|
Cleretic posted:If any of you want an update on the capital city of Venat Discourse, the official forums have reached 'we should destroy Venat's soul because the intrinsic character she will bring back with her on reincarnation is obviously a desire to blow up the planet'. The official forums, where the dumbest possible takes are born.
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 01:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 03:24 |
|
|
Cleretic posted:If any of you want an update on the capital city of Venat Discourse, the official forums have reached 'we should destroy Venat's soul because the intrinsic character she will bring back with her on reincarnation is obviously a desire to blow up the planet'. I have at times unironically longed for an ffxivplayers.txt thread to lurk so yes, please always provide official forum updates ImpAtom posted:Beyond that it has been mentioned above that there are plenty of times the game calls out "Go and get help" or "Call your friends" or "retreat and come back when you're prepared." That to me is a compelling reason to believe that when the game chooses not to present those things to us, they are not true. ARR goes out of its way to establish you are storming Praet with an elite strike force, and a lot of the trials establish that you're gonna go round up a few echo-having allies; the ShB-and-on dungeons and trials establish your canonical allies' presence consistently in the text, whether via swinging wide the gates or telling you to form a party of Scions, who all talk about how they're gonna go in the dungeon with you when you speak to them. the absence of either of those things in much of heavensward and stormblood reflects a decision not to include them, not a lapse in the writing. putting you alone for those fights highlights your movement from important team player to singularly powerful individual who, and this is maybe the WoL's most thematically important trait in the story, still knows the importance of connecting to and supporting others even if that support doesn't keep you from having to run at giant monster constantly. characters in those expansions regularly react to the idea of the WoL as a uniquely capable hero, either because they aspire to it (haurchefaunt, alphinaud, alisaie, lyse-ish) or because your use of that power to selflessly serve is contrasted against singular individuals who see their abilities as putting them above normal morality (thordan and zenos, of course, but also estinien and maaaaybe even ysayle if you squint a little bit). in the narrative, that's explicitly about you being the eikon slayer, which is reflected in how people react to you. if alisaie envied you as a captain and leader, the narrative would have her reading how to get friends and influence people, instead of just constantly looking to get more swole. if Zenos thought you were cool and sexy because you were good at rallying your allies, he'd make you fight him with a full party; instead, endwalker has him explicitly constantly seeking a one-on-one duel (on the moon so no one else can get involved, even). people regularly mistake your power as all residing in you because you take down primals single-handedly, when your power in fact resides in the love the WoL has for the people and things around them, which is mirrored both in Venat's monologue about loving etheirys before she does the dream mashup sundering and the all the azem stuff about grapes and what have you. the omega raid even explicitly brings up the idea that your power comes from having physical allies present, and then rejects it to reveal that what truly sets you apart is that you just feel so hard, which Cid directly connects a couple times to Alpha becoming stronger by bonding with your team emotionally. none of this undermines the ultimate message that you're stronger with allies, because the whole point is that your strength doesn't come from your allies literally fighting at your side, but in how they support and uplift you along the way. that's how alphinaud can grow from treating you as an attack dog to supporting you as a friend, because even though he still regularly puts you in harms way, he finally sees you as a person in yourself and not a piece in his plans. that's why the Scions can intervene in the final battle literally just by wishing for your safety hard enough, that's arenvald's whole arc: the value of our bonds to others is that having other people care about you, and caring about them in turn, can save you, and that doesn't require you to literally be at their side through every FFXIV believes that you cannot make it through life alone, but doesn't reject the idea that sometimes there are certain things only one person is properly positioned to do. it just doesn't go in for "the man in the arena" type stuff, and recognizes that even when you alone have the opportunity and ability to grab the dragon eye on your friends absolutely disgusting armor and rip it off him, you're actually still relying on your emotional bonds with others to carry you through it and give you the strength to make it happen. Valentin fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Feb 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 02:36
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:If any of you want an update on the capital city of Venat Discourse, the official forums have reached 'we should destroy Venat's soul because the intrinsic character she will bring back with her on reincarnation is obviously a desire to blow up the planet'. You are made of sterner stuff than I. Going on the WoW official forums during its first years permanently scared me off of going to an official forum for anything.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 02:46
|
|
|
Valentin posted:ARR goes out of its way to establish you are storming Praet with an elite strike force
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 02:57
|
|
|
not just how the cutscenes are shot, though; iirc it's explicitly mentioned multiple times in dialogue that your role is to head an elite squad of your adventuring peers to strike at CM/Praet, and as others have mentioned the game had said at least a couple times that you alone fought Ultima Weapon, so weirdly it actually makes more sense that you separate from your allies somewhere between the start and end of praetorium. edit re below: sadly what I wrote up there probably still can't be reconciled with your allies not being visible at all in the CM cutscenes, so the search for a grand unified theorem continues. Valentin fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Feb 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 03:06
|
|
|
Also, funnily enough, the cutscenes do wide pans for CM but it's only ever you and Cid.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 03:08
|
|
|
Unlucky7 posted:You are made of sterner stuff than I. Going on the WoW official forums during its first years permanently scared me off of going to an official forum for anything. The lore subforum is very good at facts, very bad at actual reading. You need a super esoteric lore detail about Meracydia, someone has memorized it and can point you to the exact page in the Encyclopedia Eorzea that describes it. But you give them a story that contains things like allegory, metaphor or emotional conflict, they fall over themselves to dismiss it. Venat is a perfect trainwreck of those two elements. The tone of every single scene around the Sundering is abundantly clear about the reasons she did things, the failings of the Ancients and the emotional turmoil she goes through. ...but if you decide to throw all of that away and just focus on what was literally said and done, then Venat is instead a liar who was hiding crucial information, who blew up a perfect world that was just trying to fix itself and feels no remorse or regret about doing so. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Feb 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 03:46
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:The lore subforum is very good at facts, very bad at actual reading. You need a super esoteric lore detail about Meracydia, someone has memorized it and can point you to the exact page in the Encyclopedia Eorzea that describes it. But you give them a story that contains things like allegory, metaphor or emotional conflict, they fall over themselves to dismiss it. I have to admit that I tend to need a little help with reading myself; See others thoughts on things tend to help me solidify my own position, and the main thread and this one is great for that, in general.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 04:24
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:If any of you want an update on the capital city of Venat Discourse, the official forums have reached 'we should destroy Venat's soul because the intrinsic character she will bring back with her on reincarnation is obviously a desire to blow up the planet'. While a lot of people there are pretty ridiculous, the official forums aren't even close to the nadir of Venat/Ancients conversation. You should try the MMO-Champion forums if you wanna go on a real adventure.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 05:16
|
|
|
PoorWeather posted:While a lot of people there are pretty ridiculous, the official forums aren't even close to the nadir of Venat/Ancients conversation. You should try the MMO-Champion forums if you wanna go on a real adventure. Now that's a forum I haven't thought about in a while. Go on, share with the class. How bad does it get?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 05:19
|
|
|
Ibblebibble posted:Now that's a forum I haven't thought about in a while. That Monarchist poster Moofia is from there.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 05:36
|
|
|
Ibblebibble posted:Now that's a forum I haven't thought about in a while. I can't remember if it breaks the rules on this site to directly quote things from other places, but there are at least several pages of people comparing Venat and the Ancients respectively to the Nazis. At one point, someone calls the Ancients 'the Hitler race', followed immediately by someone countering that by comparing the Sundering to the Holocaust in broken English. There's also a page of people just directly screaming at each other about how they're stupid, can't read, and ought to have been banned from the website ages ago. And both sides call the other 'simps' at least once. It's kind of refreshing, honestly. It's a very early 2000s-feeling kind of online toxicity.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 06:01
|
|
|
We still have multiple threads on these forums that exist solely for quoting dumb posts from other websites (wowplayers.txt, freep thread, r/relationships thread) so go hog wild.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 06:38
|
|
|
And of course, the classic ff14forums.txt Twitter account is great to read through. Granted, the forum's biggest veins of stupid haven't been story focused in some time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 07:01
|
|
|
SirSamVimes posted:We still have multiple threads on these forums that exist solely for quoting dumb posts from other websites (wowplayers.txt, freep thread, r/relationships thread) so go hog wild. I don't use SA much, so I wasn't sure if the overall cultural shift the site has gone through might've led to the rules changing, too. Well, nevertheless: quote:When you got no clue of Hitler, don't talk about him. The Nazis got nothing in common with the ancients. They got almost everything in common with Venat, though, the whole ideology. Kill the subhumans to breed the uberhumans and that without any real reason. The whole subhuman, uberhuman part was just as made up as Venat's bullshit story about the ancients can't beat Meteoin, but her uberhuman race she cuts out of their flesh will be. If the Nazis would have won, they would have told the exact same story as FF14: that their glorious plan succeeded and that they have saved the planet and humankind with their Holocaust and mass slaughter quote:If anything is inconsistent here, it is the notion that Hydaelyn/Zodiark are primals brought up by Shadowbringers. I realize people absolutely jizzed their pants over Shadowbringers, but that was one thing that never sat completely right about Shadowbringers, was that big lore reveal that Hydaelyn and Zodiark were primals. And it was a complete and utter surprise to pretty much everyone because Hydaelyn and Zodiark do not act like primals in the slightest, at least not primals as they are presented up to that point. They are distinctly different. If anything, I'd say that's the major flaw here. But again, I realize people think Shadowbringers is infallible, and it is Endwalker that's the real sinner here. quote:Your entire presence since you've made this alternate account has been to pathetically whine and scream about FF14 as if everybody can't see exactly who and what you are. You don't even have the balls to do so on your actual account because you know this pathetic websites' moderation would actually have an excuse to infract your mindless bitching if you actually posted on your real one. etc
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 07:02
|
|
|
Basically, it says something that the FFXIV subreddit is probably on average the most intelligent of the 'major' game discussion forums story-wise. I think because the lack of a specific lore subcommunity means there's no real value in or audience for being performatively fancy/controversial, so they don't read so far into the story that they kill it. There still are very stupid people asking lore questions in the FFXIV subreddit, but it's less of a critical over-reading 'I have decided that Venat was responsible for the Armenian genocide', and more of a critical under-reading 'I thought the WoL was a dragon because I was very drunk when doing the Dragoon questline'. ...granted, I think all open lore discussion of FFXIV was kinda poisoned by Emet-Selch's Wild Ride. 'The villain had a point (and is a hot sadboy)' was loving catnip for edgy nerds, and we know there were a lot of edgy nerds around thanks to Dark Knight. And while on Reddit that just manifested as 'let's dote all over the guy, praise his story at every level we can, and hopefully-accidentally justify genocide', elsewhere that hit some whiplash when suddenly they got Venat's side of the story and had to go to extreme lengths to declare her to be objectively evil. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 07:49 on Feb 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 07:47
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:...granted, I think all open lore discussion of FFXIV was kinda poisoned by Emet-Selch's Wild Ride. 'The villain had a point (and is a hot sadboy)' was loving catnip Did he kill your dog too?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 08:12
|
|
|
ZenMasterBullshit posted:Did he kill your dog too? No, actually my dog is more aesthetically dense because of all the other dogs Emet Selch killed
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 09:00
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:Basically, it says something that the FFXIV subreddit is probably on average the most intelligent of the 'major' game discussion forums story-wise. I think because the lack of a specific lore subcommunity means there's no real value in or audience for being performatively fancy/controversial, so they don't read so far into the story that they kill it. I think the main subreddit probably gives that impression just because it's so busy that nothing controversial can get enough upvotes to survive. Back a few weeks ago, there were EW story hot-take threads of varying quality almost every day, but they just languished unnoticed on page 3 for a few hours before dropping into oblivion. Meanwhile, on r/ffxivdiscussion, there was a 200 page thread this week that was 50% people arguing over if non-vegans were morally equivalent to the Ancients. Without restarting any actual discourse here, I think most of the negative responses to EW's story boil down to it trying to tackle a pretty personal and complex topic in a way that is inevitably sorta reductive (because, well, any conversation about the human condition that doesn't tear itself to pieces with its own neurosis will be reductive), and being not super tightly written when it comes to the actual details. What it it tries to convey with its general thematic thrust is pretty unambiguously positive, but if that doesn't land right for whatever reason and you go picking over the minutia of the story to try and understand why you feel that way, it sort of falls apart the more you do it, and you only end up ruining it for yourself even more. Especially if you start comparing it to the strict facts you're given in Shadowbringers. It's a common feedback loop whenever you get a kinda polarized fandom. It's like if two people are served a beautiful dessert, but one of them tastes almonds in it, which they're allergic to. To try and pick the almond chunks out, they tear the thing to pieces with their knife and fork, noticing every flaw in how its been prepared along the way, until its an unrecognizable sludge. At the end, they're worn out and irritated, and have a much less appealing dessert that probably still kinda tastes like almonds. Meanwhile, the person at the other side of the table who isn't allergic can only respond with, "dude, why are you loving up this beautiful dessert?", leading to endless arguing about its inherent quality. So I don't think most people are trying to be controversial for its own sake, but have just arrived at complicatedly weird takes while trying to reconcile their initial discomfort with the story. The adult solution is just to realize that the dish the restaurant is serving right now isn't for you and go somewhere else for the night, but unfortunately all my friends are in this restaurant and talking about how much they love this cake and what's more all the other ones are even worse so have I told you guys how objectively loving disgusting almonds are thetoughestbean posted:No, actually my dog is more aesthetically dense because of all the other dogs Emet Selch killed Those dogs were only killed physically. Metaphysically, they live on through your dog. Savor each of their lives. PoorWeather fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Feb 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 09:21
|
|
|
Speaking of shards, I wonder if the other Hermes souls suffer from depression and bouts with nihilism due to his Kairos shenanigans.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 09:38
|
|
|
if you want ffxiv hot takes on reddit you gotta go to ffxivdiscussion, altho honestly that's more just whiney babies whining about how there's not enough content for them to do 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 10:07
|
|
|
PoorWeather posted:I don't use SA much, so I wasn't sure if the overall cultural shift the site has gone through might've led to the rules changing, too. Well, nevertheless: I love injecting terrible takes directly into my veins so other posters mining for them (or sometimes creating them) is always appreciated.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 10:20
|
|
|
That nazi reading of Venat is one of the most wild takes I've ever seen about this game
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 12:20
|
|
|
I'd try to read it as a palette cleanser from prior topics but my eyes just slide right off it when I do
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 12:26
|
|
|
thetoughestbean posted:No, actually my dog is more aesthetically dense because of all the other dogs Emet Selch killed so emet-selch is a cop? well he’s dead now so I guess that’d make him a good cop.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 14:33
|
|
|
kitten emergency posted:so emet-selch is a cop? Yeah? He was literally going to drag Hermes and Meteion to the station. Edit: and contributed to an apocalypse by being unable to properly respond to a person in distress, though unlike an American cop he at least didn't shoot the person in trouble. OddObserver fucked around with this message at 15:21 on Feb 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 15:19
|
|
|
Only way to stop a bad guy with creation magic is a good guy with creation magicOddObserver posted:though unlike an American cop he at least didn't shoot the person in trouble. Well
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 15:21
|
|
|
defund the convocation of 14
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 15:25
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:though unlike an American cop he at least didn't shoot the person in trouble. Ok he shot my cat though. He was in the middle of doing something stupid because he’s a ginger cat, but he didn’t have to shoot my cat.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 15:41
|
|
|
kitten emergency posted:defund the convocation of 14 I think that's literally what Venat did, there were just a few extra steps to the plan.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 16:08
|
|
|
OddObserver posted:Yeah? He was literally going to drag Hermes and Meteion to the station. Technically I think he's a politician/police chief not a cop. Not that it matters much in this context.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 17:31
|
|
|
hopeandjoy posted:Ok he shot my cat though. He was in the middle of doing something stupid because he’s a ginger cat, but he didn’t have to shoot my cat. https://twitter.com/nocheamarga/status/1450645990373879808
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 17:49
|
|
|
PoorWeather posted:I don't use SA much, so I wasn't sure if the overall cultural shift the site has gone through might've led to the rules changing, too. Well, nevertheless: these are so great, thank you. in some alternate universe they got basically the same game except hydaelyn got explicitly treated by the game as a clever mastermind you must ultimately but uneasily ally yourself with, who enacted this one-in-a-million plan because she believes she alone is worthy to guide this star, and emet-selch as purely a long-suffering hero who is justified because without him you never would have learned any of the stuff about amaurot you ultimately needed to triumph over meteion, complete with a musical sequence set to the game's main theme, and I would love to see their discourse. Unrelated: Themis in the post-credits teaser mentions that he's waiting for you because someone implied to be Azem foretold it, which he mentions again in the first quest (and maybe again towards the end?). have there been previous references to original blend Azem having any kind of foresight like that or is that new?
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 18:25
|
|
|
Is it a gender specific line? My initial impression of it was Venat just spilled the beans to him, because Themis says "as she fortold." If a male WoL has him say "as he fortold" then it's most definitely that case. Azem having any sort of foresight would be new, but there could be other time loop shenanigans or something.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 18:34
|
|
|
yep, it's "as he foretold" for a male WoL, same with all subsequent references to his friend using he. e: here it is from the first youtube version I could find with he. 1:00:44 if the timestamp doesn't work. Valentin fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Feb 12, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 18:43
|
|
|
Could be that Azem has some amount of foresight, like Mikoto, and we just haven't awoken that ability with our echo. Or they were trolling Themis and it happened to work out. Either way Themis sent a letter back to Azem about us, so lol.
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 18:59
|
|
|
Cleretic posted:And of course, the classic ff14forums.txt Twitter account is great to read through. Granted, the forum's biggest veins of stupid haven't been story focused in some time. I went looking for fun https://twitter.com/ff14forums_txt/status/1483892301445406735?t=rOqCHTlt7sLp0qE9Sr1Dzw&s=19
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 19:39
|
|
|
TheWorldsaStage posted:I went looking for fun 
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 20:02
|
|
|
TheWorldsaStage posted:I went looking for fun god drat it
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 20:42
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 13, 2024 03:24 |
|
|
holy smokes
|
|
#
?
Feb 12, 2022 21:08
|
|