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nine-gear crow posted:This is why Luke vs the Dubstep bots at the end of Mando Season 2 felt so weird to me. It came across as another personal hand written apology to all the people who didn’t understand what the Luke/Kylo fight was supposed to be doing and got mad about it. I feel like the same people that decided to add the Vader hallway smash to the end of Rogue One are the ones that wanted this scene. They did all of this build up with the killbots only to have our main characters sit in a room and watch grainy parking lot CCTV footage of Luke's stunt double hacking them apart and it felt like it went on for ten minutes. Lightsaber pew pew action is cool when done correctly but nobody wants ten minutes of drum solo.
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Jan 29, 2022 21:15
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Penitent posted:Lightsaber pew pew action is cool when done correctly but nobody wants ten minutes of drum solo. I'm sorry that you can't experience joy, or understand that pretty much everyone loved Luke at the end of Mando S2
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Jan 29, 2022 21:22
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Butterfly Valley posted:I'm sorry that you can't experience joy, or understand that pretty much everyone loved Luke at the end of Mando S2 I'm one of those complicated people that can like a thing because space ships and laser swords and then also critique a thing but still enjoy it overall. I'm sorry you are only deal in absolutes.
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Jan 29, 2022 21:27
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TLJ is not nearly good enough on a whole to justify the like four minutes or so of it that were sort of decent. And lol yeah the entire world went bonkers apeshit for Luke in Mando, it’s basically the only reason Star Wars has any future rn The whole franchise coasts on vibes and nostalgia and even this episode is actually a pretty good example of why.
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Jan 29, 2022 21:31
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BrianWilly posted:TLJ is not nearly good enough on a whole to justify the like four minutes or so of it that were sort of decent. There's more than four minutes of good things in TLJimo, though he film is a weirdly structured mess. But man, I wish they had taken and run with "we must build something new without slavish devotion to, or complete destruction of the past" Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 21:40 on Jan 29, 2022 |
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Jan 29, 2022 21:34
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Luke's robot massacre was the exact kind of pandering that I dislike about the post Disney star wars it was fun but in an empty way
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Jan 29, 2022 22:06
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The biggest issue I had with it was that they didn’t give the show enough of a budget to use real de-aging tech. So Luke is forced to be this stoic robot person that Din really shouldn’t have any confidence in.
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Jan 29, 2022 22:14
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What happened with star wars is simple. Star Wars broke your heart. Either in 1999 with the Phantom Menace or in 2015 with the Force Awakens.
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Jan 29, 2022 22:15
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If Disney hadn't decided that Luke needed to die for some reason and just made him the protagonist in episodes 8&9 I would have been so much happier but uh, for some reason I guess we weren't allowed to have our childhood hero be the hero.
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Jan 29, 2022 22:16
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Jerkface posted:Luke's robot massacre was the exact kind of pandering that I dislike about the post Disney star wars That entire episode was terrible. It only works as fan service. If you think about the scene from Mando's point of view it absolutely falls apart. The most recent episode of Boba Fett was exactly what these shows would thrive by doing more of. Just a fun, tight, empty adventure in The Star Wars. I'm still hoping we eventually get something with a bit more depth, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Jan 29, 2022 22:23
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Anita Dickinme posted:If Disney hadn't decided that Luke needed to die for some reason and just made him the protagonist in episodes 8&9 I would have been so much happier but uh, for some reason I guess we weren't allowed to have our childhood hero be the hero. Luke's time as the hero is over though, he is now the mentor character. there needs to be new blood in star wars. The one thing the ST did right was to not try and have the OT characters overshadow the new ones. They probably shouldn't have had luke exiled to start tho.
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Jan 29, 2022 22:39
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Anita Dickinme posted:If Disney hadn't decided that Luke needed to die for some reason and just made him the protagonist in episodes 8&9 I would have been so much happier but uh, for some reason I guess we weren't allowed to have our childhood hero be the hero. Luke and Han did not fit into Disney's greater Star Wars vision. Disney has carefully and meticulously discerned that a Star War can be boiled down to these essential and immortal ingredients: The Millennium Falcon, a guy in the Chewie suit riding shotgun, R2-D2 in a non-speaking role in the background, and a fresh faced young up-and-comer at the controls. Rinse and repeat until the heat death of the universe. I think the reception of the sequels has caused them to shift gears somewhat which I'm really happy about. Honestly, I would love if they just pulled the trigger and re-cast Han, Luke, and Leia and wove them into the Disney+ TV shows. Penitent fucked around with this message at 23:16 on Jan 29, 2022 |
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Jan 29, 2022 23:09
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Penitent posted:Luke and Han do not fit into Disney's greater Star Wars vision. Basically you want to reduce the amount of actor likeness royalties in merch as much as humanly possible. Anyone that can be in a helmet should be in a helmet as often as possible.
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Jan 29, 2022 23:17
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Jerkface posted:Luke's time as the hero is over though, he is now the mentor character. there needs to be new blood in star wars. The one thing the ST did right was to not try and have the OT characters overshadow the new ones. They probably shouldn't have had luke exiled to start tho. I understand this, but he still could have had the mentor role and just... not died. But yeah I think the biggest thing that pissed me off was they made Luke a whiny man-child who apparently just said gently caress it let the space nazis control the galaxy I ain't gonna stop them this time because I failed to kill my nephew who had a bad dream.  But even if he had to die I don't understand why he couldn't have died in episode 9 after properly training Rey and fighting the Emperor but oh well, that's not what we got and I already feel like poo poo for this  post.Penitent posted:Luke and Han did not fit into Disney's greater Star Wars vision. Yeah at the end of the day as bad as I, and the majority of fans, feel about the sequel trilogy at least we're getting the Thrawn trilogy in TV form. 
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Jan 29, 2022 23:38
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Laser Moon is the only way to watch the prequels. Or the original series. Or anything, really. https://youtu.be/zwLccJOMTX0
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Jan 29, 2022 23:56
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I'm sorry that the grand experiment to uplift Star Wars beyond its cartoonishly cyclical roots wasn't to actually do anything profound or competent with its story, but to resort to the most cynical self-congratulatory edgelord-tier navel-gazing approach of "What if the good hero you liked...was actually bad??????????" and then the reason they actually give for him being bad was "basically magic." Like I don't care how radical a story they were envisioning in their heads, at the end of the day it has to be stressed that the core reason they gave for Luke's epic downfall was that he sensed dark magic, somehow, because Ben was somehow being corrupted by darkness offscreen so yes clearly the answer was child murder. Because of. The magic. And all this was even from the portion of the film that wasn't actually all-the-way awful!
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Jan 29, 2022 23:57
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Bad Munki posted:Laser Moon is the only way to watch the prequels. Or the original series. Or anything, really. Laser Moon, Phantom Past and Last Laser Master are an amazing trilogy. I'm hoping that the sequel ones keep up the Banana Time energy. These sentences make sense to someone.
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Jan 30, 2022 00:00
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tlj blew rear end!
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Jan 30, 2022 00:13
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Arc Hammer posted:Laser Moon, Phantom Past and Last Laser Master are an amazing trilogy. I'm hoping that the sequel ones keep up the Banana Time energy. You’re 100% correct, sir. Anyone who hasn’t watched the series and frequents this thread is a disgrace.
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Jan 30, 2022 00:15
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BrianWilly posted:I'm sorry that the grand experiment to uplift Star Wars beyond its cartoonishly cyclical roots wasn't to actually do anything profound or competent with its story, but to resort to the most cynical self-congratulatory edgelord-tier navel-gazing approach of "What if the good hero you liked...was actually bad??????????" and then the reason they actually give for him being bad was "basically magic." You should read George Lucas's original treatment for the story of the Sequel trilogy that he wrote before Disney bought LucasFilm. It will surprise you, I've no doubt. Because it's basically The Last Jedi
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Jan 30, 2022 00:22
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Unfiltered George Lucas is kind of a moron so maybe that's not the defense you think it is
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Jan 30, 2022 00:56
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Unfiltered George Lucas is very entertaining. He's a wellspring of creativity but he just has nobody to stop him. Keeping things hypothetical with him he's a big kid with crazy thoughts.
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Jan 30, 2022 00:59
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Hazo posted:Unfiltered George Lucas is kind of a moron so maybe that's not the defense you think it is True, but it's enough of a double-edged sword to effectively shut up all the "BUT GEORGE'S VISION!" dorks who think Lucas is going to come in any day now and save the franchise by showing them that George's Vision™ would have landed them in The Last Jedi anyway so all their tears and hopes are for naught.
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Jan 30, 2022 01:00
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Luke was super heroic at the end of TLJ. 🤔 Inspiring the entire galaxy.
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Jan 30, 2022 01:01
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Arc Hammer posted:Unfiltered George Lucas is very entertaining. He's a wellspring of creativity but he just has nobody to stop him. Keeping things hypothetical with him he's a big kid with crazy thoughts. nine-gear crow posted:True, but it's enough of a double-edged sword to effectively shut up all the "BUT GEORGE'S VISION!" dorks who think Lucas is going to come in any day now and save the franchise by showing them that George's Vision™ would have landed them in The Last Jedi anyway so all their tears and hopes are for naught. 
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Jan 30, 2022 01:11
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I've made a post about TLJ before in this very thread, but immediately after posting I thought "ugh I don't really want to participate in the argument I'm stirring up here" and so rather cowardly peaced out - for which I sincerely apologise and wish to make amends. Since TLJ's merits or demerits are back on the menu, and I'm watching Bob Fat and enjoying it so I've got a reason to check in here again, I want to repeat (and this time stay for the responses) that TLJ ultimately fails for me because it either refuses to commit or simply isn't sincere to begin with. Forget about the past, burn it? The Force is not about lifting rocks? Jedi teachings were wrong? Never mind all that, well done preserving those ancient Jedi writings and saving the day by literally lifting rocks! At least it doesn't end up directly contradicting itself regarding its critique of both sides' dependence on the military industrial complex, but as far as I can tell it has no practical relevance to the film either - it doesn't cause any character to act or even think differently. So whatever the intentions, TLJ just doesn't actually appear subversive to me at all. I honestly do wish TLJ had stuck to its purported guns, because even if I'm not so sure Star Wars needs subversion in this particular manner, at least it would've meant something. As it is, the whole exercise feels a bit pointless to me. And I probably could've forgiven TLJ even for that, if it weren't for the Marvel-/Whedon-esque comedy that just feels out of place in Star Wars, the interminable space chase, the generally odd pacing and casino-planet interlude, its general insistence on one-upping TFA and compressing the major plot and action beats it derived from both ESB and RotJ into a single film (why oh why didn't the throne room scene at least end with Rey as not-Luke falling to the Dark Side), "it's salt", etc. To be fair, it's still a much better and more watchable film than TRoS, but I feel it's just too uneven, forced (ho ho) and unwilling to actually take any risks to warrant genuine praise. Anyway! The Auralnauts videos are indeed really good and thinking of sensible and caring middle-management Vader's relation to Duke warms my heart every time. Well worth watching.
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Jan 30, 2022 01:21
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That DICK! posted:tlj blew rear end!
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Jan 30, 2022 01:36
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Sombrerotron posted:I'm watching Bob Fat and I love you for Bob Fat TLJ had ideas that could have been developed into something truly interesting if they had been given time to simmer. Instead, they let Rian Johnson take the franchise around 90 degree hairpin turn at 100 miles an hour in a single film and everyone got whiplash along the way. Good and Evil? Nah, it's totally gray! The famous Jedi? They were morons, let's burn their dumb books! The identity of Rey's parents is a big mystery? No it isn't, they never mattered! You're excited to see Luke Skywalker save the galaxy after the set-up from the last film? We're worried you're getting spoiled so here is an angry old man drinking green titty milk from a hobo instead. Penitent fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Jan 30, 2022 |
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Jan 30, 2022 01:47
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Changing the subject. Are any of the star wars languages actually learnable? I'm watching Ewoks (because disney plus) and trying to figure if they are pulling it out of their rear end.
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Jan 30, 2022 02:07
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Penitent posted:I feel like the same people that decided to add the Vader hallway smash to the end of Rogue One are the ones that wanted this scene. They did all of this build up with the killbots only to have our main characters sit in a room and watch grainy parking lot CCTV footage of Luke's stunt double hacking them apart and it felt like it went on for ten minutes. The scene is entirely fan service but... Star Wars begins with an attempt to pay homage to schockly old cinema serials while reinventing the Story of King Arthur etc etc for the modern age. It's this wonderful blend of layers of reference and fan service and originality and terribly written dialogue that creates something magical. Getting that blend right is hard. The problem with TFA is there's nothing original in it. The problem with TLJ is that the original idea it tries to put on the table (let the past die) doesn't work in a franchise that exists at core to evoke old things. The Mandalorian isn't perfect but by and large it knows how to get the mix right.
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Jan 30, 2022 02:09
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shades of eternity posted:Changing the subject. I think the "basic" alphabet is a simple letter replacement; but this article goes into how they approach the alien languages as a sound design experiment first, making them sound weird to non-english speaking people. I wish they had just done 'alien' languages with subtitles instead of using heavy accents and broken english in the prequels. *edit* oops forgot the wiki link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Langu...a%20the%20Hutt. Sekhmnet fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jan 30, 2022 |
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Jan 30, 2022 02:15
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Hazo posted:Unfiltered George Lucas is kind of a moron so maybe that's not the defense you think it is He created jizz and you insult him like that
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Jan 30, 2022 02:53
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ty kindly. rewatching droids. Since Star Wars is inherently incestuous when it comes to interconnectivity, I think I discovered Drash's parents. (see pic) and oddly enough has the same feel as episode 3.
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Jan 30, 2022 02:54
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Alchenar posted:Getting that blend right is hard. The problem with TFA is there's nothing original in it. The problem with TLJ is that the original idea it tries to put on the table (let the past die) doesn't work in a franchise that exists at core to evoke old things. The Mandalorian isn't perfect but by and large it knows how to get the mix right. Kylo Ren shrieks at Rey to "let go of the past." Okay. What does this message mean for this character, in this situation? Because the actual context here is that Ren wants Rey to let go of...of wanting to help him be a good guy, so that she will join his fascist empire to kill the rest of her friends. Letting go of the past, in this situation, means for Rey let go of her connections, to forget everything good she's ever learned in order to help him rule the galaxy. Why, in the actual gently caress, would she do that? What possible motivation would she have to follow through on this? She ends up refusing him but like, of course she does! Why did Kylo ever think she would agree? More magic? Rose tells Finn that they're ultimately going to win by "saving what they love" instead of "fighting what they hate." Once you get past the roundabout tautology of her words, ostensibly this means that they shouldn't throw away their lives so easily because staying alive out of love will give them a greater chance in the end. But...but she's saying this while these last dozen or so straggling members of their resistance are literally cornered in a deathtrap while the enemy's entire force is about to paint the cavern walls with their brains. What was Rose plan for saving what they love, in this situation? Everyone was going to die in minutes whether or not Finn fought with love in his heart! Like it was nice that she saved Finn from his suicide rush so he was still alive when the Luke Ex Machina arrived, but at the end her wise words pretty much just amount to stalling for more time until a magic solution literally falls down from the sky to save them.
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Jan 30, 2022 03:23
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Your mistake is assuming that the words they are saying are meant for the characters in their current situation and not metatextual declarations to the audience. Thematically the sequel trilogy is about the way that the world views Star Wars and what star wars should mean. Any time you put more thought into a comment a character makes and the less sense it makes, just remember that you the viewer are being talked to primarily, not the other characters.
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Jan 30, 2022 03:30
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idk man. I think characters on the magic screen should talk to each other and not to me. Or wait. Hold up, hear me out, wacky notion here: what if the words they said made sense to me, yes, but also to each other? Wouldn't that be awesome? BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jan 30, 2022 |
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Jan 30, 2022 03:38
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BrianWilly posted:idk man. I think characters on the magic screen should talk to each other and not to me. Though occasionally when they talk to each other, they're mostly talking to themselves - which is pretty much what was happening in both of the scenes you cited above. Kylo Ren was a person whose every loving relationship had become a source of pain and regret. He killed his own father, betrayed his uncle and sacrificed everything for Snoke, a guy he fully understands is just using him. He wants Rey to join him because that's the only way he sees himself getting any kind of good future. And he wants that future because that's the only way he can let go of a past that through his own actions has become a torment to him. On some level by the time she says what she says, Rose loves Finn. So she wants to save him - even if only for a few more minutes before Ren and the First Order come to kill them all anyway.
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Jan 30, 2022 03:49
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TLJ had a lot of pro-*strokes out and has a seizure and is still able to make better posts than the last few pages*
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Jan 30, 2022 04:07
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Spookydonut posted:BDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBDBD
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Jan 30, 2022 04:30
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Penitent posted:Luke and Han did not fit into Disney's greater Star Wars vision. Should they though? The actors aren't going to be around forever and keeping the focus entirely on the same handful of effectively immortal characters is a great way to get stagnation (just look at the old EU for instance, or comic books in general). I'm fine with recasting for interstitial stories but giving the characters an actual end is a good idea in theory.
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