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A big theme with Force Ghosts was that A: they're something no one has any real context for, and 2: they can't seem to actually influence the world except through people who are willing to listen to them- and likely attuned enough to the Force, and possibly them in particular, to even be able to see them. They're representative of becoming one with the will of the Force, and leaving a legacy beyond death- something that a lot of characters in Star Wars poignantly fail to do. Also, they're well, ghosts. In a lot of ways they operate basically under ghost rules, only able to haunt people and places that are significant to them, and they have 'unfinished business' with.
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Feb 9, 2022 15:02
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They aren’t “rules” tho. It’s just stuff that haven’t happened in the movies yet. Also Palpatines ability to create new life had already been covered in the prequels. He just applied it to himself or developed a new sith skill whatever.
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Feb 9, 2022 15:38
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Force Ghosts mostly work on that "as-if" logic SMG mentioned--it's as if Obi-Wan was actually appearing to Luke, when Luke went to Old Ben's cabin and read his notes, etc. Time travel and resurrection can very quickly make your setting incomprehensible and alienating to people who are superturbomegageeks for it. Not even the MCU, I don't think, could get away with making a bunch more Infinity Wars where it's just a bunch of zany stuff happening where nothing makes sense. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Feb 9, 2022 |
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Feb 9, 2022 15:49
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If I remember my old EU stuff, there were Jedi who time traveled
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Feb 9, 2022 15:51
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When lightning struck the Jedi Library after Luke chickened out of burning it, it was as if his old master was teaching him a final lesson after all this time
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Feb 9, 2022 15:56
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euphronius posted:They aren’t “rules” tho. It’s just stuff that haven’t happened in the movies yet. What new life did he create, and don't say Anakin Also I'm pretty sure George always intended for dead to be dead, and basically confirmed it when he went "Yeah palpatine is very dead idk what they are doing"
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Feb 9, 2022 16:26
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Nodoze posted:What new life did he create, and don't say Anakin Don't bother Jake, it's euphronius Town.
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Feb 9, 2022 16:52
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Nodoze posted:Also I'm pretty sure George always intended for dead to be dead, and basically confirmed it when he went "Yeah palpatine is very dead idk what they are doing" To be fair, Lucas was the one who originally suggested bringing Palpatine back as a clone in Dark Empire (the original pitch from the authors was to have someone running round dressed as Vader). He seems to go back and forth on the idea. He suggested having the ghosts of Darth Bane and Revan in an episode of Clone Wars, then changed his mind and asked them to take the scene out because he didn't want the Sith to survive beyond their individual deaths. A version of Bane showed up a few seasons later anyway, but Yoda handwaved it away as an illusion so might not have actually been his ghost.
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Feb 9, 2022 18:39
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I liked the idea of Sith force ghosts existing, but basically being cursed & confined to a specific space due to the influence of their power and malevolence. A good force ghosty has reach across the universe, can show up and talk to whoever they want. A sith force ghost is trapped in 1 spot essentially, turning it into a haunted house. That is kind of how it operates in Clone Wars, as Yoda visits the temple of Bane & talks to his ghost. If I were trying to introduce Palpatine in the ST i'd have had his force ghost inhabiting the blown up remains of the death star. If you wanted him to have some kind of villain status have imperial remnants worshipping his ghostyness and he can still be the reason behind things. Have his cackling ghost trying to use the force dyad bs to revive himself instead of being a clone already. Snoke is just an out of pocket warlord who took his power willingly but then decided to lounge around in gold robes & rule the galaxy instead of do the work he promised.
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Feb 9, 2022 18:50
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Palpatine coming back as a clone isn't inherently undoable in star wars, but the highly derivative and uncreative way its done is what makes it so bad. He tosses off old quotes, doesn't look any different, and has a very broad, poorly defined plan. He's mostly a copy of the exact way pals talks in return of the jedi minus the direct quoting of rots. Dark Empire similarily brought back palps, but made him look different and have a more defined plan and actions.
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Feb 9, 2022 18:54
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Jerkface posted:I liked the idea of Sith force ghosts existing, but basically being cursed & confined to a specific space due to the influence of their power and malevolence. A good force ghosty has reach across the universe, can show up and talk to whoever they want. A sith force ghost is trapped in 1 spot essentially, turning it into a haunted house. When we found out that McDiarmid was going to be in the movie, I think most people just expected Kylo Ren to have an encounter with Palpatine's ghost or a recording on a holocron, instead of what we got.
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Feb 9, 2022 19:05
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Probably the next time palpatine comes back he'll be a digital homonculus and at least be able to move around, unlike the inferior flesh being they had to use for star wars 9
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Feb 9, 2022 19:12
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Nodoze posted:What new life did he create, and don't say Anakin Right sorry he was searching for it (the power to create new life) at the sex opera , and then creates cyborgs You said don’t say anakin but …
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Feb 9, 2022 19:18
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No Mods No Masters posted:Probably the next time palpatine comes back he'll be a digital homonculus and at least be able to move around, unlike the inferior flesh being they had to use for star wars 9 That would actually work well for Palpatine. Looking forward to someone sneaking that good idea past Disney in Ep XVI.
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Feb 9, 2022 21:35
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Palpatine is Neo
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Feb 9, 2022 22:06
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When people shoot at Jedi, why don’t they try using the stun setting?
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Feb 9, 2022 22:56
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General Dog posted:When people shoot at Jedi, why don’t they try using the stun setting? No Mods No Masters posted:Probably the next time palpatine comes back he'll be a digital homonculus and at least be able to move around, unlike the inferior flesh being they had to use for star wars 9   
Assepoester fucked around with this message at 23:25 on Feb 9, 2022 |
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Feb 9, 2022 23:17
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There's an Imperial crew in one of the Alphabet Squadron books that sets up a makeshift shrine around one of these guys, complete with blood sacrifice 
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Feb 10, 2022 04:31
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Tbf that’s not at all what the stun setting looks like in a new hope
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Feb 10, 2022 05:13
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No Mods No Masters posted:Probably the next time palpatine comes back he'll be a digital homonculus and at least be able to move around, unlike the inferior flesh being they had to use for star wars 9 Still can't believe Emperor Puppetine didn't catch on after that
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Feb 10, 2022 05:22
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Should have brought him back as a Henson style muppet.
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Feb 10, 2022 05:29
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DeimosRising posted:Tbf that’s not at all what the stun setting looks like in a new hope   Like how the lightsabers got thin from disuse 
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Feb 10, 2022 06:34
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Nodoze posted:Aside from Maul, in Star Wars dead has always been dead. Force Ghosts are a thing, but until Rian Johnson and his big idiot head they were just there to stand around and talk to you. They couldn't interact with the world at all. Maul I think most people have kind of accepted because it was very largely limited to just Clone Wars/Rebels and did a ton for the character, he got a fitting death, and didn't do anything to harm the overall story that I can think of. Also, hilariously enough, he got a better explanation for surviving than Palpatine did Except Time Travel "exists"....unfortunately.
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Feb 10, 2022 08:46
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Darth TNT posted:Except Time Travel "exists"....unfortunately. Kind of. The World Between Worlds isn't quite time travel, although it is definitely pushing the limit of what "should" be in star wars and thankfully was really just relegated to the cartoon once. I do wish they would use it to just undo the sequel trilogy though lol IIRC it's not clear if it actually "exists" anymore either, didn't the temple break apart?
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Feb 10, 2022 14:39
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The United States posted:This was like 25 years before new hope, maybe things changed Yeah maybe. In the cartoon it’s like a stun donut, in the movie it’s more like an expanding cone of naptime
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Feb 10, 2022 15:22
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Nodoze posted:Kind of. The World Between Worlds isn't quite time travel, although it is definitely pushing the limit of what "should" be in star wars and thankfully was really just relegated to the cartoon once. I do wish they would use it to just undo the sequel trilogy though lol There's other gateways, like when Yoda used it to communicate with Ezra, or when Palps came knocking, which means there's likely gates on Coruscant and Dagobah
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Feb 10, 2022 15:57
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I wonder how stun is even supposed to work. My best guess is that instead of shooting a bolt of plasma it sort of sprays it, and that creates a wall of compressed air that hits the target like a sheet of glass. That probably doesn't make scientific sense but it's my best guess as to how you stun someone with plasma.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:24
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Halloween Jack posted:I wonder how stun is even supposed to work. My best guess is that instead of shooting a bolt of plasma it sort of sprays it, and that creates a wall of compressed air that hits the target like a sheet of glass. That probably doesn't make scientific sense but it's my best guess as to how you stun someone with plasma. In animated depictions it turns into blue electricity when it hits objects.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:32
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Halloween Jack posted:I wonder how stun is even supposed to work. My best guess is that instead of shooting a bolt of plasma it sort of sprays it, and that creates a wall of compressed air that hits the target like a sheet of glass. That probably doesn't make scientific sense but it's my best guess as to how you stun someone with plasma. I think this is how the Stouker Concussion Rifle was supposed to work.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:35
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Halloween Jack posted:I wonder how stun is even supposed to work. My best guess is that instead of shooting a bolt of plasma it sort of sprays it, and that creates a wall of compressed air that hits the target like a sheet of glass. That probably doesn't make scientific sense but it's my best guess as to how you stun someone with plasma. An energy pulse creating EMF that disrupts your central nervous system? Idk 
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Feb 10, 2022 17:28
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Taking people prisoner in star wars increases the probability of some bullshit happening by approximately 10000 percent. That's why our wise heroes always keep it set to kill
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Feb 10, 2022 17:34
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Nodoze posted:Kind of. The World Between Worlds isn't quite time travel, although it is definitely pushing the limit of what "should" be in star wars and thankfully was really just relegated to the cartoon once. I do wish they would use it to just undo the sequel trilogy though lol Reminds me of the Mortis arc, which is the other time Star Wars dabbles in anything close to time travel. And that's its own kind of fun.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:43
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jisforjosh posted:An energy pulse creating EMF that disrupts your central nervous system? Idk You know, I'm probably overthinking it. It could just as easily be an electroshock gun mounted on the same frame. I'm sure a battery capable of ionizing plasma can handle that. It would explain why so many Star Wars guns look like real guns with extra clunky stuff on the barrel.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:21
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Wasn't the whole Palpatine resurrection plotline originally going to be due to some wacky follower of his finding a way? That's literally all they needed to make it less frustrating. If random new insane man is hell bent on resurrecting Palpatine and has the means to thanks to the whatever device, that tracks fine with Star Wars. If that was an original plotline, I'm sure it got cut to make room, they added the "somehow, Palpatine has returned" line, and called it a day. Not only is Palpatine just deciding to come back alive in Fortnite more ridiculous than Star Wars usually is, it's unsatisfying to most, and is the first major plot point of the movie. euphronius posted:Also Palpatines ability to create new life had already been covered in the prequels. He just applied it to himself or developed a new sith skill whatever. Fair point, but if that's what they were going for, they should have been more clear about it. It's brought up as "OMG HOW?" and "I dunno, he's into all sorts of weird Sith and cloning poo poo, who knows", basically explicitly telling the viewer to not worry about a pretty major detail right off the bat. It was somehow less subtle than when in Looper they start having a discussion about time travel mechanics before saying "don't think about it too hard" or something along those lines.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:38
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Glottis posted:Not only is Palpatine just deciding to come back alive in Fortnite more ridiculous than Star Wars usually is, it's unsatisfying to most, and is the first major plot point of the movie. THE DEAD SPEAK! Just think if Palpatine hadn't made that announcement weeks before enacting his final ultimate plan everything would have worked fine I believe originally when Matt Smith was briefly involved, his character was going to be some Sith zealot guy that gets possessed by Palpatine. Not like a 1:1 change but I think a lot of the sith fetch quest stuff we see in the movie stemmed from what would have been him figuring this stuff out?
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Feb 10, 2022 19:19
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Seems like the last 100+ years of storytelling convention would have our heroes do their two-act scavenger hunt and then get the Palpatine reveal at the end of the trail, along with the audience. Instead, over the course of the five minutes of the movie, the audience gets the reveal, then the villain gets the reveal, and then the protagonists get the reveal, and then the scavenger hunt starts.
General Dog fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 19:25
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Disney has no desire to adhere to storytelling convention. They aren't trying to tell a story, they're trying to minimize audience dissatisfaction with their brand via a series of images and sounds displayed in a sequence.
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Feb 10, 2022 20:53
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2house2fly posted:Disney has no desire to adhere to storytelling convention. They aren't trying to tell a story, they're trying to minimize audience dissatisfaction with their brand via a series of images and sounds displayed in a sequence.
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Feb 10, 2022 21:28
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I really think they've found the right medium for the slop with TV. They got the wedge in quickly and it's already to the point where people will watch a boba show that is almost 50% robert rodriguez by volume, shrug and say it kinda sucked but they liked seeing star wars things, and move on to consume next product
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Feb 10, 2022 21:36
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You could add some semblance of structure to the movie just by excising or moving the scene at the beginning where Kylo finds Palpatine. Instead give it an Indiana Jones type structure where the Resistance intercepts intel that the First Order is looking for something really important, but neither side knows exactly what it is they’re going to find. So Team Kylo and Team Rey are racing to find this thing, whatever it is, that might tip the balance of the war. That way it’s in act 3 when everyone gets to Exogol and that Palpatine and his big fleet and the stakes are fully revealed. It would be pretty trivial to assemble a cut that unfolds this way with existing footage, and I suspect that this may have in fact been the original structure. Why it would’ve been changed to what we got somewhere along the way, I have no idea.
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Feb 10, 2022 21:49
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