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cinci zoo sniper posted:That's perfectly fine, if you ask me. I may want something else, but it's your tax payments and your votes in elections. lol. from the article: '(Seriously, we checked with native Ukrainian speakers!)' what tripe
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Jan 28, 2022 23:51
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Straight up деревня дураков material.
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Eastern Europe: We must respect the right to a schnitzel of influence
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Jan 28, 2022 23:56
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Xarn posted:I don't see smaller states suddenly finding enough extra people to reach that magical 100M milestone, which leaves them with the nuclear option: let's just every get more nukes. you're right. Countries of 6 million with a GDP of Idaho are never going to be great powers. To remain even viable they'd have to attach themselves to a local hegemon who can keep their independence with an arsenals of 6k nuclear warheads, genetic and chemical weapons, and the ability to deploy millions of soldiers.
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Jan 28, 2022 23:57
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Fuligin posted:lol. from the article: '(Seriously, we checked with native Ukrainian speakers!)' We Even asked someone who knew the language!
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Jan 28, 2022 23:58
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Sinteres posted:So the translation thing is dumb, but I think the underlying point is probably right, where Zelensky thinks the US is presenting an air of inevitability with some of the statements and the embassy withdrawal and everything, which could lead to Russia feeling like the cake's pretty much been baked and they may as well hop on over. That's obviously a simplification, and I don't think the US has quite that level of power with its tone alone, but I do think the US is extremely bad about using overheated language and is pretty lousy at public diplomacy in general, partially because blinkered Manichean thinking really is a problem here, and partially because everything's so dumbed down for domestic consumption. I have a lot more hope for the four party talks with Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany than anything involving the US. When there is a 150,000 soldier army right on your border that has been methodically building up and transferring assets from Siberia and dispatching naval fleets to the Black Sea, your allies are telling you, using the satellite surveillance and sigint that you don't have, that they're about to invade maybe having skepticism about whether or not that army will invade is not conducive to the continued existence of your government given that the same army on your border has been fighting you for 8 years already and has already annexed a chunk of your land. Feels like Zelenskiy is doing a great impression of an ostrich right now to be honest
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Jan 28, 2022 23:58
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FishBulbia posted:you're right. Countries of 6 million with a GDP of Idaho are never going to be great powers. To remain even viable they'd have to attach themselves to a local hegemon who can keep their independence with an arsenals of 6k nuclear warheads, genetic and chemical weapons, and the ability to deploy millions of soldiers. They don't need anything in that order of magnitude, since their goals are purely defensive, and their rival would be able to easily gobble them up piecemeal, but isn't remotely powerful enough to take them on as part of an European block. In the case of Ukraine, their problem is they aren't part of this block.
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Jan 29, 2022 00:02
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HonorableTB posted:When there is a 150,000 soldier army right on your border that has been methodically building up and transferring assets from Siberia and dispatching naval fleets to the Black Sea, your allies are telling you, using the satellite surveillance and sigint that you don't have, that they're about to invade maybe having skepticism about whether or not that army will invade is not conducive to the continued existence of your government given that the same army on your border has been fighting you for 8 years already and has already annexed a chunk of your land. Zelensky is right, though, his job is to keep the country functioning, not to burn everything down in blind panic. Even if he believes the attack is imminent, it is reasonable of him to stay reserved and make preparations quietly.
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Jan 29, 2022 00:05
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HonorableTB posted:When there is a 150,000 soldier army right on your border that has been methodically building up and transferring assets from Siberia and dispatching naval fleets to the Black Sea, your allies are telling you, using the satellite surveillance and sigint that you don't have, that they're about to invade maybe having skepticism about whether or not that army will invade is not conducive to the continued existence of your government given that the same army on your border has been fighting you for 8 years already and has already annexed a chunk of your land. I don't think he's in denial, I think he's trying to reduce tensions as much as possible since he knows his country's the only one on the line if things kick off. It's easy for the US to ramp up the rhetoric from a continent and an ocean away, and maybe Zelensky's facing that sobering reality.
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Jan 29, 2022 00:06
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Sinteres posted:I don't think he's in denial, I think he's trying to reduce tensions as much as possible since he knows his country's the only one on the line if things kick off. It's easy for the US to ramp up the rhetoric from a continent and an ocean away, and maybe Zelensky's facing that sobering reality. Okay, this makes sense to me and I agree with it. Thanks for clarifying your point Edit: steinrokkan posted:Zelensky is right, though, his job is to keep the country functioning, not to burn everything down in blind panic. Even if he believes the attack is imminent, it is reasonable of him to stay reserved and make preparations quietly. Thanks for this comment as well
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Jan 29, 2022 00:08
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Fuligin posted:lol. from the article: '(Seriously, we checked with native Ukrainian speakers!)' One of those native speakers was the author's mother...probably just showed her the google translate and asked what it meant. I do wonder where the heck they got this idea to begin with. That said I would very much like to know her mother's answer to the schnitzel question.
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Jan 29, 2022 00:09
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Zelensky is playing this pretty smart IMO. He’s providing Russia a rhetorical ‘of course we were never going to invade’ off-ramp. At least that’s my read.
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Jan 29, 2022 00:32
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Dreissi posted:Zelensky is playing this pretty smart IMO. He’s providing Russia a rhetorical ‘of course we were never going to invade’ off-ramp. At least that’s my read. https://twitter.com/shaunwalker7/status/1487098196576940036?s=20&t=TD1RimBdgZMljiDbQiE19A
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Jan 29, 2022 00:35
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Xarn posted:Found the foreign plant, cinci can't be a slav. i mean, putin doesn't drink ... o gently caress
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Jan 29, 2022 00:58
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It's not an invasion if the oblasts are rebelling against Moscow. I'd also like to say. Ще не вмерла України " UK prime minister Boris Johnson will speak to Russia's president Putin in coming days on Ukraine crisis. - Coming week could be important one for Johnson on foreign policy stage as he looks to assert UK role in mediating crisis " gently caress the UK and gently caress Bojack WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Jan 29, 2022 |
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Jan 29, 2022 02:27
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Discendo Vox posted:Eastern Europe: We must respect the right to a schnitzel of influence
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Jan 29, 2022 02:51
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It’s clearly “schnitzel provocation in Olivier sphere of influence”
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Jan 29, 2022 03:02
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:UK prime minister Boris Johnson will speak to Russia's president Putin in coming days on Ukraine crisis. - Coming week could be important one for Johnson on foreign policy stage as he looks to assert UK role in mediating crisis Things are probably popping off next week.
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Jan 29, 2022 03:30
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It feels like western leaders are taking turns: "who has Putin duty this week? Boris? Boris!"
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Jan 29, 2022 03:48
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Ah gently caress if BoJo is up next then you may as well start printing up new maps
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Jan 29, 2022 03:53
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Joking aside, given the weather/terrain and fuel resource and medical points that have been spotted, right now what the Russians would appear to be waiting are the final elements en route arriving (naval, final leg of Eastern Military District on rail to Belarus/frontier, recently spotted 76th Guards), which would be followed by staffing movements to Yelnya, Pogonovo and a couple of the smaller marshalling grounds, and from there advancing to the forward positions just prior to the offensive. So next week seems good unless they're looking to stall more.
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Jan 29, 2022 04:07
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nurmie posted:i'm assuming there is no analogue to the word "грозящее" in the Ukrainian language i just want to point out that the us has courageously taken the lead in promoting people as regional experts who know less than nothing about the region. see, for instance, our collection of 'middle east' experts who literally could not tell you the difference between farsi and arabic, much less know even basic phrases in either, to say nothing of actually speaking the relevant languages or having visited or lived in their supposed areas of expertise basically to answer your question: extremely easily. hell it's probably easier than actually being knowledgeable Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Jan 29, 2022 |
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Jan 29, 2022 05:06
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Herstory Begins Now posted:i just want to point out that the us has courageously taken the lead in promoting people as regional experts who know less than nothing about the region. see, for instance, our collection of 'middle east' experts who literally could not tell you the difference between farsi and arabic, much less know even basic phrases in either, to say nothing of actually speaking the relevant languages or having visited or lived in their supposed areas of expertise
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Jan 29, 2022 05:53
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Conspiratiorist posted:Joking aside, given the weather/terrain and fuel resource and medical points that have been spotted, right now what the Russians would appear to be waiting are the final elements en route arriving (naval, final leg of Eastern Military District on rail to Belarus/frontier, recently spotted 76th Guards), which would be followed by staffing movements to Yelnya, Pogonovo and a couple of the smaller marshalling grounds, and from there advancing to the forward positions just prior to the offensive. They won’t stomp all over Xi’s Olympic parade. Two weeks.
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Jan 29, 2022 06:03
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iv46vi posted:It’s clearly “schnitzel provocation in Olivier sphere of influence” I keep getting trumped with these much better ones, ugh
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Jan 29, 2022 06:11
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HonorableTB posted:Ah gently caress if BoJo is up next then you may as well start printing up new maps Morrow posted:It feels like western leaders are taking turns: "who has Putin duty this week? Boris? Boris!"
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Jan 29, 2022 07:16
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A Buttery Pastry posted:London and the Home Counties remaining in the CIS while the remainder of the UK devolves into a weak federation. Essex renamed Chavorussia.
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Jan 29, 2022 08:47
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Xarn posted:Found the foreign plant, cinci can't be a slav. I'm a Balt, yeah?  Sinteres posted:So the translation thing is dumb, but I think the underlying point is probably right, where Zelensky thinks the US is presenting an air of inevitability with some of the statements and the embassy withdrawal and everything, which could lead to Russia feeling like the cake's pretty much been baked and they may as well hop on over. That's obviously a simplification, and I don't think the US has quite that level of power with its tone alone, but I do think the US is extremely bad about using overheated language and is pretty lousy at public diplomacy in general, partially because blinkered Manichean thinking really is a problem here, and partially because everything's so dumbed down for domestic consumption. I have a lot more hope for the four party talks with Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany than anything involving the US. Yes, it's this that I've been replying about to various posters chiming in on Zelenskyi's semantic disagreements with the White House, incessantly. I'd say the language more comes off as disenfranchising towards Ukraine, rather than empowering Russia, but that's not a distinction worth a discussion. As for the highlighted bit, it's useful for foreign posters, especially Americans, to keep in mind that tone of speech has different gravity in different parts of the world. Eastern Europeans, especially the European part of the ex-USSR, will take the tone very seriously, which leads to poo poo like American smiling being seen as outright offensive. Here's a good article on this: https://www.chicagomaroon.com/2002/04/12/why-russians-do-not-smile/
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Jan 29, 2022 08:48
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I'm a Balt, yeah? He literally said yesterday that the situation is unchanged from a year ago. That's not semantic disagreement. That's a different message. If American and UK intelligence accrding to biden is accurate then Zelensky needs to get people people panicking. Foreign investors will also be driven away by an active military invasion.
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Jan 29, 2022 09:06
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FishBulbia posted:He literally said yesterday that the situation is unchanged from a year ago. That's not semantic disagreement. That's a different message. If American intelligence accrding to biden is accurate then Zelensky needs to get people people panicking. Foreign investors will also be driven away by an active military invasion. Sure, I’ve seen that and it did raise my eyebrows in some ways, but I think you’re quoting him out of context. Here’s an article from the Guardian, who were briefed yesterday by him directly (emphases mine): quote:
Second emphasised bit alone would be questionable, but overall I don’t feel that his administration has any illusions about what’s happening, or has been downplaying any threats further than to just calm down the rhetoric. Panicking is stupid, and Ukrainians can prepare to what may come without panicking. That said, my post was referencing the entirety of preceding conversation, with multiple people handwringing for days about Zelenskyi not happily reciting everything the White House or Biden says. Yesterday’s conference does only slightly change that, and imo only happened because Anglo journalists can’t let the topic go, and the commercial media machine requires 24/7 clickbait that’s simply not being generated by Ukraine right now. People are for actual loving real going “Ukraine please do a visible panic, we have a dramatic war to report on”.
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Jan 29, 2022 09:25
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FishBulbia posted:He literally said yesterday that the situation is unchanged from a year ago. That's not semantic disagreement. That's a different message. If American and UK intelligence accrding to biden is accurate then Zelensky needs to get people people panicking. Foreign investors will also be driven away by an active military invasion. Why on earth would zelenskii need to get people panicking? Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Jan 29, 2022 |
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Jan 29, 2022 09:26
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I'm a Balt, yeah? cinci zoo sniper posted:As for the highlighted bit, it's useful for foreign posters, especially Americans, to keep in mind that tone of speech has different gravity in different parts of the world. Eastern Europeans, especially the European part of the ex-USSR, will take the tone very seriously, which leads to poo poo like American smiling being seen as outright offensive. Here's a good article on this: https://www.chicagomaroon.com/2002/04/12/why-russians-do-not-smile/
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Jan 29, 2022 09:47
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cinci zoo sniper posted:That said, my post was referencing the entirety of preceding conversation, with multiple people handwringing for days about Zelenskyi not happily reciting everything the White House or Biden says. Yesterday’s conference does only slightly change that, and imo only happened because Anglo journalists can’t let the topic go, and the commercial media machine requires 24/7 clickbait that’s simply not being generated by Ukraine right now. Clearly, the west is right now in a state of war fever and the media and some in the government seem very excited about Ukraine "fighting to the last drop of blood." But there are two emerging different images of the Russian threat. The European and American press want to see images of tanks blitzing across ukrainian fields and massive good for TV war. Zelensky clearly fears an internal coup or unrest which might lead to an "invitation for protection" or Ukraine being domestically turbo hosed and left in a ruined state.
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Jan 29, 2022 09:49
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Why on earth would zelenskii need to get people panicking? Perhaps panicked is the wrong word, I chose it as his statements have been justified as "preventing panic," but if a general invasion is less than two weeks away I think a leader has a responsibility to tell a population and devote all energy to defense and assuring civilians can stay alive. FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Jan 29, 2022 |
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Jan 29, 2022 09:52
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FishBulbia posted:Perhaps panicked is the wrong word, but if a general invasion is less than two weeks away I think a leader has a responsibility to tell a population and devote all energy to defense and assuring civilians can stay alive. Perhaps Ukrainians, by the virtue of living in Ukraine, the country supposedly under the threat of imminent invasion, perceive the situation differently from someone on the other side of the world?
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Jan 29, 2022 09:55
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Can you stop double posting? In other news: lmao https://mobile.twitter.com/AS7404542949/status/1486964256356585475 This needs 10 paragraphs written about how it's the west's fault and we need to understand the perspective of Putin https://mobile.twitter.com/AFP/status/1487145451803582469
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Jan 29, 2022 09:57
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barbecue at the folks posted:Perhaps Ukrainians, by the virtue of living in Ukraine, the country supposedly under the threat of imminent invasion, perceive the situation differently from someone on the other side of the world? What is this supposed to mean? Are you saying Biden and Boris is wrong to percieve a build up as a threat of invasion?
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Jan 29, 2022 10:02
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Somaen posted:In other news: lmao howling FishBulbia posted:Clearly, the west is right now in a state of war fever and the media and some in the government seem very excited about Ukraine "fighting to the last drop of blood." I do agree with you, and I think it really is the latter. Specifically, that Zelenskyi sees genuine risks of 1) collapse of the economy, triggered by speculation on the markets (e.g., Russian stock market is not doing great already, and Ukrainian economy is orders of magnitude less robust than the Russian), and 2) the armed forces falling apart, in part because this entire development has caught them in the middle of chain of command reforms towards a more localised, NATO-style approach to command and control.
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Jan 29, 2022 10:20
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FishBulbia posted:What is this supposed to mean? Are you saying Biden and Boris is wrong to percieve a build up as a threat of invasion? Also, a threat of invasion is not the same as an invasion. If you let a threat of invasion guide your every move with a neighbor like Russia, then your neighbor could basically dictate policy.
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Jan 29, 2022 10:32
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beautiful
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