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Brown Moses posted:Let's see how future Conservative Prime Minister candidate Liz Truss is doing negotiating with the Russians What an insane meeting. One is the stooge of a power hungry madman, trying in every possible way to humiliate and discredit Britain internationally. And the other is Russia's foreign minister.
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Feb 10, 2022 15:36
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Brown Moses posted:Let's see how future Conservative Prime Minister candidate Liz Truss is doing negotiating with the Russians I was already baffled reading about this earlier in the day, but the backroom bit is absolutely unreal. Completely out of this world. Fingers crossed she gets to lead a China-U.K. summit, I want to hear Chen Weihua’s take on Shenzhen being protected by the “one country, two systems” principle.
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Feb 10, 2022 15:54
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Nenonen posted:What an insane meeting. One is the stooge of a power hungry madman, trying in every possible way to humiliate and discredit Britain internationally. And the other is Russia's foreign minister. 
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Feb 10, 2022 16:07
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I suspect this is a bit of mischievous briefing. The point behind Lavrov's question was obviously 'do you accept we have an absolute right to move troops to Rostov and Voronezh?' to which the answers are either "yes, but if you want that answer then you have to accept that Ukraine can host whatever forces it wants in its territory" or "no, under the security framework that you are asking for you do not have carte blance to mobilise an invasion force without other nations having a right to take an interest".
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Feb 10, 2022 16:27
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Nenonen posted:What an insane meeting. One is the stooge of a power hungry madman, trying in every possible way to humiliate and discredit Britain internationally. And the other is Russia's foreign minister. Can someone expand upon this? I'm not following.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:37
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It’s more than just a bit mischievous, but, perhaps, Sovereign Britain should send competent envoys for a hostile showdown with one of the most experienced diplomats on the planet, on his home turf no less. Compare Truss’s performance to Baerbock’s. Crosby B. Alfred posted:Can someone expand upon this? I'm not following. They’re taking a piss at Liz Truss, who has a spotty job performance record, and positions herself as a potential replacement to Boris Johnson. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 16:37
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Alchenar posted:I suspect this is a bit of mischievous briefing. The point behind Lavrov's question was obviously 'do you accept we have an absolute right to move troops to Rostov and Voronezh?' to which the answers are either "yes, but if you want that answer then you have to accept that Ukraine can host whatever forces it wants in its territory" or "no, under the security framework that you are asking for you do not have carte blance to mobilise an invasion force without other nations having a right to take an interest". You're reading too much into it. He's trolling her by taking advantage of the fact she doesn't know the difference between Donetsk/Luhansk and Rostov/Voronezh. It gives him a neat sound bite for domestic consumption as a perk.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:55
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Morrow posted:You're reading too much into it. He's trolling her by taking advantage of the fact she doesn't know the difference between Donetsk/Luhansk and Rostov/Voronezh. It gives him a neat sound bite for domestic consumption as a perk. Oh he's absolutely trolling her, but that would have been the follow up question.
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Feb 10, 2022 16:55
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Alchenar posted:I suspect this is a bit of mischievous briefing. The point behind Lavrov's question was obviously 'do you accept we have an absolute right to move troops to Rostov and Voronezh?' to which the answers are either "yes, but if you want that answer then you have to accept that Ukraine can host whatever forces it wants in its territory" or "no, under the security framework that you are asking for you do not have carte blance to mobilise an invasion force without other nations having a right to take an interest". No, I'm pretty sure she just hosed up
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Feb 10, 2022 17:45
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Sekenr posted:No, I'm pretty sure she just hosed up
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Feb 10, 2022 18:16
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah. Everything I've heard and seen of her makes her stand out as exceptionally stupid/uninformed, even among her peer group of idiot politicians. Something that the Russians could tell from regular media sources alone, but have probably also confirmed through their dealings with her friends and colleagues. Preparing for her to not immediately fall into your trap is like one step removed from preparing for aliens to show up and guarantee Ukraine's independence. I'm afraid she is monumentally stupid and we can only be thankful if her actions haven't already worsened the situation. We're not sending our best, you could say.
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Feb 10, 2022 19:22
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Zhirik seems to be done for 
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Feb 10, 2022 21:10
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This is another really good thread on the root of this crisis: https://twitter.com/samagreene/status/1491837537949736975
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Feb 10, 2022 21:24
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Meanwhile Jeremy "Kompromat" Corbyn is trying to blame NATO for everything. He's even got Starmer out there writing OP eds about his dumb rear end. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/10/labour-nato-british-left-ukraine-keir-starmer
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Feb 10, 2022 21:34
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Giggle Goose posted:Meanwhile Jeremy "Kompromat" Corbyn is trying to blame NATO for everything. He's even got Starmer out there writing OP eds about his dumb rear end. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/10/labour-nato-british-left-ukraine-keir-starmer Be the change you want to see in the world, there's plenty of ideological brigades you can volunteer for in the Ukraine. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 10, 2022 21:45
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Giggle Goose posted:Meanwhile Jeremy "Kompromat" Corbyn is trying to blame NATO for everything. He's even got Starmer out there writing OP eds about his dumb rear end. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/10/labour-nato-british-left-ukraine-keir-starmer Even weirder to lay that epithet on him when the Tories are funded by Russian oligarchs.
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Feb 10, 2022 21:57
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What is the point of giving him that nickname? You can disagree with his position, but the man is entirely consistent in his politics - and not in the "just doing what the Kremlin tells him" sense.
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Feb 10, 2022 22:14
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I'm not too sure how helpful it is to bring UKpol opposition drama into this thread.
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Feb 10, 2022 22:19
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Alchenar posted:I'm not too sure how helpful it is to bring UKpol opposition drama into this thread. Its insanely helpful because it exposes the ideology of the individual who is pro-war from those who are anti-war
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Feb 10, 2022 22:22
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Terminal autist posted:Its insanely helpful because it exposes the ideology of the individual who is pro-war from those who are anti-war Notably Russia: Very pro war. In that way they are not much different from those Western imperialist dogs. Otherwise they wouldn't be stacking units on Ukraine's border like checkers or providing military and material support to insurrectionists.
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Feb 10, 2022 22:26
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Giggle Goose posted:Meanwhile Jeremy "Kompromat" Corbyn is trying to blame NATO for everything. He's even got Starmer out there writing OP eds about his dumb rear end. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/10/labour-nato-british-left-ukraine-keir-starmer I think you should stop reading UK media. Whenever it touches on a domestic subject the quality drops down to Pravda levels.
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Feb 10, 2022 22:37
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Morrow posted:I think you should stop reading UK media. Whenever it touches on a domestic subject the quality drops down to Pravda levels. The Guardian makes for an adequate read, with fewer land mines than in BBC on certain subjects. Just be mindful of Guardian’s opinion columns - I haven’t read the linked article specifically, but sometimes they get WSJ/NYT-tier wild.
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Feb 10, 2022 22:45
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Giggle Goose posted:Meanwhile Jeremy "Kompromat" Corbyn is trying to blame NATO for everything. He's even got Starmer out there writing OP eds about his dumb rear end. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/10/labour-nato-british-left-ukraine-keir-starmer I'm not British so maybe I'm missing some nuance here but Corbyn definitely doesn't seem to be toeing the Russian line https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1488225112675528708
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Feb 10, 2022 23:06
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Alchenar posted:I'm not too sure how helpful it is to bring UKpol opposition drama into this thread. Fair enough. I figured it was related closely enough to the Russia question but I will leave it alone. And the hyperbole admittedly didn't help. Rather more directly related, I'm seeing reports in numerous locations (including the perfidious Guardian) that Russia now has more than enough troops on the Ukrainian border to conduct an invasion. What with the "drills?" starting up, looks like its going to be soon if its going to happen.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:23
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Does anyone know when the Russian drills in Belarus are scheduled to end? I think I read somewhere its supposed to end on the 20th but I'm not sure.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:35
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Charliegrs posted:Does anyone know when the Russian drills in Belarus are scheduled to end? I think I read somewhere its supposed to end on the 20th but I'm not sure. You’re remembering the correct date.
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Feb 10, 2022 23:37
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Giggle Goose posted:Fair enough. I figured it was related closely enough to the Russia question but I will leave it alone. And the hyperbole admittedly didn't help. cat botherer fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 23:55
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cat botherer posted:The Guardian is a lovely rag that toes the Labour line, and its no suprise you have your bizarre ideas on the notorious antisemite Jeremy Corbyn if you are reading them uncritically. Well I certainly wasn't defending the man in any way, but I no doubt thank you for sharing your thoughts. Concerning Lavrov and Truss' little tête-à-tête, it would be really wonderful to see a recording of their entire meeting. Financial Times blocked me after I read their article about it this morning but it cited Lavrov as saying something like that the conversation was akin to a mute person talking to a deaf person. Really painted a picture.
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Feb 11, 2022 00:04
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Alchenar posted:This is another really good thread on the root of this crisis: Yeah, I mean that's how this whole thing started. Over a sudden shady withdrawal from a deal with the EU.
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Feb 11, 2022 00:06
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Decent thread on potential timelines: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1491521222437445633?t=FKW9JYBcZmMLoisdGaFh4g&s=19
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Feb 11, 2022 00:08
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Giggle Goose posted:Meanwhile Jeremy "Kompromat" Corbyn is trying to blame NATO for everything. He's even got Starmer out there writing OP eds about his dumb rear end. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/10/labour-nato-british-left-ukraine-keir-starmer lol at the ideological positions this thread this forcing people Jeremy Corbyn, enemy of D&D
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Feb 11, 2022 00:56
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Regarde Aduck posted:lol at the ideological positions this thread this forcing people I forgot Giggle Goose spoke for all of D&D. Knock it off.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:00
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Regarde Aduck posted:lol at the ideological positions this thread this forcing people To be quite honest with you friend the only position that I hold with regards to the topic of this thread* is that Russian aggression against Ukraine is entirely the fault of Russia. I find that the suggestion that current events were caused by NATO to be unsound. I apologized for my hyperbole already, and here I shall do it again. Mea culpa comrade. *at the moment Giggle Goose fucked around with this message at 04:04 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 01:08
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Alchenar posted:This is another really good thread on the root of this crisis: This is more or less my take on the whole thing, Ukraine is an existential threat to the current power structure of Russia if it is able to move towards the EU. One thing that struck me when I visited Tallinn and Riga from Saint Petersburg was "oh, this is how it could look if there wasn't rampant corruption.*" I always wondered why it didn't put on more pressure in Russia considering the number of people who go across the border to shop, but my read on that is that it is much easier to otherize and compartmentalise that due to the greater cultural distance between the Baltics and Russia. "These guys have it better, but they're small countries, not slavs and they're the pet project of the EU, such is life." Ukraine however? If Ukraine had spent the last 8 years moving towards the EU, removing corruption and developing, things would be looking shaky as hell for Putin as Ukraine would be the threat of a good example and there could be no excuses for why things are getting better in Ukraine but staying the same or getting worse in Russia. In this vein one stat I remember reading here ages ago was that Romania, one of the poorest countries in Europe at one point had surpassed Ukraine's GDP, which considering their different starting points in 1991, is quite the achievement and can be basically be credited to the anti-corruption work done between now and then by the EU. *I know that things aren't perfect, but they are significantly better
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Feb 11, 2022 03:30
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Nearly nine hours of talks between Ukraine and Russia on Thursday failed to produce a breakthrough on signing a joint document, but both sides agreed to keep talking, the chief of staff to Ukraine's president said after the talks in Berlin. And breaking up the EU is tantamount to Russian interests long term. Putin runs this thing like the CIA and desires to crack the foundations of Europe. The EU is already potentially on a downward spiral. The EU is a monetary union without a fiscal union and that cannot be forever. There has to be a US Of EUROPE or it'll fail eventually. I'm sure Putin is aware of this as he is a KGB guy and understands government. So by his request to have the EU countries submit separate plans he can show these plans don't line up and keep sending propaganda that reflects this idea. For I believe that a breakup of the EU would allow a restoration to the pre-1938 hegemony of Europe. Which Russia was on trajectory to potentially dominate or be high on the list. However with all those pesky countries working together Russia is essentially closed out of a lot of the happenings of the continent. Ukraine is their time to shine on that stage if they can (I don't want this) ball up and be legends. I say this not because of my belief in Russia invading Ukraine but as a reference to the propaganda that such a victory would provide for Russia's. Now, the question is will they? That's ultimately what's loving me up every day. Half of me has this burning inkling that it may just happen in our lifetimes. As it feels like general warfare is so far away it we are once again hearing "won't happen again" and "financial markets won't let the war happen!!!!!" Etc. God we are good at recreating our history not through intention but flat surfaces thinking. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 05:33 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 05:08
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https://twitter.com/samagreene/status/1491847078103982082?s=20&t=24910nUPMLA1zTX1kqjMWA There are some unforeseen economics at play here and Russia after all is enormous petrostate. I don't know how well versed anyone here is on Russian Economics, this is just napkin math but they say lost a half of their revenue from O&G exports that'd be 16% reduction on their economy. https://twitter.com/samagreene/status/1491847068587073538?s=20&t=V1OtAOw0ogYzmRQ5b3mtsw What does this mean? Gucci Loafers fucked around with this message at 05:44 on Feb 11, 2022 |
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Feb 11, 2022 05:15
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Russia suddenly abandoned the blockage of the Sea of Azov.
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Feb 11, 2022 06:36
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Russia suddenly abandoned the blockage of the Sea of Azov.
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Feb 11, 2022 06:36
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:https://twitter.com/samagreene/status/1491847068587073538?s=20&t=V1OtAOw0ogYzmRQ5b3mtsw Personally I interpret that as compared to the EU the Russian economy is built up more on rents/income streams not based on productivity increases (for example oil and gas instead of efficient industry) and that it also has more powerful patronage networks that grants monopolies. So the EU economy reaps the benefits of capitalism as the rich get rich get richer while the Russian economy does not because competition by productivity works less well due to the strong patronage networks/corruption.
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Feb 11, 2022 06:53
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Regarde Aduck posted:lol at the ideological positions this thread this forcing people It shouldn't be surprising that people in Eastern Europe thread (a lot of whom actually live here) have a different opinion on beloved western leftist figures especially when those figures cheer for glorious anti-imperialistic occupation.
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Feb 11, 2022 08:59
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