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Doronin posted:One more show theory: I also don't believe for a second that Lyle Lisson's parents just "stepped aside." Maybe they let Lyle and his wife be the face of the church, but I'd bet near the end we find out they're just as much under their parents' thumbs as Jesse and co. (no pun intended... unless I accidentally stumbled on some convoluted metaphorical theme of this season). I think they mentioned that the senior Lisson had a stroke or something Chronicles fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 23:28
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Mob posted:A big part of it is how the Gemstones actually believe in Christianity, and not just doing it as part of a grift. Like in season 1 when Eli threw and broke that little Jesus statue and all the kids FREAKED out this is part of the cooption of corporate entrepenurial language and mindset in american protestant christianity which can seem baffling and hypocritical to outsiders. these people truly believe in the power of Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior, and they also think that Jesus Christ blesses the worthy with massive wealth and business deals. like, i have no doubt that Joel Osteen is a big time Jesus believer and a very personally upright christian, its just that his brand of sermonizing involves making a fuckload of money because of his enormous congregation being a rich as gently caress christian isn't a new thing - the catholic church has been pulling this poo poo for centuries - but part of being a protestant in the united states used to be associated with austerity, poverty, and simplicity, since there was no overall church structure to concentrate wealth at the top. but then along comes mass media and televangelism and your average flash in the pan charismatic protestant preacher can now become rich as poo poo Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 23:29
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Prosperity gospel is fascinating because it's so blatantly anti christian.
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Jan 28, 2022 23:33
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I’m currently liking the theory suggested upthread that the lissons are in the hole with organized crime and the zion’s landing scheme is contrived to help them pay down their debt, but the swerve can come from several directions so I’m in for the ride
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Jan 28, 2022 23:48
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MizuZero posted:I’m currently liking the theory suggested upthread that the lissons are in the hole with organized crime and the zion’s landing scheme is contrived to help them pay down their debt, but the swerve can come from several directions so I’m in for the ride  on all countsa hit squad seems like a pretty extreme step for run of the mill grift but if getting the money is literal life or death to them then that would help explain things it also obviously plays into the conceit of Danny McBride's megachurch-as-mafia-show the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jan 29, 2022 |
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Jan 29, 2022 00:03
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Waiting for the reveal that Martin is one of Eli's converted-to-christianity wrestling friends.
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Jan 29, 2022 01:26
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Cojawfee posted:If he is able to recognize that a real preacher should live a humble life, he is streets head of any other televangelist. Yeah, that's sort of my point, Eli is one of the grifters but that doesn't mean that his faith isn't real at least some of the time.
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Jan 29, 2022 01:35
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Ithle01 posted:Yeah, that's sort of my point, Eli is one of the grifters but that doesn't mean that his faith isn't real at least some of the time. That's not grifting though. Grifting implies a scam or scheme with some knowledge of wrongdoing. If Eli truly believes in god, jesus, the whole bit and that his work (while making him filthy rich) is truly gods calling for him and he's helping people then his conscious is clear.
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Jan 29, 2022 02:53
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ChesterJT posted:That's not grifting though. Grifting implies a scam or scheme with some knowledge of wrongdoing. If Eli truly believes in god, jesus, the whole bit and that his work (while making him filthy rich) is truly gods calling for him and he's helping people then his conscious is clear. Eli loves God, but he loves being rich even more. Cognitive dissonance is a thing. People do things they know are wrong, but rationalize it away as they go through life and that's basically what Eli has done his entire life. He clearly felt some guilt from being a loan shark's enforcer, but he did that anyway.
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Jan 29, 2022 03:17
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one of my favorite acting moments on the show is the complex interplay of emotions across Eli's face when Junior is comparing the preacher act to a wrestling show. Eli knows that Junior is basically right but he believes Junior is wrong and he simultaneously can neither agree nor argue with Junior's point because either way he would be betraying some fundamental part of himself and he has too much integrity to do so lightly.
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Jan 29, 2022 03:27
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Ithle01 posted:Eli loves God, but he loves being rich even more. Cognitive dissonance is a thing. People do things they know are wrong, but rationalize it away as they go through life and that's basically what Eli has done his entire life. He clearly felt some guilt from being a loan shark's enforcer, but he did that anyway. Pure speculation. Besides, to the point you tried to make, he's not actually doing anything wrong that we know of in the present. He did bad things as a kid, but at some point he found religion and is the man we see in the show. We don't have his full back story yet so until we do we can't claim to know. The reason Eli works as the head of the family is that he appears to be Righteous™. His kids are alternatively sycophants and hateful spoiled brats. That's the contrast and that's why the show works. The point we've been making is that if they turn Eli into a grifting greedy false-christian stereotype then the show loses something because of it.
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Jan 29, 2022 07:24
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The prayer in the restaurant and the way he handles BJ’s family shows that he is charming and sincere at points. But without Amy, his id is coming out more and more.
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Jan 29, 2022 07:33
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ChesterJT posted:Pure speculation. Besides, to the point you tried to make, he's not actually doing anything wrong that we know of in the present. He did bad things as a kid, but at some point he found religion and is the man we see in the show. We don't have his full back story yet so until we do we can't claim to know. The reason Eli works as the head of the family is that he appears to be Righteous™. His kids are alternatively sycophants and hateful spoiled brats. That's the contrast and that's why the show works. The point we've been making is that if they turn Eli into a grifting greedy false-christian stereotype then the show loses something because of it. you're right, I'm sure the only reason Eli has repeatedly been indicted for financial crimes is anti-Christian bias
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Jan 29, 2022 07:46
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the holy poopacy posted:one of my favorite acting moments on the show is the complex interplay of emotions across Eli's face when Junior is comparing the preacher act to a wrestling show. Eli knows that Junior is basically right but he believes Junior is wrong and he simultaneously can neither agree nor argue with Junior's point because either way he would be betraying some fundamental part of himself and he has too much integrity to do so lightly. Eli reconnecting with Junior and his conflicted emotions about it are legitimately some of the best acting in the series. Like, obviously everyone else rules hard but John Goodman is... John Goodman. He's the best. McBride, Patterson, Devine, Baltz and Goggins are much showier roles, but I'm glad they've let Goodman put in some work. Skyler Gisondo is also generally very good, but he hasn't had much to do this season.
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Jan 29, 2022 09:11
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quantumfoam posted:Waiting for the reveal that Martin is one of Eli's converted-to-christianity wrestling friends. I agree with this, Martin is very high profile and ride-or-die for someone we know almost nothing about.
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Jan 29, 2022 12:38
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Speaking of Osteen: https://twitter.com/GJMcClintock/status/1435116227114901507?t=DLxALwCZk4B9T2wfSGFIOQ&s=19
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Jan 29, 2022 13:53
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAvHIUdPee8 christianity itself isn't going to ever be the butt of the joke on the show, which is to its credit and why the show works. the whole first season is basically a big parable. honestly you could look at it as one of the best works of mainstream Christian media ever
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Jan 29, 2022 14:33
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I do really want to know more about Martin. like where did this dude come from, how did he get so tight with Eli. he's such a pivotal figure and we know nothing about him, it's very intriguing
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Jan 29, 2022 14:35
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Doronin posted:If I had to guess, I think Danny McBride and/or John Goodman must have been as intrigued by the legend of Reverend Jimmy Swaggart as I was growing up. The guy was cousins with Jerry Lee "The Killer" Lewis, and allegedly bragged to people, and I'm paraphrasing, "I've made 10 times more than my cousin ever made and never paid a dime of taxes on it." Every choice that's made with the Eli character is very similar to Swaggart and his TV ministries of the 70s and 80s. They're definitely taking inspiration from the Bakkers seeing as they were the big husband and wife team and had a Christian theme park. ChesterJT posted:Pure speculation. Besides, to the point you tried to make, he's not actually doing anything wrong that we know of in the present. He did bad things as a kid, but at some point he found religion and is the man we see in the show. We don't have his full back story yet so until we do we can't claim to know. The reason Eli works as the head of the family is that he appears to be Righteous™. His kids are alternatively sycophants and hateful spoiled brats. That's the contrast and that's why the show works. The point we've been making is that if they turn Eli into a grifting greedy false-christian stereotype then the show loses something because of it. It looks like tomorrow's episode is going to dig into the change over from regular congregation to Mega-Church. So that will probably answer some questions.
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Jan 29, 2022 18:35
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the holy poopacy posted:you're right, I'm sure the only reason Eli has repeatedly been indicted for financial crimes is anti-Christian bias I must have missed that, what episode did that come up?
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Jan 30, 2022 04:01
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ChesterJT posted:I must have missed that, what episode did that come up? There was a shot in I think the first episode this season where the reporter was looking at old news articles with headlines like "Eli Gemstone Indicted".
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Jan 30, 2022 05:06
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Also, in the first season the flyers that Johnny Seasons puts on the cars in the parking lot have a rundown of Gemstone scandals that has that and a few others
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Jan 30, 2022 07:54
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There was also how Eli decided to open the church in the mall for the sole purpose of taking all the church goers from their previous churches. Praise be to he
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Jan 30, 2022 12:01
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And also the way that his church is part of a crass shopping center where you can buy a little salvation along with a cinnabon and a latte while shopping for pants. They even point out in the show that this is commercializing their faith.
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Jan 30, 2022 15:27
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Right, but the show is better for Eli doing that poo poo from the perspective of "this is copacetic with God and my ministry promotes Him well" rather than "gently caress sheeple get paid"
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Jan 30, 2022 17:14
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see, i dont doubt that we wont meet someone that says or thinks such a thing outright. it may not be eli, but it will be overtly stated at some point. the only thing that i think the show will always respect and never touch is the actual people going to the churches and forming congregations, because the show isnt actually about belief, just the power structures and the humans building and enforcing the power structures that spring up around belief.
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Jan 30, 2022 17:43
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just started the ep so i'm a bit behind but jeez the kid they got to play kelvin is adorable
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Jan 31, 2022 04:15
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oh eli's dad...that's heart breaking
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Jan 31, 2022 04:23
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DOPE FIEND KILLA G posted:just started the ep so i'm a bit behind but jeez the kid they got to play kelvin is adorable Too bad about the haircut
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Jan 31, 2022 04:46
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And here I thought last weeks episode was the best episode this season.
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Jan 31, 2022 04:46
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Goddamn, was this an episode for John Goodman to show off. Those facial expressions at the end of the flashback period when his dad forgot who he was after telling him he was a good man? The delight in seeing the kids open up their presents? If he doesn't get awards nods for it I'm gonna be so salty on his behalf.
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Jan 31, 2022 04:53
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drat.
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Jan 31, 2022 04:58
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What a good episode
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Jan 31, 2022 05:06
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Baby billy is such an amazing piece of poo poo
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Jan 31, 2022 05:12
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Maybe dont let dad have that particular toy or make sure it doesn't have power
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Jan 31, 2022 05:14
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bobkatt013 posted:Too bad about the haircut That reaction shot was amazing
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Jan 31, 2022 05:26
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I forgot that Misbehavin had a line about telling your dad not to run away.
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Jan 31, 2022 05:31
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Are we to believe that someone delivered a full load of concrete to a job site on Christmas night and just walked away in case someone happened to need some concrete? Immersion ruined.
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Jan 31, 2022 05:36
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withak posted:Are we to believe that someone delivered a full load of concrete to a job site on Christmas night and just walked away in case someone happened to need some concrete? Immersion ruined. Lazy contractors left that December 20 and came back for the new year because the gemstones pay net 60. What’s interesting, watching back is you can tell the park was rehabilitated to be cooler… But not really. There are modern versions of all the gemstone kids and that’s most of it. The rest seems very 1994. And we’ve never seen/heard it actually open over the course of the series. (It’s possibly they just don’t write it because roller coasters require tons and tons of extras which is hard to shoot during Covid, but I imagine the gemstones don’t make a lot of money off it anymore. Or the entire show is taking place in the off-season?)
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Jan 31, 2022 05:40
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withak posted:Are we to believe that someone delivered a full load of concrete to a job site on Christmas night and just walked away in case someone happened to need some concrete? Immersion ruined. I dunno, it immersed Glendon pretty well
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Jan 31, 2022 05:42
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