Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

I think it's fine if they want to release the world updates on some regular schedule, but I don't understand why they have to alternate world updates and sim updates, nor why they can only fix things when sim update time comes around.

If they're going to do it that way, just make them completely independent. Push out hotfixes as required. If third-party planes get broken, well, that sucks, but that's the nature of modding.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

hannibal
Jul 27, 2001

[img-planes]

Sagebrush posted:

I think it's fine if they want to release the world updates on some regular schedule, but I don't understand why they have to alternate world updates and sim updates, nor why they can only fix things when sim update time comes around.

If they're going to do it that way, just make them completely independent. Push out hotfixes as required. If third-party planes get broken, well, that sucks, but that's the nature of modding.

My guess is it's just team capacity and development speed. They can only do so much at a time, so better to alternate the big chunks rather than trying to do it all at once. They may just be getting over the big push to get it out on the Xbox, plus holiday breaks.

I have dipped back into trying to get MSFS working well in VR (I have an Intel 10900k + 2080 and an Index) after finding this post talking about the OpenXR Toolkit app for changing how the scaling works. I haven't been able to tune it to my satisfaction yet and may just go back to TrackIR plus my ultrawide. There's discussions on the official forums about shimmering issues in textures (I see that) and VR performance sucking in general so (hopefully) they get around to improving VR performance.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

IIRC pushing updates to XBox can be a less-than-streamlined process as well. (And while keeping PC and Xbox on the same release is annoying for the übermensch, it’s probably the right move.)

Inner Light
Jan 2, 2020



Nietzsche reference? Superior PC gamer?

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.
Got the Grassmonkey Puck to replace my lost TrackIR tiara.

I really like it! Handmade 3D printed parts by a guy in West Virginia with a huge beard and huger sim pit. I'm just using the TrackIR software and set it to the TrackIRPro mode and it works great so far, except for the middle light getting occluded by the upper light's arm, but it's not a big deal.

Lord Stimperor
Jun 13, 2018

I'm a lovable meme.

skooma512 posted:

Got the Grassmonkey Puck to replace my lost TrackIR tiara.

I really like it! Handmade 3D printed parts by a guy in West Virginia with a huge beard and huger sim pit. I'm just using the TrackIR software and set it to the TrackIRPro mode and it works great so far, except for the middle light getting occluded by the upper light's arm, but it's not a big deal.

:hfive: grassmonkey buddies! I like weirdo hobbies were you get your stuff from mysterious sasquatches on the other side of your globe.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

On that note, if any of you have a Warthog, this is an extremely good upgrade for that useless little mouse stick on the front of the throttle, and it also comes from some sort of grognard sasquatch in the UK:

https://deltasimelectronics.com/products/thumbstick-slew-sensor-adapter

Just an analog stick from a PlayStation controller, a short-run PCB with a custom microcontroller, and some 3D printed parts. Goddamn is it so much better than the stock piece. Vastly smoother and more accurate. I actually use it to select targets now!

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Since VR makes me want to vomit I'm going down the GrassMonkey route with an Ultra Widescreen. I'd like to bust out an MFD or separate display with Helios. Anyone here done it, and if so could you point me to a good tutorial?

JerikTelorian
Jan 19, 2007



VR seems ok but on the other hand I've bought hundreds of dollars of cool looking sim gear and I want to see it :colbert:

Animal
Apr 8, 2003

Sagebrush posted:

On that note, if any of you have a Warthog, this is an extremely good upgrade for that useless little mouse stick on the front of the throttle, and it also comes from some sort of grognard sasquatch in the UK:

https://deltasimelectronics.com/products/thumbstick-slew-sensor-adapter

Just an analog stick from a PlayStation controller, a short-run PCB with a custom microcontroller, and some 3D printed parts. Goddamn is it so much better than the stock piece. Vastly smoother and more accurate. I actually use it to select targets now!

I've made that upgrade. It turns the Warthog throttle from a piece of poo poo, to being just as good as a Winwing or a Virpil. It's also quite easy to do, just make sure you calibrate it after.

Vahakyla
May 3, 2013
The DCS sale on Steam will continue for 29 more hours still.
If you want to fly with Air Goons in the DCS weekly missions, a teen series fighter and Syria map, along with Gulf map will do you well.

Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.

Yooper posted:

Since VR makes me want to vomit I'm going down the GrassMonkey route with an Ultra Widescreen. I'd like to bust out an MFD or separate display with Helios. Anyone here done it, and if so could you point me to a good tutorial?

I used this one when I did it recently, using the Hornet as his example. It was helpful for at least showing that you need to set up the Viewports Interface and Monitor Setup interface before it'll work, that took me forever to figure out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59D23JQyilU

It's a bit limited if you're trying to set it up for any FC3 planes but I can at least tell you that if you're trying to get the Camera display for the Su-25 then just pull a generic Right MFD display and that will work.

Teeter
Jul 21, 2005

Hey guys! I'm having a good time, what about you?

23 Skidoo posted:

Bought both the SEM and THQ modules to attach to my VKB Gladiator NXT Premium Right handed, and am so bored trying to create 3 virtual controllers so nearly 128 buttons can be used.

Pretty much suspect at this point that without using Joystick Gremlin and something that allows for separate Vendor/Product codes to allow it to act as its own device, it may not work in Mechwarrior 5, but I've heard reports that it works with Elite: Dangerous.

Looks amazing, but have yet to actually play anything with it yet.

Did you get the GNX USB Controller (HID-Main) as well? I'm not sure if it's required in your setup since you are merging it all with the stick that already connects to PC via USB, but I do know that it helps out with windows having trouble recognizing the number of different axes involved. It sucks that it's a really confusing separate add-on but it may be the difference maker for your situation.

I bought a SEM, THQ, and FSM module that I linked with one another and added the USB controller, it all works perfectly as a singular device with buttons assigned normally (no joystick gremlin). I do have a GNXT stick as well but I did not link the extra modules to it as I wanted them physically separate on my desk. Windows sees the stick as one device and the throttle/button box as a second.

Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.

Teeter posted:

Did you get the GNX USB Controller (HID-Main) as well? I'm not sure if it's required in your setup since you are merging it all with the stick that already connects to PC via USB, but I do know that it helps out with windows having trouble recognizing the number of different axes involved. It sucks that it's a really confusing separate add-on but it may be the difference maker for your situation.

I bought a SEM, THQ, and FSM module that I linked with one another and added the USB controller, it all works perfectly as a singular device with buttons assigned normally (no joystick gremlin). I do have a GNXT stick as well but I did not link the extra modules to it as I wanted them physically separate on my desk. Windows sees the stick as one device and the throttle/button box as a second.



This is exactly how I did it as well. SEM, TQH, and FSM connected together with the USB controller so it's a separate device from the GNXT. I originally did it because I couldn't quite figure out how to get it all working when connected through the GNXT but this unintentionally ended up making configuration simpler since it shows up as a separate device (and also like Teeter, I prefer having the stick physically separated from the other modules for ergonomics, something else I hadn't planned on originally). Can't say this will solve your problem Skidoo but figured I'd add on.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Scruff McGruff posted:

I used this one when I did it recently, using the Hornet as his example. It was helpful for at least showing that you need to set up the Viewports Interface and Monitor Setup interface before it'll work, that took me forever to figure out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59D23JQyilU

It's a bit limited if you're trying to set it up for any FC3 planes but I can at least tell you that if you're trying to get the Camera display for the Su-25 then just pull a generic Right MFD display and that will work.

Cool, this worked. I spent my lunch break working on it and had some success. It's unfortunate there's not much you can export for the SU25T (compared to the other aircraft) but being bale to get the Shkval out and bigger will help immensely.

Thanks!

Scruff McGruff
Feb 13, 2007

Jesus, kid, you're almost a detective. All you need now is a gun, a gut, and three ex-wives.

Yooper posted:

Cool, this worked. I spent my lunch break working on it and had some success. It's unfortunate there's not much you can export for the SU25T (compared to the other aircraft) but being bale to get the Shkval out and bigger will help immensely.

Thanks!

Yeah, I'm hoping to eventually figure out how to get the remote display stuff working so that I can use my SurfaceBook as a touchscreen for MFDs in the future, or at least something like this Beryoza app working on my phone but for now :iiam:

If you haven't seen them yet, Capt Zeen's Helios profiles seem to be the gold standard.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Scruff McGruff posted:

Yeah, I'm hoping to eventually figure out how to get the remote display stuff working so that I can use my SurfaceBook as a touchscreen for MFDs in the future, or at least something like this Beryoza app working on my phone but for now :iiam:

If you haven't seen them yet, Capt Zeen's Helios profiles seem to be the gold standard.

I saw that, and the newer profiles for Helios 1.6 work great. But the older ones use a different workflow and I'm not sure they're even compatible with the 1.6 setup. Supposedly he's working on the 1.6 version of the SU's, but that last post was over a year ago. I found another piece of software called UltraMFD, but it looks like the dev got into a scuffle with the ED devs about it and it doesn't work on DCS 2.7.

Progress though!

Chubby Henparty
Aug 13, 2007


Playing with Helios right now in lieu of actually learning to fly better. Have used spacedesk to plug in every single old phone and tablet in the house, with Capt Zeen on the second monitor and all the buttons and lights and switches I really want to see spread over the others. Its neat.

If anyone is unlucky enough to know what ControlsIndicator_page.lua is, can you help me with sizing this? I've managed to kludge base.init into the right location on screen, but its about double the size needed

That Works
Jul 22, 2006

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy


I am wanting to get some suggestions / input on hotas hardware. I am looking to budget out an update over my current setup and buy between now and sometime this summer depending on final cost.

I use VR and will continue to do so. I have a Thrustmaster T16000M with the pedals and it works great / I could just stick with this. I don't fly civilian sims much at all / don't really want any hardware oriented towards that. I primarily play DCS and Il2, leaning much towards DCS these days. I just bought the F16 module and while having a full replica 16 setup is nice I don't want to unknowingly pigeonhole myself into a hardware setup that doesn't play nice with dual engine jets etc in the future.

I don't have a simpit set up but will probably build my own in the future. I strongly prefer having the joystick on the right and not a center mount, throttle on the left so I know that affects choices somewhat. Budget isn't fixed but would prefer closer to the $600 range than the $1000+ range. From googling around so far I see 4 options right away that I would use with my existing rudder pedals:

1. People seem to love/hate the Thrustmaster Warthog ($560 new from what I can see).

2. Comparatively is the VKB Gladiator NXT 'space combat edition' and the NXT 'Omni' throttle, together selling for $310. Are the VKB that much worse than the warthog / are they just less capable etc?

3. Also around are the Winwings Orion hotas F16-EX ($549) or (3A) Orion hotas F-18 ($399) which are their desktop versions. These seem attractive based on reviews etc but idk why the F18 one costs so much less. If I did get the F18 would it be lovely to use with an F16 etc?

I don't care too much about having full matching fidelity for individual planes vs having something that covers a lot of bases and isn't a turd or requires a ton of fiddly software and/or physical repair work etc.

Any thoughts / suggestions?

Oh yeah also definitely buying a pair of the Cougar MFD panels.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

That Works posted:

I am wanting to get some suggestions / input on hotas hardware. I am looking to budget out an update over my current setup and buy between now and sometime this summer depending on final cost.

I use VR and will continue to do so. I have a Thrustmaster T16000M with the pedals and it works great / I could just stick with this. I don't fly civilian sims much at all / don't really want any hardware oriented towards that. I primarily play DCS and Il2, leaning much towards DCS these days. I just bought the F16 module and while having a full replica 16 setup is nice I don't want to unknowingly pigeonhole myself into a hardware setup that doesn't play nice with dual engine jets etc in the future.

I don't have a simpit set up but will probably build my own in the future. I strongly prefer having the joystick on the right and not a center mount, throttle on the left so I know that affects choices somewhat. Budget isn't fixed but would prefer closer to the $600 range than the $1000+ range. From googling around so far I see 4 options right away that I would use with my existing rudder pedals:

1. People seem to love/hate the Thrustmaster Warthog ($560 new from what I can see).

2. Comparatively is the VKB Gladiator NXT 'space combat edition' and the NXT 'Omni' throttle, together selling for $310. Are the VKB that much worse than the warthog / are they just less capable etc?

3. Also around are the Winwings Orion hotas F16-EX ($549) or (3A) Orion hotas F-18 ($399) which are their desktop versions. These seem attractive based on reviews etc but idk why the F18 one costs so much less. If I did get the F18 would it be lovely to use with an F16 etc?

I don't care too much about having full matching fidelity for individual planes vs having something that covers a lot of bases and isn't a turd or requires a ton of fiddly software and/or physical repair work etc.

Any thoughts / suggestions?

Oh yeah also definitely buying a pair of the Cougar MFD panels.

If we're not dealing with civ sims, then there are a few things that are worth noting.

The first is, one of the most massive upgrades you can get is not a HOTAS at all, but rather some kind of headtracking. If you don't have that already, include that first and adjust your remaining budget accordingly. This can be had for cheap or for far too much money, and don't expect more money to yield a better solution.

Second, in a (modern) combat sim, two things will be at a premium: hats and encoders. So much of most the combat UI, especially in something like the F16, bundles together functionality in directional hats (target management, data management, comms management, sensor management, trim, countermeasures) that assume you choose between four different things… or maybe five if it's a push-hat. Encoders are worth their weight in gold since quite a few things are controlled by good old dials, and having to scroll-wheel or click-drag those into position gets tiresome and annoying. Thus, if you're wavering between two options, the one that offers more of these two will serve you better. Other buttons and switches are nice and all, but the hats and encoders will see constant use for everything.

As for your questions…

1. The TMWH is a tried and true workhorse in the segment but it is getting old. With the current price inflation from lingering parts and logistics shortfalls, it is questionable whether it's worth the price. A lot of the classic criticism has been its stiff gimbal and (even at the time) middling sensors. It was never bad, just perhaps not fully up to what people expected at the price point. It has also had its periods of shoddy build quality, but that has also been more of a subjective thing than anything that has been statistically proven in any way.

The current criticism is that it's quite simply old. The old mechanical construction isn't very sensible next to the far more easily tweakable and modable mechanisms; the old software translation layer to offer programmability doesn't hold a candle to modern hardware programming sensibilities. Its fundamental design works on the assumption that you want something planted on your desk, with a lot of heft to keep it from moving around, rather than the modern assumption that you want to be able to lighten the load and hang it from a table or chair mount, and that this should be an easy transition. It is still not bad, exactly, just… well… not modern.

2. The VKB is not strictly worse, just different. In some areas, it is better because it doesn't suffer from those old design sensibilities. You get it for less because you're not paying for that “tried and true workhorse” brand, and also because the TMWH is (almost) available at any time, whereas with some of the more boutique options, you have to wait until one is ready for shipping.

3. The difference between the two setups in large part comes down to the second point above: the hats and dials. The F-18 has fewer of them, and while having an extra throttle axis might seem like a big extra thing, it's really not. Especially not when it's something as simple and linear compared to the weird movement track of the F-16 throttle. As for issues that may arise from using a single-engine throttle in a two-engine plane, sure, the other way around is better, but it's not crippling, and in-game binds will often already offer workarounds for this — if not, combo/mode buttons and or just some hardware programming trickery can usually overcome it anyway.

As for further suggestions, if I were to ignore your budget preferences, I would also point to Virpil — in particular the CM3 throttle and Cthey're the cream of the crop, and while you may pay a premium for them, you (somewhat worryingly) get what you pay for.

Yooper
Apr 30, 2012


Tippis posted:


3. The difference between the two setups in large part comes down to the second point above: the hats and dials. The F-18 has fewer of them, and while having an extra throttle axis might seem like a big extra thing, it's really not. Especially not when it's something as simple and linear compared to the weird movement track of the F-16 throttle. As for issues that may arise from using a single-engine throttle in a two-engine plane, sure, the other way around is better, but it's not crippling, and in-game binds will often already offer workarounds for this — if not, combo/mode buttons and or just some hardware programming trickery can usually overcome it anyway.


How often does one actually move engine throttles individually in a modern jet? I've got an X56 and I'm not sure I've ever done anything but move the whole throttle.

MrYenko
Jun 18, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...

Yooper posted:

How often does one actually move engine throttles individually in a modern jet? I've got an X56 and I'm not sure I've ever done anything but move the whole throttle.

Emergency operations only. My issue is that I use my HOTAS for civilian flight sims as well, where I often use the throttles separately.

Also, I use the separate throttles on my warthog as throttle and prop lever on warbirds.

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.

Yooper posted:

How often does one actually move engine throttles individually in a modern jet? I've got an X56 and I'm not sure I've ever done anything but move the whole throttle.

Emergency operations as above, and engine start. Oh and in a absolutely tiny sliver of aircraft, it helps with the trimming procedure. :haw:
Also, if you ever want to get into flying helos (and a few things with propellers), the two side-by-side axes come in handy.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Yooper posted:

How often does one actually move engine throttles individually in a modern jet? I've got an X56 and I'm not sure I've ever done anything but move the whole throttle.

Uh I always shut down one engine when taxiing to save fuel, since that's how they do it in the airlines and any other way would ruin my immersion :spergin: :goonsay:

Bondematt
Jan 26, 2007

Not too stupid

Yooper posted:

How often does one actually move engine throttles individually in a modern jet? I've got an X56 and I'm not sure I've ever done anything but move the whole throttle.

For the F5 in DCS I have it setup so when I go over the first detent it puts the throttle into idle and I have to do it individually cause :spergin:

Edit: Not exactly modern though...

Bondematt fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Feb 3, 2022

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.

Sagebrush posted:

Uh I always shut down one engine when taxiing to save fuel, since that's how they do it in the airlines and any other way would ruin my immersion :spergin: :goonsay:

I just go 3 times as fast as any taxiway would ever permit in time compression and slam on the brakes 15 feet past the hold short line.

Live fast, don't crash, scrap your own rear end.

the milk machine
Jul 23, 2002

lick my keys

Sagebrush posted:

Uh I always shut down one engine when taxiing to save fuel, since that's how they do it in the airlines and any other way would ruin my immersion :spergin: :goonsay:

i've been doing this for fun in the cessna skymaster and then the other day i learned why the instrument panel has a big sign reading DO NOT INITIATE SINGLE ENGINE TAKE OFF :tipshat:

GreatGreen
Jul 3, 2007
That's not what gaslighting means you hyperbolic dipshit.

Sagebrush posted:

Uh I always shut down one engine when taxiing to save fuel, since that's how they do it in the airlines and any other way would ruin my immersion :spergin: :goonsay:

Will this make the plane lopsided somehow? Does each engine have a segregated series of fuel tanks? Or do both engines draw from a single, centralized fuel tank.

Asking for a friend who is a megasperg.

skooma512
Feb 8, 2012

You couldn't grok my race car, but you dug the roadside blur.
That really depends on the plane. Modern airliners handle that for you. Little planes and older planes require you to manage that.

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
every day i log on and see people people just openly admitting that they commit heinous airplane crimes in their video games and don't even pretend to adhere to the relevant FARs and all applicable placarded instructions in their aircraft

i think i'm going to be sick

INTJ Mastermind
Dec 30, 2004

It's a radial!

GreatGreen posted:

Will this make the plane lopsided somehow? Does each engine have a segregated series of fuel tanks? Or do both engines draw from a single, centralized fuel tank.

Asking for a friend who is a megasperg.

Usually it’s on the taxi in. Because you don’t want to be the rear end in a top hat holding short at the front of a 10 airplane line who can’t get his engine to start.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005
Airlines do single engine taxi in and outbound, but the specifics vary by airplane, airline, and airport.

As an example, the airline I work for briefly tested single engine taxis on our Q400 fleet, and discovered that it shreds the nosewheel tires, the airplane hates turning into the running engine if ramp is at all wet or slippery, and if the hydraulic pumps are configured wrong, the airplane basically has no brakes, so we abandoned that plan.

azflyboy fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Feb 3, 2022

the milk machine
Jul 23, 2002

lick my keys

Sapozhnik posted:

every day i log on and see people people just openly admitting that they commit heinous airplane crimes in their video games and don't even pretend to adhere to the relevant FARs and all applicable placarded instructions in their aircraft

i think i'm going to be sick

if cessna really didn't want me to INITIATE SINGLE ENGINE TAKE OFF then why give me a plane with more than one engine :colbert:

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

skooma512 posted:

That really depends on the plane. Modern airliners handle that for you. Little planes and older planes require you to manage that.

Also it doesn't matter a great deal in practice, if you're a bit unbalanced between fuel tanks on either side. It happens. In a lot of planes it's unavoidable to some degree.

Serjeant Buzfuz
Dec 5, 2009

Which two engine aircraft are capable of taking off with only one working engine?

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

HAIL TO THE VICTORS!
With a long enough runway probably quite a few.

Even big jets like the 777 are able to take off with one engine and MUST do so if an engine fails above V1 speed (the speed at which you don’t have enough runway left to safely stop).

Obviously if the engine fails before you start takeoff or below V1 you would abort. But hypothetically with a long enough runway you could get from 0 to V1 with one engine and takeoff at Vr.

Zero One fucked around with this message at 05:05 on Feb 4, 2022

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005
Like Zero One said, with a long enough runway, probably any transport category airplane certified since the 1970's or so.

At low speeds, the limiting factor would be the ability of the nosewheel steering to keep the airplane tracking straight down the runway (especially with wing mounted engines), but once you have enough airflow that the rudder is effective, the issue is simply having enough runway available.

On piston twins weighing less than 6000lbs, the FAA's certification requirements simply state that the single engine climb gradient "must be determined", which means it's totally fine if that happens to be a negative number and the airplane can't maintain altitude on one engine.

FunOne
Aug 20, 2000
I am a slimey vat of concentrated stupidity

Fun Shoe

GreatGreen posted:

Will this make the plane lopsided somehow? Does each engine have a segregated series of fuel tanks? Or do both engines draw from a single, centralized fuel tank.

Asking for a friend who is a megasperg.

Search for the Turbine Pilot’s Flight Manual. Everything you wanted to know about aircraft systems.

azflyboy
Nov 9, 2005

GreatGreen posted:

Will this make the plane lopsided somehow? Does each engine have a segregated series of fuel tanks? Or do both engines draw from a single, centralized fuel tank.

Asking for a friend who is a megasperg.

There's a ton of different ways to set up fuel systems, but most large airplanes built in the last 30-40 years are generally set up so that each engine has a dedicated "tank" (which may be several interconnected tanks) it draws fuel from, with the capability to transfer fuel between tanks and/or crossfeed fuel so that any given engine can pull fuel from the tank supplying a different engine in the event an engine fails or there's a fuel transfer/imbalance issue or some kind of leak.

On airplanes that have center body fuel tanks in addition to wing tanks, the body tanks are generally used to top off the tanks that actually supply the engines, and the engines don't directly draw from the body tank.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
pro gamer strat: create a deliberate fuel imbalance to counteract propeller torque on a plane that lacks aileron trim

(probably don't try this irl)

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply