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We know Jara Hamee and Ket Halpak were born in captivity, and given that the Hork Bajir seem pretty short lived compared to humans, I get the feeling almost all Hork Bajir were.
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# ? Feb 4, 2022 17:08 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 22:24 |
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It's really fun to consider the contrast to them when the books started and it was slightly traumatic teen adventure and now, when they've been at this for like, either 3 entire weeks or probably several years,and are all very worn down, no longer think like children despite still at their core being children, it's been a slow and subtle thing and in a less monthly serialized thing with less ghost-authors and filler episodes we probably could have seen it track better and more clearly, but you can really see the differences between early Marco and now Marco, early Jake and now Jake. I wanted to be an Animorph when I was a kid but dang if they aren't basically ruined as people.
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# ? Feb 4, 2022 18:46 |
Have we got up to the "we were children no more" quote yet?
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# ? Feb 4, 2022 20:18 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Have we got up to the "we were children no more" quote yet? Not yet.
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# ? Feb 4, 2022 20:31 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Have we got up to the "we were children no more" quote yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlZSxjOTmpI
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# ? Feb 4, 2022 22:15 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:It's really fun to consider the contrast to them when the books started and it was slightly traumatic teen adventure and now, when they've been at this for like, either 3 entire weeks or probably several years,and are all very worn down, no longer think like children despite still at their core being children, it's been a slow and subtle thing and in a less monthly serialized thing with less ghost-authors and filler episodes we probably could have seen it track better and more clearly, but you can really see the differences between early Marco and now Marco, early Jake and now Jake. I kinda think the extra monster-of-the-week stuff, or padding or whatever, makes this work better. It happens so gradually I wouldn't actually be able to put my finger on the point where it feels like they've crossed some defining line. There are multiple points, sure - like trapping David or Ax ultimately siding with the Animorphs on Leera or leading Marco's mum into a trap - but those are all part of a slow and ongoing (ah-ha) transformation. Compare it to KA's later series Everworld, which always felt a bit truncated to me. Or the later seasons of Lost when they had to cram too much plot into too few episodes. Sometimes it's good to have room for a story to stretch its legs.
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# ? Feb 5, 2022 00:54 |
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Chapter 30quote:I lay there with my host unconscious. I could not see with her eyes or hear with her ears. I lay there, alone with only my own memory now. And that's how the Sharing was founded. Chapter 31 quote:It was so easy. Disturbingly easy. I had been in a human host for a long time, gone from the negligible Jenny Lines to the formidable Allison Kim. I had come to have some sympathy for humans, even as I plotted their destruction as a race. So, I had asked before but I ask again.....how would this had been different if Essam had been the one to infest Jenny?
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# ? Feb 5, 2022 03:57 |
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Epicurius posted:So, I had asked before but I ask again.....how would this had been different if Essam had been the one to infest Jenny? I don't really know him well enough to say. I don't think we get enough of him in these flashback glimpses. Actually, do yeerks even have genders?
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# ? Feb 5, 2022 10:10 |
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That's actually a really good minor twist, that her appraisal of weak hosts which seemed like a weakness at first was ultimately a strength. I also remember thinking as a kid that the dude who comes in there desperately looking for meaning is one of the saddest moments in the series. Just some poor lost soul who potentially dooms the human race and gets murdered on top of that. quote:We recorded the entire thing. Proof to the Empire that I had not only located a true Class-Five species, but that we could begin harvesting human hosts right away, without the loss of so much as a single Hork-Bajir. Their hands, however...
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# ? Feb 5, 2022 13:30 |
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Fuschia tude posted:Actually, do yeerks even have genders? I was wondering exactly this myself. It seems like we always refer to V1 as female just because of being in marco's mom and V3 as male because of Alloran and so on for simplicity's sake, but I legit don't remember if Yeerk genders are addressed as a thing. Part of me actually wants to say "no." If their reproduction process involves three Yeerks, it's kind of a lot harder to conceptualize a species having three genders instead of one/genderless, and it's far easier to extrapolate that they just kind of assume the gendered pronouns of their hosts for convenience. CidGregor fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Feb 5, 2022 |
# ? Feb 5, 2022 16:51 |
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They dying when you reproduce thing is weird too. If they don't have a parenting instinct, how do you convince them to do that? Is it when they reach the end of their natural lifespan anyway? It must be a hell of a strong instinct. I can't imagine Visser 3 or 1 doing that.
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# ? Feb 5, 2022 18:13 |
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As far as I know, Yeerks are genderless, Esplin does refer to being "born from the decaying bodies of my tripartite parents, along with several hundred brothers and sisters, aboard ship.", but I don't know to what extent that's saying something about Yeerks, and to what extent it's Applegate, in the late 1990s, having trouble writing nongendered language for Yeerk voices. Visser One is called "she" throughout the book, but of the six hosts Visser One has throughout the book, 3 are women, 2 are men, and 1 is the Hork-Bajir at the beginning whose gender or sex isn't identified, and the original choice of Jenny over Lowenstein wasn't because Jenny was female and Lowenstein was male, but because Visser One identified her as younger and healthier.
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# ? Feb 5, 2022 18:27 |
CidGregor posted:I was wondering exactly this myself. It seems like we always refer to V1 as female just because of being in marco's mom and V3 as male because of Alloran and so on for simplicity's sake, but I legit don't remember if Yeerk genders are addressed as a thing. Part of me actually wants to say "no." If their reproduction process involves three Yeerks, it's kind of a lot harder to conceptualize a species having three genders instead of one/genderless, and it's far easier to extrapolate that they just kind of assume the gendered pronouns of their hosts for convenience. Yeah, who could even imagine a world without a gender binary
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# ? Feb 5, 2022 18:34 |
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I assume that Yeerks, much like the Stargate version of Yeerks just kinda vibe with being a boy or a girl after a while in a few different hosts.
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# ? Feb 5, 2022 19:20 |
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OctaviusBeaver posted:They dying when you reproduce thing is weird too. If they don't have a parenting instinct, how do you convince them to do that? Is it when they reach the end of their natural lifespan anyway? It must be a hell of a strong instinct. I can't imagine Visser 3 or 1 doing that. I assume it’s a death drive type of thing when a Yeerk is nearing the end of its natural lifespan.
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# ? Feb 5, 2022 20:26 |
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Pwnstar posted:I assume that Yeerks, much like the Stargate version of Yeerks just kinda vibe with being a boy or a girl after a while in a few different hosts. Yeah, Yeerks appear to acquire a gender over time based on host history and even then it seems quite fluid. I'm betting if the book was written today, Edriss would probably either be liberally flipping pronouns on a per-host basis, or sticking to a non-gendered means of referring to her/themself as much as possible.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 02:59 |
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, Yeerks appear to acquire a gender over time based on host history and even then it seems quite fluid. I'm betting if the book was written today, Edriss would probably either be liberally flipping pronouns on a per-host basis, or sticking to a non-gendered means of referring to her/themself as much as possible. Edriss strongly identifies with being a mother and with living as Allison Kim so I'd think there's a strong argument they would identify as female... ish. I'd have to imagine that living with the same host for a long period of time without new ones would also have a... solidifying effect on a yeerk's sense of self. So Edriss in Eva, and likewise V3 has been with Alloran for decades now. He'd probably deny any sort of identifying in the manner of a lowly host, buuuut
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 03:37 |
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Chapter 32quote:I sat. Visser Three stood. The Hork-Bajir guard had been doubled. Outside the chamber the Hork-Bajir were multiplying, rushing to obey Garoff’s direct orders. Orders that might result in Visser Three’s arrest. But would more likely result in his immediate execution. So Visser One's story of how she came to earth and what she did there is done, and now we just wait for the verdict. What do you think of it? Chapter 33 quote:We were kept waiting a while, Visser Three and I. A long while, despite Garoff’s earlier claim that judgment had already been rendered. So we leave Visser One now, spared and dreaming of success and reuniting with her daughter, who will love her one way or another, and we leave the new Council of Eleven, who need to find two new members, because jury duty isn't always easy, especially when the jury is made up of creatures covered with blades and cannibals. Tomorrow, we go back to our protagonists in the....unusual book, "The Mutation". ghostwritten by someone new....Erica Babone. So, Visser is sort of a favorite of mine, and from what I could tell from some of the comments, I'm not the only one. What did you think of it? What did you like and what did you dislike? This is the closest thing to the Yeerk Chronicles we get, so do you feel like you understand them any better? What's everyone's thoughts?
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 03:53 |
The stinger is why I find Visser One so frightening. The book spends all this time building up sympathy for her, showing how she 'turned human' and all, and then at the end she knowingly and willingly turns away from it. She is an absolute monster.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 05:15 |
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I think it's definitely one of the best books in the series. Re-reading it as an adult, you can see KA eliding over a few points I would have found interesting, like how she infested Eva specifically or how she worked with the next Yeerks to arrive when she technically still would have been a sub visser and fugitive. But on the whole she does a really good job of writing the backstory when she would've had to reverse engineer it after probably writing the early books without giving any of that much thought. I also think the trial frame story works great, especially when it involves the Animorphs and thus gives it a closer link to the main series, and the way it slowly pulls Visser Three into trouble as well.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 05:59 |
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I absolutely love how the book builds up the empathy and then we're hit with the double whammy of what Visser One did at the end of her initial time on Earth and what she still wants to do in her future. God drat, she's so much more evil than the most bloodthirsty warmonger ever could be.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 06:19 |
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I really really love V1 saying she picked Marco's mom because she did want to feel motherhood again and it just didn't work, and she's just, ultimately is a genuine bad person who is manipulative abd sociopathic but without being really a cartoon like, say, V3. Definitely one of the better ones in the series I think yes.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 06:53 |
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This book really does put the shotgun to the notion of Visser One being the "better choice" in the tug of war between her and Visser Three for command of the Yeerk military. For a series that's often pragmatic about accepting the lesser evil, this is probably one of the few times it pumps the brakes, looks you right in the face and goes "There is no 'lesser evil', there's just evil." Both prongs of the fork are uniquely awful with no redeeming qualities and the fact that both of them walk away from this book mostly scot-free because we're still in the Status Quo Zone for the series is utterly gut wrenching. E: Also, what's this do to everyone's Visser Two theories that the Council is like "Yeah, Esplin, we're just gonna let you, uh... keep Earth for now, because we literally have no one qualified to replace you with. Same with you, Edriss. You get to keep being Visser One, same reason." nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Feb 6, 2022 |
# ? Feb 6, 2022 07:19 |
The Ellimist choosing to leave Alloran in Visser Three's grasp is pretty telling. That leads directly to him leading the invasion of Earth, because if Visser One had been left in charge, it would have been over before it began.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 07:46 |
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nine-gear crow posted:E: Also, what's this do to everyone's Visser Two theories that the Council is like "Yeah, Esplin, we're just gonna let you, uh... keep Earth for now, because we literally have no one qualified to replace you with. Same with you, Edriss. You get to keep being Visser One, same reason." I think this meant more that they don't have any high-ranking Yeerks who are familiar with Earth, having lived and worked there for years. (Though you'd think there must be at least a few lower vissers and sub-vissers on Earth given that it's increasingly important.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but have we never learned precisely why Visser One handed Earth's reigns over to Visser Three (or was ordered to do so) in the first place?
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 08:27 |
Based on the hatred between them, I'd say Visser Three made a power play. Visser One was forced out, leading to her loving him over in book 5.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 08:40 |
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FlocksOfMice posted:I really really love V1 saying she picked Marco's mom because she did want to feel motherhood again and it just didn't work, and she's just, ultimately is a genuine bad person who is manipulative abd sociopathic but without being really a cartoon like, say, V3. Definitely one of the better ones in the series I think yes. There is something so chilling about Visser One genuinely feeling love for her children and not giving a poo poo if it's a subordinate of hers in their head ordered to love her back. She has become human in so many ways but hasn't learned anything. nine-gear crow posted:E: Also, what's this do to everyone's Visser Two theories that the Council is like "Yeah, Esplin, we're just gonna let you, uh... keep Earth for now, because we literally have no one qualified to replace you with. Same with you, Edriss. You get to keep being Visser One, same reason." Visser Two is clearly just some failson pretending to manage the commissary on the Blade Ship. "We'd love to get rid of him, but his dad used to be on the Council of Thirteen. Which according to our biology, means that he used to be on the Council of Thirteen."
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 10:50 |
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V2 is at best going to be angrily posting on a blog about how her daughter and the yeerk assigned to infest have both estranged themselves from her.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 12:09 |
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Someone upthread mentioned that Yeerk society had very Screwtape-and-Wormwood vibes. This idea of a massively destructive love of Inner and Outer groups feels very Lewis too.Rochallor posted:There is something so chilling about Visser One genuinely feeling love for her children and not giving a poo poo if it's a subordinate of hers in their head ordered to love her back. She has become human in so many ways but hasn't learned anything. Ugh. Yeah. Like Eva, we readers are thrilled to discover something relatable in V1; but... nope... monster. She's another Saruman, I guess; seeing everything and understanding nothing.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 13:20 |
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Rochallor posted:There is something so chilling about Visser One genuinely feeling love for her children and not giving a poo poo if it's a subordinate of hers in their head ordered to love her back. She has become human in so many ways but hasn't learned anything. Absolutely this. I'm not being flippant when I say a lot of the subjects of discussion in the rejected parents thread would love to have the option of parasite-enforced affection from their children.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 17:02 |
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Epicurius posted:Tomorrow, we go back to our protagonists in the....unusual book, "The Mutation". ghostwritten by someone new....Erica Babone. I have never read these two back to back, and going from this book to that one is going to be some tremendous whiplash.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 18:06 |
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Visser One turning out to be truly monstrous is the only ending we could have here, but agreed that it still feels brutal. Eva's betrayed reaction is a real gut punch. I wonder what the two "splitter" members of the Council were saying that required summary execution. Skellybones posted:V2 is at best going to be angrily posting on a blog about how her daughter and the yeerk assigned to infest have both estranged themselves from her. A Yeerk and host bonding over what a jackass their supervisors in the invasion and their mundane human workplace is an amazing sitcom premise.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 19:21 |
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Visser One is very familiar to me and reminds me of some relatives of mine. She's a good villain because she's so banal at her base but then has these delusions of grandeur that she could actually fulfill.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 19:23 |
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HIJK posted:Visser One is very familiar to me and reminds me of some relatives of mine. She's a good villain because she's so banal at her base but then has these delusions of grandeur that she could actually fulfill. That's a great point. V3 is your terrible retail boss given super powers; V1 is your terrible aunt given an army.
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# ? Feb 6, 2022 22:10 |
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I forgot how chilling the ending to this book was even remembering how most of it went. visser one… bad
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# ? Feb 7, 2022 03:49 |
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The Mutation Ghostwritten by Erica Babone. Erica Babone is better known under her married name of Erica Ferencik, She's a comic and novelist, who's written four books, most recently Girl in Ice, and has written for Salon, the Boston Globe, and NPR. Her book "The River at Night", about four friends stuck in the Maine wilderness, has been optioned for a movie, and has signed on Eli Roth as director and Kevin Williamson as screenwriter. Chapter 1 quote:A phone call at three A.M. is rarely a good thing. So this is the standard first chapter explaining the metaplot, which everybody should know by now. Chapter 2 quote:“This is a terrible thing he has done.” Toby Hamee’s voice was grave. "Ok, Visser Three. Remember, the Council has sentenced you to death unless you do a good job....no unnecessary risks. Your goal is to step up control of Earth and humans, but do it secretly. Do you understand?" <I understand> "Great. Don't worry. The war isn't lost yet. We can still pull this off. You just have to redouble your efforts and not give into distraction. Remember, the only goal is to secretly take control of humanity. Nothing flashy. No big wastes of money like the death laser or the anti-morphing beam. Just infiltration. <Yes, Yes, I said I understood!> "Ok, good. So what's the plan. What are we doing next?" <I plan to design an experimental submarine and then crew it with Hork-Bajir that I've grafted gills on and use them to find an ancient alien submarine whose immortal superpowered AI was rude to me.> "Ok......"
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# ? Feb 7, 2022 04:00 |
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Epicurius posted:"Ok, Visser Three. Remember, the Council has sentenced you to death unless you do a good job....no unnecessary risks. Your goal is to step up control of Earth and humans, but do it secretly. Do you understand?" "Yeah, hi, Edriss, it's Garoff. How's the Anati planet treating you? Yes, I was kind of an rear end in a top hat at the trial, I know. ...So anyway, I might have made a fucky wucky. How soon can you Z-Space to Earth?"
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# ? Feb 7, 2022 05:36 |
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Lol this book is easily the most balls-to-the-wall insane stupid plot in the entire series (yes, more than the dinosaurs or George Washington) and I love it for that
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# ? Feb 7, 2022 08:06 |
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Wow that Visser book was good. But god, what a monster that slug is. Felt sorry for her host who escaped and came back for the kids. So does Marco’s mum get fixed up or do they like replace her damaged limb with a robot arm like the crazy torturer from Tobias’ book?
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# ? Feb 7, 2022 10:10 |
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# ? May 24, 2024 22:24 |
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It's probably just glossed over because it isn't important but it is pretty funny to me that the Yeerks have money.
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# ? Feb 8, 2022 02:31 |