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I've learned to be cautious around Model 3s. The lane centering doesn't work well with how roads are marked in this part of the world so you don't want to get too close to one.
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Feb 14, 2022 04:38
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dissss posted:I've learned to be cautious around Model 3s. The lane centering doesn't work well with how roads are marked in this part of the world so you don't want to get too close to one. Tesla's decision to make the autopilot stay in the center of the lane instead of next to the line on the driver's side is infuriating. Does the lane split from one to two lanes? The autopilot freaks out and randomly jerks the car to one of the lanes. Does the lane widen? Now your dumb tesa is in the middle of a giant lane.
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Feb 14, 2022 04:58
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This thread is really cool but until there's a decent EV with 200 mile range that isn't 50k I'm not sure that everyone just drives an ICE until it's literally untenable. Like I like a lot of these cars and have driven a ton of them but jesus the MSRP on all of them is insane, although I guess the MSRP of an ICE is equally insane. Just gonna drive my Outback until it explodes I guess.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:21
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PneumonicBook posted:This thread is really cool but until there's a decent EV with 200 mile range that isn't 50k I'm not sure that everyone just drives an ICE until it's literally untenable. Like I like a lot of these cars and have driven a ton of them but jesus the MSRP on all of them is insane, although I guess the MSRP of an ICE is equally insane. Just gonna drive my Outback until it explodes I guess. Automakers, like the real estate industry, have realized that it doesn't matter how much they charge for something, people will find a way to pay it, even if it means taking out loans that their grandchildren will still be paying.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:26
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Maybe the Bolt. That's still like 32k
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Feb 14, 2022 06:27
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Finger Prince posted:Automakers, like the real estate industry, have realized that it doesn't matter how much they charge for something, people will find a way to pay it, even if it means taking out loans that their grandchildren will still be paying. You're not wrong, like let me tell you about every dealer that's tried to sell me on a 72 month loan.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:29
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Wizard of the Deep posted:Nissan and Toyota had such a great early lead on EVs, and they both completely wasted it. An electric Rogue or FJ Cruiser would have made me the happiest driver on the road. Honda had the EV Plus in 1988. It even had AC/heat pump climate control. 80 to 110 miles of range. Toyota's had 2 models of EV RAV4's. The earliest one was over 20 years ago (1997 to 2003) and was decent (95 mile range). The latter one was a partnership with Tesla in 2012. There's one a few houses up the street from me.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:33
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When it comes to car prices, keep in mind that a huge number of people put down $45,000+ for extended cab F-150s that only ever get used as expensive, inconvenient family sedans. That's the context that EVs are getting priced in.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:34
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Roadie posted:When it comes to car prices, keep in mind that a huge number of people put down $45,000+ for extended cab F-150s that only ever get used as expensive, inconvenient family sedans. That's the context that EVs are getting priced in. There are not a lot of people that put down 45k on an F series. They take out 72 month loans.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:39
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PneumonicBook posted:There are not a lot of people that put down 45k on an F series. They take out 72 month loans. 72 months? Get on VW's level. 
Finger Prince fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 06:45
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PneumonicBook posted:There are not a lot of people that put down 45k on an F series. They take out 72 month loans. Good job being extremely pedantic in a way that doesn't actually change anything about the point I was trying to convey!
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Feb 14, 2022 06:46
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PneumonicBook posted:This thread is really cool but until there's a decent EV with 200 mile range that isn't 50k I'm not sure that everyone just drives an ICE until it's literally untenable. Like I like a lot of these cars and have driven a ton of them but jesus the MSRP on all of them is insane, although I guess the MSRP of an ICE is equally insane. Just gonna drive my Outback until it explodes I guess. They do make them...they just don't get sold in North America. Volkswagen killed the I.D.3 coming to North America. Same with Kia and Soul, right? The relaunch of Peugeot to the US is D.O.A. - no 208 or 2008 electrics. Don't even think about whatever Nissan March/Micra is getting made has a chance of going there. The new Fiat 500 electric didn't make it. Unless the US gov can force the automakers hand like they did in Europe, they'll keep trying to sell bigger, higher margin stuff.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:50
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Roadie posted:Good job being extremely pedantic in a way that doesn't actually change anything about the point I was trying to convey! The way you phased it initially read as "down-payment of $45k" to me too, and I would likewise want that statement backed up with some statistics. My impression is the buyers are doing long-term financing deals, too. VideoGameVet posted:Honda had the EV Plus in 1988. It even had AC/heat pump climate control. 80 to 110 miles of range. I more meant the Leafs and the Priuses, which are successful(ish) mass-market, smaller cars. If they'd have been aggressive about improving them, the whole industry would look very different right now.
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Feb 14, 2022 06:53
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Roadie posted:Good job being extremely pedantic in a way that doesn't actually change anything about the point I was trying to convey! You literally said a ton of people are dropping 45k on an f series which like, I don't believe is actually happening. Most people I know are financing 90% or more. Wizard of the Deep posted:The way you phased it initially read as "down-payment of $45k" to me too, and I would likewise want that statement backed up with some statistics. My impression is the buyers are doing long-term financing deals, too. Yea, this. Finger Prince posted:72 months? Get on VW's level. Lol 84 month financing no big deal! Jesus. PneumonicBook fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 07:15
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Should an EV be left plugged in, or have some other conditioning done if its going to be sitting for a couple months unused?
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Feb 14, 2022 07:26
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Tom Guycot posted:Should an EV be left plugged in, or have some other conditioning done if its going to be sitting for a couple months unused? Nah, that’s perfectly fine and the correct/recommended thing to do.
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Feb 14, 2022 07:33
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Wizard of the Deep posted:I more meant the Leafs and the Priuses, which are successful(ish) mass-market, smaller cars. If they'd have been aggressive about improving them, the whole industry would look very different right now. Tesla was founded in 2003 and first turned a profit in 2020. They are billions in the red over the life of the company from actually making and selling cars. Startups get to play by different rules and burn through capital at a rate that is simply not palatable for established, publicly traded companies. Tesla also gets valued like they’re Amazon or Apple and not a manufacturing company with razor thin margins, so they can basically raise capital whenever they want at whatever price they want. It was always going to be easier for a newcomer to do EVs than for existing manufacturers to disrupt their profitable lines of business and lose billions of dollars trying to build a market when they could just jump in later once someone else did the hard work.
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Feb 14, 2022 07:51
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PneumonicBook posted:This thread is really cool but until there's a decent EV with 200 mile range that isn't 50k I'm not sure that everyone just drives an ICE until it's literally untenable. Like I like a lot of these cars and have driven a ton of them but jesus the MSRP on all of them is insane, although I guess the MSRP of an ICE is equally insane. Just gonna drive my Outback until it explodes I guess. There are nice cars that already meet those criteria, even a Mustang Mach E is only $35k after incentives and that's got a 230 mile range. It's a pretty nice car to boot. Even the Polestar 2, a luxury car, has a 270 mile range and comes in at around $40k after incentives if you don't add on a bunch of bells and whistles
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Feb 14, 2022 09:18
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Buddy if they're only asking for 0-1.5% interest you're god drat right I'm going to take the longest term I can get and put the money I would have been spending into the market
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Feb 14, 2022 13:09
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My Niro was 43k and is EPA rated for 239 miles.
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Feb 14, 2022 13:23
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Tiny Timbs posted:Buddy if they're only asking for 0-1.5% interest you're god drat right I'm going to take the longest term I can get and put the money I would have been spending into the market Buddy if you can find an EV with 0-1.5% interest, that is an excellent idea and tell me where so I can buy one too.
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Feb 14, 2022 13:33
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Tiny Timbs posted:Buddy if they're only asking for 0-1.5% interest you're god drat right I'm going to take the longest term I can get and put the money I would have been spending into the market I know this is the oft repeated line but I guarantee you it’s a very small percentage who are actually doing this
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Feb 14, 2022 13:43
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Finger Prince posted:Buddy if you can find an EV with 0-1.5% interest, that is an excellent idea and tell me where so I can buy one too. I've got 1.85% on my MYP. Local credit union for the win!
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Feb 14, 2022 13:44
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GoutPatrol posted:They do make them...they just don't get sold in North America. Volkswagen killed the I.D.3 coming to North America. Same with Kia and Soul, right? The relaunch of Peugeot to the US is D.O.A. - no 208 or 2008 electrics. Don't even think about whatever Nissan March/Micra is getting made has a chance of going there. The new Fiat 500 electric didn't make it. Unless the US gov can force the automakers hand like they did in Europe, they'll keep trying to sell bigger, higher margin stuff. this is just kind of like, not a factually accurate post. 1) the idea that there are not EVs under $50k sold in the US: the ID.4 bases right near 40K USD and the Mach E is just a bit above that. The Kia Niro, Hyundai Kona, and Chevrolet Bolt all start under $50K some significantly under that, and there's tax credits available to further reduce price. 2) the idea that there so many EVs with 200 mile range for under equivalent of $50K US sold in other markets The early Soul EV had ~120 miles of range, the long ranged one is basically the same as the Niro - EU base prices are different by about 1200 euro. The new Fiat 500e is under 200 miles in range on WLTP, which is more generous than EPA ratings. The Zoe is about 130 miles of range. The e-up! is even less, as is the Honda E. The PSA twins are right around 200 miles on WLTP so sure, maybe that's a reasonable option that isn't available in the US. Good luck selling a B segment car here, though. Gas B segment cars died all by themselves already.
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Feb 14, 2022 14:02
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Finger Prince posted:Buddy if you can find an EV with 0-1.5% interest, that is an excellent idea and tell me where so I can buy one too. I got my Polestar 2 for 0%/60 months but that program ended with the new year so now it's 0.99%. Literally Lewis Hamilton posted:I know this is the oft repeated line but I guarantee you it’s a very small percentage who are actually doing this Oh well, I guess
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Feb 14, 2022 14:04
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DCU (Digital Federal Credit Union) is a pretty popular one with 1.24% for fuel efficient vehicles like EVs and most hybrids.
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Feb 14, 2022 14:06
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Tesla was founded in 2003 and first turned a profit in 2020. They are billions in the red over the life of the company from actually making and selling cars. Startups get to play by different rules and burn through capital at a rate that is simply not palatable for established, publicly traded companies. Tesla also gets valued like they’re Amazon or Apple and not a manufacturing company with razor thin margins, so they can basically raise capital whenever they want at whatever price they want. I realize and agree with all those points. It was more a lament about the innovator's dilemma and inertia and missing a good Nissan I had in college. Finger Prince posted:Buddy if you can find an EV with 0-1.5% interest, that is an excellent idea and tell me where so I can buy one too. Like darnon said, I successfully got a 1.24% interest rate with DCU after carving off a portion of my paycheck for direct deposit for my MYLR. The advertised rate is 1.99%, -.5% for direct deposit, -.25% for an efficient vehicle. Half the reason I jumped on the Y when I did was because money is still very cheap. I wanted to take advantage of that in case we end up in a period of significant inflation.
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Feb 14, 2022 14:24
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Tom Guycot posted:Should an EV be left plugged in, or have some other conditioning done if its going to be sitting for a couple months unused? Yeah, do that, unless you have an older LEAF, which won't give you the option to ever stop, and just sits there at 100%, which we have been told is pretty hard on the battery. But everything else, yeah, dial it down to like 80-90% unless you're about to take a trip, and enjoy your fully charged car every morning!
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Feb 14, 2022 14:24
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Chances are high we're about to buy an EV6. Since they apparently don't come with an L1 charger (wtf?) Any recommendations for one? I saw the Mustart mentioned earlier in thread, but it appears to be 240 only. I'd prefer one that could do 120 and 240. Also, are any of the L2 EVSEs better or worse? I've got a 40 amp circuit in the garage with a 14-50 outlet ready for it.
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Feb 14, 2022 15:17
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The only thing I can offer is that you’ll be limited to a 32 amp charger on a 40 amp circuit.
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Feb 14, 2022 15:31
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What even is the current home state of the art? I have a 2014 Leaf and have a Chargepoint L2 charger hardwired in. I figured that was about max for home use without going for something ridiculous. It has been fine for the Leaf, but now I'm looking at getting rid of our other car for a EV6 or Ioniq 5 in the next yearish. Is there anything standard better than just continuing to use my L2 charger for that?
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Feb 14, 2022 15:51
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L2 charging speeds are pretty much all over the place, ranging from 3kW all the way up to 22kW, and the EV6 tops out at 11kW. If your current charger uses 32A (6kW) that's a little bit more than half the max charging speed of the EV6 but it's still quick enough to charge overnight.
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Feb 14, 2022 16:02
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Nfcknblvbl posted:L2 charging speeds are pretty much all over the place, ranging from 3kW all the way up to 22kW, and the EV6 tops out at 11kW. If your current charger uses 32A (6kW) that's a little bit more than half the max charging speed of the EV6 but it's still quick enough to charge overnight. To add my 2c, I have a ~3.5kW charger and it's is quick enough to charge my Niro "overnight" for my needs. ~12 hours for 20%-80% and if I need anything faster I can just run to a DC charger for a short time. I've found this to be pretty accurate: https://www.homechargingstations.com/ev-charging-time-calculator/ Slimy Hog fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 16:15
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Seems like 50A with a 14-50 is the typical recommendation. Gives you up to 9.6kW, can fit whatever non hardwired EVSE you want, easy to remove/replace. Most seem to max out around 11kW which is a 60A that I believe has to be hardwired?
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Feb 14, 2022 16:34
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I stand corrected! I guess I need to move to the land of cheap credit.
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Feb 14, 2022 17:06
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Right, hence the “50” in the 14-50 outlet. When most evs top out at 11kW AC charging that’s good enough (9.6 kW). The advantage being if you want to change the charger you can just unplug it and get a new one. For 60a or higher, it needs to be hardwired which in and of itself is not a huge deal but it’s less convenient and not really buying you anything. If you have an EV with higher charging potential (taycan with upgraded onboard charger is like 20 kW?) then you need the bigger breaker, higher gauge wires, and L2 charger to support it. TLDR 14-50 on a 50a breaker for a 42a charger is pretty good price/performace for most applications. Edit: really depends on the vehicle. If you have a taycan or lightning that can do 19kW and no existing outlet might as well do a 100a circuit, 80a charger, hardwired, to max it out. Infinotize fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 17:10
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Citizen Z posted:Chances are high we're about to buy an EV6. Since they apparently don't come with an L1 charger (wtf?) Any recommendations for one? Lectron is sold on Amazon and seems fine. Clipper Creek makes great stuff but is more expensive. In general I personally feel like I'm going to start recommending Lectron. Maybe the rest of the thread could chime in so we have standard advice on this. E: I should note I've never used a Lectron portable EVSE because all four EV's I've owned came with one  It's likely you're going to have to take one for the team here and report back with how it's going. cruft fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 17:10
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Tom Guycot posted:Should an EV be left plugged in, or have some other conditioning done if its going to be sitting for a couple months unused? Always be plugged in whenever it’s able/convenient. No exceptions to this that I’m aware of; If it’s an EV, plug it in when you’re not using it and it’ll take care of itself. Orty posted:Seems like 50A with a 14-50 is the typical recommendation. Gives you up to 9.6kW, can fit whatever non hardwired EVSE you want, easy to remove/replace. Most seem to max out around 11kW which is a 60A that I believe has to be hardwired? Anything more than a 14-50 (40a continuous) should be hardwired, ya. Even if code says you can use a receptacle, that’s getting into the realm of “just-because you can…”
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Feb 14, 2022 17:14
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IMO if it's outdoors you should hardwire a L2 charger.MrYenko posted:Always be plugged in whenever it’s able/convenient. No exceptions to this that I’m aware of The 2017 Nissan LEAF is an exception. E: and the Chevrolet bolt without the updated firmware or new battery. cruft fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 17:16
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MrYenko posted:Always be plugged in whenever it’s able/convenient. No exceptions to this that I’m aware of; If it’s an EV, plug it in when you’re not using it and it’ll take care of itself. What is the rationale for this? Just curious. (thanks!)
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Feb 14, 2022 17:34
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