36
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cagliostr0 posted:Aren't the worst shock therapy kleptocrats Chicago school looters like Soros No they are among the good ones.
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Jan 27, 2022 13:44
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cagliostr0 posted:Aren't the worst shock therapy kleptocrats Chicago school looters like Soros soros owned the bank of england so he is good actrually
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Jan 27, 2022 13:53
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:there is a pretty clear implication there that he thinks Marx got a lot of other stuff wrong. imo Yes but everyone thinks that. Unless you think the glorious revolution and socialism is happening Any Day Now Marx clearly got a few things wrong. Yes I've heard of Fabian, why do you ask?
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Jan 27, 2022 13:59
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Americans hates being told we what to do but love telling people what to do. A land of contrasts. Vote.
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Jan 27, 2022 15:26
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30.5 Days posted:If unions are so good what the gently caress happened to them? Liberals think history is an unfortunate fluke that probably won't happen again given the exact same circumstances. Theyre fygm organizations that fight over the table scraps on the floor
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Jan 27, 2022 15:28
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:it's not uncommon. you'll even get conservatives from time to time, who claim that marx was right about some narrow little thing in a specific set of circumstances, then leverage that claim as a rhetorical device to justify whatever reactionary garbage they've got cooking. The first thing I ever read about Marxism was this lovely short little intro book that got a lot of details wrong and included a long final chapter about how everything you just read is actually dumb and history has proven it wrong because capitalism gave us treats and everyone is very happy now (it was either written in the 90s or early 00s). Anyway, jokes on that guy because even with his lovely description of Marxism it was the first time the world was explained to me in a way that made sense and by the time I got to that final chapter I was like "lmao eat poo poo revisionist, I'm gonna read the man himself now".
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Jan 27, 2022 16:21
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is pepsi ok posted:The first thing I ever read about Marxism was this lovely short little intro book that got a lot of details wrong and included a long final chapter about how everything you just read is actually dumb and history has proven it wrong because capitalism gave us treats and everyone is very happy now (it was either written in the 90s or early 00s). This is why capitalist propagandists just pretend Marxism doesn't exist.
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Jan 27, 2022 16:23
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:This is why capitalist propagandists just pretend Marxism doesn't exist. Or pretend it's something it's not. If you're accurately describing it you've already hosed up
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Jan 27, 2022 16:45
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This thread is like an advent calendar, but instead of bits of chocolate, it's the promise of weeping and teeth-gnashing to come when the worst people in the world can't understand why nobody wants to support a party full of loving Karens.
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Jan 27, 2022 17:12
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:To be a real anticommunist you actually have to go out of your way to denounce it, which afaik Chris Hedges has never done. That might sound trivial, but it isn't. chris hedges says he thinks marx has the best critique of capital but he doesnt consider himself a marxist or a communist because he doesnt agree with marx's solutions. instead, chris thinks that the only way for the left to win is for an organized labor movement to lead to a political movement outside the electoral system that makes the ruling elite literally cower in fear, but he also thinks that the call to action should be done primarily by appealing to people's sense of morality (lol) something like that anyway. thats what ive synthesized from several different interviews ive seen with him
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Jan 27, 2022 17:13
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he doesnt seem to want to label himself but he's clearly some sort of "anti authoritarian leftist" and not a communist
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Jan 27, 2022 17:14
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In other words, he's a liberal?
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Jan 27, 2022 17:26
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hes a renounced catholic priest that gave up the frock after making himself the enemy of some black kids by ratting them out to the cops and wrecking their lives so they jumped him as revenge but he was like super buff and beat them the gently caress up and while hes punching the black teen whos life he ruined he was like drat the church and america really arent following the example of jesus' life i should leave and try to critique their decadence and failure.
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Jan 27, 2022 17:35
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fart simpson posted:chris hedges says he thinks marx has the best critique of capital but he doesnt consider himself a marxist or a communist because he doesnt agree with marx's solutions. instead, chris thinks that the only way for the left to win is for an organized labor movement to lead to a political movement outside the electoral system that makes the ruling elite literally cower in fear, but he also thinks that the call to action should be done primarily by appealing to people's sense of morality (lol) Yeah Hedges correctly identifies the problems with capitalism and the mindless evil it produces but then he really thinks nonviolence mass protest is the solution lol. Whether he really believes that or is just saying it to avoid getting whacked by an alphabet agency is up in the air I also dont like how hedges uses religious “morality” to identify the evils of capitalism because fascists and reactionaries have a history of doing that and we know how that typically ends His articles and books trashing democrats are still good though
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Jan 27, 2022 17:38
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Real hurthling! posted:hes a renounced catholic priest that gave up the frock after making himself the enemy of some black kids by ratting them out to the cops and wrecking their lives so they jumped him as revenge but he was like super buff and beat them the gently caress up and while hes punching the black teen whos life he ruined he was like drat the church and america really arent following the example of jesus' life i should leave and try to critique their decadence and failure. well tbf he says those black kids he called the cops on were literally in process of raping a 13 year old girl
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Jan 27, 2022 17:41
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yeah true tho hedge's harrassment of them started years earlier over minor poo poo iirc
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Jan 27, 2022 17:43
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MLSM posted:I also dont like how hedges uses religious “morality” to identify the evils of capitalism because fascists and reactionaries have a history of doing that and we know how that typically ends he did several years railing against the threat of christo-fascism, which seems extremely quaint in retrospect living in a post-trump world
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Jan 27, 2022 17:44
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fart simpson posted:chris hedges says he thinks marx has the best critique of capital but he doesnt consider himself a marxist or a communist because he doesnt agree with marx's solutions. instead, chris thinks that the only way for the left to win is for an organized labor movement to lead to a political movement outside the electoral system that makes the ruling elite literally cower in fear, but he also thinks that the call to action should be done primarily by appealing to people's sense of morality (lol) Yeah like most leftists he seems to have unironic belief that a bloodless revolution based around appeals to morality would change things. That the all various powers and lobbyists wouldn't continue their track record of destroying grassroots populists movements like what happened to the Occupy Wall Street movement.
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Jan 27, 2022 17:45
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Real hurthling! posted:yeah true tho hedge's harrassment of them started years earlier over minor poo poo iirc dig up
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Jan 27, 2022 17:48
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