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Oh huh, I didn't know they had a rankings thing. Looks like it's #3 in the US. That's pretty good then. And god knows Amazon has the money to throw around.
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Feb 12, 2022 15:58
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CuwiKhons posted:Oh huh, I didn't know they had a rankings thing. Looks like it's #3 in the US. That's pretty good then. And god knows Amazon has the money to throw around. Amazon's internal metrics used for renewal are opaque and highly specific though, they famously nearly exclusively care about whether a show is the first thing a new Prime account watches -- at least I've heard Connor Raitliff and Griffin Newman talk about this a lot (both actors on cancelled prime shows) and it was commonly discussed in the Wheel of Time thread. eke out fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Feb 12, 2022 |
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Feb 12, 2022 16:03
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Dexo posted:Yeah, they are pretty much gods  CuwiKhons posted:Yes. The Kickstarter made enough to fund the Briarwood arc and Amazon swooped in to fund a second season before the first one even aired. I'm hopeful a third season pickup comes before they really break season 2 (any hint on where production is at?), as to some degree you have Pike and Percy's stories happening this season... but it'd be nice to know how much real estate they have to tell the rest of the cast alongside the Chroma Conclave and Vecna arcs. eke out posted:Amazon's internal metrics used for renewal are opaque and highly specific though, they famously nearly exclusively care about whether a show is the first thing a new Prime account watches -- at least I've heard Connor Raitliff and Griffin Newman talk about this a lot (both actors on cancelled prime shows) and it was commonly discussed in the Wheel of Time thread.
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Feb 12, 2022 16:39
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CuwiKhons posted:Yeah like Rougey said, Pike was leaning a little too hard into the murderhobo nature of D&D and Matt actually had consequences for that since she worships a good deity. I'm guessing that in this case, the fact that she's been roaming around with VM who have explicitly not been doing good and mostly don't care to has been giving her a spotty connection at best to Sarenrae. how so, I never watched the streams
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Feb 12, 2022 16:44
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Paracaidas posted:I've long wondered how Twitch plays into this from Amazon,'s perspective, given CR's massive presence on the site. Yeah, some of the rules for smaller shows may well not apply when there's major cross-platform synergy for them.
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Feb 12, 2022 16:45
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Alan Smithee posted:how so, I never watched the streams
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Feb 12, 2022 16:58
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Paracaidas posted:Around the same time that Keyleth broiled the Duergar (to "sleep"), Pike slits the throat of a guard they'd knocked unconscious during a stealthy battle so that he wouldn't wake up and alert others. Since he posed no immediate threat, it wasn't a Good action and Matt made clear her god was cranky and also the blindspot pilot got picked so Ashley needed an excuse to bounce in the future was he one of the briar aligned guards or like just doing his job percy turning the briar's stagecoach man into alex murphy was pretty brutal. I'm sure he was no angel but drat
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Feb 12, 2022 17:03
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Alan Smithee posted:how so, I never watched the streams It was really early in the streams but Pike got a little brutal and murder happy during the Underdark arc (which this show skipped for a variety of reasons). She was mostly just going along with the rest of the group, and particularly with Grog since he's her adopted brother, but the specific instance she was punished for was executing an unconscious duergar guard. As he'd been already knocked out, it was very unnecessary to kill him. In the next episode, Matt stated her holy symbol had a crack in it. Pike, to her credit, realized immediately that it was a warning to not keep doing poo poo like that and she straightened out her behavior and went to the temple to repent once they were back in Emon. I don't remember if Matt actually imposed a punishment or if it was just a warning, but if it was the latter, it worked. Alan Smithee posted:was he one of the briar aligned guards or like just doing his job It was a different arc, unrelated to the Briarwoods. He was a bad dude but he'd already been removed from the fight so killing him in cold blood was not approved by Sarenrae.
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Feb 12, 2022 17:05
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Dexo posted:He has been trying and failing at using his lightning magic the entire series. It just worked this time. Like, the whole thing is that I do know how this is all supposed to work mechanically, which is why I was confused here at why they were acting like he didn't have powerful options at his disposal when he did. Bards are the most OP class! (The main thing I was confused at was why he didn't just Hand float down the roof, when the Hand thing was the thing he's been doing the most in this series, so I was like "oh he must be out of spell slots," but then a minute later he just did it anyway like it was nothing. Did he just...forget earlier?) BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Feb 12, 2022 |
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Feb 12, 2022 17:05
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BrianWilly posted:Do you mean during the podcast? 'Cuz this definitely wasn't shown in the show. No in the show, Scanlan has been trying to use that lightning ability multiple times for various things, it's just never worked out for him. Also this is not D&D, the characters have specific signature abilities and things they can do, but not everything. It's scripted and not designed with perfect knowledge. If you can't suspend any disbelief that someone might not always make the most perfect optimal decision about some thing whoo boy is this not going to work for you.
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Feb 12, 2022 17:13
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Are there any arcs before the start of this show of note besides the underdark
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Feb 12, 2022 17:24
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Alan Smithee posted:Are there any arcs before the start of this show of note besides the underdark There's what's referred to as either the Vasselheim or Slayer's Take arc depending on who you ask, but it's... not really a coherent story arc? It wasn't intended to be. It was the party delivering an item to a new city they hadn't been to before, getting caught up in some shenanigans with a guild called the Slayer's Take, having a couple of very small standalone adventures (Grog got involved in a pit fighting thing, Keyleth went to visit another group of druids as part of her pilgrimage backstory, etc), then they went back to Emon and the Briarwood arc started. There's also of course stuff that happened before they started streaming the games, which includes the Krieg/Brimscythe story. But we don't have a ton of details on those and I don't know if they'll come up in the show.
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Feb 12, 2022 17:33
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Robobot posted:Maybe it’s just not that kind of a show, but that cliff hanger of Percy’s sister bleeding out on the floor made me think that maybe it was. What I'll say (and as above, we'll see if the series gets the space to flesh this out) is that the vibe is more "magic/god(s) has consequences and is inconsistent af" than it is ignoring death entirely. I know I try to ignore the first couple episodes but I think the show did a great job establishing that with Pike and Vax's little buddy at the end of the pilot. Of course, he didn't have the plot armor the main characters do. With that said, I think I mentioned earlier that the risk a bad roll and a couple dumb choices from death is one of the things that hooked me when starting the podcasts so I'm not sure I'd have connected as well if I started my journey with the show. Alan Smithee posted:Are there any arcs before the start of this show of note besides the underdark There are a few episodes between featuring some stunt casting cameos (Felicia Day! Wil Wheaton! Legend of Vox Machina vocal director Mary Elizabeth McGlynn! Older Matthews brother Will Friedle) that essentially serve as mini hunting quests but struck me more as a vehicle for bringing on guests. Brimscythe (eps 1 and 2) is actually pre-stream but on show, and calling the underdark "of note" is probably a bit generous. It introduces them to council members Allura and Kima and has one of my favorite NPCs (Clarota hive represent!), but little of importance occurs, which is one of the many reasons it was scrapped from the show.
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Feb 12, 2022 17:43
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eke out posted:Yeah, some of the rules for smaller shows may well not apply when there's major cross-platform synergy for them. yea tbh I'm not sure how this show doesn't at least get a couple more seasons, it's got a pre-existing audience, it's near entire major output is entirely contained in Amazon's dark empire, and the cast seem genuinely excited about turning their silly D&D game into a proper actiony cartoon. I can't imagine Amazon holds them to the same standards they do for smaller shows as long as they have a general 'yea this show's doing fine' baseline.
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Feb 12, 2022 19:37
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yeah and while it comes up a lot from people who've been cancelled, they may well just ignore the same downward trend from their more successful shows since almost by definition it's going to go down every season for practically every show. after all nothing's really requiring amazon to be honest about their opaque and probably much-more-complicated internal politics for what gets renewed. may just be a convenient metric to justify cancelling shows they want to (especially in relation to shows like the Tick, that had enthusiastic/loyal fanbases and good critical response, so some of their other metrics were probably good) eke out fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Feb 12, 2022 |
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Feb 12, 2022 20:10
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TV program executives always spin choice wheels on what they do with shows regardless of quality. I think Vox Machina will stay at least for 3 seasons unless ratings really drop. It would seem dumb for a TV show based on a livestream show from a website owned by Amazon to be dropped by Amazon. I dunno how much of a headache it would be if like Hulu or Paramount picked up Vox Machina.
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Feb 12, 2022 20:15
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I wouldn't worry about it. If they get canceled, Critrers will fund this show until the day they all die. It just might be on Netflix, or IMDB, or Apple, or whatever random dumb streaming service is around unless they make their own. It's not going away until we have 1000 episodes.
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Feb 12, 2022 23:31
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Can't blame anybody wanting nothing to do with the Underdark these days, especially if it's drow-related.
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Feb 13, 2022 01:22
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Dawgstar posted:Can't blame anybody wanting nothing to do with the Underdark these days, especially if it's drow-related. The Kraghammer Arc (the Underdark one) was likely skipped because it was during the time where Vox Machina just hosed around. There was also the deal with having to revisit that story when Orion was there (the 8th member who got kicked out for being a cheater with Main Character Syndrome). Everyone has moved on from Orion but it would probably give a weird feeling to see the whole story again again except for him. Briarwoods was a fresher start because it was the arc where poo poo Gets Real.
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Feb 13, 2022 01:45
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I feel like it’s a storyline they could just plunk back into the timeline anywhere they wanted, with the added bonus of having Kima be an established character we care about seeing rescued. There’s nothing about it that necessitates it taking place when it does, is there?
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Feb 13, 2022 02:38
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The Underdark set up a few tropes that repeated throughout the series like their love affair with taking lava damage or the already discussed Pike muderhobo/deity arc. It also established some of Scanlan's reoccurring gimmicks like poop scrying. The arc also helped cement their relationship with members of the Tal'Dorei Council that came into play during the arc following the Briarwoods. Its not impossible that you couldn't wedge it in somewhere post Briarwood's but it'd need a bit of plot revision to work and will always be a little awkward.
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Feb 13, 2022 02:52
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They could pull the Underdark arc off without Orion pretty well, I think. I believe it was mainly dwarves and mind flayers mostly. The bed making GBS threads shenanigans began there. Clarota would be cool to see. But they do have plenty to animate already, and the current arc leads into like 40 more seasons, so
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Feb 13, 2022 03:06
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Was floating cows part of the post Underdark cleanup? Would that get included? If yes then they should work it in ASAP.
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Feb 13, 2022 03:15
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The flying cows was after the Briarwoods escaped but before they left for Whitestone, if I recall. It was a stall because Taliesin was away and they couldn’t continue the storyline without him.
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Feb 13, 2022 03:18
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Also some of the biggest Underdark things were shown in their best kills montage. Although we'll have to have some other reason to call Scanlan Kingslayer.
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Feb 13, 2022 07:06
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They aren’t going to do the underdark because they’d have to pay Wizards of the Coast buttloads of money to use Mind Flayers and the Beholder which are their IP.
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Feb 13, 2022 13:50
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I am fairly confident that if CR asked, WOTC would fall over themselves to allow it for a symbolic fee. CR has had a major role in WOTC earning buttloads of cash in the recent years and LoVM is more or less a multi-million $$$ D&D commercial. They'd be dumb to do anything to spoil the relationship.
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Feb 13, 2022 14:36
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That's not how hasbro/WotC rolls lol
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Feb 13, 2022 15:38
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Dexo posted:That's not how hasbro/WotC rolls lol yeah they seem to have a productive relationship at dealing with the soft overlap in a way that makes everyone money, but i imagine that it's a very different story when it comes to officially licensing dnd material for amazon eke out fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Feb 13, 2022 |
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Feb 13, 2022 15:50
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They don't even have like any more freedom than you or I do. Their stream can use WotC stuff because they own the books and it's fair use to play and stream the game with the stuff you bought. Their official books such as Wildemount and the Call of the Netherdeep, can use WotC stuff because they are working with WotC on them specifically. It's pretty much the same rules that apply to anyone who releases anything in DM's guild only obviously working directly with Crawford and Perkins. Their unofficial book like Taldorei Reborn does not use any official WotC licensed creatures or names.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:05
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I also wouldn't be surprised if negotiating usage of some IP for some episodes wasn't too expensive in and of itself, but getting open ended licensing for future adaptations, etc, could be a lot trickier. And not doing so leaves them open to having to renegotiate under unfavorable conditions down the road. Avoiding licensed IP entirely, if possible, feels like a wise move from CR's point of view.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:08
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I don't think they'll ever backtrack to the Underdark arc for the simple reason that frankly, it was pretty boring. I mean hell, two of the funnier sequences have already been shown on screen - Keyleth horribly killing a duergar in lava by accident and Grog ripping a bullete's tongue out with his teeth. The only other thing of note was Grog going catatonic after a fight with an intellect devourer because his intelligence score was so low to begin with.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:10
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I’d rather they used that money to license certain Staind/Vanessa Carlton songs, anyways. Those feel more integral to the show, at this point.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:10
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Yeah, while CR has been way more than happy to cash a long string of DND Beyond sponsorship checks and officially integrate this and partner with that, in all the ways that matter CR has carefully built everything so they can pivot on a dime and stop being DND at any point. Which is both really smart of them and makes sense since they didn't even start their game/campaign setting in DND in the first place.
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Feb 13, 2022 16:20
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CuwiKhons posted:I don't think they'll ever backtrack to the Underdark arc for the simple reason that frankly, it was pretty boring. I mean hell, two of the funnier sequences have already been shown on screen - Keyleth horribly killing a duergar in lava by accident and Grog ripping a bullete's tongue out with his teeth. The only other thing of note was Grog going catatonic after a fight with an intellect devourer because his intelligence score was so low to begin with. Whoa, hey. Scanlan poo poo on a bed.
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Feb 13, 2022 19:13
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Yea we've seen the Underdark visual highlight already with just the hilarious 'shhh shhh...go to sleep' as a duergar gets thrown into lava, the rest can just be mentioned in casual conversation where they go 'hey Scanlan remember when you poo poo on that bed' or 'Grog's so dumb a fight with an intellect devourer left him in a coma right away!' or whatever. It was fun and had some good stuff but nothing really that needed. Pike's flirting with 'falling' was the biggest story beat and we've already seen they expanded on that as is by folding it into her general thing.
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Feb 13, 2022 19:24
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The scene in Scanbo where Scanlan walked into guards playing D&D makes me want Grog's One Shot to be adapted even if it's extremely unlikely to happen. For those who don't know, Travis did a one-shot where he roleplayed as Grog running
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Feb 13, 2022 19:42
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CuwiKhons posted:In the livestream, it played out a bit differently (not a lot differently, it was still a one man rampage that was incredible to watch) because Scanlan put on a master class of using all his bard spells to the fullest - Dimension Door, Stinking Cloud, Polymorph, etc. But the plan had always been to burn the house down and once inside and alone and under attack, Sam very abruptly realized he didn't have any fire spells. So he was frantically digging through his item list for anything that might help (while being jeered at by the rest of the cast for not planning as well as he thought) and uncovered an old potion that he had to have written down years ago and totally forgot about, a potion of fire breathing. If anyone has it to hand, could someone post a link to the CR stream for that solo adventure? I've only started following CR in the past year or so, never watched the first campaign, but it's neat to go back and compare the show with the stream.
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Feb 13, 2022 19:53
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:If anyone has it to hand, could someone post a link to the CR stream for that solo adventure? I've only started following CR in the past year or so, never watched the first campaign, but it's neat to go back and compare the show with the stream. Episode 31: Gunpowder Plot (Part 1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVSgD1iB1G0
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Feb 13, 2022 20:06
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:If anyone has it to hand, could someone post a link to the CR stream for that solo adventure? I've only started following CR in the past year or so, never watched the first campaign, but it's neat to go back and compare the show with the stream. A more direct comparison: https://youtu.be/tmAqpyX-YVQ
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