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XB2 had a broken pity system which added to its issues. Basically the way the game works is that when you start a new file, you're assigned one of five 'groups.' The rates of all the blades are different in each group, so for instance one group might have Finch at 2% and the other might have her at 15%. The game guarantees you five rare blades, with what blades they are determined by your file. If you don't roll a rare blade for a few dozen rolls, you get one of your file's guaranteed rare blades, or 'pity blades.' The issue is that if you already have the rare blade you'd get by pity, you don't get anything, and if you already have all five, the pity system goes away. To counteract this, the game has each group's pity blades set to really low drop rates. So let's take, say, Group A. Hypothetically mind, this isn't actual group A drop rates or pity. The pity blades are, iunno, Finch, Newt, Ursula, Sheba, Dagas. So they all have really low pull rates, so you don't pull them before you hit pity. Except the game's drop rates and pity blades are mixed up. Group A actually has the drop rates of group B, but the pity blades of Group A. So Finch, Newt, Ursula, Sheba, and Dagas don't have reduced drop rates, so you're likely to pull them before you get them off pity. And meanwhile, there's five completely random blades with extremely low drop rates for no reason, because they're group B's pity blades, but you aren't getting them off pity. So instead of five guaranteed blades and then some blades with high drop rates, you just have five blades with high drop rates that you'll also get off pity if you're unlucky. This drastically reduces the chances of filling out the rare blade roster in any given file, as well as lengthens the gaps between getting rare blades. This was never patched.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:09
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CharlestheHammer posted:I hope there is more Gotcha so bad Are you trying to make me cry? Because its working.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:11
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Weird question, is the gatcha thing something that rares make the game easier/better, or does it only matter for the 1% end game super bosses grind?
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Feb 10, 2022 19:29
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The fundamental idea of one of these sprawling spreadsheet character build games giving you a random assortment of stuff to make those builds from rather than giving everyone the same things so there winds up being a very small number of best answers that you can walk into the game already knowing isn't a bad one. There are just a lot of decisions in XB2 that interact badly with its specific implementation.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:33
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Evil Fluffy posted:Orbs only mattered for high HP enemies that you couldn't just obliterate with driver combos. I remember combat was paced such that for random trash fights, I'd kill them around the time I started getting orb combos ready, so the game was just constantly blueballing me for the big fancy high-damage combos (or, at best, I'd get them to finish off the last 5-10% of the mob's HP) It was kind of annoying, but I might have just been doing something wrong pentyne posted:Weird question, is the gatcha thing something that rares make the game easier/better, or does it only matter for the 1% end game super bosses grind? Hypergrinders wanted common blades with very specific (but randomly generated) skill sets More casual players wanted rare blades because they had cool unique designs and sidequests and stuff
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Feb 10, 2022 19:34
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pentyne posted:Weird question, is the gatcha thing something that rares make the game easier/better, or does it only matter for the 1% end game super bosses grind?
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Feb 10, 2022 19:36
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Yeah I finished XB2 without KOS-MOS and a handful of other Rares (because I gave up in disgust) and you can definitely finish the game... it just felt, I dunno, anticlimactic? A lot of other players were extolling the virtues of their rare blades and all the cool poo poo they were doing with their flashy shiny stuff.... while you're scrambling through the dirt with your commons. I'm greatly exaggerating of course, but I definitely feel disappointed with my XB2 experience, feeling like I was forced to miss a lot of the fun stuff other got.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:43
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the idea is clearly for everyone to have their own rare blades and own unique experiences but the reality is often that people just feel like they got screwed by rng. rather than 'wow i got dagas' its getting mad when other people have kosmos.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:58
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it was really fun comparing strategies and approaches in through the game with friends because we got wildly different blades. They don't have to specifically do a gacha styled thing (Xenoblade X had a lot of early-to-midgame strategy differentiation due to class/characters) for that, but the resulting social experience was fun.
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Feb 10, 2022 20:00
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Endorph posted:You can easily beat the game with just common blades. There are a lot of common blade possibilities that are better than most of the rare blades. However, common blades are really dull and boring. This is real problem tbh. They really needed to spruce up the common blade, like make them look like off brand versions of the rare blades or something.
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Feb 10, 2022 20:01
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Electric Phantasm posted:This is real problem tbh. They really needed to spruce up the common blade, like make them look like off brand versions of the rare blades or something.
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Feb 10, 2022 20:09
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Introducing gacha mechanics into a regular game is just one of the worst ideas anyone has ever had, even if the 'mercy' mechanics were properly implemented it's still a system where the player's character choice is mediated by the game cutting you a break if you get too many bad rolls on its fake gambling, and created pointless timesinks and clerical work where you regularly have to unbox loads more cores, discard your the trash commons and set all the busywork tasks they invented to give common blades any purpose at all. To think that they could have just made them sidequests...
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Feb 10, 2022 20:12
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Endorph posted:Just emulate an actual gacha game where even the most common characters are unique. Rather than just 'generic' and 'actual character,' you just have a rarity from 1 to 5 stars and unique characters at every rarity. A lot of the most popular and fun to use characters in, say, Fate/Grand Order, are one stars or two stars that you get five billion copies of. And they're actual characters with personalities and distinct designs, and unique movesets. This would have been something at least, but really wouldn't you need at least like four times as many unique Blades then, to keep it a mechanic you're engaging with the whole game?
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Feb 10, 2022 20:13
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alternatively why not just give the player items at set points that guarantee them a rare blade and have which are blade it is be random, but no dupes/empty rolls and no common blades. have the items come at certain points in the story and as rewards for involved sidequests. have enough that you can get every rare blade if you do most of the sidequests. done.
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Feb 10, 2022 20:16
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Endorph posted:the idea is clearly for everyone to have their own rare blades and own unique experiences but the reality is often that people just feel like they got screwed by rng. rather than 'wow i got dagas' its getting mad when other people have kosmos. Yeah. The fact it's technically possible to get whatever Blade you're jealous of was probably the biggest misstep, because it's a really miserable experience hunting for a specific blade, and that sours everything about it iirc, rare blades also had their own unique storylines and side quests, so it genuinely felt like you were "missing" content. It'd be different if it was just a different skin
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Feb 10, 2022 20:20
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Endorph posted:alternatively why not just give the player items at set points that guarantee them a rare blade and have which are blade it is be random, but no dupes/empty rolls and no common blades. have the items come at certain points in the story and as rewards for involved sidequests. have enough that you can get every rare blade if you do most of the sidequests. done. That seems perfectly reasonable and would have made the game so much less of a pain I've got some faith that they don't completely drop the ball again for 3 at least, the Torna DLC pared back or replaced nearly all the weird design issues from 2's base game so it seems like there's some awareness that Mistakes Were Made
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Feb 10, 2022 20:28
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I mean all joking aside this game seems to go back to a set party with set weapons so a gotcha doesn’t really make sense
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Feb 10, 2022 20:30
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WarpDogs posted:iirc, rare blades also had their own unique storylines and side quests, so it genuinely felt like you were "missing" content. It'd be different if it was just a different skin
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Feb 10, 2022 20:30
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There was a xc2 postmortem interview on usgamer back in the day where the director explained the logic of the weird gacha. It was an attempt to get people to use the switch's share button to record and tweet out the summoning sequence when they got a rare blade (or at least that was his publicly stated reason). Hopefully Xenoblade is big enough now they don't need to create that kind of gimmick again.
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Feb 10, 2022 20:48
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I mean I can’t see a reason to lie the goth ha wasn’t really monetized. You could buy a DLC with packs but that DOC came with a lot of things
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Feb 10, 2022 20:54
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Endorph posted:Just emulate an actual gacha game where even the most common characters are unique. Rather than just 'generic' and 'actual character,' you just have a rarity from 1 to 5 stars and unique characters at every rarity. A lot of the most popular and fun to use characters in, say, Fate/Grand Order, are one stars or two stars that you get five billion copies of. And they're actual characters with personalities and distinct designs, and unique movesets. This what I was thinking at first but they seem adverse to dupes for whatever reason so here's a bunch of generic looking robot people instead so you can keep engaging with this system. I feel like I would at least get a chuckle out of Great Value Finch. Endorph posted:alternatively why not just give the player items at set points that guarantee them a rare blade and have which are blade it is be random, but no dupes/empty rolls and no common blades. have the items come at certain points in the story and as rewards for involved sidequests. have enough that you can get every rare blade if you do most of the sidequests. done. This would be the best solution however. I get the idea behind what they wanted to do and have no problem with the gacha especially one doesn't cost real money, but what it really comes down to is they really half assed the implementation for XB2.
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Feb 10, 2022 20:58
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It seems like the "fix" for the pity system would be fairly straightforward, too. It seems like the better way to do it would be for every rare blade to be in the pity list, and the difference between files is the order that the blades appear in that list. That way you don't run out of "pity" blades until you have all the rare blades, however long that takes, but different files will still have a different experiences because the order of the list is different, or maybe it's just weighted so certain rare blades are more likely to be your pity blade, but once you have all of those then you start getting the others in random order.
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Feb 10, 2022 21:16
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The gacha system is largely fine for normal play and only really gets bad if you want to 100% the game (don't 100% the game) or are really attached to a certain blade. You can't really get screwed because it's perfectly viable to complete the main game and even a fair bit of post game stuff with just the story blades. I do agree that common blades probably shouldn't exist because they are boring, even if mechanically they can be better than a lot of the rare blades.
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Feb 10, 2022 21:49
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Just let me buy the rare blades with, I dunno, Black Liver Beans 
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Feb 10, 2022 22:01
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I kinda thought the game was going to play a trick based on how the treatment of blades was a big part of the plot. Guilt trip you for leaving all those generic dog blades to gather dust for that cool Shulk blade or something.
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Feb 10, 2022 22:21
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Really hope that blades don't return. It was pain to manage them. Annoying to swap them out just so I could use a jump pad.
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Feb 10, 2022 22:40
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Get hype for the jam that will be You Will Recollect Our Names
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Feb 10, 2022 22:46
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It's gonna be gatcha mechs this time around.
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Feb 10, 2022 22:47
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Endorph posted:They did have unique side quests but most of them weren't really that story heavy, but of course it's easy to say that, it still doesnt change the badfeel of missing out on content. And thankfully most of the rare blades with sidequests were ones you got from quests and not random.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:03
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Palmtree Panic posted:Really hope that blades don't return. It was pain to manage them. Yeah I hated blade management more than anything.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:08
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xeno games always have some weirdass UI decisions and i hope they have someone to make menus more user-friendly this go round. like, an inventory system you can easily sort through and peruse would be pretty nice
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Feb 10, 2022 23:25
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WrightOfWay posted:The gacha system is largely fine for normal play and only really gets bad if you want to 100% the game (don't 100% the game) or are really attached to a certain blade. You can't really get screwed because it's perfectly viable to complete the main game and even a fair bit of post game stuff with just the story blades. I do agree that common blades probably shouldn't exist because they are boring, even if mechanically they can be better than a lot of the rare blades. i liked the gacha for normal play specifically because it was fun getting cool (if bad) blades early on. Like, I think Perun's character design is cool, but I would've never used her had she not been one of the first blades I came across. Or, alternatively, getting Zenobia early on in another playthrough meant I was constantly searching out and challenging the assorted minibosses as early as possible, instead of avoiding them.
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Feb 11, 2022 00:21
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I'm just so happy the main character has a design that's not stupid and repellent like Rex's bathing suit chaps look. Also the Monado looks hella cool all pointy like that
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Feb 11, 2022 01:28
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I mean they get around that by his design being pretty boring
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Feb 11, 2022 01:32
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The new Monado is interesting because it seems to be combining bits of the original and Pyra's sword.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:37
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Origami guy is cool though and seeing how his power translates to what the switch can do shall be something
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Feb 11, 2022 01:47
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im glad this game is looking more xb1-ish aesthetically then xb2-ish. xb1 was anime but 2 was Anime
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Feb 11, 2022 01:55
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also good lord no more gacha in a single player game unless you can easily game it jesus christ
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Feb 11, 2022 01:57
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that huge metal face mech looks sick as hell
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Feb 11, 2022 02:00
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Blaziken386 posted:i liked the gacha for normal play specifically because it was fun getting cool (if bad) blades early on. Like, I think Perun's character design is cool, but I would've never used her had she not been one of the first blades I came across. According to the devs this kind of experience was the intent behind the system and the different pity rosters. They wanted you to have a slightly different feel about your party and their capabilities then the next person playing. It's got problems but kinda works! Of course, everybody wants to catch em all, and it doesn't become massively easier past a certain point like you'd expect. Like, they didn't expect grinding out 100% to be a thing people did in one playthrough. E: and yeah there were some bugs with the implementation spotted by data mining and tests
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Feb 11, 2022 02:40
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