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Feb 4, 2022 16:00
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| # ? May 29, 2024 08:37 |
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How do these typeless -enchantment shrine creatures work? Are there are other examples of typeless creatures?
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Feb 4, 2022 16:06
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Rythe posted:Besides trying to abuse stuff like Paradox Haze what's the win cons on something like shrines? A variation on enchantment matters decks I would assume. Basically enchantment matters. You could deal some damage from them or turn them into creatures and recur them repeatedly, use bastion/ grim guardian/ meathook massacre and other aristocrat effects or just turn them into creatures with opalescence or use parallax to create infinite etbs. I’ve been planning to make a shrine deck when kamigawa:cyberpunk 2022 came out so I’ll post the article link when I finish it,
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Feb 4, 2022 16:08
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th3t00t posted:How do these typeless -enchantment shrine creatures work? Just Nameless Race from The Dark. Doesn't really have much impact, they just can't be hit with Plague Wind and the like. Edit: sorry not plague wind, I meant Extinction
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Feb 4, 2022 16:15
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Still seems to me that wotc intended for shrine to be the creature type without thinking it through and didn't realize the consequences in time to fix it. So now they are doing this lazy errata through Maro's twitter. Would shrine being the creature type even break shrines? I kinda doubt it
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Feb 4, 2022 16:27
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th3t00t posted:Still seems to me that wotc intended for shrine to be the creature type without thinking it through and didn't realize the consequences in time to fix it. It would let you run changelings to get your shrine numbers up.
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Feb 4, 2022 16:28
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They need to just errata all of the shrine creatures to Enchantment Creature - Shrine Spirit, it'd solve the problem. Everyone was similarly confused when Gingerbrute was revealed and Maro had to clarify that Food isn't it's creature type, Golem is.
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Feb 4, 2022 16:52
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They definitely didn't forget how creature types work. Having a typeless creature doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of the game. The creature type of your random value creature in most decks doesn't even matter unless the deck is built around them anyway. Gilded Drake or Deathrite Shaman could very well be a Plant Fish and 99.9% of games where it comes up would play out the same.
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Feb 4, 2022 18:38
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Silhouette posted:They need to just errata all of the shrine creatures to Enchantment Creature - Shrine Spirit, it'd solve the problem. Everyone was similarly confused when Gingerbrute was revealed and Maro had to clarify that Food isn't it's creature type, Golem is.  Creature type - NOT SHRINE th3t00t fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 18:51
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The neatest interaction with the typeless shrine creatures are they are guaranteed to trigger Volo which is pretty sad.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:39
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I literally do not understand this typing confusion. We already went through this with "is Vehicle a creature type?" and the answer is No.
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Feb 4, 2022 20:54
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Magnetic North posted:I literally do not understand this typing confusion. We already went through this with "is Vehicle a creature type?" and the answer is No. Because there's nothing in the type line of vehicles that say it's a creature, obviously. Meanwhile here it's not made remotely clear and I'm far from the only one who finds it obtuse. Almost every creature card in existence very clearly says what type it is after the dash. You don't think the way it's written can be seen as confusing when anyone with pattern recognition would see that and think "that must be the creature type" when there's no explanation or helper text or clearly pointed out errata that says otherwise?
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Feb 4, 2022 20:58
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Magnetic North posted:I literally do not understand this typing confusion. #contentcreators
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Feb 4, 2022 20:58
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Framboise posted:You don't think the way it's written can be seen as confusing when anyone with pattern recognition would see that and think "that must be the creature type" when there's no explanation or helper text or clearly pointed out errata that says otherwise? That's just where subtypes go, and subtypes are more than creature types?  I dunno, it's not like back in the day where Creature Types were kinda special and particular, where Mistform Ultimus could attack as though it were not a Wall. Now, every type already has pervasive and relevant subtypes that matter. Aura, Equipment, Gate, even Arcane and Ellywick.At least after all this, everyone will know.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:13
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New IHYD Episode dropped Lynch, Rachel Weeks, Olivia Gobert-Hicks, and Brian Kibler for this episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FftAGmz25_c loving Lynch running Toxrill 
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Feb 4, 2022 21:17
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I really wasn't expecting "shrine isn't a creature type" to be a discussion for more than 5 seconds tops, but I guess some people feel strongly about it. Shrine isn't a creature type just like arcane isn't and food isn't and forest isn't.
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Feb 4, 2022 22:35
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i dont know about this shrine nonsense, but if it has attack and toughness then I assume i'm able to slap someone with it, unless the card specifically says i can't do that.
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Feb 4, 2022 22:49
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Jiro posted:New IHYD Episode dropped drat, that's what Kibler looks like now? It's good.
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Feb 4, 2022 23:06
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Dizz posted:i dont know about this shrine nonsense, but if it has attack and toughness then I assume i'm able to slap someone with it, unless the card specifically says i can't do that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXe6fSE6KfU Command Zone ep going over all the multi colored potential commanders Apparently Go-Shintai is only available in set boosters.
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Feb 4, 2022 23:51
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I really want to build around Isshin. Mardu attack trigger shenanigans seems fun as hell
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Feb 4, 2022 23:57
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The problem is less that shrine isn't a creature type. It's that they lack a creature type at all so you can't even go "yes it's a clue myr. Clue is an artefact subtype, myr is a creature type." So it's a creature but it's not any specific kind of creature, I'm honestly just amazed they aren't Spirits. Jiro posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXe6fSE6KfU Same with the curse commander from the last set.
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Feb 5, 2022 00:32
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long-rear end nips Diane posted:drat, that's what Kibler looks like now? It's good. Going through mats at SCG and seeing that they're still selling the mat he had made for his wedding got a bit of an oof out of me.
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Feb 5, 2022 00:40
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The Comprehensive Rules are good for a skim to gain better insight into weird rules you like but haven't played with enough to understand why rulings work the way they do. They explain the various subtypes of various card types, and for at least a year, probably more, have used Shrine as the example for what an enchantment's type line shows a subtype as. Scryfall searches for "t:shrine" can also reveal the kinds of contexts you see Shrines in.
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Feb 5, 2022 07:40
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magic having more words in rules than possibly the bible will never not be funny to me.they had the ability to simplify things and decided "no actually we want every single card to interact differently in every single interaction"
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Feb 5, 2022 07:58
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When it comes to subtypes, there's actually a complete list of them in the rules, associated with what kinds of types they can be applied to. The only way of knowing that Gingerbrute's creature type is Golem and artifact type is Food, and not vice versa, is from the exhaustive lists, not from anything special about Shrine or Clue or Food.
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Feb 5, 2022 08:01
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Dizz posted:magic having more words in rules than possibly the bible will never not be funny to me.they had the ability to simplify things and decided "no actually we want every single card to interact differently in every single interaction" lol at "why did they make perfectly rigorous interactions between 23000 game pieces so complicated".
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Feb 6, 2022 06:50
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i can only remember like 2 rules, everything else is just flavor text.
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Feb 6, 2022 12:06
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Dizz posted:i can only remember like 2 rules, everything else is just flavor text. Mountainwalk means it resists Trample, right?
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Feb 6, 2022 12:17
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Magnetic North posted:Mountainwalk means it resists Trample, right? attacking your opponent means your creatures need to WALK to them to fight.
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Feb 6, 2022 13:20
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One of my favorite things to do in Magic in 2022 CE is describe in excruciating detail the rules for Banding to players who weren't playing or born in the 1990's. It's not so much its complexity that's stupid. It's the uselessness-to-complexity ratio that hurts the brain. But a fun game is to make up fake rules for it that are more believable than the actual rules.
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Feb 6, 2022 15:53
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Banded creatures must attack together and block together. It's not that complicated. Basically the way it is now blocking creatures can just band at will, it just doesn't have a name besides "I will block attacker X with blockers Y and Z"
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Feb 6, 2022 16:42
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Heath posted:Banded creatures must attack together and block together. It's not that complicated. Basically the way it is now blocking creatures can just band at will, it just doesn't have a name besides "I will block attacker X with blockers Y and Z" Right. It affects how blockers can assign damage. Like I said, it isn't that complicated, but the actual rules for it are written in a mind-crushingly dumb way and so many words were dedicated to such little effect on the game.
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Feb 6, 2022 16:48
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I think with banding, the point that's hardest to get across if why you would bother: "So, if I band a flying creature with a non-flying creature, they can only be blocked by fliers?" "No, unfortunately not." "Oh, so, do I get to, like, combine trample damage or something?" "Nope again. Basically, all you get to do is assign damage, rather that your opponent assigning damage." "Oh, so, like, I could band a bunch of 2/2s and and if my opponent blocks with a 3/3, I can give my creatures one damage each so they survive?" "That's right." "But the whole band can still be blocked by just one creature?" "Correct." "So, if my opponent has a single large creature that I want to kill, I can attack with a banded group, and they have to chose between losing their big guy or taking all the damage themselves, while if they block, I can spread their damage out and have my guys survive, rather than a non-banded attack, when regularly the opponent could only block one of them while the rest get through?" "Exactly." "How often does that come up?" "Basically never, but, you know, it could happen. Now, let's talk about Rampage, which provided a disincentive for blocking with more than one creature..." Toph Bei Fong fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Feb 6, 2022 |
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Feb 6, 2022 16:55
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If you haven't experienced banding in limited, it's surprisingly strong.
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Feb 6, 2022 16:58
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Yeah, to be fair in the bad old days, creatures were much harder to budge off the table outside of combat, and generated much less immediate value. There was much less evasion, haste didn't exist yet, and creatures were much more conservatively costed. Combat math mattered a lot. Banding was never good, but it was a stalemate breaker when you can trade your 1/1 in a band for a 4/4.
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Feb 6, 2022 17:05
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You could also do things like band a benalish hero with a white knight and then assign the black combat damage all to the white knight. Or all to a creature with regeneration, it was a lot stronger then, virtually every creature printed before revised is unplayably bad by todays standards except like mana dorks and a few weird things like hypnotic specter.
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Feb 6, 2022 18:23
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Infinite Karma posted:Yeah, to be fair in the bad old days, creatures were much harder to budge off the table outside of combat you know, back when every deck had some combination of lightning bolt, terror, unsummon, dark banishing, fireball, wrath of god, nevinyrral's disk, berserk, psionic blast, disintegrate, earthquake. . . Creatures have gotten better and removal has gotten worse. As useless as banding seems now, it was even worse back then. "Oh boy, I can attack with my 2/2 and two 1/1 banders through their. . . *reads card*. . . durkwood boars??" just play giant growth or lightning bolt or terror or whatever
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Feb 6, 2022 21:56
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A lot of people seem to think Dockside is eating poo poo tomorrow 
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Feb 6, 2022 22:06
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I really, really doubt that but it would be cool. I think we’d see an Oracle ban before a Dockside ban though
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Feb 6, 2022 22:14
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hit both imo
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Feb 6, 2022 22:24
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