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I can't remember if they also do this in 2016, but in Eternal, imps will regularly freak out and flub their throws if you charge at them. They are definitely more accurate at long range. I think it's the case for a few other enemies too that they get less aggressive at short range. For instance, the cyber mancubus in Eternal shoots much faster and more accurately at long range than if you're at medium range or up close. A good example of this is the last fight in Nekravol 1, where the cyber mancubus will likely hit you on the way into the room because he's at the other end of the room from you. So the answer might be to be more aggressive 
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Feb 4, 2022 17:28
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 14:10 |
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Doom Eternal is an interesting game to me because on one hand, I find it to be the pinnacle of FPS games. And on the other, I never finished it and hardly play it because, as previously stated, it’s exhausting. The closest comparison I can make is multiplayer StarCraft/ladder play. The amount of moment to moment concentration as well as physical dexterity make those kinds of games tiresome to me and I rarely play them any more.
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Feb 4, 2022 17:38
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Doom eternal peaked at the Holt gate on nightmare for me. I think I spent three weeks trying to get through it. Every time I fired it up, I couldn’t do more than 30 minutes or so, just because of how much concentration it required. I eventually got better and beat it, and I think took a few days off. But it was still the most memorable part of the game for me. In general, I liked DLC 1 the most out of the three parts of the game. It’s a brilliant game, but it’s exhausting.
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Feb 4, 2022 19:06
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The only thing that really wears me out are the master levels, they pack in so many encounters that you're just fighting constantly through every inch of the map, you never get a break
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Feb 4, 2022 19:11
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Yeah I prefer to just watch Zero Master do the master levels lol
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Feb 4, 2022 19:16
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Yeah it took me a week or two of learning the level + attempts to finish the Super Gore Nest master level on UN. It was fun, but pretty drat exhausting. I was excited when they announced more MLs, but when they actually dropped, I played them once each and then couldn't quite work up the motivation to go through all that again.
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Feb 4, 2022 19:18
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My GF always knew when I was playing Doom Eternal because I would be concentrating really hard and there would be a sharp intake of breath held for several seconds whenever poo poo got really intense. I really like the game, but I wish it didn't fully lean into the rock paper scissors thing and gave you a bit more leeway in how you wanted to approach a fight.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:59
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I’ve said it before that I can totally see where people would bounce off of DE. Conversely, I can’t say I’ve played very many FPS games that feel the way DE does. Like, it’s a very distinct and frenetic experience, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see them continue to lean into these mechanics with subsequent titles.
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Feb 4, 2022 22:06
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When Eternal clicks, it's really good, but it's something you have to play regularly, otherwise your reflexes decline and you get utterly boned in later levels Or in my case, rusted so bad I literally ran out of ammo for every weapon during Cultist Base so I'm stuck running around the arena with a chainsaw searching for fodder
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Feb 4, 2022 22:18
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I’m totally fine with ID leaning way into the design of DE for a new follow up. But I’ll probably stay on the lower difficulties just so I can breathe a bit and have more room to improvise and gently caress up. Also, I’ll say it again because I know no one agrees with me: I like the lore and story telling. It’s great big dumb heavy metal bullshit, it doesn’t overstay it’s welcome (IMO), and I’m totally here for it.
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Feb 4, 2022 23:45
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Vinylshadow posted:When Eternal clicks, it's really good, but it's something you have to play regularly, otherwise your reflexes decline and you get utterly boned in later levels I played the main campaign a few months ago, and then just recently played the DLCs. I was so insanely rusty, and they pretty much throw you right back into the deep end with the DLCs lol I don't really understand why some people think the combat is so prescriptive though, I feel like there's lots of room to do whatever you want? The main thing is that you generally want to optimize your flame belcher usage, and get a few glory/chainsaw kills here and there, but otherwise, there are so many tools to use, and I feel like you're not really required to use anything (other than the DLC enemies that require specific weapons) Most of the weapon mods are viable and are suitable for distinct playstyles. I barely even use the ballista most of the time, not because it's not good, it's just not my style, and there are lots of other options.
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Feb 5, 2022 02:56
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chaosapiant posted:Also, I’ll say it again because I know no one agrees with me: I like the lore and story telling. It’s great big dumb heavy metal bullshit, it doesn’t overstay it’s welcome (IMO), and I’m totally here for it. I love the lore in Eternal. It's very dumb but also incredibly entertaining and I thoroughly enjoyed discovering all the lore pages too.
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Feb 5, 2022 09:28
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I love Eternal's gameplay loop so I'm biased, but what I always wonder about people preferring 2016 is - why not just lower the difficulty? I found that in 2016 you just become such an overpowered killing machine by the end that you can use whatever weapon you want and clear levels without too much exhaustion. You're more strolling around the level, murdering things in the ways you want them. Lowering the difficulty in Eternal accomplishes the same thing for me since you're not immediately dead if you miss a Flame Belch or two. edit: oh I guess that's what someone said a few posts above.
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Feb 5, 2022 09:53
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I hope that, if they make a new Quake single player game (doesn't matter if with Q1's style enemies or Stroggs) don't go overboard with Eternal's ammo mechanics but lean on the mobility/rocket jumping side of things.
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Feb 5, 2022 09:55
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10th Feb is end of the season for Battlemode / Horde Get grinding if you want those skins/titles/icons/whatever!
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Feb 5, 2022 10:16
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Oops I lied, looks like I'm going to take a break between 2016 and Eternal to (re)play Doom 64 on Switch first. Man I have so much nostalgia for this game. I remember being pleasantly surprised by it many years ago when I played it as a rental. I don't remember much about it though so it will be be sort of newish to me and memories will come back to me as I play (like when I played the remaster of Day of the Tentacle and would suddenly remember the solution to a puzzle).
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Feb 5, 2022 10:44
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JOHN SKELETON posted:I love Eternal's gameplay loop so I'm biased, but what I always wonder about people preferring 2016 is - why not just lower the difficulty? Yeah that, I want my metal album cover power fantasy without feeling like I just ran a 4k.
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Feb 5, 2022 15:34
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Deakul posted:Yeah that, I want my metal album cover power fantasy without feeling like I just ran a 4k. This but unironically.
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Feb 5, 2022 16:12
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Doom Eternal put so much focus on resource management that it is an entirely different game. Doom 2016 gave you boatloads of ammo up to and including a rune that gives you unlimited ammo for everything but the BFG and there was even a rune that fixed that so BFG ammo dropped like candy in a parade. The only thing the two games have in common is the name "Doom", otherwise they may as well be different franchises.
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Feb 5, 2022 16:24
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JOHN SKELETON posted:I love Eternal's gameplay loop so I'm biased, but what I always wonder about people preferring 2016 is - why not just lower the difficulty? Lowering the difficulty doesn't actually help me if I take a ~1 month break from Eternal and then try to get back into it. The bigger problem is the loss of twitch reflexes, and memory of which gun goes with which baddy. Also the number of enemies in each encounter, and how long each encounter lasts, seems to scale linearly from game start to game finish. So if you take a break at the end of the game, you're retraining your memory and fingers while also trying to finish a 15-minute encounter. It's exhausting to me (a 36 year old) and is the "Eternal" part of "Doom Eternal". If the 3rd game is similar I'm gonna have to force myself to play it in one weekend so I don't lose my Doomentum.
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Feb 5, 2022 16:34
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Esran posted:I can't remember if they also do this in 2016, but in Eternal, imps will regularly freak out and flub their throws if you charge at them. It’s similar in Eternal. You can actually test this by standing more or less still once having aggro from an Imp or similar enemy who’s way over the arena, and he’ll basically snipe you. The more you move, the less accurate their attacks become, but it’s actually more complex than that. The demons have some kind of “aggression tokens” they can take on you which makes the AI more deadly/accurate, and this is also something that scales with the difficulty levels. Like it’s not only “they have more health, I have less”, it’s that more of them hunt you down in a way more precise manner. This was also present in 2016 IIRC, but more important in Eternal with the Ressource management. It’s a pretty awesome way of scaling difficulty. IIRC you don’t even take a lot more damage on higher difficulties, it’s just that the demons are way more aggressive and you need to be more agile so they don’t snipe you or basically circle you up and beat you to death (hello, DLC1).
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Feb 5, 2022 16:40
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and that's how you do good difficulty scaling
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Feb 5, 2022 17:00
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:I’ve said it before that I can totally see where people would bounce off of DE. Conversely, I can’t say I’ve played very many FPS games that feel the way DE does. Like, it’s a very distinct and frenetic experience, and it wouldn’t surprise me to see them continue to lean into these mechanics with subsequent titles. Eternal reminds me of MOBAs or character action games when it comes to things like cooldowns and extra tech, and I don't make those comparisons in a bad way. Things kind of clicked when I saw Hugo record a stream of himself playing Doom Eternal, and he was playing it the way that speed runners played Doom 2016, what with the manic weapon switching between every shot and realized the game wasn't made for me and that's fine. I'd just like to maybe see if they could find a happy middle ground between Eternal and 2016, cause I think that'd be a really interesting game.
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Feb 5, 2022 20:20
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My take is that 2016 is a fun murder romp that makes you feel the actual monster. Eternal makes you feel the same but will kill you faster and requires much more focus. Once you clear a though zone in Eternal you really feel rewarded but at least for me, exhausted. I played through 2016 three times on PC and once on PS4. I played through Eternal once on PC (with both DLCs) and I started it on PS4 but really felt there that I needed KB+M to really enjoy it (or play in a lower difficulty). I don't plan on replaying Eternal anytime soon because both DLCs burned me enough. At this point, they're totally different games for me.
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Feb 6, 2022 20:34
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Blood Swamps is the best map in Eternal and after that it's a slow descent in quality. Still good, but nothing hits the "harder daddy" ball crushing difficulty better than Blood Swamps.
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Feb 6, 2022 21:06
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I was trying to play the World Spear master level yesterday, and twice I got this bug where an enemy spawned behind a closed door, so I couldn't kill them to end the encounter and open the door and progress. Really annoying to have to replay a whole master level encounter because of a bug like that
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Feb 6, 2022 21:13
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give it a bit more time after clearing the actual arena, iirc they put in a fix a while back where if an enemy isnt in a place you can reach/OOB for too long it'll automatically time out and die after a while
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Feb 7, 2022 00:11
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toasterwarrior posted:give it a bit more time after clearing the actual arena, iirc they put in a fix a while back where if an enemy isnt in a place you can reach/OOB for too long it'll automatically time out and die after a while 99% this does work, but there is the chance it doesn't - twice on ML Mars Core I've been just twiddling thumbs for a loooooong time
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Feb 7, 2022 01:22
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:Eternal reminds me of MOBAs or character action games when it comes to things like cooldowns and extra tech, and I don't make those comparisons in a bad way. Lower the difficulty. There’s this myth that you must keep swapping weapons and matching a certain weapon with a certain monster. You do on higher difficulties. I play on the lowest and there’s a pretty wide enough margin that to me it still feels like Doom 2016 but with faster gameplay and more toys to play with. You can get away with whatever you want to use. Just stay mobile and you’ll be fine.
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Feb 7, 2022 17:19
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I feel like Eternal is very similar in its relation to 2016 as modern Doom wads are to og Doom levels ... that is, insta-slamming the UV difficulty button is actually a bad idea, unless you consume Doom on the regular
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Feb 7, 2022 17:37
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It's true, people do think unless you've got your balls in a vice, you're not playing the game "as you should be" 
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Feb 8, 2022 01:15
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chaosapiant posted:Lower the difficulty. There’s this myth that you must keep swapping weapons and matching a certain weapon with a certain monster. You do on higher difficulties. I play on the lowest and there’s a pretty wide enough margin that to me it still feels like Doom 2016 but with faster gameplay and more toys to play with. You can get away with whatever you want to use. Just stay mobile and you’ll be fine. This is going to sound combative but I really mean it in a friendly way, but I cannot get people to understand I have no problem with Eternal's difficulty. I just don't like how Eternal is designed to be played, even on the lowest difficulties. I'm not keen on its desire for the player to rely so heavily on extra powers and abilities and alt fires and low ammo counts for guns. I like to shoot guns, and it feels like Eternal wants the player to do everything except just shoot aliens with bullets. And when I say that the difficulty doesn't bother me, I'll usually then get the reply that "You can still play it like Doom 2016 without all of the extra stuff," which I also disagree with. Even on the lowest difficulty, you can't play Eternal like 2016. They're just designed differently, and every time someone tells me that they're not really that different, I tell them to play Eternal and shoot enemies with only standard ammunition and maybe the occasional alt-fire and see how far it gets them. I loved 2016's gameplay. I don't like Eternal's, because it's not designed the same. I don't think Eternal is inferior, I just prefer 2016's combat loop and enemy AI and I hope that id maybe at the very least dials it back a bit with the next game.
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Feb 8, 2022 02:53
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Coquito Ergo Sum posted:They're just designed differently, and every time someone tells me that they're not really that different, I tell them to play Eternal and shoot enemies with only standard ammunition and maybe the occasional alt-fire and see how far it gets them. I say this not to be a contrarian but to sheepishly admit to how god drat thick headed I am. I played Eternal this way on Hurt Me Plenty, just like it was 2016. I compulsively dashed every two seconds once I got the second dash charge and regularly chainsawed zombies for ammo but just meandered around like a Doom 1/2 newbie trying to pick enemies off with my favorite guns fired steadily at distance. I actually didn't like the super shotgun and meathook because the cyber mancubi trained me to avoid melee since they have a blood punch prompt but their AI usually makes them slam the ground before you can land it and get out. I started playing as Eternal "wants you to" on a second playthrough on UV and for the obligatory difficulty spikes of the DLC. I like the super shotty and meathook now. Just my two cents on playing Eternal like a lunkhead(me.)
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Feb 8, 2022 03:02
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you're not going to tell me that doom 2016's standard firing modes are good enough to push through most of the game in high diffs, the only one i can think of that stands out as better than their eternal counterpart is the SSG and that's only because it's the only gun without a real alt-fire (and also you need to upgrade it completely to get the double shot per reload)
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Feb 8, 2022 03:31
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toasterwarrior posted:you're not going to tell me that doom 2016's standard firing modes are good enough to push through most of the game in high diffs, the only one i can think of that stands out as better than their eternal counterpart is the SSG and that's only because it's the only gun without a real alt-fire (and also you need to upgrade it completely to get the double shot per reload) There's no comparison because it's designed differently. Doom 2016 has a rune that gives you infinite ammo, which invalidates Eternal's resource management cycle completely (provided you maintain a certain amount of armor). You could go through whole sections of late 2016 using just the chaingun mobile turret, or just the siege alt-fire of the gauss cannon. It's a design concept that's not in Eternal intentionally because there's an intended way to play in Eternal that eschews large/infinite ammo pools.
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Feb 8, 2022 04:15
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I actually don't get the difference between "infinite ammo" and "infinite ammo if you hit C every 30 seconds" if we're debating how viable it is to blunder through the game like a caveman using nothing but the super shotty.  Though you can't afford to spend extra time messing around on high difficulty challenge spikes like bosses or the tougher arena set-ups admittedly.
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Feb 8, 2022 05:08
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Back in the day infinite ammo cheats were fun but infinite ammo no reloads cheats were a thousand times funner. Doom 2016/eternal ammo mechanics are just hosed-up reloads.
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Feb 8, 2022 05:17
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sv_fastweapons 1
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Feb 8, 2022 05:25
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Real men just play Slaughterfest 2012.
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Feb 8, 2022 11:38
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 14:10 |
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Doom 2016 could easily get pretty boring because it gave you too much ammo, which let you just fall into a rut of using only one weapon. The infinite ammo rune sucked because it completely trivialized the game, and I only used it for like a level or two before I unequipped it and went back to having fun. id correctly identified this issue, and made ammo scarce enough in eternal that you have to use more of your arsenal. This is one of the key things which elevate eternal's combat over 2016's. Other things include better grenades and more balanced weapons, for example, the rocket launcher is now actually good and useful, and the super shotgun doesn't solve every problem in the game on its own, and the ballista is not a BFG with infinite ammo like the siege mode gauss cannon was in 2016. Flame belch is also a very important addition, as it massively increases your survivability as long as you use it on a group of enemies every time it's off cooldown.
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Feb 8, 2022 11:47
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