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Sinteres posted:It's one part of a broader discussion on why the sides view the guarantees differently today, not one weird trick to make guarantees not matter at all. In any case, Yeltsin believed he'd received assurances as well. It's like a third of the entire tweet thread, if you disagree with it so much idk why you linked that tweet thread
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Feb 2, 2022 20:44
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Herstory Begins Now posted:It's like a third of the entire tweet thread, if you disagree with it so much idk why you linked that tweet thread I'm not sure what you read, but no it's not. Besides, I don't have to agree with every point raised in a discussion to think it's worth reading.
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Feb 2, 2022 20:47
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Maybe Putin's plan is to permanently have Russian troops on the Ukrainian border to create a permanent sense of unease.
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Feb 2, 2022 21:02
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Sinteres posted:No, because real progress has been made toward Ukrainian integration in the Western alliance during the crisis. And why do you suppose that is?
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Feb 2, 2022 21:12
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:And why do you suppose that is? If you'd read the whole paragraph you'd know my answer. Sinteres posted:No, because real progress has been made toward Ukrainian integration in the Western alliance during the crisis. Putin needs something to show for all of this or he just made the situation worse for no reason. Which may be the end result! I'm not saying he's made good decisions here, just that nobody's making it any easier for him to back down.
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Feb 2, 2022 21:14
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https://www.lsm.lv/raksts/zinas/latvija/viendzimuma-paru-gimenu-tiesibas-piedava-sargat-ar-civilas-savienibas-likumu.a441739/ So, what’s good on Latvian Twitter? 
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Feb 2, 2022 21:57
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Is there no end to the enroachment of NATO homonazis?? Time for the Latgalian People's Republic to rise up
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Feb 2, 2022 22:19
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Exactly my point.
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Feb 2, 2022 22:20
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https://mobile.twitter.com/200_zoka/status/1488844089730781184 Kadyrovtsy being moved towards Ukraine. Just more bluffing.
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Feb 2, 2022 22:42
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Somaen posted:Is there no end to the enroachment of NATO homonazis?? Time for the Latgalian People's Republic to rise up FYI, the deep lore meme here is to proclaim the Latgalian Kingdom. I tell you that as someone Latgalian enough to qualify as native Latgalian speaker.
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Feb 2, 2022 22:42
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cinci zoo sniper posted:FYI, the deep lore meme here is to proclaim the Latgalian Kingdom. I tell you that as someone Latgalian enough to qualify as native Latgalian speaker. How much does the average person from Daugavpils identify with that? Lithuania had a sort of a temperature check going on in 2014 where the polish minority around Vilnius was being riled up against the government trying to see how big of an internal crisis can be generated by the example of Donbas. It failed as the minorities in LT are reasonably well integrated, but maybe if gay marriage comes up violent rebellion to secede to Poland will come to the table
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Feb 3, 2022 00:19
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cinci zoo sniper posted:FYI, the deep lore meme here is to proclaim the Latgalian Kingdom. I tell you that as someone Latgalian enough to qualify as native Latgalian speaker. Excuse me this is some Ancient Finnish Empire erasure and the Finno-Korean Hyperwar is a turning point in the history of Europe
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Feb 3, 2022 00:33
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Somaen posted:How much does the average person from Daugavpils identify with that? To be clear, the Latgalian Kingdom meme involves biblical flood eradicating non-Latgalians, or Riga at the very least. Context being that we’re like Latvian Scotland/Bavaria, and traditionally refer (with humour) to Latvians elsewhere in Latvia in purely derogatory terms. Daugavpils is often regarded as a Russian city-state, but that’s mostly an excuse to deprive them of funding, and to discriminate against regional politicians there. In reality, any secession scenarios in Latvia are far fetched, since the secessionable bit is already in Russia (Abrene). Returning to the topic of Daugavpils, however, it’s nowhere near as Russian as people from elsewhere deem it to be. I have relatives there, and studied there for 3 years, and the most that I can say about it is “a bit more Russian than the rest of Latgale, or Riga”.
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Feb 3, 2022 00:33
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CommieGIR posted:Exactly my point. We have revised our language to "неминуче"
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Feb 3, 2022 00:45
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https://i.imgur.com/wCa2BTq.mp4
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Feb 3, 2022 00:55
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Such bellicose language! I'm appalled by such imperialist rhetoric as "respecting other nations' sovereignty". When will the warmongers just accept that the weak submitting to the strong is the natural order of things?? Is this really acceptable language from the US given the current tensions? Of course, the "logic" never considers that Russia is, itself, a fundamentally weak country which must submit to Western might. Power is treated as purely kinetic potential, with zero regard for the real economic costs that Russia is clearly unsure it can bear.
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Feb 3, 2022 01:27
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Cugel the Clever posted:Of course, the "logic" never considers that Russia is, itself, a fundamentally weak country which must submit to Western might. a "fundamentally weak" country that could kill more people than both world wars in a couple of hours. States can be military super powers without being economic powers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/put-your-coffee-down-how-many-millions-people-would-die-nuclear-war-53567 
FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Feb 3, 2022 |
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Feb 3, 2022 01:47
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FishBulbia posted:a "fundamentally weak" country that could kill more people than both world wars in a couple of hours. States can be military super powers without being economic powers.
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Feb 3, 2022 01:56
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FishBulbia posted:a "fundamentally weak" country that could kill more people than both world wars in a couple of hours. States can be military super powers without being economic powers. Laughing that anybody still thinks Russia would go full exchange over Ukraine. Invading is one thing, but they are not going to touch MAD over Ukraine.
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Feb 3, 2022 02:04
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CommieGIR posted:Laughing that anybody still thinks Russia would go full exchange over Ukraine. Invading is one thing, but they are not going to touch MAD over Ukraine. But it's pretty ridiculous to say that Russia is "fundamentally weak" when it is like one of the 3 countries that could just end humanity. A good comparison in actually 18th century Prussia. A state only significant because of its coercive capabilities. Wait til you learn about "escalate to deescalate"
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Feb 3, 2022 02:12
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CommieGIR posted:Laughing that anybody still thinks Russia would go full exchange over Ukraine. Invading is one thing, but they are not going to touch MAD over Ukraine. If Ukraine survives the current crisis, all they'd have to do is make some conventional long-range ballistic missiles to make Russia seriously reconsider their aggressions. You don't have to erase Moscow to cause serious issues, just be able to hit key targets in it with only 5 minute warning time. And the bonus is Russia is pretty much limited to a conventional response, unless they want a radioactive cloud drifting over their own industrial core. Again.
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Feb 3, 2022 02:16
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Orthanc6 posted:If Ukraine survives the current crisis, all they'd have to do is make some conventional long-range ballistic missiles to make Russia seriously reconsider their aggressions. I think you're describing part of why Russia has an incentive to do what they can now.
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Feb 3, 2022 02:18
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FishBulbia posted:But it's pretty ridiculous to say that Russia is "fundamentally weak" when it is like one of the 3 countries that could just end humanity. A good comparison in actually 18th century Prussia. A state only significant because of its coercive capabilities. 
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Feb 3, 2022 02:23
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Orthanc6 posted:If Ukraine survives the current crisis, all they'd have to do is make some conventional long-range ballistic missiles to make Russia seriously reconsider their aggressions. You don't have to erase Moscow to cause serious issues, just be able to hit key targets in it with only 5 minute warning time. And the bonus is Russia is pretty much limited to a conventional response, unless they want a radioactive cloud drifting over their own industrial core. Again. Russia has long range conventional missiles of its own. And more of them. But please, continue to fantasise about why the dirtbag nazi country deserves to hold Russia hostage by placing missiles along its border aimed at them. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 3, 2022 02:24
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No, I think they do. There is a reason why Ukraine isn't in NATO.
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Feb 3, 2022 02:27
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It's cool how Russia can simultaneously be a pitifully weak country and also this scary monster that needs to be contained by a continually expanding transatlantic alliance. Unless you're American or (maybe) Chinese you have a pretty weird perspective if you're calling Russia weak militarily, even leaving nukes out of it entirely.
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Feb 3, 2022 02:28
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This is actually hilarious but unfortunately they do know he can
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Feb 3, 2022 02:29
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Regarde Aduck posted:Russia has long range conventional missiles of its own. And more of them. Putin's the bad neighbor here. How many Iskanders does he have on his border pointed at Ukraine right now? and the "dirtbag nazi country" is surprisingly tolerant compared to some in the region 
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Feb 3, 2022 02:37
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Regarde Aduck posted:Russia has long range conventional missiles of its own. And more of them. When people were trying to identify what discourse crosses the line in this thread, the disgusting tankie bullshit of reducing the countries between Germany and Russia into caricatures of racist (  )unwashed white savages deserving of Russian abuse (nay, perhaps only controllable by it) is definitely so over the line that it's drat near occupying Kiev.
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Feb 3, 2022 02:42
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FishBulbia posted:No, I think they do. There is a reason why Ukraine isn't in NATO. Sinteres posted:It's cool how Russia can simultaneously be a pitifully weak country and also this scary monster that needs to be contained by a continually expanding transatlantic alliance. Unless you're American or (maybe) Chinese you have a pretty weird perspective if you're calling Russia weak militarily, even leaving nukes out of it entirely. That fundamental weakness does not mean it's incapable of hurting a fuckton of innocent people in an effort to demonstrate its strength by preying on countries weaker still than it.
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Feb 3, 2022 02:42
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Orthanc6 posted:If Ukraine survives the current crisis, all they'd have to do is make some conventional long-range ballistic missiles to make Russia seriously reconsider their aggressions. You don't have to erase Moscow to cause serious issues, just be able to hit key targets in it with only 5 minute warning time. And the bonus is Russia is pretty much limited to a conventional response, unless they want a radioactive cloud drifting over their own industrial core. Again. Yes I am sure it's a fantastic idea to launch long range ballistic missiles at Moscow. Please don't nuke us, they're just boring old conventional warheads - we promise!
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Feb 3, 2022 02:44
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I am going to double post just to reiterate how awful of an idea "throw some conventional ballistic missile warheads at Moscow" is, especially when you could accomplish basically the same thing with small drones launching strikes on Russian targets without daring Russia to nuke you before they find out if your ballistic missile warheads are nuclear or not.
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Feb 3, 2022 02:52
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Cugel the Clever posted:That fundamental weakness does not mean it's incapable of hurting a fuckton of innocent people in an effort to demonstrate its strength by preying on countries weaker still than it. Which is about 190 countries, including all of Eurasia besides China and India.
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Feb 3, 2022 02:57
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Flavahbeast posted:Putin's the bad neighbor here. How many Iskanders does he have on his border pointed at Ukraine right now? I think this was the same poll that found that like 24% of Russians don't want Chechens as citizens...
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Feb 3, 2022 03:07
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FishBulbia posted:But it's pretty ridiculous to say that Russia is "fundamentally weak" when it is like one of the 3 countries that could just end humanity. A good comparison in actually 18th century Prussia. A state only significant because of its coercive capabilities. When someone says, "fundamentally weak", what they mean is that they are weak in their foundations. One can hardly point at the Russian economy and most Russian institutions as being anything but weak. Nukes don't pave roads and tamp down corruption. Putin is doing all of this (including what I think will be a probable invasion) because the state that he has built cannot or will not deal with the foundational issues facing Russians today.
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Feb 3, 2022 03:12
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FishBulbia posted:I think this was the same poll that found that like 24% of Russians don't want Chechens as citizens... I don't think theres anything about Chechens in it, I took it from this poll: https://www.pewforum.org/2017/05/10/religious-belief-and-national-belonging-in-central-and-eastern-europe/ (full PDF: https://www.pewforum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2017/05/CEUP-FULL-REPORT.pdf )
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Feb 3, 2022 03:17
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I'm sad that Turkey wasn't included since they're partially in Eastern Europe too.
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Feb 3, 2022 03:24
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Giggle Goose posted:When someone says, "fundamentally weak", what they mean is that they are weak in their foundations. One can hardly point at the Russian economy and most Russian institutions as being anything but weak. Nukes don't pave roads and tamp down corruption. Putin is doing all of this (including what I think will be a probable invasion) because the state that he has built cannot or will not deal with the foundational issues facing Russians today. Ability to murder ≠ strength.
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Feb 3, 2022 03:25
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Cugel the Clever posted:Ability to murder ≠ strength. this is good to know, surely then ukraine can easily win a war with russia. they should invade ASAP to put an end to this charade
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Feb 3, 2022 03:27
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"They don't know I put Polonium in the tea"
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Feb 3, 2022 03:45
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