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Zokari posted:Jesus, I'm not really that mad. So many healers trying to min/max some very easy dungeons ITT Oof.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:20
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Why would I want to heal when I could be spamming more aoes?iPodschun posted:The point of the swap conversation for P1S is if you go back to your original position or not. The joonbob video has the south tank and southeast DPS swap final positions if the south blocks are not iceiceice Yeah, pretty much as long as either tank swaps with any DPS the must-swap configuration will go smoothly. MT/D3 is just one of the standards (thank god because I'm a career OT and can't be hosed to learn the swap).
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Feb 10, 2022 17:22
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its not that youre mad its that youre getting upset that a healer played very well and nothing bad happened
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Feb 10, 2022 17:22
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I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm just trying to reduce any potential frustration with healers by pointing out that it seems like it went pretty well, all things considered.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:25
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Arist posted:If they're a WHM or an AST it's entirely likely they're trying to get the maximum value out of a Benediction or an Essential Dignity by letting you get as low as possible. Essential Dignity maxes its potency out at 30%, so there's no need to play chicken that hard with it.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:28
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Anyway, as the DPS in my static who swaps with a tank for P1S Intemperance, the swaps are easier to execute than the standard clock setups for me.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:29
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Essential Dignity maxes its potency out at 30%, so there's no need to play chicken that hard with it. Good to know this, at least.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:29
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Zokari posted:Jesus, I'm not really that mad. So many healers trying to min/max some very easy dungeons ITT lol you’re scared of dying to these very easy dungeons
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Feb 10, 2022 17:31
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In my day, we used to really gamble when it came to healing.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:31
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Saint Freak posted:In my day, we used to really gamble when it came to healing. Why have you blighted me by making me remember this
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Feb 10, 2022 17:32
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That's still on my WHM bar.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:36
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Bring Cleric Stance back as SMN ability for physick spamming.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:38
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I love bad healers because I play warrior and can hit all my buttons and then think "These poor bastards need me and I don't need them"
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Feb 10, 2022 17:39
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If I hit a single heal on a WAR in experts I wonder where my life has gone wrong.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:40
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I should really learn to pay attention to whether a WHM has used Benediction or not when I tank. I've only ever done it twice I think but the "use Superbolide immediately after the WHM uses Benediction" thing is simultaneously embarrassing and very funny.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:41
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Gruckles posted:Bring Cleric Stance back as SMN ability for physick spamming. Let me freely swap between Summoner and Scholar st any time
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Feb 10, 2022 17:48
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Zokari posted:Jesus, I'm not really that mad. So many healers trying to min/max some very easy dungeons ITT more dps = less time doing the same thing you've done for weeks. i dont think about my health even as drk, i just keep rolling mitties and poppin tbns and i only die when the healer isn't blasting aoes.
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Feb 10, 2022 17:55
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Tank health does not matter unless it's 0%. Barring spells that functions better at lower values there is no difference between 100% and "enough to health to survive the next attack" Maximizing DPS is decreasing the total damage mobs do, thus doing the healer's main role of keeping everyone alive TGLT fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 18:05
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I feel like a healer letting me get real low would make my job much more stressful as a tank - I usually only pop one mitigation at a time, but pop more as things look dicey, or overlap for particular pulls, etc. If mobs are almost dead I try to avoid starting a new cooldown since that seems like it'd be better used on the next pull, but I've had that lead to dicey situations where I don't know if I should pop a CD or just hope the healer gets me so I'm not wasting a rampart for 3s of combat. Generally, I'm very prone to panic if things look bad. Because regardless if the healer does a bad job, if I die as a tank, it still ends up feeling like "could I have done something to not die?" Also as a healer sometimes i let the tank get low because im min maxing, but more often I let the tank get low because I tunnel vision / space out.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:07
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damage is mitigation  (e) seems its half time to link this again 'cos there's good poo poo in here even if you ain't healing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osvUOqeDwD0
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Feb 10, 2022 18:07
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Death is the strongest damage mitigation and the most effective interrupt
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Feb 10, 2022 18:09
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if damage is mitigation, damage dealers should only avoid damage if it will kill them if it means more dps uptime
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Feb 10, 2022 18:13
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Oxyclean posted:if damage is mitigation, damage dealers should only avoid damage if it will kill them if it means more dps uptime literally true tho admittedly "if it will kill them" is a harder question to answer than it might first seem sometimes 
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Feb 10, 2022 18:13
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I definitely stand in aoes in some dungeons when I can count on my healer to keep dpsing and ignore my 50% health bar
cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 18:15
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thinking abt that time i died to the lota final boss's second flare at 0.3%, and i was the only one cowards, the lot of that alliance
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Feb 10, 2022 18:15
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I mean yeah. DPS should dodge when they can - which is basically always - and if they can't cover their own health damage then that's less DPS uptime for the healer, but no one's HP matters when a fight is over.Oxyclean posted:I feel like a healer letting me get real low would make my job much more stressful as a tank - I usually only pop one mitigation at a time, but pop more as things look dicey, or overlap for particular pulls, etc. If mobs are almost dead I try to avoid starting a new cooldown since that seems like it'd be better used on the next pull, but I've had that lead to dicey situations where I don't know if I should pop a CD or just hope the healer gets me so I'm not wasting a rampart for 3s of combat. Honestly just pop your invuln if the start of a pull is going south and just space out your mitigations otherwise. If we're just talking dungeons it really doesn't matter if any of them are on cooldown when you get to a boss. Worst case, you die once and check in with the healer to see if you should pull fewer mobs. I totally space out as a healer too, but the takeaway is that it's perfectly fine to let a tank get that low because you can recover from it. It's fine. TGLT fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 18:15
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Oxyclean posted:I feel like a healer letting me get real low would make my job much more stressful as a tank - I usually only pop one mitigation at a time, but pop more as things look dicey, or overlap for particular pulls, etc. Mitigation is for stopping your HP from going down, not to keep you alive after it's plunged. The big mitigation should be at the start of the big pulls when the biggest damage is coming in (exception: WHM is spamming holy and stunned everything for 8 seconds, don't bother using cooldowns until that's done), if you're waiting to pop more mitigation when things look dicey you're already half-way screwed.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:16
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Arist posted:For the record, I absolutely understand how scary it can be if you're tanking correctly, using mitigations and the like, and the healer is still letting you get dangerously low, but if you didn't die that just means the healer knows what they're doing, and also that they trust you to do your job well too. My problem with healers playing chicken is I don't trust them because I've been burned before.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:18
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Oxyclean posted:if damage is mitigation, damage dealers should only avoid damage if it will kill them if it means more dps uptime Correct, but unfortunately healers didn't get this memo and waste GCDs healing you up because they assume you're bad if you do this
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Feb 10, 2022 18:18
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I had a Gunbreaker die wallpulling while healing in an Expert run the other day because they would not use: Superbolide, Arm's Length, Aurora, Nebula, Rampart (before 2/3 of a pull was already dead, at least), or even Reprisal, and I was a bit slow on the draw of swapping to spamming GCD cures since I was out of everything else. They did use Camouflage and Heart of Corundum frequently, though. On dying they typed in chat: "Sorry I was out of defensive cooldowns"
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Feb 10, 2022 18:19
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coolusername posted:If I hit a single heal on a WAR in experts I wonder where my life has gone wrong. This^ Paladins shouldn't need healing in an exdr, either, and they should never use clemency (except to keep dps alive if a healer dies). When I was running PLD, I would always start my pulls (except with WHM along) with my magic rotation and treat the holy circle heals like I use bloodwhetting on warrior. Afterwards I'd roll into physical aoe and then start using cooldowns. First would be hallowed because that's just another 10 seconds of zero damage. After that, holy shelltron regen should keep PLD up with basically no heals from the healer before you're magic spam and able to top off. If you ever feel like you need to cast clemency on yourself, hardcast holy spirit/circle instead as you'll still get a heal and keep doing damage. Spamming holy circle in aoe situations is only a 5 potency loss over your physical combo, and can be more than enough healing to keep you alive.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:20
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Oxyclean posted:if damage is mitigation, damage dealers should only avoid damage if it will kill them if it means more dps uptime This is precisely why savage raids put a damage down debuff on mechanics so it's never* a damage gain for DPS to ignore those mechanics * - I bet there's some obscure strat out there somewhere so I feel like I have to caveat this
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Feb 10, 2022 18:22
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eh, honestly there's no reason 99% of the time in dungeons as a healer to let your tank get super low till near the end of the pull, unless you really need to maximize a benediction or something (it's a dungeon, so: you don't need to). heck, sages outright shouldn't let people drop like that, since their ogcd healing also carries mitigation and is therefore better used earlier. I have found this especially true in roulette, where the potential time loss from a gunshy tank drastically slowing down because they're scared of a possible death is way more than the loss from one gcd of damage (when it's my friend tanking, I'll just let em drop as low as possible who gives a poo poo). not that wiping is the end of the world nor is healer dps bad, just that if your goal is to min/max time spent in the dungeon, correctly managing your random tank and getting them to do big pulls confidently is much more important than maximizing your DPS.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:25
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Harrow posted:This is precisely why savage raids put a damage down debuff on mechanics so it's never* a damage gain for DPS to ignore those mechanics
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Feb 10, 2022 18:26
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Valentin posted:eh, honestly there's no reason 99% of the time in dungeons as a healer to let your tank get super low till near the end of the pull, unless you really need to maximize a benediction or something (it's a dungeon, so: you don't need to). heck, sages outright shouldn't let people drop like that, since their ogcd healing also carries mitigation and is therefore better used earlier.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:30
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Harrow posted:This is precisely why savage raids put a damage down debuff on mechanics so it's never* a damage gain for DPS to ignore those mechanics If you can shield and mitigate enough to take 0 damage a bunch of these won’t apply their damage down, which was relevant in e10s later on, there was an uptime strat during the 4 dog cup game + orbs that involved kitchen sinking it to take 0 damage so that eveyone could just stand and hit the boss There was a lighter version involving tank invulns in e9s to let tanks still hit cloud of darkness during one of the patterns when she goes to the side and does 3 things
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Feb 10, 2022 18:37
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cheetah7071 posted:I definitely stand in aoes in some dungeons when I can count on my healer to keep dosing and ignore my 50% health bar the amount of times i stand in an aoe, pop bloodbath, and then i get tossed a gcd heal 
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Feb 10, 2022 18:39
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Oxyclean posted:Yeah, kind of feel like healers aren't doing themselves a lot of favors if they're sitting on oGCDs in general. Only time a tank should really go low is if you'd need to cast gcd heals. Its just like tank CDs, the sooner you use something like tetra or asssize, the sooner you can use it again.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:40
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Oxyclean posted:Yeah, kind of feel like healers aren't doing themselves a lot of favors if they're sitting on oGCDs in general. Only time a tank should really go low is if you'd need to cast gcd heals. Its just like tank CDs, the sooner you use something like tetra or asssize, the sooner you can use it again. You're right about sitting on oGCDS. That's why if you're an AST, you are ideally letting the tank get low as early as possible so you can get your essential dignity CD rolling as soon as you can without sacrificing its potency
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Feb 10, 2022 18:53
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Hogama posted:I had a Gunbreaker die wallpulling while healing in an Expert run the other day because they would not use: Superbolide, Arm's Length, Aurora, Nebula, Rampart (before 2/3 of a pull was already dead, at least), or even Reprisal, and I was a bit slow on the draw of swapping to spamming GCD cures since I was out of everything else. Almost as embarrassing as me not knowing No Mercy existed until 85
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Feb 10, 2022 18:56
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