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Oxyclean posted:Generally, I'm very prone to panic if things look bad. Because regardless if the healer does a bad job, if I die as a tank, it still ends up feeling like "could I have done something to not die?" This is where my anxiety comes from. I'm generally over it as a tank (though my ability to assess where the problem was is still nonexistent) but it's paralyzing to try and heal. In contrast, dps has their job to do but actually knowing the "what I can do to not die" part is much easier.
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Feb 10, 2022 18:56
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yeah despite what i said last page if i'm healing i get panicked real fast and overkill on watching the tank mostly probably because its my least practiced role, but nevertheless
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Feb 10, 2022 19:06
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sometimes it's even okay to die
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Feb 10, 2022 19:07
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avoiding dying in dungeons imo is only a big deal because other people are annoying. In general the time loss from a wipe, especially in modern (starts in SB but most true ShB and on) dungeons, is near negligible. the time loss to other people getting pissy in chat or single pulling or turning into honest healers, however, can be massive.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:12
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There’s that, but also for me I’d like to think that tanking in dungeons is prepping me to tank harder content like raids someday. So if I die in expert dungeons, that must mean I’m still not “good enough” to rank raids
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Feb 10, 2022 19:23
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Tanking in dungeons isn’t really comparable to tanking in raids, the only thing that I feel like they share is that you have a cd rotation that probably won’t change that much in a run
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Feb 10, 2022 19:24
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Maybe it's just me playing SCH too much, but it's not even a huge loss in DPS to heal the tank before they reach critical HP, just toss an oGCD heal their way and keep spamming your DPS tools.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:28
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Zokari posted:Jesus, I'm not really that mad. So many healers trying to min/max some very easy dungeons ITT It's more fun to dps and use big heal ogcds on a tank then just trying to keep them topped off constantly. It's not minmaxing it's just doing the more enjoyable thing.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:35
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:It's more fun to dps and use big heal ogcds on a tank then just trying to keep them topped off constantly. It's not minmaxing it's just doing the more enjoyable thing. There's a middle ground between topping off the tank and letting them drop to 5% HP before healing.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:36
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King of Solomon posted:There's a middle ground between topping off the tank and letting them drop to 5% HP before healing. Is there?
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Feb 10, 2022 19:37
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Dryzen posted:Is there? Yes, there is.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:37
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you gonna explain it…? do you know how discussions work??
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Feb 10, 2022 19:38
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Dryzen posted:Is there?
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Feb 10, 2022 19:38
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King of Solomon posted:There's a middle ground between topping off the tank and letting them drop to 5% HP before healing. If they didn't die there literally isnt
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Feb 10, 2022 19:39
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When I'm healing (which is most the time), the actual HP of the tank is less important than the rate that it's falling. A tank at 25% HP that took nearly the entire pull to get there is in a much safer position than the tank whose HP seems to be in perpetual freefall, despite being higher at the moment.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:39
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Dryzen posted:you gonna explain it…? do you know how discussions work?? You can use one of your many oGCDs to heal them when they get a bit under half, or if you're trying to max out your skills, when they hit 25%.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:40
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look my tank paid good money for the bottom 5% of their hp bar and I'm not gonna let it go to waste 
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Feb 10, 2022 19:41
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If you didn’t die where is the middle ground here that changes anything about the run? If your own reaction to getting low on health caused something to go wrong that’s your own fault, not the healers. Why is the immediate assumption that getting low on HP is immediately the healer’s fault and not anywhere on the tank too for their use of CDs? Regardless, so many people are on some kind of auto pilot when they’re doing dungeons hundreds of times a patch, so if your HP drops lower than normal and they had to press an extra healing button and you didn’t die then I don’t understand why that’s a big deal
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Feb 10, 2022 19:41
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You either live through the pull and kill it or you don't. The only hp that matters is the absolute last one.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:41
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:You either live through the pull and kill it or you don't. The only hp that matters is the absolute last one.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:42
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Dryzen posted:If you didn’t die where is the middle ground here that changes anything about the run? If your own reaction to getting low on health caused something to go wrong that’s your own fault, not the healers. Why is the immediate assumption that getting low on HP is immediately the healer’s fault and not anywhere on the tank too for their use of CDs? Regardless, so many people are on some kind of auto pilot when they’re doing dungeons hundreds of times a patch, so if your HP drops lower than normal and they had to press an extra healing button and you didn’t die then I don’t understand why that’s a big deal Because it's zero effort and a near nonexistent DPS loss to keep the tank out of critical HP zones? There's no benefit to playing chicken with the tank's HP bar.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:43
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There's also no benefit to not doing it so idk why you care so much
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Feb 10, 2022 19:43
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PLEASE read the posts instead of getting immediately incredulous people have given reasons why this could be happening
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Feb 10, 2022 19:44
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Oxyclean posted:Sounds like an invitation for tanks and dps not to use mitigation so long as a healer can keep them alive. I mean most bad pubbies already do that so??? I don't get your point. I mean the tanks that do use them just means you can help with dps more. I dunno what's so shocking about this lol.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:44
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King of Solomon posted:Because it's zero effort and a near nonexistent DPS loss to keep the tank out of critical HP zones? There's no benefit to playing chicken with the tank's HP bar. More dps uptime us a benefit. Especially if you've got other poo poo to ogcd weave like say ast does.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:45
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If the response to disagreeing about this is just “it’s bad hmph” then I’ll just go ahead and say what I think the actual issue is here, which is apparently letting your tank get low on HP hurts their feelings and that’s just not OK.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:46
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Oxyclean posted:Sounds like an invitation for tanks and dps not to use mitigation so long as a healer can keep them alive. disagree. However, I do invite tanks and dps to not use mitigation while holy stun is happening, because stun is already a 100% mitigation. Also when benediction is available, or both essential dignities are available, because getting these cooldowns rolling asap is cool and good and making it happen is fun. Ruzihm fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 19:48
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Dryzen posted:Is there? Yes? If your tank is undergeared or just not great it is the difference between a wipe and not. And yes if the party wipes because you were not healing that is on you and means you are being a bad healer. These discussions always assume optimal play and not every player is optimal.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:49
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ImpAtom posted:Yes? If your tank is undergeared or just not great it is the difference between a wipe and not. I think you misunderstand, the situation here isn’t that a group is wiping because the healer isn’t pressing their buttons, it’s that the tank HP gets low before the healer presses their buttons. The leap of logic people are making here is that the tank HP surely must be getting low because the healer is never pressing their buttons.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:51
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Dryzen posted:PLEASE read the posts instead of getting immediately incredulous people have given reasons why this could be happening A dude was like "it's stressful when healers are letting me get to critical hp" and everyone is like "pfft, what, do you expect people to keep you constantly topped off! do you want HONEST healers??" To which a few of us are pointing out that there's not a lot of situations where healers should need to let a tank get to critical HP because you have oGCDs and cooldowns that you can use without overhealing before that point. We get there's a few heals that are optimal at low HP, but that's not the majority of situations. ZenMasterBullshit posted:I mean most bad pubbies already do that so??? I don't get your point.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:51
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If anyone wants to get mad about the healer that only ever presses benediction and outside of that just lets the tank deal with their own HP pool go for it, but people are very clearly getting mad at the idea of a healer not pressing their buttons immediately every single chance they get, which isn’t a crime if they are actually healing the tank IMO.Oxyclean posted:Fuckin' same back! I think you misunderstand some of the reasons people have given for why the tank HP could be getting low. I’m personally not saying that every healer is playing perfectly ideal by doing this, I’m saying that there’s more factors to just the healer not pressing their buttons optimally that can make the tank HP go so low in these situations. Especially in the expert dungeons we have right now, bad DPS is probably what makes tank HP drop so low if nobody is dying, cause I don’t see how that means the healer or tank aren’t trying to stay alive. Dryzen fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 19:52
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if i'm tanking as a warrior i play like i don't have a healer
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Feb 10, 2022 19:54
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Ziddar posted:When I'm healing (which is most the time), the actual HP of the tank is less important than the rate that it's falling. A tank at 25% HP that took nearly the entire pull to get there is in a much safer position than the tank whose HP seems to be in perpetual freefall, despite being higher at the moment. now i want a bar for the tank's health-derivative over the last x seconds lol
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Feb 10, 2022 19:56
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Kerrzhe posted:if i'm tanking as a warrior i play like i don't have a healer The annoying thing about this is that the optimal time to press bloodletting is when you're about a gcd from dying, but healers never let you get to that point Warrior would be easier to play optimally if more healers played health bar chicken
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Feb 10, 2022 19:56
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if you never let your war, gnb, or drk go low then you're preventing your tank from utilizing one of their most powerful cds, and that's not very poggers
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Feb 10, 2022 19:56
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Ciaphas posted:now i want a bar for the tank's health-derivative over the last x seconds lol I would not mind this
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Feb 10, 2022 19:57
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Dryzen posted:If anyone wants to get mad about the healer that only ever presses benediction and outside of that just lets the tank deal with their own HP pool go for it, but people are very clearly getting mad at the idea of a healer not pressing their buttons immediately every single chance they get, which isn’t a crime if they are actually healing the tank IMO. OK but what if I invent a scenario where I'm right anyway
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Feb 10, 2022 19:57
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we're already discussing like three different hypothetical scenarios anyway, why not a 4th
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Feb 10, 2022 19:59
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This is the most exhausting game of "making up a guy and getting mad at him"
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Feb 10, 2022 19:59
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Ciaphas posted:now i want a bar for the tank's health-derivative over the last x seconds lol I would be keenly interested in seeing one of these from a nightmare run. One of those runs where as a healer you don't have time to cast a dps skill because not spending every GCD healing the tank will bottom out their health bar.
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Feb 10, 2022 20:03
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