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Grouchio posted:You weren't being serious? Harumpf. It is clear the Canadian authorities do not want to repeat their ancestors' brutalities (against protests) unless they absolutely have to. Do you want the truckers demoralized and slowly dispersed, or do you want them dead, Cicero? No no, i was just wondering honestly how a less police state than the US handles something like this honestly. Our capitalist overlords deal with these things very differently. Letting if burn itself out is an unheard of approach here in the states. Also these people don't really seem violent, just kinda loud and stupid.
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Feb 10, 2022 15:06
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AAAAAaAaaAaghhhh, the Frennnshhquote:https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/06/09/france-riot-police-george-floyd-protests/ They're not without their problems - there are a lot of one-eyed former protesters walking around the streets of France - but apparently they're trying to adapt and not being as terrible at it as, oh idk let's just pick a random agency, the TPS-led G20 police might be if you gave them hats and bats and pointed them at the hippies
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Feb 10, 2022 15:13
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TulliusCicero posted:
Outside of the racist/sexist assaulting of folks on the street in Ottawa. Or the ripping masks off the faces of passerbys. Or that attempt to burn down an apartment building, if that was the protestors. There's been far more violent protests but the media seems to be downplaying what is there.
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Feb 10, 2022 15:36
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Mokinokaro posted:Outside of the racist/sexist assaulting of folks on the street in Ottawa. Or the ripping masks off the faces of passerbys.
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Feb 10, 2022 15:38
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flakeloaf posted:There are similarities between this crowd's arc and the one taken by the INM protesters in 2012/2013, and the homelessness protesters before then, and at that time we had no trouble at all accepting that the group with the gripe had been co-opted by practiced, external agitators who didn't give a poo poo about their cause and were just there to cause trouble. Is the fact that this group's complaint - and the demo doing the complaining - aligns generally with the perspective we'd expect the cops to take the only reason we're having trouble accepting this now? A crowd shows up, they hang out for a bit, their demands get increasingly wild and eventually the state loses patience and shuffles them on. I don't for a moment doubt that there is a contingent of far more lucid and organized people directing the supply and logistics encampment. There would have to be, the yahoos who've been honking up the downtown core don't have the wherewithal to run that kind of thing. What I'm questioning is why that fact suddenly provides cover for the police letting them set up a supply and logistics camp in the first place. IMO it doesn't, and vague suggestions of far-right terror threats do not explain anything about the OPS response from the beginning. I think the article sounds a lot like someone being fed a story that's plausible and even at least partially true, to try to rehabilitate the image of Sloly/OPS. The fact that there are now, over ten days into the protest, members of dangerous far-right groups with violent tactics does not explain or justify why the protest was allowed to embed itself to this point, even thought the article seems to suggest that these existence of these people is why OPS has been almost entirely hands off. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 15:50
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Mokinokaro posted:Outside of the racist/sexist assaulting of folks on the street in Ottawa. Or the ripping masks off the faces of passerbys. Yeah that poo poo we aren't hearing about here at all. I did know it was some loud racist truckers and some chuds, but I thought they were just driving around hooting and hollering, not assaulting people in the streets.
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Feb 10, 2022 15:58
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It's not being discussed by the media but lots of accounts from Ottawa citizens online. I suspect some of the rare charges/arrests have been related to them.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:02
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Yeah everyone I know that lives in the core has been harassed verbally at a minimum. The occupiers are also super loving racist. And I'm sure the irony's lost on them but tons of businesses are closed still as a result.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:11
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TulliusCicero posted:No no, i was just wondering honestly how a less police state than the US handles something like this honestly. Our capitalist overlords deal with these things very differently. Letting if burn itself out is an unheard of approach here in the states. Some of them are stupid Others are violent and have harassed and assaulted doctors and nurses, hassled people wearing masks, and a few of them tried to burn down an apartment building while ducttaping the front doors shut from the outside. You know, attempted mass murder and terrorism. If the cops weren’t always there to protect them and not bother them whatsoever, I think people would’ve started trying to run them over by now
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Feb 10, 2022 16:18
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https://twitter.com/OttawaPolice/status/1491788988654383115 Hearts and minds
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Feb 10, 2022 16:24
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infernal machines posted:What I'm questioning is why that fact suddenly provides cover for the police letting them set up a supply and logistics camp in the first place. IMO it doesn't, and vague suggestions of far-right terror threats do not explain anything about the OPS response from the beginning. The only defense I can think of, and it's not a great one, is that it kept them from establishing one of their own in a worse place, like Major's Hill Park or Lebreton Flats. At least the RCGT lot can be pressure-washed, and if something terrible happens there, oh no, dozens of baseball fans would be slightly miffed. That still doesn't explain why competent city leadership (both political and policing) allowed themselves to be surprised by a group that took days to get here and broadcasted the parade on CBC. I'm not surprised to see a news outlet trying to shine up Sloly's image a bit. I am surprised that it was in the post and not the sun.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:37
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https://twitter.com/TorontoStar/status/1491794356428181504 lol
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Feb 10, 2022 16:38
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Local Police Agency Really Serious This Time, Counts to Two and Three-Quarters
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Feb 10, 2022 16:38
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I think we're up to eight auto plants shut down today in Ontario as well due to border blockades. That's probably in the neighborhood of 15,000-20,000 people off work. Hearts and minds indeed.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:39
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Another Bill posted:I think we're up to eight auto plants shut down today in Ontario as well due to border blockades. That's probably in the neighborhood of 15,000-20,000 people off work. Hearts and minds indeed. That's a whole lot of loving money burning. I would expect someone would care about this more than pretty much anything else that these chucklefucks have done so far. flakeloaf posted:The only defense I can think of, and it's not a great one, is that it kept them from establishing one of their own in a worse place, like Major's Hill Park or Lebreton Flats. At least the RCGT lot can be pressure-washed, and if something terrible happens there, oh no, dozens of baseball fans would be slightly miffed. That still doesn't explain why competent city leadership (both political and policing) allowed themselves to be surprised by a group that took days to get here and broadcasted the parade on CBC. Yeah, I'm just stuck on the whole "why did you let them set one up anywhere?" part. It was "negotiated" according to OPS. That was very clearly a mistake, and not just in hindsight, you could reasonably anticipate that having a camp with which to supply the protest would allow the protest to continue. There has to be a very clear and articulable reason for allowing them to make any kind of supply encampment, and "We were worried there were dangerous far-right agitators in the group" isn't it.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:52
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infernal machines posted:That's a whole lot of loving money burning. I would expect someone would care about this more than pretty much anything else that these chucklefucks have done so far. It depends on who is in charge of where that money is burning. Recall that when the NDP government of Ontario got into power the corporate world was happily willing to go on strike and torpedo the economy to discredit them. The wealthy that control these businesses are sitting on gigantic piles of capital. The cost of idling their plants if they feel it'll achieve a greater political goal of just opening up the entire economy and ending all Covid mandates is relatively cheap. Bonus points if it puts a fascist government in charge via coup, then they get to undo all the labor laws, reduce taxes and make Canada a slave state where it has even less labour rights than the US does. https://pressprogress.ca/next-step-...pG2IPUevseLb8oA See, some of these truck company owners have millions of dollars and would happily help pitch in to fight a civil war here if their demands aren't met... You got former counterterrorism specialists, RCMP security detail officers and military officers who've spent the last 20 years wargaming possible worst case scenario terrorist operations that could destabilize or bring down western governments and now they are employing that knowledge against their own country to achieve fascist political goals. We are in extremely deep trouble here. There's literally no plan, no idea about who might be loyal in the armed forces and who might not be and no means to secure the capital. Any attempt to actually remove them might trigger a violent backlash and kick off a civil war the country is horribly unprepared to fight. There's no good options here.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:06
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The OPS is clearly in bed with the truckers so just sick the military on em already, Trudeau.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:08
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Grouchio posted:The OPS is clearly in bed with the truckers so just sick the military on em already, Trudeau. The military may not follow orders either and if he does send the military it might galvanize public support in favor of the protestors because it'll be seen as an authoritarian crackdown. It could also get the US involved in our affairs. It is an extremely bad look for your politically if you are marketing yourself as a champion of human rights and then you use the war measures act to take a blatantly authoritarian looking stand against these people. The media is clearly siding with the truckers too and giving them plenty of friendly coverage.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:15
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TulliusCicero posted:Yeah that poo poo we aren't hearing about here at all. I did know it was some loud racist truckers and some chuds, but I thought they were just driving around hooting and hollering, not assaulting people in the streets. My wife is a healthcare worker downtown and we’ve arranged for security to escort her to and from her vehicle. The security guard is 6’6”, and on the first walk back, he said “I totally get why this was necessary”.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:24
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You can’t use the military on them, they’re (Ok, yes, Trudad used the military on the people of Quebec, but they were not
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Feb 10, 2022 17:36
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Kraftwerk posted:The military may not follow orders either and if he does send the military it might galvanize public support in favor of the protestors because it'll be seen as an authoritarian crackdown. We can throw them into the stockade and cashier them if they do that.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:37
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StratGoatCom posted:We can throw them into the stockade and cashier them if they do that. Who can? The military police? They’re like double cops.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:46
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Some (many?) of the rank-and-file may be on the protestor's side but I don't think there's any way they don't follow orders in this case. I'm prepared to eat my words here but obeying is beaten into you from day one in the military; doing dumb poo poo that your command forces you to do is like 99% of the job. It's a world of difference from cops.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:52
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I suspect the Vandoos would have zero issues dealing with Anglos.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:59
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Kraftwerk posted:Any attempt to actually remove them might trigger a violent backlash and kick off a civil war the country is horribly unprepared to fight. There's no good options here. Trudeau actively picked a fight with antivaxers and those opposed to mandates etc. Turns out that was a bad fight to pick. Anyway, does anyone have links to big photo galleries of the protests? I'm specifically looking for flags and other political symbols. I figure there's a lot of weird or obscure ones I'm not seeing in regular reporting.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:10
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Speaking only for myself, in my own personal opinion that has nothing at all to do with anyone else, I'd expect the MPs to need to be jubilantly happy at the prospect of something policey to do, and that this glee would overshadow whatever shared ideologies probably exist between themselves and the protesters. As for the rank-and-file military, a number already have been hoofed out for refusing to adhere to vaccination guildelines. The rest have toed that particular line, and may not have the patience you'd expect from the common man with people who refuse to go to that standard. A smart sergeant-major would line them up and tell them flatout that anyone who has a fuckin problem with option A can fall out and mark time while she comes up with option B. Nobody will enjoy option B.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:14
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acumen posted:Some (many?) of the rank-and-file may be on the protestor's side but I don't think there's any way they don't follow orders in this case. I'm prepared to eat my words here but obeying is beaten into you from day one in the military; doing dumb poo poo that your command forces you to do is like 99% of the job. It's a world of difference from cops. I mean you already order the troops to not sexually harass women/minorities, or be loving creeps. Yet we lost the whole senior leadership due to the multiple seperate sex scandals and coverups. I'm not exactly sanguine that our troops are on our side especially if they support the "protestors"
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Feb 10, 2022 18:15
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Count Roland posted:Trudeau actively picked a fight with antivaxers and those opposed to mandates etc. Turns out that was a bad fight to pick. Would you care to elaborate on how exactly Trudeau picked a fight with antivaxxers and led to them occupying downtown Ottawa and several border crossings? Because that sounds like complete bullshit, all I've seen him do is defend the rule of law.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:20
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Another Bill posted:Would you care to elaborate on how exactly Trudeau picked a fight with antivaxxers and led to them occupying downtown Ottawa and several border crossings? Because that sounds like complete bullshit, all I've seen him do is defend the rule of law. The online right started freaking out because Trudeau said some anti-vaxxers are anti-science, and so on https://westernstandardonline.com/2021/12/trudeau-calls-the-unvaccinated-racist-and-misogynistic-extremists/ That led Jorb Peterson to start freaking out, along with Bernier and the rest
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Feb 10, 2022 18:29
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MNIMWA posted:The online right started freaking out because Trudeau said some anti-vaxxers are anti-science, and so on Anti-vaxxers are the epitome of Anti-science, so yeah that's a completely accurate take Zero data to back up their wacko conspiracy theories. There really is no rational arguement to being anti-vax besides medical conditions, and we really have to stop pretending like every other destructive thing these loving chuds do it is a lifestyle choice, when it's just spiteful bullshit to be hateful fuckwits.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:42
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MNIMWA posted:The online right started freaking out because Trudeau said some anti-vaxxers are anti-science, and so on Yeah the right wing in Canada only started to freak out about Trudeau in December of 2021. jesus loving christ, can you people go home?
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Feb 10, 2022 18:44
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Trudeau making chuds so mad they take years off their life every time they see a picture of him is the only thing I like about Trudeau
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Feb 10, 2022 18:48
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Yeah it's not like this is the third far right protest against Trudeau. (The first two being the hijacked yellow vest movement and united we roll)
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Feb 10, 2022 18:48
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https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/conservatives-to-force-vote-calling-for-feds-to-present-plan-to-end-covid-19-mandates-1.5776015 that's right, legitimize the truckers
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Feb 10, 2022 18:59
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Basically the protester's demands are Trudeau's head on a pike and nothing less is going to get them out.
Testikles fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 19:02
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ZeeBoi posted:https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/conservatives-to-force-vote-calling-for-feds-to-present-plan-to-end-covid-19-mandates-1.5776015 I've got a proposed plan: 1) gently caress you 2) get vaccinated or deal with it
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Feb 10, 2022 19:08
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The right wing has been freaking out about Trudeau ever since he ran in 2015. First they freaked out about his hair and now they want to gently caress him. Hearing about the Castro conspiracy again is crazy because it's such an old conspiracy. Next they'll start talking about Trudeau is lying about Nibiru slamming into the Earth and that's why carbon taxes exist.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:09
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MNIMWA posted:What? I had to go check this out; there's no ikea in Vanier/Overbrook or down in Altavista/Riverside. That residential area too is largely poor, underserved, and diverse. It's also really dense and there are lots of people with vulnerabilities there, so I'm not pysched, even if there is limited foot traffic, for a chud powderkeg getting set up near them. lmao I got the Best Buy logo confused with Ikea. I'm an idiot. Absolutely amazing, of course the Airport Parkway was full of these schmucks today. Who could have foreseen this series of events? https://twitter.com/RiverWardRiley/status/1491498504044392451?s=20&t=QKoihooDcFcKXAAwaGQkZg
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Feb 10, 2022 19:26
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Crow Buddy posted:Yeah the right wing in Canada only started to freak out about Trudeau in December of 2021. I'm talking about the specific freak out where they're mad about him disrespecting anti vaxxers, not one of the many earlier freakouts ETA: and that one freak out I'm referencing is probably just the latest one where they were mad at how he characterized them (accurately) as morons
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Feb 10, 2022 19:45
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MNIMWA posted:I'm talking about the specific freak out where they're mad about him disrespecting anti vaxxers, not one of the many earlier freakouts Well, I am sure this freak out was fundamentally different than those times they freaked out when he said "Hello, I'm Justin Trudeau" or "ummm..."
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Feb 10, 2022 19:57
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