[Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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(Thread IKs: fart simpson)

Gorman Thomas: Jul 24, 2007

Some Guy TT posted:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status/1488257518568497156
https://mobile.twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status/1488261254309298177
https://mobile.twitter.com/ClintEhrlich/status/1488263052738772992

Removing diplomats is a provocation in itself lol.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 00:35

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# ? May 27, 2024 14:45

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

Have any diplomats been evacuated? AFAIK it's just their families (which Russia also evacuated, over a week earlier: https://www.rt.com/russia/546357-moscow-evacuate-embassy-ukraine/ )

# ? Feb 1, 2022 00:43

Mister Bates: Aug 4, 2010

Orange Devil posted:

Ask a Native American what a treaty with the US is worth.

we think they�re pretty bad

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:11

BrutalistMcDonalds: Oct 4, 2012; Lipstick Apathy

https://twitter.com/YahooFinance/status/1488268952400707586

for being in violation of chinese data protection policies. local hookup apps including blued (the largest gay dating app in the world) still available

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:21

Grevling: Dec 18, 2016

Blued balls from not being able to access Grindr.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:25

HiroProtagonist: May 7, 2007

Flavahbeast posted:

Its a frequent subject in /r/ukraine

what the gently caress are these war horny psychos on?

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:25

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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Cao Ni Ma posted:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/31/countries-are-thinking-twice-about-hacking-an-olympics-held-china/

drat imagine that, having mutually beneficial geopolitical goals means people are less likely to try to gently caress with you.

It's ok, we are just going to keep branding foreign nations as ungrateful bithcs till the cows comes home, instead providing any material incentive at following us in the China Question

so now, where's my million dollars as a distinguished speaker of the Council of Foreign Relations

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:28

30.5 Days: Nov 19, 2006

I think if you wanted to get cynical about the grindr removal you could argue that china is loving with a foreign competitor to a chinese app, which they do from time to time in many different verticals.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:42

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

Grindr is also a major avenue for drug sales in some parts of the world

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:46

In Training: Jun 28, 2008

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

this is one of the smarter invasion scares, since 5 years from now is long enough you don't have to prove anything (unlike Russian army divisions), and by the time 2027 rolls around everyone will have completely forgotten about it. Check please.

I've head of a 5 year plan but this is ridiculous

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:49

CaptainACAB: Sep 14, 2021; by Jeffrey of Langley

Grapplejack posted:

Why the gently caress would Japan intervene and with what army lmao

The LDP psychos have been pushing to repeal article 9 for a long time now and given their thoughts on their last war with China (which are that it was Good and they should have killed more people) this is a worrying development.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:50

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:

this is one of the smarter invasion scares, since 5 years from now is long enough you don't have to prove anything (unlike Russian army divisions), and by the time 2027 rolls around everyone will have completely forgotten about it. Check please.

good thing the US may not exist by 2027

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:51

CaptainACAB: Sep 14, 2021; by Jeffrey of Langley

Also have they presented (or even been asked for lmao) any actual evidence that Russia intends to invade Ukraine beyond the troop buildups which are orders of magnitude too small to actually invade Ukraine?

I remember during the Iraq days at least a few people had the spine to ask them for evidence, which they promptly fabricated.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:53

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

The Russians are bringing up much needed blood reserves for their Brujah auxiliaries.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 01:58

CaptainACAB: Sep 14, 2021; by Jeffrey of Langley

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

The Russians are bringing up much needed blood reserves for their Brujah auxiliaries.

Have they presented any evidence of that, though? Literally even one verifiable document or photo or anything?

# ? Feb 1, 2022 02:00

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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30.5 Days posted:

I think if you wanted to get cynical about the grindr removal you could argue that china is loving with a foreign competitor to a chinese app, which they do from time to time in many different verticals.

lol Singapore let Uber in just enough to kill it with a local and Indonesian counterpart afterwards

# ? Feb 1, 2022 02:03

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

CaptainACAB posted:

Have they presented any evidence of that, though? Literally even one verifiable document or photo or anything?

Not that I've seen, and the Ukrainian government says they haven't seen evidence of it either

I think it's possible the US officials that broke the story to Reuters have a 'inside source' that is actually trolling them

# ? Feb 1, 2022 02:11

CaptainACAB: Sep 14, 2021; by Jeffrey of Langley

Flavahbeast posted:

Not that I've seen, and the Ukrainian government says they haven't seen evidence of it either

I think it's possible the US officials that broke the story to Reuters have a 'inside source' that is actually trolling them

They're not trolling, they're simply trying to maximize ROI for their investors.

Also looked it up and lmao the coalition had 3x the troops to invade Iraq as Russia is currently massing to allegedly invade a country larger than Iraq. That 300k troops was wildly insufficient too and a number double that probably still would have been pushing it.

I doubt even the Pentagon is stupid enough to believe Russia would try anything with that few troops but who knows maybe the rot is too deep.

CaptainACAB has issued a correction as of 02:25 on Feb 1, 2022

# ? Feb 1, 2022 02:22

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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CaptainACAB posted:

They're not trolling, they're simply trying to maximize ROI for their investors.

Also looked it up and lmao the coalition had 3x the troops to invade Iraq as Russia is currently massing to allegedly invade a country larger than Iraq. That 300k troops was wildly insufficient too and a number double that probably still would have been pushing it.

I doubt even the Pentagon is stupid enough to believe Russia would try anything with that few troops but who knows maybe the rot is too deep.

My own town has 250K people in 5 square kilometers

So I don't think 100K troops for 600,000 square kilometers is gonna cut it

# ? Feb 1, 2022 03:21

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

https://www.ft.com/content/b02434fc-b00b-4e6b-8fc8-218601eb18ec

quote:

But the argument about Germany�s war guilt enrages Ukrainians. They counter that it was Ukraine that bore the brunt of Wehrmacht and SS atrocities between 1941-44, suffering far more civilian casualties than Russia, and so has a much greater claim on German sympathy.

The FT loving owns.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 03:29

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Kiyev is to Kiev
as
Colour Revolution is to Color Revolution

Fixed

# ? Feb 1, 2022 03:42

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

this is really incredible stuff coming out of the FT

# ? Feb 1, 2022 03:42

Atrocious Joe: Sep 2, 2011

30.5 Days posted:

I think if you wanted to get cynical about the grindr removal you could argue that china is loving with a foreign competitor to a chinese app, which they do from time to time in many different verticals.

good. an international free market on the internet only strengthens US hegemony and impoverishes other countries

# ? Feb 1, 2022 03:54

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

I�m confused why anyone thinks a massive logistical buildup in the middle of winter would even be finished before the thaw makes for hard going. An attack can�t be imminent if the timing of the logistic preparation started too late for favourable weather and terrain.

If they had built up in October or something maybe you could say they were waiting for hard ground before a winter offensive (when does the Dnieper over?), but for them to start a buildup now doesn�t make any sense.

I know pundits aren�t logisticians, but you can�t gently caress around with the stuff if you are planning on taking on prepared defences and one of Europe�s major rivers.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 03:54

Conspiratiorist: Nov 12, 2015; 17th Separate Kryvyi Rih Tank Brigade named after Konstantin Pestushko
Look to my coming on the first light of the ~~fifth~~ ~~sixth~~ some day

The buildup started last year in response to some Ukrainian movements.

Weather conditions are favorable now and other than the last EMD elements on rail to Belarus pending arrival, the 76th Guards that started moving a couple days ago, and the amphibious warships that are still crossing the Mediterranean it looks like all the equipment is in place. A staffing airlift operation would take less than 48hrs.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:06

Rutibex: Sep 9, 2001; by Fluffdaddy

Pryor on Fire posted:

I swear a new china war marketing campaign just kicked off to start the week, this poo poo is suddenly everywhere
https://twitter.com/NikkeiAsia/status/1488233180217946115

I think the china team is getting jealous of all the attention the russia team is getting lately.

team Iran getting very annoyed no one is paying attention any more

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:07

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
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Rutibex posted:

team Iran getting very annoyed no one is paying attention any more

team Kim very happy now that they have nukes, ICBMs and hypersonics

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:10

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

AnimeIsTrash posted:

https://www.ft.com/content/b02434fc-b00b-4e6b-8fc8-218601eb18ec

The FT loving owns.

That's not even true, and besides nobody suffered more proportionally than Belorussians.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:20

Mister Bates: Aug 4, 2010

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

That's not even true, and besides nobody suffered more proportionally than Belorussians.

didn�t Belarus lose like a quarter of its prewar population

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:24

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Mister Bates posted:

didn�t Belarus lose like a quarter of its prewar population

Yes.

To be fair to Ukrainians they're also way up there, but it's a joke to even play the special considerations over WW2 game this way. They want to be the special victims of the famine and WW2.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:25

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Catching covid on my flight to Ukraine then infecting the local militia

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:27

Al-Saqr: Nov 11, 2007; One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

countdown to �actually Russia was the aggressor in WW2� articles

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:28

Spergin Morlock: Aug 8, 2009

Ardennes posted:

Funny, I thought the iPhone pushed out Nokia and Motorola…anyway luckily Apple doesn’t get any type of subsidy from the US government.

Microsoft killed Nokia during their abortive attempt to become a mobile device manufacturer

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:31

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

https://twitter.com/JeremyFisherCPC/status/1488132752230780935?s=20&t=haBogO5k7-UH_GUytJkB-w

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:41

eSports Chaebol: Feb 22, 2005; Yeah, actually, gamers in the house forever,

Grapplejack posted:

Why the gently caress would Japan intervene and with what army lmao

to give us the lulz of the ROK government strongly and unequivocally supporting the SDF while polls show 99% of Koreans rooting for China to kill them all

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:49

Horseshoe theory: Mar 7, 2005

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

https://twitter.com/JeremyFisherCPC/status/1488132752230780935?s=20&t=haBogO5k7-UH_GUytJkB-w

Someone should go around posting the "Victims of Chen Weihua Memorial Foundation" picture everytime he bitchslaps another deserving goober.

Horseshoe theory has issued a correction as of 04:53 on Feb 1, 2022

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:50

Mantis42: Jul 26, 2010

how do you speak a picture

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:52

Horseshoe theory: Mar 7, 2005

Mantis42 posted:

how do you speak a picture

Isn't it worth 1,000 words...? :thunk:

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:53

Palladium: May 8, 2012; Very Good
✔️✔️✔️✔️

Horseshoe theory posted:

Someone should go around speaking the "Victims of Chen Weihua Memorial Foundation" picture everytime he bitchslaps another deserving goober.

the very enormous 50 cent chinese troll army with somehow no massive existing paper trail for the very tiny US surveillance state to latch on

# ? Feb 1, 2022 04:54

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# ? May 27, 2024 14:45

Frosted Flake: Sep 13, 2011; Semper Shitpost Ubique

Alright, let�s see:

Encyclopedia of Ukraine posted:

In winter the Dnipro freezes over, usually after a 20-day spell of subzero temperature. The average freezing and thawing dates for Kyiv are 17 December and 24 March; for Cherkasy, 23 December and 22 March; for Zaporizhia, 5 January and 9 March; for Kherson, 3 January and 3 March. The ice regime is not stable: sometimes the Dnipro freezes for short intervals, and sometimes it does not freeze at all. Ice jams and floods resulting from them are rare because the freezing moves southward and the thawing northward.

Below Kyiv, the left bank of the river is low, sandy, and often covered by pine forest. It rises towards the east in broad terraces. The river valley is wide�6�10 km, and at Pereiaslav and Cherkasy, 15�18 km�while the river is 200�1,200 m wide. Below Cherkasy the Dnipro splits into sidestreams and creates islands. Its depth varies frequently, from 1.5 to 12 m.

Source

Handbook of Soviet Operations, 1945 posted:

OPERATIONS AT RIVER LINES AND AMPHIBIOUS OPERATIONS

1. RIVER CROSSINGS
The Red Army crossed every major river in Europe between the Volga and the Elbe during the course of the war. Successive operations of many types resulted in improved techniques and new methods, such as the underwater bridge.

a. Basic doctrine. Soviet doctrine in river crossing operations places great emphasis on certain tactical measures which differ from U. S. practice, although the general principles of river-crossing operations are basically identical. All of the most successful Soviet river assaults in WorId War II were carried out on broad fronts. By restricting the crossing area to a narrow front, the Red Army appreciates, surprise is lost and enemy forces concentrate in the selected area. Diversionary or feint crossings in considerable strength are normally made to provide alternate crossing sites to which the main forces can be diverted, should the main crossings fail or be held up. The planning of the operation is detailed and intricate, and orders are given in writing. Concealment of crossing equipment and troops is carried out under the strictest discipline. The greatest single difference between Soviet and Allied river-crossing operations, however, has been in large-scale employment by the Red Army of rafts, bridge sections, and boats or ferries to transport armor, artillery, and loaded vehicles across water; whereas Allied forces generally waited until bridges were built.

Because of its superior accuracy, the Red Army places far greater reliance on artillery fire than on air action in river-crossing operations. Considerable artillery strength is concentrated, ranging up to 240 to 320 pieces of all calibers-including 120-mm mortars-per miles of front. The greatest emphasis is placed on the use of local materials for the construction of boats, rafts, and bridges. The tempo of river-crossing operations is highly variable, depending entirely on the tactical location of the river line with respect to the offensive operations. Major water barriers were often reached at the end� of extensive advances; and long periods of preparation were required, due not so much to the lack of crossing capabilities as to the need for consolidating the newly won territory and for bringing up troops and supplies. Rivers within the range of offensive objectives constituted no serious obstacles and were usually taken in stride.

h. Role of various arms in river-crossing operations.

ENGINEERS. Engineers play the dominant role in river-crossing operations. There is no essential difference between U. S. and Red Army doctrines with respect to the command responsibility or the functions of the engineer arm in the organization, the assault, or the construction phases. As in the U. S. Army, the maintenance of bridges, traffic control, and forward displacement of engineer equipment are also engineer functions in the Red Army.
River crossings on broad fronts require the concentration of far more equipment than the organic engineer units of the formation and attached GHQ engineer units can provide from their organizational equipment. The Red Army engineers have the tremendous task of constructing crossing equipment, ranging from wooden boats to heavy bridge sections, out of local materials. For example, 10,000 wooden boats were built entirely of local materials, except for nails, in 10 days prior to the crossing of the Vistula. In such situations infantry units do the work under engineer supervision. In addition, the operation of signal .stations and troop regulating points by Red Army engineers involves operational control of large bodies of troops and equipment on a broad front.

c. The preparation phase. Thorough ground reconnaissance is organized as soon as a river is reached. Aerial photographs are continuously made to supplement ground observation. Engineer recon- naissance gives particular attention to local material for use in the crossing; to the characteristics of the river, its banks, and most suitable approaches; and to enemy obstacles and defensive installations across the river. Artillery reconnaissance determines the location and strength of enemy firing positions and plans the artillery system of fire for the preparation and assault phases. Observation posts manned by officers are usually placed 1,000 yards apart with mobile observation posts covering intermediate posi- tions. Patrols of specialist troops operate along the whole front on the enemy side of the river to gain further and more detailed information, and to remove underwater obstacles such as wire entanglements, posts, and mines.

During the preparatory stage~ a period of at least 2 or 3 weeks is required to carry out the necessary concentration of forces in the area selected for the assault. This concentration is never hurried, due to the extreme emphasis placed by the Soviets on very thorough concealment.

WINTER WARFARE

The difficulties of winter conditions do not de- crease the activity of the troops. On the contrary, the Soviets make skillful use of the cold weather and snow. The long nights in which snow lessens the degree of darkness are advantageously used for maneuvering and regrouping forces. The logistics-the movement of troops and supplies-is of greatest influence. The Red Army successfully employs tracked vehicles in snow, uses tractor-drawn sled trains and, for light operations and infiltrations: highly mobile motor sleds.

The Soviets are also well aware of the fact that winter climate increases the effectiveness of persistent chemical agents, keeping them active for several weeks.

f. Engineers. The work of the Soviet engineers becomes especially important in winter operations. They are responsible for road repair and construction; the erection of warm shelters for men, horses, and materiel; employment of special kinds of winter camouflage; and for other normal engineer responsibilities. One of the main tasks~ however, is the construction of winter obstacles~ using snow and ice. The procurement of drinking water~ particularly for horses, occasionally presents difficulties.

Soviet Army: Operations and Tactics, 1984 posted:

Force Ratios
Contemporary Soviet writings indicate that an aggregate ratio of combat power of approximately 3:1 is sufficient in conducting an offensive operation or an attack against a defending enemy.

This 3:1 ratio refers to more than just cumulative numbers of first echelon troops and weapons relative to enemy troops and weapons in a given sector. It is, instead, a more sophisticated calculation of the total force, to include all maneuver units and combat support that a commander can bring to bear relative to the total force with which the enemy can oppose him. In computing his strength relative to enemy strength, a Soviet commander considers all organic, attached, and supporting combat power.

Engineer Reconnaissance
Engineers are included in all reconnaissance elements of tank and motorized rifle units. The mission of engineer reconnaissance is to report on the condition of the routes of advance for the main body. The unit perfonning the route reconnaissance must determine the following:
� Obstacles to be overcome.
� Engineer equipment required
� Conditions of crossing sites.
� Location and quantity of materials which can be used to improve the march route.
� Nature of the terrain and the location of areas that do not afford natural concealment.

Engineer reconnaissance provides information
about assembly areas, detours around obstacles, and warning of minefields and craters. Reconilaissance of water obstacles is done to find fording sites and suitable entry and exit points for amphibious combat vehicles. Detailed reconnaissance is required for bridge and ferry sites. Reconnaissance of tank fording sites require divers and a tracked amphibian with river reconnaissance devices.

Assault River Crossings
The Soviets stress that water obstacles should be crossed from the march to preclude major halts in the offense. Doctrine includes crossing these obstacles at multiple points along a broad front to overwhelm enemy defenses. Doctrine also calls for river crossings to be made at night; however, Soviet units rarely train in night river crossings. Smoke is used extensively to mask assault crossings conducted during daylight. hours.

Engineer river crossing capability is found at the regimental engineer company organic to motorized rifle and tank regiments, the division engineer bat- talion, and special engineer battalions and regiments at' front and army level. A more detailed discussion of Soviet river crossings can be found in FM 100-2-2.

Source

The Soviet Army: Specialized Warfare and Rear Area Support, 1984 posted:

River Crossings
Soviet military theorists place great emphasis on high advance rates by armor-heavy columns in the offense. The Soviets stress that this high advance rate would be important in the European theater with its "relatively small" operational depth. Such an offensive would be impossible without overcoming Europe's many north-south water obstacles. A 1965 Soviet study revealed that in the European theater, forces would encounter water obstacles up to 100 meters wide every 35 to 60 kilometers, between 100 and 300 meters wide every 100 to 150 kilometers,and greater than 300 meters wide, every 250 to 300 kilometers.
In response to these challenges, Soviet planners have devoted tremendous resources to improving the river crossing capabilities of their combat equipment. They have provided their ground forces with large stocks of specialized bridging and assault crossing equipment. River crossing figures prominently in most Soviet exercises.

Each Soviet combined arms or tank army has one ponton brigade regiment, while two may be subordinate to a front .Most PMP regiments are organized into two battalions of three companies each and have a total of 108 PMP pontons capable of bridging 681 meters. The regiment also has eight tracked amphibians (K-61 or PTS) or GSP ferries.

Assault crossing battalions that provide amphibious transport and ferry support to army or front elements can be allocated to divisions to speed up crossing operations. There is one battalion in each army, with up to three in a front If equipped with the PTS and PKP trailer, the battalion's two tracked amphibious companies are able to transport two towed artillery battalions simultaneously. Each GSP ferry can transport one Soviet medium tank.

To provide the logistic support necessary for planned rapid offensives, the Soviets have expended considerable resources to field a variety of line of communication (LOC) bridging. LOC bridges are essential for the orderly introduction of divisions and combat forces of successive echelons, as well as uninterrupted resupply of combat units. They are emplaced by troops of the Military Transportation Service. In anticipation of wartime interdiction of existing bridges, the Soviets and their allies have stockpiled obsolescent bridging and prefabricated bridge sections near strategic crossings.

Prepared River Crossings
Apparently because they expect to cross from the march at lightly defended or unoccupied sites, the Soviets devote considerably less attention to the enemy-opposed crossing .Such a crossing requires detailed planning and preparation, centralized control, and massive suppression of enemy fires.They conduct a prepared crossing from a position in contact. The prepared crossing is used as a last resort, when an assault crossing from the march fails or is not possible.

A prepared crossing requires intensive reconnaissance. By day, troops observe enemy defensive positions and activity. Under cover of darkness engineer and reconnaissance patrols measure the river, inspect obstacles, and pinpoint crossing areas.

During preparation, troops make maximum use of existing fortification as well as cover and concealment of personnel and equipment. They prepare roads and cross-country routes for movement to crossing sites,as
are assembly areas and artillery positions .Such work is performed at night under the guise of improving the defense.

Twice as many troops as had occupied defensive positions normally launched the initial assault in a pre�pared river crossing. It generally takes place either at night or under a smokescreen.An artillery preparation is fired against enemy strongpoints. Airborne or heliborne forces may be used to block enemy reinforcements. Some artillery is employed in the direct fire role to neutralize enemy weapons remaining in the enemy defensive sector.

The prepared crossing is conducted similarly to the assault crossing. Numerous APC's swim across on a broad frontage supported by all available direct and indirect fires. Tanks and other heavy weapons and equipment follow. Bridging is emplaced only when bridge sites are secure from enemy observation and direct fire.

Source

The Russian Way of War: Force Structure, Tactics, and Modernization of the Russian Ground Forces, 2019 posted:

Hydrology
Large rivers and lakes dominate Eurasia and have served as major arteries of industry and commerce, defensive barriers, lines of communication and avenues of advance. Armies are more accustomed to solving
the problem of crossing rivers rather than
controlling stretches or the entirety of the
river or lake. Yet control of the river or lake
is often more decisive to a campaign than
a crossing. In Russia, the Volga, Vistula,
Danube, Dnieper, Oder and Amur Rivers form operational/strategic barriers. The Danube,
Dnieper, Oka, Koma, Neman, Don and Amur
Rivers form avenues of approach. Lakes Ladoga, Onezh, Beloye, Il�men, and Chyda may serve as barriers or avenues of approach.
During conflict, control of the rivers and lakes is often vital to controlling a country. A brigade may engage in riverine combat and operations to deal with significant bodies of water.

In Eastern and Central Europe, an advancing or retreating army can expect to meet a six- meter wide water obstacle every 20 kilometers, up to a 100 meter-wide water obstacle
every 35-60 kilometers, a 100 to 300 meter wide obstacle every 100-150 kilometers and a water obstacle over 300 meters wide every 250-300 kilometers.35 River crossing capabilities depend, of course, on the width, current, banks, river bottom and surrounding terrain of the river crossing site. The optimum way to cross a river is over an established heavy-duty bridge or in the dead of winter when the river is frozen over solid. The Russians have amphibious personnel carriers, artillery,
air defense, and antitank combat vehicles. Tanks are equipped with snorkels and can cross rivers with good bottoms and not- too-much depth (5.5 meters). The Russians have truck-launched and tracked launched bridges for narrow waterways. They have vehicle ferries, prefabricated bridges and assault boats for major waterways. Russian engineers can also construct bridges using local materials (trees, stone). During World War II, the Russians were skilled at building underwater bridges-bridges that were a foot or so under the water so they could not be detected by aircraft, but could easily be driven over by trucks.

A hasty attack across a water obstacle from the march is conducted to maintain the high tempo of the advance, seize bridgeheads, rapidly develop the opposite shore or secure an assembly area for an upcoming operation. Water crossings differ by season and weather. In the winter, crossing depends on the strength and stability of the ice. In the spring, there is drifting ice and flooding. In the summer and fall, TO&E and attached crossing equipment
can be used. If the water obstacle is less than five meters deep, and the river banks and bottom are suitable, tanks can snorkel across. Crossing on a wide front at a quick tempo using a forward detachment or advanced guard is preferred. The crossing plan designates the crossing sector, the departure area, the attack crossing line (1 to 2 kilometers from the water�s edge), the troop embarkation or cargo loading area (5 to 6 kilometers from the water�s edge) and the tank sealing area for snorkeling (also 5 to 6 kilometers from the water�s edge). Air defense assets will cover the crossing and preparation areas. If possible, an air assault
may conduct a landing to seize the far shore.39 A deliberate attack will normally involve far more artillery and aviation preparation and involve an attack from the march through friendly forces in contact with the enemy. Smoke, air defense and counterbattery efforts will be particularly critical.

Source

So - you tell me - how it is that Russia is �imminently� going on the offensive, without building up army-level bridging equipment, in the depths of winter but before the Dnieper is frozen, where they would have to make an opposed crossing to reach Kiev?

The only way that would be a viable plan is if there was no resistance - an unopposed crossing of one of Europe�s largest and most militarily significant rivers, and the critical position for any defence of the Ukraine - in which case the Ukrainian Army has no fight in it at all, which makes the whole argument moot. If Russia can strike across that obstacle with poor weather, the worst imaginable annual ground and water conditions for crossing - and again, without any of the (very conspicuous from satellite) bridging and pontoon kit stockpiled - then we should just be grateful they don�t just roll on to Warsaw and Paris.

I know that�s a wall of text and may not make a lot of sense to people without a military background just reading it, but the two possibilities given basic operational realities are either:

A) Russia is so formidable that weather, terrain, logistics and a major river crossing don�t even require planning or stockpiling the required equipment on their end, and they expect to be unopposed - either because the Ukrainian Army won�t fight, or if they do, it�s not even worth considering in the plan - as evidenced by the timing, logistical prep and concept of operations.

If that�s the case, no Lethal aid in the world could change it, and the US should be facilitating an emergency diplomatic solution to save the Ukraine.

B) Russia is not intending to invade, because it defies every element of their own established doctrine from 1945 on.

# ? Feb 1, 2022 05:09

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Asia/Oceania] Yellen says she hopes China wont mount retaliation against any steps Washington takes

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