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ZenMasterBullshit posted:She got a whole gently caress expac and patch cycles! It's fine for a character to fall out of the spot light! She shows up as much as all the other city state leaders now, IE Consistently. I would have liked for her to get more screentime before Stormblood, too.  Let's make a comparison between her and similar characters, then. Prior to Shadowbringers, G'raha Tia exclusively existed as part of the Crystal Tower raid series. After Shadowbringers, he stuck around as a Scion of the Seventh Dawn. Likewise, Estinian was a character from the Dragoon job quests who got promoted to main character in Heavensward, then showed up from time to time in Stormblood and Shadowbringers before becoming a core member of the team in Endwalker. Both of those characters had their big expac, and then they stuck around. Lyse didn't get that, and I wish she did. Does that help?
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Feb 7, 2022 05:16
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King of Solomon posted:
Wanting to see more of her I get, but your argument is that they wrote her out of the story and that's part of why you liked Yda more, but she's around more than now then she ever was as Yda, so why would you prefer the version where she's around less?
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Feb 7, 2022 05:18
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Wanting to see more of her I get, but your argument is that they wrote her out of the story and that's part of why you liked Yda more, but she's around more than now then she ever was as Yda, so why would you prefer the version where she's around less? I would have liked for her to get more screentime as Yda too, but them making her a world leader (that gets less screentime than the other non-Stormblood world leaders) still sucks.
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Feb 7, 2022 05:21
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tbf Estinien probably had about as much screentime in Sb as Lyse did in EW. Though that's probably unrelated to why she doesn't have as much of a role as Estinien and G'raha (the other big expansion focus characters) which is that she and SB itself weren't as well received. Even though obviously the fans are wrong for their opinions because Stormblood was real good.
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Feb 7, 2022 05:26
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i think the problem with Lyse is that she works a lot better as a kind of dumb genki punchgirl who has a smart buddy to play off. Without that dynamic her personality feels kind of hard to pin down.
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Feb 7, 2022 05:33
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Once Lyse has her big outfit change I came around.
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Feb 7, 2022 06:06
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King of Solomon posted:I would have liked for her to get more screentime before Stormblood, too.
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Feb 7, 2022 06:19
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saw curtain call today. I can taste the clear next week
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Feb 7, 2022 06:23
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Endorph posted:I mean Estinien and Graha were free to go. It'd be weird if like, Aymeric joined the scions. I guess you can argue Graha was a world leader but also the idea of the end of SHB was that the people of the first could finally rebuild the world and stuff, itd be weird for Graha to hang around as the man in charge with that theme. Lyse has bigger responsibilities than punching dragons with us. ig you could have raubahn be the ala mhigan leader but idk. i just dont think lyse really has much to offer, in general. shes fine but i dont think anythingd be improved by her hanging around in ShB/EW, especially given that you'd have to take away screentime from other scions or characters to give her some in this hypothetical world. tbf Raubahn is kinda the Ala Mhigan leader.
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Feb 7, 2022 06:27
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SyntheticPolygon posted:tbf Raubahn is kinda the Ala Mhigan leader. If he wasn't actually loyal to Uldah you'd be right
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Feb 7, 2022 06:44
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Cephas posted:i think the problem with Lyse is that she works a lot better as a kind of dumb genki punchgirl who has a smart buddy to play off. Without that dynamic her personality feels kind of hard to pin down. Lyse is deeply unconvincing as the leader of Ala Migho and I blame that largely on Stormblood being disjointed and poorly paced. They could've developed her convincingly; they've demonstrated that they can do that. They did it with Alisaie in that xpack. But Lyse just kinda floats around until you get to the end and they make her the boss.
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Feb 7, 2022 07:09
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cheetah7071 posted:saw curtain call today. I can taste the clear next week yea once you see curtain call it's just a matter of 1-2 extra pulls to get a feel for the timing before the clear, at least in my experience. good luck! 
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Feb 7, 2022 07:15
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Kaubocks posted:yea once you see curtain call it's just a matter of 1-2 extra pulls to get a feel for the timing before the clear, at least in my experience. good luck! that pull was also our first finale (scuffed but saved it with healer lb3) so we essentially still have two mechs to learn (and we aren't perfect on act 3 or act 4 either). But I think we've definitely got it, especially if we take a bonus day.
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Feb 7, 2022 07:17
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Endorph posted:I mean Estinien and Graha were free to go. It'd be weird if like, Aymeric joined the scions. I guess you can argue Graha was a world leader but also the idea of the end of SHB was that the people of the first could finally rebuild the world and stuff, itd be weird for Graha to hang around as the man in charge with that theme. Lyse has bigger responsibilities than punching dragons with us. ig you could have raubahn be the ala mhigan leader but idk. i just dont think lyse really has much to offer, in general. shes fine but i dont think anythingd be improved by her hanging around in ShB/EW, especially given that you'd have to take away screentime from other scions or characters to give her some in this hypothetical world. Yeah, of course, if you wanted Lyse to stick around as a Scion then someone else would have had to take up the mantle as the leader of Ala Mhigo, and I do think Raubahn makes sense for that, even given his history in Ul'Dah. I don't really agree with the idea that she wouldn't have much to contribute, though. ShB did a lot for pretty much every character that was given time to shine, and that would naturally extend to Lyse if she stuck around.
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Feb 7, 2022 07:26
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admanb posted:They did it with Alisaie in that xpack. did they? not trying to be snide or witty, i just wasn't really dialed in during stormblood msq. my vague memories are that alisaie is pretty much just Around for a lot of the expansion and the ruby sea being so early kinda highlights both how similar she and lyse are in terms of their general outline (young, partial to direct solutions to problems, much less bookish than most of the scions, occasionally impulsive, lot of the character arc as written is about developing a reflexive but intuitively correct sense of what is right and good into a principled worldview, sometimes engages in slapstick comedy like punting the namazu), with the slight twist that despite their respective ages and level of experience alisaie is generally the one prodding lyse to be less impulsive. probably i'm forgetting something big and obvious but i don't remember alisaie really coming into sharper relief as a character until 4.X and ShB. i recall it being fairly noticeable that she didn't really undergo her own narrative journey in contrast to alphinaud in HW, both because it underscored how weak the character arcs actually given time in stormblood were and because she actually is set up for what would ultimately be her own personal subplot/conflict in the HW patches with Ga Bu and tempering, it just doesn't get paid off until the ShB patches. Valentin fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 07:31
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Genuinely isn't Raubahn the leader of Ala Mhigo? I'm getting confused now.
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Feb 7, 2022 07:33
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The last time I remember it actually focusing on the "forming a government" stuff was that patch quest where it ended with them all sitting on the floor?
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Feb 7, 2022 07:38
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There is no singular leader, Raubahn is in charge of military matters and Lyse is the representative to the Eorzean Alliance, as well as a friendly face for the masses. They seem to have been trying for a representative council style leadership, each relevant group in Ala Mihgo given equal say with a representative system. Hence inviting both tribes of the snake people.
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Feb 7, 2022 07:44
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The one weird thing I think Endwalker did character wise, especially when the whole thing feels like "Everyone's here!!!", was 100% ignore every character from Doma, to the point where Hien isn't even voiced I know Stormblood is already incredibly crowded and they needed to involve a certain someone but that did feel odd
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Feb 7, 2022 08:25
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role quests are never voiced so that part isn't unusual, at least
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Feb 7, 2022 08:29
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:The one weird thing I think Endwalker did character wise, especially when the whole thing feels like "Everyone's here!!!", was 100% ignore every character from Doma, to the point where Hien isn't even voiced They've got stuff going on in the ranged DPS rolequest. Besides, they sent the Steppe folk as their reps.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:30
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bewilderment posted:They've got stuff going on in the ranged DPS rolequest. Besides, they sent the Steppe folk as their reps. The correct choice.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:35
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Alisaie's path in Stormblood is more establishment of her traits as part of a longer arc. She contrasts Lyse by being the pragmatic, acerbic cynic of the band (particularly while Thancred and Y'shtola are elsewhere) whereas Lyse is more of a brash optimist out of her depth, wearing her heart on her sleeve. The former is largely trying to prove her growth compared to WoL and Alphinaud, with her caring nature and worries about measuring up slipping out over time.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:56
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:The one weird thing I think Endwalker did character wise, especially when the whole thing feels like "Everyone's here!!!", was 100% ignore every character from Doma, to the point where Hien isn't even voiced That's really not true. Soroban and Hancock both have a whole thing during that scene. Also not technically from Doma, but the Ivalice losers also show up there.
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Feb 7, 2022 10:31
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Genuinely isn't Raubahn the leader of Ala Mhigo? I'm getting confused now. Lord_Magmar posted:There is no singular leader, Raubahn is in charge of military matters and Lyse is the representative to the Eorzean Alliance, as well as a friendly face for the masses. Lord_Magmar is mostly correct. Raubahn is the military leader, Lyse represents the people that used to be the resistance (at least those that didn't return to their respective communities) and each of the other groups are represented by their own leaders. There is no singular person that serves as the head of the council and all of Ala Mhigo in a government role, but the WoL really only interacts with Lyse and Raubahn so it's easy to assume that either of them lead the nation.
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Feb 7, 2022 11:09
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Macaluso posted:That's really not true. Soroban and Hancock both have a whole thing during that scene. Also not technically from Doma, but the Ivalice losers also show up there. Fair, I guess I remembered a very different group of people from that storyline
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Feb 7, 2022 11:49
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Part of Lyse's thing in Stormblood is that she spends much of the Doma Liberation watching and learning from Hien, so you're meant to assume her lessons in leadership that let her be effective in Ala Migho come from that. This kind of depends on how well you accept that setup, and how good a leader you think Hien actually is during that sequence though.
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Feb 7, 2022 12:22
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King of Solomon posted:I don't really agree with the idea that she wouldn't have much to contribute, though. ShB did a lot for pretty much every character that was given time to shine, and that would naturally extend to Lyse if she stuck around.
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Feb 7, 2022 13:01
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None of the leaders of any nation take a primary role in EW outside of the the two new main cities in the MSQ. You see them all in sidequests, but none are prominent in the main story. Kan-E, Nanamo, Merlwyb, Lyse, Hein, and Aymeric are all used about the same in the expac, and that is they're not main elements because none of their regions are main story locations. Instead you see them in side and role quests where they're relevant.
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Feb 7, 2022 13:51
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Started leveling black mage… I’m excited for the experience of seeing the job change every ten levels or whatever lol
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Feb 7, 2022 14:23
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Started leveling black mage… I’m excited for the experience of seeing the job change every ten levels or whatever lol black mage can be miserable at some levels but loving owns once you get above 70.
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Feb 7, 2022 14:41
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Mr. Nice! posted:black mage can be miserable at some levels but loving owns once you get above 70. I recently did a dungeon during the Thaumaturge levels as BLM, and I gotta say, that was painful. I'm not even a high level black mage, it just sucks to have AOEs that suck that much. Endorph posted:again though, what in shb would you cut for her? like hypothetically if she was there you'd have to siphon screentime away from someone else to give her any, dev time and screentime are both limited. Honestly, I dunno. My first thought is, as much as I love the boy, you could probably find some Alphinaud content to reassign.
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Feb 7, 2022 14:48
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I do feel the pain of Fire and Blizzard II. I feel like oftentimes by the time I finish casing them, my targets dead so the cast doesn’t even go off
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Feb 7, 2022 14:53
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Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:I do feel the pain of Fire and Blizzard II. I feel like oftentimes by the time I finish casing them, my targets dead so the cast doesn’t even go off That was my experience. I'm pretty sure the only enemies I actually hurt in that dungeon were bosses.
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Feb 7, 2022 14:55
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It hurts that much more when you're paired with a dancer or something that is just loving broken at lower levels.
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Feb 7, 2022 15:40
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Lord_Magmar posted:Part of Lyse's thing in Stormblood is that she spends much of the Doma Liberation watching and learning from Hien, so you're meant to assume her lessons in leadership that let her be effective in Ala Migho come from that. You can probably learn even more about what not to do from Hien's leadership. She's learning eaither way! Also Yda and Papa's dynamic loving sucked
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Feb 7, 2022 16:16
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Well, since I finally managed to finish the 180 item relic step I decided to finally go for Dalriada to finish the drat storyline! It was a 8 man. With no healer. And we timed out at the final boss because I was the only one who brought Phoenix Downs and I ran out and we had 3 dead on the last boss so we timed out  ffs they really need to buff everything in Bozja so people can actually do the storyline, because the only thing worse than that experience was reading all the loving "LFG Z3" messages while doing so.
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Feb 7, 2022 16:31
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hazardousmouse posted:Also Yda and Papa's dynamic loving sucked Hard disagree. Love the Laurel and Hardy schtick. Also their relationship had the really nice send off in a dungeon in EW. Too bad Lyse couldn't be there
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Feb 7, 2022 16:34
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TheWorldsaStage posted:Hard disagree. Love the Laurel and Hardy schtick. Also their relationship had the really nice send off in a dungeon in EW. Too bad Lyse couldn't be there I probably would have liked both characters more if the ARR voice direction was better, but a comedy odd couple dynamic relies heavily on delivery and timing that largely wasn't there. I was also just not a fan of Papalymo's voice.
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Feb 7, 2022 16:43
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Yeah, I can see how the delivery and reception of their dynamic is largely personal. Every time Papa opened his mouth I thought"Christ what an rear end in a top hat"
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Feb 7, 2022 16:47
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