TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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Leperflesh: May 17, 2007

Ah, I see. Yup. I suppose like Chaosium they could avoid the proof-of-work platforms, but it's still a grift.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 21:11

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# ? May 27, 2024 12:00

Amp: Sep 10, 2010

Dexo posted:

https://www.polygon.com/22406490/magic-the-gathering-nft-tokens-hasbro-ceo-quarterly-earnings

Not particularly shocking.

They are going to announce it, like Ubisoft's attempts it's going to bomb spectacularly and then there are two paths that lie ahead, abandoning it quietly, or quadruple down like Ubisoft is currently trying to do pissing off their employees.

My guess is Hasbro will abandon it quietly as they make poo poo tons of money on like what NFT's essentially are, but in a online card game, not to mention the physical cards, but who knows.

This is from April of last year.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 22:15

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

AngryBooch posted:

to be clear, this person's evidence is an article from april of last year that cited a bog-standard CEO earnings call statement about how "yeah, we're totally looking into NFTs." The CEO that said that is also now deceased and has been replaced. Hasbro tried some NFT poo poo with Power Rangers and it didn't go well, and MTGO is already the real-money auction house digital version of the game, and good luck trying to get D&D into NFT nonsense, the very format of the game is antithetical to it.

# ? Feb 11, 2022 22:26

Thanlis: Mar 17, 2011

Leperflesh posted:

Where is that guy getting that WotC is "going to announce" that soon?

There�s a dude who wanted to run some kind of Magic organized play with NFTs and blockchains, and he got a �don�t" letter from WotC in the last couple of days. He thinks this means WotC is about to launch their own version.

His white paper is pretty funny.

I won�t be surprised if WotC does NFTs at some point, but I suspect today's discourse is a tempest in a teapot.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 01:32

Coolness Averted: Feb 20, 2007; oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

Thanlis posted:

There’s a dude who wanted to run some kind of Magic organized play with NFTs and blockchains, and he got a “don’t" letter from WotC in the last couple of days. He thinks this means WotC is about to launch their own version.

His white paper is pretty funny.

I won’t be surprised if WotC does NFTs at some point, but I suspect today's discourse is a tempest in a teapot.

That reads to me as the equivalent of getting a C&D for your Mickey Mouse NFTs and assuming it meant Disney is ready to hop into the NFT space.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 01:46

Subjunctive: Sep 12, 2006; ✨sparkle and shine✨

Thanlis posted:

His white paper is pretty funny.

quote:

The NFTs aren�t meant to establish ownership of the card, it will only be used to allow that card to be played in the mtgDAO format.

Oh, ok then.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 02:16

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

The solution to modern: more scarcity.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 02:16

Bottom Liner: Feb 15, 2006; a specific vein of lasagna

�The very format of D&D being antithetical� to the idea of selling digital versions of stuff is hilarious considering they sell digital copies of their books at full price to people that own the physical and even have DLC for races, classes, and rules.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 02:23

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

I cannot understand what this dude thought his sales pitch was that Apprentice or a similar program can't already do.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 02:35

Ultiville: Jan 14, 2005; The law protects no one unless it binds everyone, binds no one unless it protects everyone.

Mors Rattus posted:

I cannot understand what this dude thought his sales pitch was that Apprentice or a similar program can't already do.

Make him a lot of money, presumably.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 02:42

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

quote:

In order to be allowed to play a card in the mtgDAO format, players will need to show proof of ownership of an NFT for each card in their deck. In order to play the game, players will need to own both the NFT for their card and also the actual card used to play.

The white paper is basically "There's too much scarcity in the game, the solution to this is to force people to pay absolute scads of money to be able to use their physical cards in our format, this solution will either make it so less people use the rare cards or that I become very rich."
And since WOTC objected to him basically charging people for entry into his pyramid scheme.. i mean format, he's now doomsaying and trying to get people to divest from MTG entirely.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 02:49

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

Piell posted:

There is no actual use for NFTs and anyone who says there is is either a scammer or a mark or both

# ? Feb 12, 2022 04:41

The Chairman: Jun 30, 2003; But you forget, mon ami, that there is evil everywhere under the sun

Ultiville posted:

Make him a lot of money, presumably.

yeah, pretty much every DAO I�ve seen is a scheme to use someone else�s property to make money for themselves based on wild misunderstandings of trademarks or copyright or licensing, plus a naive belief that nothing a DAO does can get you in trouble because it�s decentralized

# ? Feb 12, 2022 15:36

Tibalt: May 14, 2017; What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee

People who heard about the centralized profits and socialized risk of a moral hazard, and tried to bootstrap their way there.

# ? Feb 12, 2022 15:42

Darwinism: Jan 6, 2008

Bitcoins and now NFTs have always been the purest form of scummy rent-seeking and it's depressing how many people have publicly thrown themselves behind a transparent scam just because they might not be the bigger fool yet, but it's really funny to see a guy try to pitch MtG only you buy your cards twice without any self awareness

# ? Feb 12, 2022 16:20

Nuns with Guns: Jul 23, 2010; It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Who wants some red meat?

https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/srhua3/martin_ericsson_defends_controversial_v5_chechnya/

quote:

Martin Ericsson, former Lead Storyteller of White Wolf and co-creator of Vampire: The Masquerade's 5th Edition (V5) has recently been interviewed by the 25 Years of Vampire: The Masquerade (25VTM) Podcast. The majority of the interview deals with Ericsson's work in Live Action Roleplay (LARP), how his personal connections within Paradox Interactive (PDX) sponsored his desire to takeover White Wolf's World of Darkness IP, how he created many of the systems and themes within V5 (Hunger dice, Predator Types, Thin-bloods, and the Gehenna War), and mentions his current work on Sharkmob's Blood Hunt V5 battle royale video game at 1:06:30. The last hour of the interview however delves into very serious subject matter that leaves Ericsson emotional raw and vulnerable. It can be difficult to listen to at times, as he breaks down while attempting to wrestle with the many troubles that plagued his tenure at the top of White Wolf.

V5, its creators, and their collaborators at Onyx Path have been embroiled in several controversies since the the early days of the game's beta testing and launch. V5's authors have been accused of pandering to Nazis, "doxxing" their critics to fascists, and ignoring predators and racists on their team. None of that is discussed in the interview with Ericsson, but at the 1:57:25 time stamp, the interview takes a 1 hour dive into the controversial Abrek Blight chapter that was removed from V5's Camarilla book. While Ericsson seems circumspect at first when the topic is brought up and references PDX/White Wolf's apology, he pivots to frame the issue as one of PDX being unwilling to back his "pitch" to "talk back to dictators" by the 02:26:49 mark because PDX were "scared as poo poo." Ericsson frames PDX's apology as an apology to Chechnya's dictator Ramzan Kadyrov, reading it as "sorry we pissed on you Ramzan" at the 02:29:00 mark. While Ericsson admits that the failure of the chapter was a failure of the words on the page and not a failure of reading comprehension on the part of V5's audience, he also says that it is "absolutely verboten" (forbidden) to talk about "systems of oppression" in left leaning gaming spaces. By the 02:37:00 time stamp, Ericsson becomes emotional describing a LARP where he and others played a group of LGBTQ+ friends during the height of the HIV/AIDS epidemic. He brings up this roleplay to make the point that RPGs can be used to tackle real world problems and as a well meaning "homage". The only limitation to such roleplay according to Ericsson being "as long as we don't actively try to misunderstand the intent" of role players such as Ericsson.

At 02:42:24 he claims that the Abrek Blight chapter made a difference in the real world and touched upon the "real Jihad" because it ended up "messing with" Chechnya dictator Ramzan Kadyrov. He regrets at 02:43:01 that it wasn't done in a way where "we were all on board with that". Instead he claims that two groups or "revolutionary factions" aligned to "destroy" him on the left and right. He goes on to say that his enemies were therefore making common cause with the "biggest active systematic killers of homosexual men" whom he saw himself as opposing with this chapter in the V5 Camarilla book. Ericsson becomes very emotional when speaking about this experience, but quickly regains his composure. The hosts of the 25VTM podcasts put forth the possibility at 02:45:00 that the Abrek Blight Chapter temporarily halted the persecution and torture of LGBTQ+ people in Chechnya. The hosts tell Ericsson that he "did good". Ericsson is at first skeptical of this direct causal link but seems more open to the possibility as the interview progresses towards its conclusion. Ericsson says at 02:49:19, that there was a short lived direction of the brand "actively sort of plotting against" Ramzan Kadyrov, and he was frustrated when he reached out to "confirmed radicals" among the old White Wolf staff who refused to openly support him against the absolute ruler of Chechnya. He does not identify who he contacted, but he does name drop current PDX Brand Creative Lead and former White Wolf staffer Justin Achilli repeatedly during the interview. Ericsson also strongly implies throughout the interview that Justin Achilli, Karim Muammar, and others at PDX are still following Ericsson's long term strategy and metaplot for V5. From 02:50:26 to 02:55:40 Ericsson talks a great deal about how RPG spaces have internalized the critiques of the "moral majority" (the anti-RPG panic of the 1980s and 1990s) and how there is no scientific proof that playing an evil character is damaging. He ends this analysis by saying that playing a Nazi does not turn you into a Nazi. Around the end of the interview at 03:01:40, the hosts admit their trepidation at having Ericsson on the podcast but say their opinions about him have been changed. The hosts also credit Ericsson's frequent collaborator, Matthew Dawkins, for encouraging them to invite Ericsson on to the show. The 25VTM podcast concludes with asking the audience to contact them with respectful feedback.

Seriously though, gently caress this guy and I hope the door did hit him on the way out.

Nuns with Guns fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Feb 13, 2022

# ? Feb 13, 2022 18:03

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

Nuns with Guns posted:

The hosts of the 25VTM podcasts put forth the possibility at 02:45:00 that the Abrek Blight Chapter temporarily halted the persecution and torture of LGBTQ+ people in Chechnya.

lmao, yes a few pages in a lore chapter written for a goth roleplaying game absolutely stopped discrimination in Chechnya. Ericsson is a dingdong and the podcast hosts sound like twits too if they unironically brought that idea up during the interview.

# ? Feb 13, 2022 18:51

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

If memory serves he in fact tried to use the absurdity of the book to deflect the legitimate press reporting on the homosexual purges in Chechnya.

# ? Feb 13, 2022 19:19

Midjack: Dec 24, 2007

Kurieg posted:

If memory serves he in fact tried to use the absurdity of the book to deflect the legitimate press reporting on the homosexual purges in Chechnya.

That's even more tragicomic.

# ? Feb 13, 2022 19:31

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

Kurieg posted:

If memory serves he in fact tried to use the absurdity of the book to deflect the legitimate press reporting on the homosexual purges in Chechnya.

And Rein*Hagen talked it up like it was the most cutting of satire until he suddenly claimed that Chechnyan death squads were after him for his commentary and said he went into hiding.

# ? Feb 13, 2022 19:35

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

Dawgstar posted:

And Rein*Hagen talked it up like it was the most cutting of satire until he suddenly claimed that Chechnyan death squads were after him for his commentary and said he went into hiding.

It was basically this

# ? Feb 13, 2022 20:23

TheDiceMustRoll: Jul 23, 2018

Dawgstar posted:

And Rein*Hagen talked it up like it was the most cutting of satire until he suddenly claimed that Chechnyan death squads were after him for his commentary and said he went into hiding.

must be nice to go on vacation and then sell it to people not as an act of privilege but rather a desperate, hitchcockian-style adventure trying to avoid death every turn.

# ? Feb 13, 2022 22:04

Coolness Averted: Feb 20, 2007; oh don't worry, I can't smell asparagus piss, it's in my DNA

GO HOGG WILD!
🐗🐗🐗🐗🐗

Nuns with Guns posted:

Who wants some red meat?

https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/srhua3/martin_ericsson_defends_controversial_v5_chechnya/

Seriously though, gently caress this guy and I hope the door did hit him on the way out.

lol I love that the nerds totally invited this weirdo on their podcast for sloppy kisses, and spend over an hour gushing about him but end on "We didn't know if we wanted to bring you on, but frankly you've won us over!"

# ? Feb 14, 2022 00:13

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Missing the good timeline where we're all playing Nightlife 6th Edition instead.

Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:52 on Feb 14, 2022

# ? Feb 14, 2022 00:36

Kai Tave: Jul 2, 2012; Fallen Rib

quote:

By the 02:37:00 time stamp, Ericsson becomes emotional describing a LARP where he and others played a group of LGBTQ+ friends during the height of the HIV/AIDS epidemic. He brings up this roleplay to make the point that RPGs can be used to tackle real world problems and as a well meaning "homage".
[...]
He ends this analysis by saying that playing a Nazi does not turn you into a Nazi.

Seems like there's some dissonance between "me and my friends pretending to be a group of queer people has a real-world impact" and "pretending to be a nazi doesn't have any real-world impact."

# ? Feb 14, 2022 07:15

Halloween Jack: Sep 12, 2003; I WILL CUT OFF BOTH OF MY ARMS BEFORE I VOTE FOR ANYONE THAT IS MORE POPULAR THAN BERNIE!!!!!

Vampire the Masquerade, Fifth Edition, the finest example of the experimental Nordic LARP tradition

# ? Feb 14, 2022 15:54

Admiral Joeslop: Jul 8, 2010

Kai Tave posted:

Seems like there's some dissonance between "me and my friends pretending to be a group of queer people has a real-world impact" and "pretending to be a nazi doesn't have any real-world impact."

Curb stomping for thee but not for me.

# ? Feb 14, 2022 15:59

Frozen Peach: Aug 25, 2004; garbage man from a garbage can

Phil Eklund is at it again with a long thread full of "definitions" for political viewpoints that are, in his opinion, undefined. So that's fun.

https://twitter.com/SeanFranco_/status/1493245292690485259

# ? Feb 14, 2022 20:34

LongDarkNight: Oct 25, 2010; It's like watching the collapse of Western civilization in fast forward.; Oven Wrangler

I skimmed it but let me tell you, the brain worms are full blown.

# ? Feb 14, 2022 21:21

potatocubed: Jul 26, 2012; *rathian noises*

I started reading it in detail and got to the second post/eighth image before my patience collapsed and I gave up.

He just... asserts so many wrong things -- obviously wrong things! -- as facts, then derides anyone who disagrees with him with 'why do you hate facts?'

It's infuriating.

# ? Feb 14, 2022 22:07

admanb: Jun 18, 2014

I'm very glad Cole Wehrle has made better Eklund games than Eklund so I don't have to FOMO over them.

# ? Feb 14, 2022 22:09

GreenMetalSun: Oct 12, 2012

I got one post in.

# ? Feb 14, 2022 22:23

Dawgstar: Jul 15, 2017

https://twitter.com/fordm/status/1493074224281534465

To quote the Bard, "LOL. LMAO."

# ? Feb 14, 2022 22:29

Vox Valentine: May 31, 2013; Solving all of life's problems through enhanced casting of Occam's Razor. Reward yourself with an imaginary chalice.

Who the gently caress is Ecklund again, the name is familiar but just barely.

# ? Feb 14, 2022 23:35

Magnetic North: Dec 15, 2008; Beware the Forest's Mushrooms

Hostile V posted:

Who the gently caress is Ecklund again, the name is familiar but just barely.

A very helpful goon :razz:

has put some information in the second OP of the Board Gaming thread.

# ? Feb 14, 2022 23:40

Xiahou Dun: Jul 16, 2009; We shall dive down through black abysses... and in that lair of the Deep Ones we shall dwell amidst wonder and glory forever.

Magnetic North posted:

A very helpful goon has put some information in the second OP of the Board Gaming thread.

I somehow missed all of this chucklefuck�s games without trying, but considering what I�ve skimmed and seeing he did a game called Neanderthal�. I�m pretty morbidly curious. Not enough to give him money, obviously, but I�d paw through a used copy to see how lovely his views on ancient hominids are.

You know he�s gonna have some Opinions.

# ? Feb 14, 2022 23:57

admanb: Jun 18, 2014

My favorite part of Eklund is that he spends a bunch of pages in Pax Renaissance talking about how the development of banking led Europe out of the dark ages and into enlightenment, and that's why his game about the renaissance involves playing banks. But then you actually play the game and realize that the enlightenment victory condition is nearly impossible compared to the feudal military or religious war victory conditions.

# ? Feb 15, 2022 00:26

Nuns with Guns: Jul 23, 2010; It's fine.
Don't worry about it.

Kai Tave posted:

Seems like there's some dissonance between "me and my friends pretending to be a group of queer people has a real-world impact" and "pretending to be a nazi doesn't have any real-world impact."

A true master of LARP knows when to enter a state where you manifest a play-pretend Stand hard enough to move mountains and when to keep it on the DL and the twitter leftists are holding us all back from this mass awakening or something.

Dawgstar posted:

https://twitter.com/fordm/status/1493074224281534465

To quote the Bard, "LOL. LMAO."

I don't understand at all how people keep trying to do these stunts with NFTs like they're some magic totem against IP laws, but I guess the answer is "they're all credulous morons or scammers" and I should spend brain power doing something else?

# ? Feb 15, 2022 06:02

gradenko_2000: Oct 5, 2010; HELL SERPENT; Lipstick Apathy

Nuns with Guns posted:

I don't understand at all how people keep trying to do these stunts with NFTs like they're some magic totem against IP laws, but I guess the answer is "they're all credulous morons or scammers" and I should spend brain power doing something else?

that's basically it, yes

# ? Feb 15, 2022 06:55

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# ? May 27, 2024 12:00

Ultiville: Jan 14, 2005; The law protects no one unless it binds everyone, binds no one unless it protects everyone.

I was bored enough to engage on Twitter today and someone spent a whole lot of time earnestly telling me NFTs would do all sorts of things that we could already have done without them, so there are definitely some people who think they're some kind of magic spell.

# ? Feb 15, 2022 06:58

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > TG as an Industry: A pendulum swing against the excesses of Rule 0 culture

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