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cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
There's a few hints of the door boss concept even outside of savage. Ruby weapon has a checkpoint at the end of the first phase, so you save your progress if you wipe. But if you re-instance, you'd have to reclear it

Heavensward played around a bit in that space with the Faust fights, which were basically just straight tank/heal/dps checks with no mechanics, that you had to go through every time you did the fight. My guess is they existed to try to enforce the 2 tank/2 heal/4 dps comp, since so many fights in ARR went 5 DPS.

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Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Emerald EX had a door boss too, IIRC.

Oneiros
Jan 12, 2007



i would like to thank Godbert Manderville himself for getting my dumb can't-count-to-four rear end to see p1s enrage. you are a saint. 10/10 would flare bomb the party again

Thundarr
Dec 24, 2002


First night of phase 2 prog, and at least we saw the end of Act 2 once. With most of us dead, but still.

Also, halfway through the MT's armor completely broke and he has no crafters leveled. Good thing he still had his level 80 gear on him. :tipshat:

Alxprit
Feb 7, 2015

<click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Aren't all of the weapons doors? I feel like every oversoul they did was a "reset the limit gauge" situation. Also if you got past the button mashing in Seat of Sacrifice you could start the fight from after it

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

Alxprit posted:

Aren't all of the weapons doors? I feel like every oversoul they did was a "reset the limit gauge" situation. Also if you got past the button mashing in Seat of Sacrifice you could start the fight from after it

I think diamond weapon didn't have a checkpoint

Gobbeldygook
May 13, 2009
Hates Native American people and tries to justify their genocides.

Put this racist on ignore immediately!

hopeandjoy posted:

WHM isn't awful, it's slightly underpowered compared to other healers at the moment and that's why people who main it are complaining. It's a perfectly viable class and plays well.
WHM are very salty right now because there's one ability in p3s that's an ordeal if your group has a WHM but that an AST can completely bypass by pressing Macrocosmos.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


cheetah7071 posted:

I think diamond weapon didn't have a checkpoint

It did not, Diamond Weapon in general is disappointing as a finale for that trial series because it's not much like the other ones, besides being a big robot.

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream
WHM mains complaining that they're not insanely good for one expac instead just Still loving Great.

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


cheetah7071 posted:

I think diamond weapon didn't have a checkpoint

And it was a better fight for it.

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Gobbeldygook posted:

WHM are very salty right now because there's one ability in p3s that's an ordeal if your group has a WHM but that an AST can completely bypass by pressing Macrocosmos.

My static is WHM/SCH and we do that mechanic legit, it's not too bad from what I've heard.

limp dick calvin
Sep 1, 2006

Strepitoso. Vedete? Una meraviglia.

Gonna make a Ninja macro about how ninjitsu combos are too hard to remember and I'm sorry

S.J.
May 19, 2008

Just who the hell do you think we are?

a kitten posted:

https://twitter.com/Mcstronghuge/status/1487899228252819462?t=3ppQXnzHpdiQb2dDwOPG1A&s=19

I saw a handful of other people retweet denmo. Not quite the reach of Lice Cream's macro which I seem to see popping up in various places over and over again, but it's still fun to see I guess :shobon:

thighness is bae this tracks

limp dick calvin
Sep 1, 2006

Strepitoso. Vedete? Una meraviglia.
I am going to use one of my core skills, huton

gently caress doton
gently caress, rabbit hat

W.T. Fits
Apr 21, 2010

Ready to Poyozo Dance all over your face.
Tried out Endwalker EX 2 for the first time tonight with some people from my FC. Managed to see the enrage twice, and cleaned up 15% on the second enrage, which we were told wasn't bad for a first practice run at learning the fight.

Also finally got my last crafting job to 90 and got the last of the wolf mounts I needed from the Stormblood trials. So tonight was a productive night. :)

Kaubocks
Apr 13, 2011

Lord_Magmar posted:

It did not, Diamond Weapon in general is disappointing as a finale for that trial series because it's not much like the other ones, besides being a big robot.

they shouldn't put minute~ long cutscenes in content they want you to run 50-99 times for a mount

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

WHM mains complaining that they're not insanely good for one expac instead just Still loving Great.

White Mages weren't even Still loving Great in ARR. They've always been fine, but always the worst meta pick (except 3.0 AST). They've never been insanely good.

Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Feb 4, 2022

aers
Feb 15, 2012

Thundarr posted:

I like how I know my dancer opener had lots of crits when I start Pinax at #3 on the enmity list instead of #7 (due to all the heals going out).

Yeah I never look at ACT during a pull so I just compare my threat to the NIN's after the opener to know if we popped off or not

jalapeno_dude
Apr 10, 2015
Several MSQ trials also checkpoint. The level 79 trial and the 5.3 trial definitely do, and I believe the capstone 5.0 trial does as well since the healthbar resets, but not totally sure about that one.

Come to think of it I guess you could view the two-phase fights in the Praetorium and the 3.0 capstone dungeon as having checkpoints, though it feels a bit different.

jalapeno_dude fucked around with this message at 10:03 on Feb 4, 2022

Tamba
Apr 5, 2010

Gobbeldygook posted:

WHM are very salty right now because there's one ability in p3s that's an ordeal if your group has a WHM but that an AST can completely bypass by pressing Macrocosmos.
I'm Sage, with a WHM co-healer and the ordeal is "having to cast Cure3 twice".
That, together with a buffed Pneuma is enough to top off everyone but one tank, who gets an extra OGCd heal from me (the other tank is a Warrior)

MatteusTheCorrupt
Nov 1, 2010

jalapeno_dude posted:

Several MSQ trials also checkpoint. The level 79 trial and the 5.3 trial definitely do, and I believe the capstone 5.0 trial does as well since the healthbar resets, but not totally sure about that one.

Come to think of it I guess you could view the two-phase fights in the Praetorium and the 3.0 capstone dungeon as having checkpoints, though it feels a bit different.

Checkpoints in trials are usually signposted by the limit bar resetting, so if it doesn't it is likely not a checkpoint.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Kaubocks posted:

they shouldn't put minute~ long cutscenes in content they want you to run 50-99 times for a mount

Remove the cutscenes from the extreme mode (like SoS) or make them skippable then. The fact that Ruby Weapon and Emerald Weapon are much more interesting narratives due to the respective second phases is good and Diamond Weapon not having that is disappointing.

But also people are looking for different things from this game sometimes.

Also mounts probably should be easier to brute force than 99 totems.

Lord_Magmar fucked around with this message at 11:40 on Feb 4, 2022

Endorph
Jul 22, 2009

i think removing them from the extreme modes would be fine, though there's a couple phase transitions that only exist in extreme/savage

Sanguinia
Jan 1, 2012

~Everybody wants to be a cat~
~Because a cat's the only cat~
~Who knows where its at~

The Heavensward LP reaches the grand finale of 3.0.

Heroic Yoshimitsu
Jan 15, 2008

So… how do I know if I’m a good tank? Is there mere fact I don’t die during pulls and the healer isn’t yelling at me enough to know? There’s a part of me that’s like, “if your health gets TOO low, that means you’re doing a bad job”, which I feel like can’t be right either. I’m using cooldowns on every pull and every tank buster I see, but not stacking them, plus using my short cool mitigation (ie bloodwhetting) liberally

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:

So… how do I know if I’m a good tank? Is there mere fact I don’t die during pulls and the healer isn’t yelling at me enough to know? There’s a part of me that’s like, “if your health gets TOO low, that means you’re doing a bad job”, which I feel like can’t be right either. I’m using cooldowns on every pull and every tank buster I see, but not stacking them, plus using my short cool mitigation (ie bloodwhetting) liberally

Everything you describe basically makes you A Good Tank. Any further failures are due to the healer not doing their job or the dps not aoeing fast enough.

My Crab is Fight
Mar 13, 2007

Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:

So… how do I know if I’m a good tank? Is there mere fact I don’t die during pulls and the healer isn’t yelling at me enough to know? There’s a part of me that’s like, “if your health gets TOO low, that means you’re doing a bad job”, which I feel like can’t be right either. I’m using cooldowns on every pull and every tank buster I see, but not stacking them, plus using my short cool mitigation (ie bloodwhetting) liberally

You pretty much are doing good yeah, just make sure your gear is kind of up-to-date while levelling and remember Arm's Length is a secret defensive cooldown on trash pulls and it's all good!

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:

So… how do I know if I’m a good tank? Is there mere fact I don’t die during pulls and the healer isn’t yelling at me enough to know? There’s a part of me that’s like, “if your health gets TOO low, that means you’re doing a bad job”, which I feel like can’t be right either. I’m using cooldowns on every pull and every tank buster I see, but not stacking them, plus using my short cool mitigation (ie bloodwhetting) liberally

Did you survive? Did your party survive? Are you moving through the dungeon swiftly by pulling at least 2-3 groups of enemies? Congratulations, you're a good tank!

Where your HP levels stand is actually not a decision you're making - you're only affecting how fast they drop by using cooldowns appropriately. It's your healer who decides how low they are comfortable with letting you drop, and if they're a good healer, they'll know how to let you drop pretty low while still keeping you alive.

Now sometimes playing well as a tank but being paired with a bad or even just unprepared/undergeared healer can result in wipes. The tricky thing is to recognize when that's happening and adjust your behaviors (e.g. pull smaller) to compensate.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"


Endorph posted:

i think removing them from the extreme modes would be fine, though there's a couple phase transitions that only exist in extreme/savage

To be fair this is because they added those second phases to those fights, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing provided they’re like short things and you can skip them imo.

But stuff like Ruby/Emerald Weapons transition videos are a bit long to still be in extreme I agree.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
Your hp levels do become your choice above levels 82/84 on three of the four tanks in the game.

Madmarker
Jan 7, 2007

Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:

So… how do I know if I’m a good tank? Is there mere fact I don’t die during pulls and the healer isn’t yelling at me enough to know? There’s a part of me that’s like, “if your health gets TOO low, that means you’re doing a bad job”, which I feel like can’t be right either. I’m using cooldowns on every pull and every tank buster I see, but not stacking them, plus using my short cool mitigation (ie bloodwhetting) liberally

You want to know if you are a good tank? Queue up for some Heavensward or Stormblood leveling dungeons as a DPS or Healer and watch all the irritating things the tank does.

You will see all sorts of nonsense there, Tanks not using AOE on mob pulls, not using their defensive cool downs, NOT HAVING THEIR JOB STONE IN, and reliving their favorite Flo Rida/Dead or Alive hit, "Spin the Boss Right Round". If you can honestly say that your are doing the opposite of these people you are at least a competent tank.

Madmarker fucked around with this message at 14:18 on Feb 4, 2022

Heroic Yoshimitsu
Jan 15, 2008

Oh yeah, I use arms length too. I try to use that or reprisal after my mitigation ends.

kitten emergency
Jan 13, 2008

get meow this wack-ass crystal prison
something I’ve been curious about - is it better to stack reprisal/arms length, or to roll them one after the other?

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.

Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:

Oh yeah, I use arms length too. I try to use that or reprisal after my mitigation ends.

Here's how I do it. This isn't necessarily right, but it's how I like to do things on warrior in Endwalker dungeons. This keeps me alive when running triple dps.

I don't pop sprint until right before I start to grab the first pack. I will overpower one mob, onslaught into another, and (if necessary) orogeny if the overpower didn't hit both. I'll pop infuriate on my way to the second pack, onslaught into them, and mythril tempest the second pack. Around now the first pack should have caught up with me, and I'll pop bloodwhetting and arm's length followed by chaotic cyclone, inner release, primal rend, (if it's a big pack thrill of the battle here), and then decimate x 3. Usually after the third decimate I pop rampart and proceed to my regular aoe rotation. When I get to half hp, I'll pop equilibrium. The dot from that plus the defense buff from rampart is typically enough to keep me up until bloodwhetting is off cooldown. From there I look and see how much hp is left on the mobs. If it's gonna be another 4-5 GCDs, I'll use bloodwhetting. If everything is under 5% (which is should be if you're triple dps or your healer is just pure dpsing), no other cooldowns are necessary.

For the next pack most of the cooldowns used will still be unavailable. Arm's length and thrill won't be useful on this pack at all because they'll come off cd near the end. I'll grab the packs in similar fashion, but I'll pop shake it off right before I grab the second pack. That gives me a little shield to start before I pop bloodwhetting. Since I don't have arm's length, I'll pop vengeance after one or two GCDs of bloodwhetting. Reprisal comes out as well if needed. After that the cupboard is a bit low, but I've still got holmgang, so I'll let myself deliberately dip down to about 25%, pop holmgang, and only hit equilibrium if I get to 1hp. Before holmgang is up, bloodwhetting is back, and all of the pack should be at sub 15% or down to just one or two mobs that aren't going to kill you with your natural regen.

By the time the boss does his first partywide attack, shake it off and reprisal should be off cooldown and ready to use. If any dps gets hit by an individual mechanic, use nascent flash on them. Use equilibrium and thrill for your own healing when that happens.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.

kitten emergency posted:

something I’ve been curious about - is it better to stack reprisal/arms length, or to roll them one after the other?

I rarely double stack any defensive buff and usually stagger them a few gcds. All of the cooldowns reduce the efficacy of others to some extent. Arm's length slows the enemy and changes 5 gcds to 4 effectively a 20% reduction in enemy output. Reprisal will straight cause all of them to do 10% less damage. This will mean you're taking 72% of the original damage dealt over 5 gcds. You're not getting the full juice out of that reprisal, but it's still doing a lot of good. The more cooldowns you use, though, the more diminishing returns you receive.

Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Feb 4, 2022

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

I like to use Arm's Length early in a pull since the slow lasts a good amount of time and is most impactful when there are more enemies to be slowed. The only time I don't is if I'm running with a White Mage because then the enemies will be stunned anyway and I can save Arm's Length for after the Holy stuns taper off.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.

Harrow posted:

I like to use Arm's Length early in a pull since the slow lasts a good amount of time and is most impactful when there are more enemies to be slowed. The only time I don't is if I'm running with a White Mage because then the enemies will be stunned anyway and I can save Arm's Length for after the Holy stuns taper off.

This is correct. Don't use any cooldowns until the second holy stun has wore off.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
I'm half tempted to whip out my ipad and draw up diagrams for marginal utility of defensive cooldowns but I'm sure someone else already has.

M.c.P
Mar 27, 2010

Stop it.
Stop all this nonsense.

Nap Ghost
If you’re concerned about your hp bar as a tank, then what you want as much as possible is a slow, consistent drop. If it’s not moving, then you’re over stacking mitigation, and need to save something for later so your hp doesn’t spike down after it wears off. If it’s just chunking down really fast, add mitigation. If you did and it’s still chunking down fast, you may be undergeared.

Healers get caught out by rapid spikes in hp, not by the actual numbers. If your health is slowly dropping low, and you get just enough green numbers to not die, that’s good mitigation on your part and a good, confident healer with you.

And if you follow these rules and have to use most of your buttons/run out? That’s a dps problem and you may need to pull less while you get some buttons back.

Edit: oh, and use your best buttons at the start of the pull, when you’re taking the most damage. White mages change that up though, cuz holy stun. People above have good tips there.

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Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
On bosses, use your short cooldown plus a long cooldown on tankbusters. Other than that, hit reprisal and your raidwide buffs on big aoe attacks.

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