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Jaxyon posted:I'd reverse it. White fragility discussion is often the result of thought terminating behavior. When someone refuses to engage with concepts that find uncomfortable, or discussion of racism at a level beyond superficial, it's a form of oppression and putting limits on the range of accepted debate. Indeed, when I said I suspect that's not how it's normally used, I meant that it would probably not be used to shut down a robust and well considered argument. I imagine most uses are in very emotional and fraught exchanges. However, your claim that it doesn't terminate any discussion I must take issue with, since that would include one where it was a response to a substantive argument, and it would be shifting discussion away from the argument to the qualities of the person making it. Though I suppose that wouldn't truly be "terminating" thought completely, just terminating a particular line of it in favor of another.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:31
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mawarannahr posted:I don’t like to leave without a contribution so here’s something current, lighthearted, and super hosed up that I think ought to be a laugh. I did have a lol at them solely interviewing people from Fisher Island, Venetians, and the Gables (for non-South Floridians: enclaves of super rich people). What, they couldn't rustle up someone from Star Island to chat with?
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Feb 4, 2022 20:32
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RNC appears to now believe 1/6 was not Antifa https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1489670105768370177?s=20&t=Ms5GQUMzwI3NRrwJS3yNmw
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Feb 4, 2022 20:38
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PeterCat posted:That's fine. Debates should be eliminated anyway. They're just a ratings grab by the networks, they're not equitable in anyway, and are just a way for candidates to get soundbites out there. Yeah I said this before but debates are pure theater for the sake of tradition. All the candidates know what kinds of questions will get asked and they have teams of people who coach them on canned answers for everything. They all just tell you what they think you want to hear and once in a while try to get a zinger in for the reality tv watching crowd or whatever. Also someone else pointed out that a recent proof of this was Kamala Harris saying "It was just a debate!" when called out for her actions not aligning with her most famous debate statement.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:38
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PeterCat posted:Yeah, I can't imagine why your dad would be pissed that you called him a lucky ducky for performing demeaning manual labor to feed you. Please reconsider what you think privilege means.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:44
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Koos Group posted:Indeed, when I said I suspect that's not how it's normally used, I meant that it would probably not be used to shut down a robust and well considered argument. I imagine most uses are in very emotional and fraught exchanges. However, your claim that it doesn't terminate any discussion I must take issue with, since that would include one where it was a response to a substantive argument, and it would be shifting discussion away from the argument to the qualities of the person making it. Though I suppose that wouldn't truly be "terminating" thought completely, just terminating a particular line of it in favor of another. I think that both "white fragility" and "white privilege" are to some extent abstractions from the 'real' topic in order to cater to the sensibilities of whites, in other words to avoid discussion of the elephant that is "it's racism". White privilege is basically talking about the fact that as a white person, we benefit from being white people in a white supremacist society despite the fact that we might not benefit as much as some, or the fact that we never asked for it. Another way to put it is "White privilege doesn't mean you can't be poor and white, it just means you're not poor because you're white" This talks to people about how they benefit from racism, and that makes people uncomfortable when again, it's just a way of saying "racism exists and you benefit from it". White fragility is about how white people can't handle honest and uncomfortable discussions about race and often don't want to change that. So we use social power in order to change that discussion, or end that discussion. But in end it's just a way of saying "racism exists and as a white I'm going to use it to stop talking about it." Both of these are a way to more gently approach the topic of racism in a way that doesn't upset, scare, or anger whites. But as we've seen some posters in this thread say, both of those terms tend to put whites on the defensive and people complain. But they're already compromised terms. Now we have a push to make them even gentler, but the truth is that talking about racism is uncomfortable, and especially so if you belong to the group doing the oppression. There's never going to be a terminology gentle enough to not trigger defensiveness in whites. Lib and let die posted:Please reconsider what you think privilege means. Yeah this is what I mean. The actual concept is "due to racism, we were poor but not as poor as we'd be if we were black". That's both anedotally and statistically true. But that is also unlikely to get a good response from your father, so we try to abstract it a bit, and he finds a different way to get mad. But one even farther removed from the real concept, which is that racism exists and your family benefited from it. Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 20:46
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These two grafs from that FT Miami story were quite the wild ride:quote:Rabois has been searching his whole life for a place where his Nietzschean version of freedom would be embraced. He was an outsider in college, where he was an editor at the conservative Stanford Review. He was run out of Stanford Law School in 1992 for yelling “Hope you die of Aids” outside a lecturer’s home, transferring to Harvard Law School. An adviser to Dan Quayle’s presidential campaign, he didn’t fit in socially with many of his Silicon Valley colleagues. Miami, he now believes, is Silicon Valley in 1999.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:52
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Willa Rogers posted:These two grafs from that FT Miami story were quite the wild ride: Miami, notably one of the first likely mainland victims of Climate Change and Sea Level rise.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:53
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The Federal Reserve says that because the jobs numbers were so significant (including the revisions) and that real wages grew 5.7%, that they are likely going to be increasing the speed with which they raise rates and end quantitative easing throughout 2022. Also, wage growth is likely to slow in the next few years (outside of the restaurant/service industry) because a large amount of wage growth was among older workers who are likely to be retiring soon. It will still likely remain above average, but real wage growth may or may not rise depending on what the actual rates for inflation and wage growth end up being. That means that 2022 will likely see: - Fewer jobs/business expansions (reducing the labor shortage and lowering the advantage employees have over employers currently). - Faster falling inflation. - More expensive new mortgages and credit card debt. - Lower stock/commodity prices. - Better interest on Treasury Bills, bonds, CDs, and savings accounts. Edit: Time to see if Avanetti was able to keep those jurors who deadlocked earlier on his side. It will be amazing and damning at the same time, if he somehow did. https://twitter.com/Lauren_delvalle/status/1489687868461232132 Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 20:56
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Lib and let die posted:Please reconsider what you think privilege means. You'd probably say my dad was privileged because he's a white guy from the midwest, even though growing up he had to share a bed with his 5 brothers and didn't have indoor plumbing till he was a teenager. And if you're a white guy, how come you aren't getting over like your dad did? PeterCat fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 20:58
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The Federal Reserve says that because the jobs numbers were so significant (including the revisions) and that real wages grew 5.7%, that they are likely going to be increasing the speed with which they raise rates and end quantitative easing throughout 2022. Do we know that increasing rates will decrease inflation directly? It's extremely debatable whether current inflation is being caused by the ease of obtaining loans and increased money supply, as QE had basically no appreciable effect on inflation up until the supply chain crisis hit. I remember reading an article here that the poultry industry has increased it's prices despite having no increase in overhead at all.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:00
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PeterCat posted:You'd probably say my dad was privileged because he's a white guy from the midwest, even though growing up he had to share a bed with his 5 brothers and didn't have indoor plumbing till he was a teenager. He absolutely was. You don't understand the concept being talked about because it's been abstracted, and you're responding to a colloquial definition of privilege. It's similar to when people say evolution is "just a theory", you're talking past each other in terminology. Lets put it this way. Would your dad's life have been harder if he was black?
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Feb 4, 2022 21:01
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PeterCat posted:That's fine. Debates should be eliminated anyway. They're just a ratings grab by the networks, they're not equitable in anyway, and are just a way for candidates to get soundbites out there. Yeah I've never learned anything from a debate they just seem like spectacles. Although it's weird Republicans are the ones who want to eliminate them when the Democrats keep nominating the charisma-free candidates. Like you'd think the time to do this was when the Democrats had Obama, and not a smug dumbass like Hillary or a confused dumbass like Biden
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Feb 4, 2022 21:01
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Jaxyon posted:Do we know that increasing rates will decrease inflation directly? It's extremely debatable whether current inflation is being caused by the ease of obtaining loans and increased money supply, as QE had basically no appreciable effect on inflation up until the supply chain crisis hit. The vast majority of current inflation is due to supply side issues. But, you can still use monetary policy to hurt demand and lower inflation. They are estimating that roughly 0.8% to 1% of the 6.8% inflation rate is related to loose monetary policy. So, they could cover that portion, plus possibly even more if they really crush demand (they likely aren't going to go so hard that they artificially kill demand, but who knows!) Slower expansion and job creation will also slow down wage growth and inflation. They will definitely slow inflation with rising rates, but how much is not really clear and depends on how high/quickly they raise them and what the broader economic trends at the time look like. To get back to the Fed's dual-mandate goal of ~2% inflation, then they would need to reduce inflation overall by a little bit more than 4% total. Unless they really get aggressive and crush growth, then they will probably end up dropping the inflation rate 1-2% and inflation will continue to linger around 4-5% until the supply chain issues are fixed. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 21:05
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Jaxyon posted:He absolutely was. You don't understand the concept being talked about because it's been abstracted, and you're responding to a colloquial definition of privilege. It's similar to when people say evolution is "just a theory", you're talking past each other in terminology. My dad made his living because he joined the military when he was 18. I've known plenty of successful black people his age from the midwest who did the same thing. Let's put it this way, in Sioux City there's a large population of hispanics. They got their start being being brought in by IBP to break the meat packing union in 1980, but they've created a successful way of life there. If non-citizens who don't speak the language can make a successful life for themselves in the midwest, black people who were born there don't have an excuse since their status as citizens should put them ahead of the immigrants. I did read Kendi's "How to be an anti-racist," and he'd use the excuse that immigrants work harder than people native to a place though.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:07
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Speaking of wild rides, some slides from the new Reuters/Ipsos poll. New presidential low for Biden's approval ratings in this particular poll:  And it's mainly caused by Democratic voters' sentiments, although Biden's approvals are also dropping among independent voters (and slightly rising among Republican voters):  When presented with a menu of issues of concern to them, voters are still trusting their lying eyes over government-issued rosy economic news:  And if Democratic leaders are counting on ginning up votes for the midterms election by emphasizing 1/6 Never Forget  the poll has some bad news for them:
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Feb 4, 2022 21:09
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PeterCat posted:My dad made his living because he joined the military when he was 18. I've known plenty of successful black people his age from the midwest who did the same thing. Do you think systemic and institutional racism exist in any real way that affects working class people or is just "excuses"?
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Feb 4, 2022 21:09
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Jaxyon posted:I think that both "white fragility" and "white privilege" are to some extent abstractions from the 'real' topic in order to cater to the sensibilities of whites, in other words to avoid discussion of the elephant that is "it's racism". I'm having a hard time understanding what this has to do with what I was saying, so I fear we might be talking past each other at this point. If you'd like to continue this conversation, I'd ask you to put my last post in your own words so we can be sure we're on the same page. If it helps, my last post was only meant to rebut the specific phrase of yours that I mentioned, and not anything else you had to say about the idea of white fragility.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:12
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Looks like the one juror who really didn't think Avanetti should get convicted cracked:quote:Prosecutors alleged that Avenatti -- who helped negotiate the $800,000 advance for Daniels' October 2018 book "Full Disclosure" -- defrauded his former client by instructing her literary agent to send two of the installments of the advance totaling nearly $300,000 to an account controlled by him, rather than directly to Daniels, without her knowledge. https://twitter.com/cnnbrk/status/1489692068951777283
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Feb 4, 2022 21:14
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PeterCat posted:My dad made his living because he joined the military when he was 18. I've known plenty of successful black people his age from the midwest who did the same thing. How many black people were in the union at the time at the curiosity? How many were hired by the plant?
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Feb 4, 2022 21:17
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Koos Group posted:I'm having a hard time understanding what this has to do with what I was saying, so I fear we might be talking past each other at this point. If you'd like to continue this conversation, I'd ask you to put my last post in your own words so we can be sure we're on the same page. If it helps, my last post was only meant to rebut the specific phrase of yours that I mentioned, and not anything else you had to say about the idea of white fragility. I think I shouldn't have quoted you in that post because it's not a direct response to you, it's more about thoughts I had about the terms and wanted to write about. For your specific post: Koos Group posted:Indeed, when I said I suspect that's not how it's normally used, I meant that it would probably not be used to shut down a robust and well considered argument. I imagine most uses are in very emotional and fraught exchanges. However, your claim that it doesn't terminate any discussion I must take issue with, since that would include one where it was a response to a substantive argument, and it would be shifting discussion away from the argument to the qualities of the person making it. Though I suppose that wouldn't truly be "terminating" thought completely, just terminating a particular line of it in favor of another. I suppose in a hypothetical situation where someone gave a substantive argument and the reply was simply "Lol fragility" or whatever, that's certainly a lazy response and not meeting effort with effort, but not really "terminating" beyond the basic disrespect involved with a 1 word response to effort-based argument. But I don't see how it's terminating if it's an accurate summary. To use a very exaggerated example, if someone gave a long, substantive argument as CalmHitler about how we must secure the existence of the white race, a reply of "this is just racism" would be accurate, and not terminating. But it also touches on the qualities of the person making it, who is racist or at least pushing an argument based on racism.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:19
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Jaxyon posted:I think I shouldn't have quoted you in that post because it's not a direct response to you, it's more about thoughts I had about the terms and wanted to write about. Yes, "terminating" wouldn't be the most precise term, as I said. It would be more of a shift of topic, as thought would continue but not along the same lines. So we appear to be in agreement there. Anyway, do you know why there are several spaces between your sentences when quoting or editing your posts, but not in the thread itself?
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Feb 4, 2022 21:26
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Koos Group posted:Yes, "terminating" wouldn't be the most precise term, as I said. It would be more of a shift of topic, as thought would continue but not along the same lines. So we appear to be in agreement there. Anyway, do you know why there are several spaces between your sentences when quoting or editing your posts, but not in the thread itself? Vertically or horizontally? I still do the typing class "double space after a period" thing but I'm trying to break myself out of that.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:32
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Congressional staff are attempting to unionize. Pelosi and Schumer support. There is one twist that should not come as a surprise to anyone, though: It would require legislation and Republican Senators have said that they don't want their staff unionized. It is subject to a filibuster. https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1489652747410489352
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Feb 4, 2022 21:34
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Jaxyon posted:Vertically or horizontally? I still do the typing class "double space after a period" thing but I'm trying to break myself out of that. Horizontally. in this post there are three, and in the last post there were four and five. Doesn't really matter, I was just curious.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:38
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Congressional staff are attempting to unionize. Any idea what would require this to need legislation passed to go into effect versus anybody else who can just request a vote with sufficient support from the NLRB? I assume it's something arcane with budgeting or unique status of the people being organized but the article doesn't specify. It'd be wild how insane people would get if they took to heart the mantra of Big Bill and just stuck their hands in their pockets until they got what they wanted, probably 2nd only to any big chunk of the transport sector, but there's probably enough ideological vetting up to that point to make that unlikely
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Feb 4, 2022 21:39
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Epic High Five posted:Any idea what would require this to need legislation passed to go into effect versus anybody else who can just request a vote with sufficient support from the NLRB? I assume it's something arcane with budgeting or unique status of the people being organized but the article doesn't specify. Congressional staff wages and benefits are set by law. They would have to pass legislation allowing staff benefits and salaries to be determined via contract and find a way to appropriate money for that amount each year without requiring new authorizations. Otherwise, they could "approve" a union contract, but it could just never pass.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:44
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Congressional staff wages and benefits are set by law. Ah that makes sense then, thanks. That's a really tough spot to start from, godspeed to them
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Feb 4, 2022 21:45
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Epic High Five posted:Ah that makes sense then, thanks. That's a really tough spot to start from, godspeed to them They are doing this following the DNC staff unionizing. There has been some talk about an unofficial union if they can't get a bill passed, but the obvious problems with that would be that they couldn't actually get any net increase in compensation and if you work for a Republican member of congress (or a Democratic member who didn't want to participate), then you just don't get to be a part of it.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:49
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Amazon Prime's hiking the cost of its service to $139/year very soon, an increase of 17 percent.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:52
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Willa Rogers posted:Amazon Prime's hiking the cost of its service to $139/year very soon, an increase of 17 percent.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:53
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Congressional staff wages and benefits are set by law. One weird trick to stop your workers from unionizing: Make it illegal Unions hate it!
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Feb 4, 2022 21:54
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Looks like we just got our first official confirmation that Mike Pence doesn't plan to run for President in 2024. We're down to DeSantis, Cruz, Trump (maybe), Haley (maybe), Cotton, Hogan, and Noem (maybe) now. https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/1489701094385229826
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Feb 4, 2022 21:55
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I can't wait to see Pence shake hands with dems at the 2nd anniversary of 1/6.
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Feb 4, 2022 22:01
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Alabama officials receive complaints about Black History Month as state debates CRT legislationquote:As Alabama lawmakers look to take up multiple bills in the coming weeks that would ban divisive concepts associated with critical race theory, Alabama Superintendent Eric Mackey on Wednesday told members of the House Education Policy Committee people are confused about what CRT is. As expected, people are complaining about the very mention of race being CRT, because that's what they already knew the CRT argument was about. They never cared about what it actually means.
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Feb 4, 2022 22:03
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Man, I forgot about the Avenatti hero worship that went on for a minute back in the day till I saw this flashback.
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Feb 4, 2022 22:08
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People should have been more suspicious when Avenatti was flying around looking like Lex Luthor there
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Feb 4, 2022 22:26
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Willa Rogers posted:Man, I forgot about the Avenatti hero worship that went on for a minute back in the day till I saw this flashback. The Mueller hero worship was so much weirder, Mueller was already a public liar who helped deceive congress and the American people into an illegal war, at least Avenatti was an unknown lawyer who got famous for dunking on Trump on social media.
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Feb 4, 2022 22:30
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Willa Rogers posted:Man, I forgot about the Avenatti hero worship that went on for a minute back in the day till I saw this flashback. Nicole Wallace regularly floated him as a potential dark horse presidential candidate.
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Feb 4, 2022 22:34
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VitalSigns posted:The Mueller hero worship was so much weirder, Mueller was already a public liar who helped deceive congress and the American people into an illegal war, at least Avenatti was an unknown lawyer who got famous for dunking on Trump on social media. And then there was the Cuomo worship for being marginally less terrible than Trump in handling covid even though he still did a terrible job and did other bad things too. Starting to think that propping up individuals as heroes for taking a mild stand against the freakin orange cheeto might have been a mistake!
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