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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:This seems like a very minor thing to die on a hill for. lol, I'm participating in the same convos about it as you & everyone else itt. Why do you use gender-loaded hyperbole such as "melting down" or "dying on a hill" when describing my posts? I'm not saying anything different that anyone else isn't saying, and it's often in milder terms.
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Jan 28, 2022 19:47
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VitalSigns posted:Socialism is when public goods are operated by private capitalists for private profit. The more capitalists profit the more socialism it is. “Socialize the costs, Privatize the profits” has been a saying for a long time. Beto literally lifted his specific line from Bernie, who himself lifted it from a famous NYT article in the 70's. If you are legitimately reading that as him complimenting Greg Abbott for doctrinaire implementation of socialist economic policy in Texas, then that is a very strange. It seems like people are just being obtuse because they don't like Beto. Nobody thought that Bernie Sanders was complimenting the ideological purity of Republicans or banks when he said the same thing. It's such a bizarre thing to claim you can't understand to own Beto, when he is both A) Not here and B) Fully capable of being owned by people online in many other ways.
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Jan 28, 2022 19:48
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yronic heroism posted:Texas Governor candidate running as not a socialist? It’s more common than you think! I mean in the actual race the main thing remains Beto being the guy who said he was gonna go door to door to take your guns. I don't see this registering compared to that. Their best hope was absolutely McConaughey Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:This seems like a very minor thing to die on a hill for. Aren't we all rolling around in the same mud here?
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Jan 28, 2022 19:48
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Devor posted:My opponent, who thinks good thing is a bad thing, is himself that GOOD THING (which he says is a bad thing) Yeah, I get the appeal of trying to use the right wing mangling of the definition of socialist to your advantage but this attempt feels like a mess because it just makes it further.
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Jan 28, 2022 19:49
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:“Socialize the costs, Privatize the profits” has been a saying for a long time. Beto literally lifted his specific line from Bernie, who himself lifted it from a famous NYT article in the 70's. What probably complicates this for you is that there is a non-zero number of (probably more vocal than our numbers would suggest) former bernie supporters that, if given the chance, would at this point tell Bernie to shut the gently caress up too.
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Jan 28, 2022 19:50
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Devor posted:My opponent, who thinks good thing is a bad thing, is himself that GOOD THING (which he says is a bad thing) Yeah, it's not really a good zinger. But, it is obviously not him legitimately arguing that Greg Abbott is a doctrinaire socialist or complimenting him. Willa Rogers posted:lol, I'm participating in the same convos about it as you & everyone else itt. I'm not intending to use gender loaded terms, but I have never heard the term "dying on a hill" considered a sexist term and I can't find a single example on Google either.
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Jan 28, 2022 19:52
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CommieGIR posted:At this point I'm going to agree to disagree and drop it, as I don't see how your claim is true. That's just parting shots. Which part would you like me to support with additional direct evidence? The relative lack of American companies in the Panama Papers, or IRS audit decisionmaking allocation policy?
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Jan 28, 2022 19:53
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Yeah, it's not really a good zinger. But, it is obviously not him legitimately arguing that Greg Abbott is a doctrinaire socialist or complimenting him. I didn't mean the term was gender-loaded; I said that your constant exhortations about my posting being some extreme, and no one else's posting, are. "Melting down" isn't gender-related, either, but when it's used only toward a female poster it certainly comes off as loaded (or dismissive).
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Jan 28, 2022 19:55
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:“Socialize the costs, Privatize the profits” has been a saying for a long time. Beto literally lifted his specific line from Bernie, who himself lifted it from a famous NYT article in the 70's. I don't think that Beto is complimenting Abbott There's two ways to interpret his statement. One way is he thinks socialism is good and is joking that Abbott wants it only for the rich and not for all of us. Although I don't see how that works here, the issue isn't corporate welfare I thought, Abbott isn't "socializing" the losses by having the government pay them. He's just letting companies price gouge individuals, what is socialist about that even as a rhetorical zing. Like at least a bank bailout you can say well it's sorta like the government giving poor people money which isn't technically socialism either but it's something socialists usually support. This is just when the government lets the company screw you to make a buck. The other interpretation is he thinks socialism is bad, and is calling Abbott a socialist to discredit him by associating him with a bad thing. And apparently either doesn't know or doesn't care what socialism is since letting private capitalists enclose the commons and price gouge everyone for necessities in a natural disaster is capitalist as gently caress. I lean toward the latter, but I'd be happy to be shown Beto endorsing socialism by name like Bernie does. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 19:59
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Willa Rogers posted:I didn't say the term was gender-loaded; I said that your constant exhortations about my posting being some extreme, and no one else's posting, are. I didn't use the term melted down, though. And if "dying on a hill" isn't sexist, then why did you specifically say it was "gender-loaded hyperbole." I also don't think Vitalsigns is a female. I'm just not sure what the point of your post was?
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Jan 28, 2022 19:59
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The "melting down" was used in your prior posts toward me (plenty of them, even after I asked you not to continue using it inaccurately). You know this; we've talked about it. If you want, PM me links to other posts in which you've called out others for "melting down." The point of my post was that you tend to use loaded terms when responding to my posts but not to others. eta: I'll take the issue to mods from hereon, since pointing this out to you hasn't been sufficient in getting you to modify your behavior, and seems to only entrench it. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 20:04
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:“Socialize the costs, Privatize the profits” has been a saying for a long time. Beto literally lifted his specific line from Bernie, who himself lifted it from a famous NYT article in the 70's. Pretty sure that Bernie has never referred to corporations as corrupt socialists. What Beto, a self-avowed capitalist, is trying to do here is punch the left and the right at the same time.
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Jan 28, 2022 20:10
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Willa Rogers posted:The "melting down" was used in your prior posts toward me (plenty of them, even after I asked you not to continue using it inaccurately). You know this; we've talked about it. I'm very confused. I did not say you were melting down, I was quoting VitalSigns in my last post and not you, and I don't think the phrase "dying on a hill" has any sexist implications that I was directing at you. Apparently, I have said that to you at some point and it stuck with you. But, I didn't intend it to be something that bothered you that much. I don't see it in search for this thread or in anything I have posted in the last three weeks. quote:Text contains the term 'username' Searching the entire forums, I have used the phrase "melt down" or "meltdown" only once in D&D in the last 2 years. And it was 4 months ago. I have only used the phrase twice in 13 years in D&D. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 20:13
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With some of what eg Bush did it works. Here he is giving government money to his friends, but when you need it he says no that's socialism. How does this argument work for Abbott. Here he is letting his friends price gouge you on contracts for heat when you're freezing to death, but when you want to price gouge people who need your natural gas he says no that's socialism 
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Jan 28, 2022 20:13
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VitalSigns posted:With some of what eg Bush did it works. Here he is giving government money to his friends, but when you need it he says no that's socialism. Maybe he's using the Republican definition that socialism is when bad things happen.
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Jan 28, 2022 20:15
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Even assuming the best of intentions Beto calling Abbott a socialist sends a mixed message. Abbott could just turn around and say "Actually Beto is a socialist" and it would be a billion times more effective for his base.
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Jan 28, 2022 20:18
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Leon and Willa, please take this to PMs, be it among yourselves or with a mod, or report any posts that could be considered to be in violation of rules against personal attacks and gendered insults so we may review the evidence directly. I don't think any offense was meant but I am not all knowing.
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Jan 28, 2022 20:19
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edit: following mod orders
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Jan 28, 2022 20:20
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VitalSigns posted:I don't think that Beto is complimenting Abbott Have you ever considered the Third Way?
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Jan 28, 2022 20:23
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Srice posted:Even assuming the best of intentions Beto calling Abbott a socialist sends a mixed message. Abbott could just turn around and say "Actually Beto is a socialist" and it would be a billion times more effective for his base. Right? There are so many ways to Americanize socialism. Biggest grocery chain in the Midwest is employee owned (whatever that means) but you can point to it and ask, “hy vee is owned by the workers, is that socialist? Because if so sign me up, I love the deli” to “get the man off your back” to “if you work for a plumbing supply company that spends way too much on management,instead of the people who actually do the work? Socialism is for you.” Point socialist critiques at the easy targets—after all its not like those people being targeted are going to vote Republican if they aren’t already. Use material critiques against groups whose politics are aesthetic, and you have very little to lose and a lot to gain, imo.
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Jan 28, 2022 20:26
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VideoGameVet posted:I don’t see it as a negative comment on socialism, more like painting Abbot as a corporate socialist. I initially read it as a negative or at least being used pejoratively but I think your reading is probably correct, twitters awful at conveying nuance
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Jan 28, 2022 20:44
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The only thing that calling Abbot a socialist does is hurt the left. You're never going to convince conservatives of their own hypocrisy, they absolutely do not care at all. You can't "own" people who have no shame.
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Jan 28, 2022 20:46
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The youths clutch their Twitters and TikToks, and furiously type: “Friendship ended with SOCIALISM. Now BETO is my best friend.” yronic heroism fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 20:47
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Maybe I'm cynical, but I can't even think of a political zinger/rhetorical argument that would really motivate or change a significant amount of votes anymore. Outside of just bringing up something horrible the other candidate did and doesn't actually deny, like Roy Moore or Christine O'Donnell. I guess you gotta fill those scheduled tweets with something, though. It feels like a lost of wasted typing just going into the aether. Edit: John Fetterman is a confirmed Goon. Meeting the President, at a disaster site, in the snow, and wearing gray cargo shorts, a hoodie, and slip-on dress shoes. https://twitter.com/PopulismUpdates/status/1487149491643838464 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 20:49
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Maybe I'm cynical, but I can't even think of a political zinger that would really motivate or change a significant amount of votes anymore. Can we just let him take over for Biden
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Jan 28, 2022 20:55
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FlamingLiberal posted:King Bold move suggesting the dude who's even more explictly racist. Or are we doing the conservative thing where someone pretending to be a Big Effective Man is preferable because it addresses our own insecurities?
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Jan 28, 2022 20:57
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Bishyaler posted:Pretty sure that Bernie has never referred to corporations as corrupt socialists. What Beto, a self-avowed capitalist, is trying to do here is punch the left and the right at the same time. The only thing Beto is good for is punching himself in his own dick.
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Jan 28, 2022 20:59
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Had to drive around a lot so figured I would pick up some free masks. 3 Walgreens, two of which just aren't participating, and one CVS. No masks at any, even for sale. Heck of a job, Bidie.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:02
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We've got some breaking 2022 news. It turns out that Chris Brown may actually be a bad person! And all of the fans and sponsors who kept his career alive and kept him out of jail after he beat Rihanna half to death enabled him to drug and rape another woman and she was too afraid to come out for a year because she saw what happened to Rihanna. Also, Diddy apparently lets Chris Brown park a rape yacht at his house so Brown doesn't have to take people back to his house. https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1487152005734932485 quote:Chris Brown accused in lawsuit of drugging and raping a woman in Miami
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Jan 28, 2022 21:05
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Jaxyon posted:Bold move suggesting the dude who's even more explictly racist. I've never heard of the guy so I did a quick Wikipedia and this paragraph was a wild ride quote:In January 2013, while mayor, Fetterman came under fire for allegedly pointing a shotgun at an unarmed black man in Braddock. After hearing what he and others thought was gunfire, Fetterman got in his truck and followed a jogger, Chris Miyares. Fetterman said he believed, he "did the right thing".[26] The incident was given renewed attention when Fetterman announced his campaign to replace retiring U.S. Senator Pat Toomey in 2022, with the jogger's ethnicity igniting questions over the possible discriminatory nature of the event.[27][28] A Republican candidate for Toomey's seat, writer Sean Parnell, tweeted about the incident, and Parnell's attack was retweeted by Donald Trump, Jr. In response to an inquiry launched by The New York Times, Fetterman defended himself and claimed Miyares was running in the direction of an elementary school, and that he made the decision to approach him with the firearm due to the Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting occurring the month prior.[27] Fetterman's campaign also said that when initiated the pursuit, and because the jogger was wearing a black sweatsuit and mask, he did not know the jogger's race or gender at the time of the incident.[27][28] Miyares, who is serving prison time for armed assault and kidnap, said what sounded like gunshots were bottle rockets set off by kids, though Fetterman said no fireworks debris had been found.[27] He added that Fetterman had "done far more good than that one bad act" and, "should not be defined by it," and hoped he would win the senate race.[29][27]
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Jan 28, 2022 21:06
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Jaxyon posted:Bold move suggesting the dude who's even more explictly racist. I'm not as high on Fetterman as most people and think he's a lot of image over substance but lmao at calling him more explicitly racist than Joe who's used his position in government for tough on crime laws. Honestly as you can see from above you're repeating Republican propaganda without even realizing it. Propaganda works on everyone, even you
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Jan 28, 2022 21:07
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christmas boots posted:I've never heard of the guy so I did a quick Wikipedia and this paragraph was a wild ride Thats the incident and its pretty bad even if he has good politics.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:09
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Maybe I'm cynical, but I can't even think of a political zinger/rhetorical argument that would really motivate or change a significant amount of votes anymore. He looks like the rural version of Kingpin from Into the Spider-Verse.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:10
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Terminal autist posted:Thats the incident and its pretty bad even if he has good politics. The wildest parts are: 1) Fetterman thought an unarmed man dressed in a black suit wearing a black mask was running towards a school to shoot some kids, but decided to let out a few practice shots first. 2) The guy actually did end up going to prison for kidnapping and assault and has become a Fetterman supporter.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:11
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Cranappleberry posted:yea sure white collar crime happens mostly on the balance sheet or by controlling the paper money (occasionally by hiding assets, perhaps in trucks, and driving them around to increase the value) and dividing it illegally so it doesn't make for compelling, hard-hitting news as the thrust of a new crime wave committed by a class of ultra predators, spawn of the super predators. But it still hurts more and worse. I wanted to focus on this for a second because it's yet a other way capital fucks the poor. People- including shoplifters or vandals themselves - often justify shoplifting or property damage as "whatever, they're insured against it" and that is true for someone somewhere in the Starbucks or Walmart hierarchy. But being someone who has looked at balance sheets for several box stores, it isn't true for individual locations. Stores and restaurants in chains have under over reports or something like it. Your facilities costs and your shrink are part of that profit calculation. Locations can function at a loss, but not for long, and if your location is in the red it will be closed and all the people you employ will be up in the air. I do not say this again, to justify why property damage is a major crime; in fact, it is a crime of capital because they are insured against these things but they do not share that surety with the people they employ.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:12
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The wildest parts are: Yeah, the second one did it for me. I mean, that he ultimately ended up in prison for an unrelated assault and kidnapping really has no bearing on the incident itself and Fetterman's actions but it's still nuts, as the fact that he still supports the guy 
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Jan 28, 2022 21:17
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Speaking nothing to his political or moral acumen, I just wanted to say that I've met fetterman in real life and the dude is absolutely enormous.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:19
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Lib and let die posted:drat, that sounds cool. All my friends are just like "why not move back to New England and abandon your senile, in-poor-health in-laws to die in Florida alone, we primaried someone and won up here!" and then they just kind of zone out as I regale them with insider tales of how the rhode island state house actually works because my aunt is next in line for the speaker role lmao. It's funny, I get leftist folks from red states who tell me I should leave a state that has some sort of legal protections for trans people and move to Kansas, and that when I don't do so it's my fault it remains red. Edit: removed items that seem to be escalated to mods DeadlyMuffin fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 21:19
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The wildest parts are: My main issue with the whole thing is from my understanding there was a lot of premeditation that went into the situation. The adrenaline rush or whatever should have wore off well before hes rolling up on the dude with a shotgun. The second bit is just wild gonna look into thag sounds funny.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:20
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BBB Status Update: They have made a preliminary list of things they think they can pass. Other than that, nothing has changed in the last month. https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1487157241719529473 One other interesting thing Pelosi said: She wouldn't commit to finishing out a full term if she is re-elected this year.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:21
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